Michael Schiavo's interview on Dateline last night

[JennyMominRI]

We should be debating "how" we allow people to die. Convicted criminals are kill more mercifully, meaning quickly and relatively painlessly, than this woman was. If we, as a country, are going to "allow" people to die then we, as a country, should have the spheres to do it in a humane way. A quick shot of whatever would have been more merciful than allowing her to linger on as she dehydrated. How come neither side is bringing up that issue?

While I agree we need a better way,TS was in no pain when she died,and went peacefully... I hav eno qualms about having my own feeding tube removed,or refusing to put one in,if I get to the point where I'mdying and can't feed myself...And believe me,with what I have,I have seriously looked into end of life issues

 

[JennyMominRI]

I am sorry, but you don't really know what you would do until you have to live it, and God forbid, you ever do. You may do exactly what the Shindler's did, if your child did what Terri did on those video's.

You may say now, while your children are healthy, you would not do the same thing, but it you are faced with losing your child, even it if is just the shell of your child, I think you would grasp at anything. DO anything, move mountains to save her, if you truly believed she was still there. Like the Shindlers did.

In court,durin one of the hearing. I believe it was one of the hearing in the malpractice suite,The Schiavos stated that they believed Terri was PVS..SO at one point they believed she was,at a later point,they changed their minds.
They also made statements in court that even had Terri made her wished known in writing,they would have disregarded them and kept her alive.

 

[JennyMominRI]

Yes, VSL. 15 years.


The video in question, that was shown by the Schindlers' as evidence that Terri was responsive, is UNconvincing. We, as humans, are programmed to "read" facial movements as "expressions" -- this was a crucial survival skill, and enabled us to quickly determine if someone was happy, sad, angry, or threatening. So, we "read" into that video that Terri was 'looking at' people/things, and was 'smiling', which was probably nothing more than involuntary twitches.


. . .

She aldo made those same expressions and movements to the wall,to and empty room and many other times..It's not at all uncommon for PVS patients to exibit these things. Of course the videotape cut out all the sections where she responds to a wall

 

[JennyMominRI]

I disagree - my Mom just passed away 2 months ago (today). After telling me many times (while watching Terri's case, and previously) that if she ever ended up like *that* she wanted me to "take her out in a field and shoot her" (her words, not mine) I chose for her, a DNR after the 3rd round of CPR.

There was nothing more I wanted then my Mom to be okay - but she wasnt okay. She wasnt going to BE okay - I gave her the greatest gift I could ever give her, and let her go *home* - To me, keeping someone hanging on for 15!!!! years, for your own selfish reasons, is just that - selfish.

And I also disagree that because they were young, they may have never talked about that. I talk about it - have for years, as did my mom - and watching the Terri case on TV, even my kids (14 & 10) see how asinine it is to have someone there, who is NOT really there.

I would not leave my kids, even though I am a mother, just like you - hooked up to machines for that long, ever. No way, no how. I feel your energy should be focused on THEM, what they need/want/deserve not how youre going to feel with that loss. And keeping 'em all hooked up is all about -you-.

And since it is the 2 month anniversary -

Cathryn,I'm so sorry about your Mom

 

[yeartolate]

She aldo made those same expressions and movements to the wall,to and empty room and many other times..It's not at all uncommon for PVS patients to exibit these things. Of course the videotape cut out all the sections where she responds to a wall

Although I wouldn't diagnose her from a videotape, I can say in my vast experience with these types of patients, her facial expressions were typical of many (if not most!) PVS patients I have seen.

No doubt that the tape was edited to show the "cream of the crop" and even the cream of the crop video looked typical for PVS.

I hope Micheal Shiavo follows up on his intention to form groups to educate folks on the need for living wills and advanced directives.

I hope the Schindlers can find some peace and closure, but sadly from an interview I saw yesterday it will probably never happen.

 

[JennyMominRI]

Although I wouldn't diagnose her from a videotape, I can say in my vast experience with these types of patients, her facial expressions were typical of many (if not most!) PVS patients I have seen.

No doubt that the tape was edited to show the "cream of the crop" and even the cream of the crop video looked typical for PVS.

I hope Micheal Shiavo follows up on his intention to form groups to educate folks on the need for living wills and advanced directives.

I hope the Schindlers can find some peace and closure, but sadly from an interview I saw yesterday it will probably never happen.

Oh yeah.I wouldn't try and diagnosis her from a tape eaither,like,ahem, certain people did.. I just don't think it's fair to cherry pick your footage like that and show it to the media..I would be HORRIFIED if someone put videotape of me looking like that allover the media

 

[yeartolate]

And I also disagree that because they were young, they may have never talked about that. I talk about it - have for years, as did my mom - and watching the Terri case on TV, even my kids (14 & 10) see how asinine it is to have someone there, who is NOT really there.

I agree, not too many years before her collapse Karen Ann Quinlan was front page news. I know as a high school and college student in that time frame her story provoked many discussions in class and out of class. Like Terri, her case spanned years, not months, so her situation was ongoing fodder for conversation for many years.

Just like one year later TS is still front and center, Karen Ann Quinlan had the same effect. I can only imagine what would have happened to Karan Ann and family if they had 24/7 news and widespread internet access like we do today.

 

[CathrynRose]

I would be HORRIFIED if someone put videotape of me looking like that allover the media

NOOOOOoooooo Kidding!!! I'd be downright *ticked* in the afterlife. At least lip-gloss me, or something!!

All joking aside - I agree 100%!

 

[AMcaptured]

Michael and his new wife were on the View this morning and I just don't get the guy, never mind his new wife. For the record, I don't think the parents should have written a book either. However, when asked by Meridith why he didn't just divorce Teri and let her parents take care of her, Michael said he made a vow to Teri for "in sickness and in health".....

I guess "forsaking all others as long as you both shall live" wasn't a vow he believed in. The idea that he invoked his wedding vows just didn't sit well with me. He could have said he felt obligated to her or that he cared what happened to her and I might have been ok with it. But don't bring up your wedding vows! JMO.

 

[JennyMominRI]

Michael and his new wife were on the View this morning and I just don't get the guy, never mind his new wife. For the record, I don't think the parents should have written a book either. However, when asked by Meridith why he didn't just divorce Teri and let her parents take care of her, Michael said he made a vow to Teri for "in sickness and in health".....

I guess "forsaking all others as long as you both shall live" wasn't a vow he believed in. The idea that he invoked his wedding vows just didn't sit well with me. He could have said he felt obligated to her or that he cared what happened to her and I might have been ok with it. But don't bring up your wedding vows! JMO.

Michael felt that Terri was a already gone..I agree,I think she was gone from the day her heart stopped beating 16 years ago.

 

[Deb in IA]

Although I wouldn't diagnose her from a videotape, I can say in my vast experience with these types of patients, her facial expressions were typical of many (if not most!) PVS patients I have seen.

Hey, I'm no Senator Frist. I'm not diagnosing either, but just trying to interpret what people are seeing in perhaps a different light.

And the diagnosis of PVS requires specific responses to a number of neurological tests -- much more than what the video shows.

 

[YourMajesty]

Have to agree with this statement. I don't think Michael had anything to do with the condition Terri was in (as her parents would have you believe) nor do I believe she relayed any kind of DNR or living will to Michael in her early 20's. I don't think we're getting the truth from either side. And I won't be buying either book.

Ditto for me...all this book stuff makes me think $$$ for both.

 

[bsnyder]

And in the absence of any written documentation, we must trust the statements made in the marriage relationship. For those of us who do believe that Terri made those statements, remember that they were made way BEFORE any malpractice settlement, and certainly before any infidelity . . .

Deb, according to Michael, the statements were made before the malpractice settlement, but we really have only his word for that. In this particular case, I tend to believe Michael, mainly because of his actions in the years immediately after Terri's collapse. By all accounts, even the Schindlers, his care of her was exemplary.

But I am very troubled by the slippery slope that I foresee - especially if public opinion from Terri's case is any guide. In this particular case, Michael Schiavo may very well have had his wife's best interests and wishes at heart. In other cases, that may not be true at all, for a spouse or children who don't want to be inconvenience by a loved one's long term illness, or who have a financial stake in what happens. I feel that we, as a society, should put a very high value on life, not just "quality of life". JMO.

 

[YourMajesty]

Michael and his new wife were on the View this morning and I just don't get the guy, never mind his new wife. For the record, I don't think the parents should have written a book either. However, when asked by Meridith why he didn't just divorce Teri and let her parents take care of her, Michael said he made a vow to Teri for "in sickness and in health".....

I guess "forsaking all others as long as you both shall live" wasn't a vow he believed in. The idea that he invoked his wedding vows just didn't sit well with me. He could have said he felt obligated to her or that he cared what happened to her and I might have been ok with it. But don't bring up your wedding vows! JMO.

This is a good point. Maybe they cut that out of their vows...you should have been in the interview to ask that question....

 

[Deb in IA]

Deb, according to Michael, the statements were made before the malpractice settlement, but we really have only his word for that. In this particular case, I tend to believe Michael, mainly because of his actions in the years immediately after Terri's collapse. By all accounts, even the Schindlers, his care of her was exemplary.

But I am very troubled by the slippery slope that I foresee - especially if public opinion from Terri's case is any guide. In this particular case, Michael Schiavo may very well have had his wife's best interests and wishes at heart. In other cases, that may not be true at all, for a spouse or children who don't want to be inconvenience by a loved one's long term illness, or who have a financial stake in what happens. I feel that we, as a society, should put a very high value on life, not just "quality of life". JMO.

And I agree too, bet. That, in a nutshell, is the whole troubling aspect of this whole case. Since there was no documentation, no eyewitnesses that this was Terri's express wishes, we have to trust that Michael is telling the truth.
But there's no way to know for sure.
I also believe that we need to have clearly established priorities for relationships. For what its worth, it is generally and legally accepted that a marriage relationship takes priority over a parent-child or sibling relationship, when all parties are legal adults. For the courts and legislatures to step into those established relationships is very scary to me.

 

[bsnyder]

And I agree too, bet. That, in a nutshell, is the whole troubling aspect of this whole case. Since there was no documentation, no eyewitnesses that this was Terri's express wishes, we have to trust that Michael is telling the truth.
But there's no way to know for sure.
I also believe that we need to have clearly established priorities for relationships. For what its worth, it is generally and legally accepted that a marriage relationship takes priority over a parent-child or sibling relationship, when all parties are legal adults. For the courts and legislatures to step into those established relationships is very scary to me.

I don't know - I'm pretty torn on the "clearly established" relationship thing. It's my personal opinion that Michael acted honorably in this situation. That's based on the totality of the evidence, both for and against his actions. But I can easily see other situations where a spouse would have very nefarious motives. Should loving parents have to watch helplessly, in that case, because of the cut and dried relationship boundaries? I would hope not. I think the courts should be given a lot of leeway to judge the individual situation, and that where there's not solid proof of the person's wishes, and someone willing to care for the individual they should err on the side of life. JMO, of coure.

 

[Galahad]

I also believe that we need to have clearly established priorities for relationships. For what its worth, it is generally and legally accepted that a marriage relationship takes priority over a parent-child or sibling relationship, when all parties are legal adults. For the courts and legislatures to step into those established relationships is very scary to me.

Bingo. This was alway the most important issue to me in the whole affair.

 

[bsnyder]

I also wish we'd have some type of national campaign, to educate people and encourage and assist them to PUT THEIR WISHES IN WRITING.

But I won't hold my breath that it will happen.

 

[cardaway]

IMO this case all but proved that we need a system where the spouse has the only vote that matters. Very often people do not share the same beliefs of their parents, but are likely to make sure their spouse does share the beliefs on important matters.

Sure it causes problems on oaccasion but I think it would be a big mistake to have it any other way. How else would anybody free themselves from the beliefs of their parents?

 

[LindsayDunn228]

Michael and his new wife were on the View this morning and I just don't get the guy, never mind his new wife. For the record, I don't think the parents should have written a book either. However, when asked by Meridith why he didn't just divorce Teri and let her parents take care of her, Michael said he made a vow to Teri for "in sickness and in health".....

I guess "forsaking all others as long as you both shall live" wasn't a vow he believed in. The idea that he invoked his wedding vows just didn't sit well with me. He could have said he felt obligated to her or that he cared what happened to her and I might have been ok with it. But don't bring up your wedding vows! JMO.

Thank you!!! My thoughts exactly!