Michigan State

[Starport Seven-Five]

I hope so too, but the more I see this thought, the more hollow it rings. Living like this, year in and year out, starting with lockdown drills in pre-school and the omnipresent danger of shootings in virtually any public place, must be doing immense damage to our kids' sense of safety and well-being. I can't imagine that kind of chronic anxiety and stress are laying the foundation for healthy adults, much less effective future leaders. And particularly post-Parkland, it seems like the determination to change the world for the better is giving way to a bleak acceptance that this cannot be changed in a lot of young people... I don't feel like that bodes well at all for the kind of leaders this generation will turn out to be.

The only hope I have is the older generation is becoming less influential. Millenials overtook boomers as the largest population in 2019 and now we just have to start voting.
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-ta...-baby-boomers-as-americas-largest-generation/

 

[DLgal]

I hope so too, but the more I see this thought, the more hollow it rings. Living like this, year in and year out, starting with lockdown drills in pre-school and the omnipresent danger of shootings in virtually any public place, must be doing immense damage to our kids' sense of safety and well-being. I can't imagine that kind of chronic anxiety and stress are laying the foundation for healthy adults, much less effective future leaders. And particularly post-Parkland, it seems like the determination to change the world for the better is giving way to a bleak acceptance that this cannot be changed in a lot of young people... I don't feel like that bodes well at all for the kind of leaders this generation will turn out to be.

The problem is that they won't be given a chance until they are well past middle age, because for some reason, lawmakers like to just sit in power until they are ready for the nursing home (and some stay even beyond that point).

We need an upper age limit in Congress, stat. Full retirement age would be a great place to start.

 

[GreatLakes]

The problem is that they won't be given a chance until they are well past middle age, because for some reason, lawmakers like to just sit in power until they are ready for the nursing home (and some stay even beyond that point).

We need an upper age limit in Congress, stat. Full retirement age would be a great place to start.

The only way congressmen can stick around forever is if the voters keep voting them in. Millennials and Gen X have a combined majority now. The only way Boomers have an inflated electorate influence is if those generations don't vote.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

The only way congressmen can stick around forever is if the voters keep voting them in. Millennials and Gen X have a combined majority now. The only way Boomers have an inflated electorate influence is if those generations don't vote.

I think it's a bit more complicated than that because of how terms are and where they fall when talking about Millennials and Gen Z (although middle Millennial and above as well as Gen X have less of that being a problem if presently speaking). But I agree with you young people do have to be engaged, get engaged and vote. My husband and I hear it every so often when we go voting "oh it's so nice to see young people out voting" We're in our 30s now but hey I'll take the compliment.

To give an example about terms my first presidential election was in 2008 when I was 20. The election before that would have been 2004 and I was not old enough to vote in it and the one after that would have been 2012.

You're right young people have to vote and they do vote but also what is going on around them heavily influences that. Without getting too far into it last August's primary for my state had a huge voter registration increase due to the topic that was going to be on it, an estimated 70% of new registrations were from women.

Going back to the term thing because the elections don't all sync up and don't all have the same term limits it is still possible for people to vote and yet it not end up working out on one elected position or another.

 

[GreatLakes]

I think it's a bit more complicated than that because of how terms are and where they fall when talking about Millennials and Gen Z (although middle Millennial and above as well as Gen X have less of that being a problem if presently speaking). But I agree with you young people do have to be engaged, get engaged and vote. My husband and I hear it every so often when we go voting "oh it's so nice to see young people out voting" We're in our 30s now but hey I'll take the compliment.

To give an example about terms my first presidential election was in 2008 when I was 20. The election before that would have been 2004 and I was not old enough to vote in it and the one after that would have been 2012.

You're right young people have to vote and they do vote but also what is going on around them heavily influences that. Without getting too far into it last August's primary for my state had a huge voter registration increase due to the topic that was going to be on it, an estimated 70% of new registrations were from women.

Going back to the term thing because the elections don't all sync up and don't all have the same term limits it is still possible for people to vote and yet it not end up working out on one elected position or another.

I'm not sure what you are getting at here. At this point every Senator, Representative, and President has faced an election with Gen X and Millennials having a majority. Every single one. You seem focused on the Presidential elections but they are only 1/8 of the elections at best assuming twice yearly election cycles. Even less when you factor in special elections. People should be informed and vote even with there isn't a President on the ballot.

If we (I'm right at the intersection of Gen X and Y) didn't want a long term congressman to have another term we could have stopped it and the Boomers, who are often credited/blamed for keeping these people in, couldn't do a thing to stop us from ousting them.

 

[DLgal]

I'm not sure what you are getting at here. At this point every Senator, Representative, and President has faced an election with Gen X and Millennials having a majority. Every single one. You seem focused on the Presidential elections but they are only 1/8 of the elections at best assuming twice yearly election cycles. Even less when you factor in special elections. People should be informed and vote even with there isn't a President on the ballot.

If we (I'm right at the intersection of Gen X and Y) didn't want a long term congressman to have another term we could have stopped it and the Boomers, who are often credited/blamed for keeping these people in, couldn't do a thing to stop us from ousting them.

It is very difficult to win an election against an established, career politician. They have the money and influence to keep their seat. It's not a fair fight. And you can't ignore gerrymandering and the blatant attempts at voter suppression.

Age limits would force people out who are NO LONGER motivated to make decisions that will affect younger generations. Too many older lawmakers are only looking out for their own self interests. We need to be making laws for the majority of constituents, and 80 year olds are not in touch with what younger and middle aged people need/want.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I'm not sure what you are getting at here. At this point every Senator, Representative, and President has faced an election with Gen X and Millennials having a majority. Every single one. You seem focused on the Presidential elections but they are only 1/8 of the elections at best assuming twice yearly election cycles. Even less when you factor in special elections. People should be informed and vote even with there isn't a President on the ballot.

If we (I'm right at the intersection of Gen X and Y) didn't want a long term congressman to have another term we could have stopped it and the Boomers, who are often credited/blamed for keeping these people in, couldn't do a thing to stop us from ousting them.

I just used the presidential ones as an example because it's more clear cut. They are however very influential in terms of where the country goes.

But in any case you have Governor, AG, Treasury, Insurance Commissioner, your state rep for your district, school board, in my area also the county's board of commission and so. All of those and more that I can't think of don't always follow the same election cycle and at least in recent enough years this has become more and more important. Technically speaking my county's board of commissioners is a non-party position..except there's been a very recent push to make it so.

Things like your board of education may have been important but was it that big of a deal until during the pandemic? It certainly made people really pay attention because it wasn't as much about budgeting and school bonds so much as many other things.

In my state state law requires every 10 years (aligning with the census) districts to be redrawn for representation. Well this most recent census there's too much population in my area and so they had to by state law redraw the lines. Now that was a heavy political thing and it ended up going to court over the proposed lines due to gerrymandering claims BUT the person who was going to lose people was up for re-election and this was a huge big deal given the current events.

It's just a lot about the climate at the time, the age at which you are able to vote, who is in the running for whatever you're voting on (and colleen is absolutely right about a lot of what she mentioned), and the election cycles.

We can say to the youth go out and vote and that's what they should be doing but sometimes they are either not old enough to vote in an election that could have an individual who will still have influence over things or the causes are there at that particular time or the position is up for re-election and so on.

 

[Colleen27]

The only hope I have is the older generation is becoming less influential. Millenials overtook boomers as the largest population in 2019 and now we just have to start voting.
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-ta...-baby-boomers-as-americas-largest-generation/

View attachment 740189

The problem is that they won't be given a chance until they are well past middle age, because for some reason, lawmakers like to just sit in power until they are ready for the nursing home (and some stay even beyond that point).

We need an upper age limit in Congress, stat. Full retirement age would be a great place to start.

I'm not thinking so much in terms of numbers and older generations stepping aside to make room for younger leaders. I'm thinking in a Maslow's Hierarchy sense. What will a generation that has grown up with the understanding that there's no such thing as safety look like as adults? We're already seeing signs of an emergent mental health crisis among younger people, with anxiety, depression, and other environmentally-influenced conditions skyrocketing. It wouldn't be surprising if the chronic stress this generation is experiencing leads to a sort of "brain drain" in public service, where the effort of coping and surviving imposes such a burden that adding activism and leadership is a bridge too far, emotionally and mentally.

 

[RoseBen009]

Fellow Michigander here - and I totally relate to what you've written. I'm saddened and sickened by it all. I always am sure to tell my kids I love them when I drop them off at school, and I hate that I have that worry in the back of my mind that something terrible could happen.

 

[Dakota731]

And this tragedy could’ve been prevented. This criminal had a gun violation in 2019 that was punishable by five years in prison, but the prosecutor only gave him probation.
You can have thousands of laws on the books, but if they aren’t enforced then they are totally worthless.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

And this tragedy could’ve been prevented. This criminal had a gun violation in 2019 that was punishable by five years in prison, but the prosecutor only gave him probation.
You can have thousands of laws on the books, but if they aren’t enforced then they are totally worthless.

I actually read about that a couple days ago. I think it's important to give a bit more information about that.

The prosecutor didn't "only give him" probation. He plead guilty to a misdemeanor that led to a probation and inability to own/possess, etc during the duration of the probation (which ended in 2021).

"He was charged with a violation of concealed carry law and possessing a loaded weapon in a vehicle. He pleaded guilty to the weapon-in-a-vehicle charge, while prosecutors dropped the second count" Whether the search (brought on by the interaction he had with a police officer outside of a building) was legal or not was brought up by his defense attorney.

In addition it was stated in the article I read they would not have recommended jail time or prison sentence even if a jury convicted of the original charge because "The sentencing guideline score would have been the same if he had been convicted of either the original charge (Carrying a Concealed Weapon) or the offense for which he was convicted (carrying a firearm in a vehicle)."

Also important to what you said about the years in prison this was also addressed in the article I read "Any offender who is convicted and facing sentencing in Michigan is provided a Sentence Guideline (SGL) score during their pre-sentence investigation. The SGL score provides the court with guidance for a sentence recommendation. It is a routine matter in nearly all criminal cases that the recommended sentence is not the same as the legal maximum,"

Prevented is also something we have to take care to say.

 

[Dakota731]

I actually read about that a couple days ago. I think it's important to give a bit more information about that.

The prosecutor didn't "only give him" probation. He plead guilty to a misdemeanor that led to a probation and inability to own/possess, etc during the duration of the probation (which ended in 2021).

"He was charged with a violation of concealed carry law and possessing a loaded weapon in a vehicle. He pleaded guilty to the weapon-in-a-vehicle charge, while prosecutors dropped the second count" Whether the search (brought on by the interaction he had with a police officer outside of a building) was legal or not was brought up by his defense attorney.

In addition it was stated in the article I read they would not have recommended jail time or prison sentence even if a jury convicted of the original charge because "The sentencing guideline score would have been the same if he had been convicted of either the original charge (Carrying a Concealed Weapon) or the offense for which he was convicted (carrying a firearm in a vehicle)."

Prevented is also something we have to take care to say.

In 2021, the prosecutor in question, Carol Siemon established a policy to limit the use of felony firearm charges, which are supplemental charges added onto other felonies, because she said such charges disproportionately affected Black residents.

It makes no sense to me to be continually seeking new gun legislation if we don’t prosecute violators to the fullest extent of the law. It’s very simple and tragic that these people will still be alive if this man had gone to jail when he committed his first gun felony.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

In 2021, the prosecutor in question, Carol Siemon established a policy to limit the use of felony firearm charges, which are supplemental charges added onto other felonies, because she said such charges disproportionately affected Black residents.

It makes no sense to me to be continually seeking new gun legislation if we don’t prosecute violators to the fullest extent of the law. It’s very simple and tragic that these people will still be alive if this man had gone to jail when he committed his first gun felony.

Is this related to your prior comment? Because I was discussing what you said and with facts to refute that. We're talking about his 2019 charge which was done before whatever policy limit you're discussing. His probation started in late 2019.

I'm not going to get into a debate over a moving goal post here. I'm just trying to provide more into the soundbite you originally posted for those that might be interested in it. It seemed important to me at least given the headline I read to delve into it more what they were saying.

 

[Starport Seven-Five]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1646581075844509696

None of these items would really have prevented this shooting but it is a good step forward. The bar is so low that anything more than "thoughts and prayers" seems like a win.

 

[RamblingMad]

Nothing is going to change here. The US Constitution would have to change given the current US Supreme Court.

The best you can hope for is aggressive taxing on firearms like other Vice taxes. But their lobby is really powerful, so I doubt it.

 

[disney4us2002]

I disagree. This isn't about the USSC. We need judges and prosecutors who are actually hard on crime and stop giving probation and slapping the hands of violators. Treatment is not the answer.