Merit Pay for Teachers

[vettechick99]

Well I'd be out of a job because 9 of my kids are special needs and some of them it's taken 2 years to learn 10 sight words.

 

[MrsPete]

Will the teacher who gets lousy kids because he's "good with them"

You're describing me. I like the kids I work with, and no one else wants them. Yet some people would cut my pay because they'll never score as well as other kids.

So you don't get more money the more years you teach? that is an automatic raise.

So you are making the same exact rate as you were 5 years ago?

Nope. We've been in a salary freeze for two years now -- or is this the third year? We did not receive an earned bonus for the last two years (though no one ever said it was based upon availability of money, though apparently it was). Our insurance has gone up significantly, so we are bringing home less than we did a couple years ago. At the same time, our teacher numbers have gone down, so we are teaching larger classes for less money.

While this isn't a unique situation in today's world, it is notable that teachers started at a lower salary point, so it hurts us more than it'd hurt a business executive.

NC teachers don't make a high salary, as compared to many other states. Our last governor had a plan to get us up to at least average for the US, but then he was gone and a new one came in who stopped all that. We don't have unions, so we are at the mercy of the state. Last year, we had a furlough imposed on us to pay for a budget shortfall. There were a lot of teachers eating ramen and mac n cheese that month!

I hope all the NC teachers will remember how our illustrious governer treated us when it's time for re-election. I promise you, if it were up to my county, she'd be out the door right now.

They could be reviewed by their principals just like almost any other professional is and their raises or no raise based on this review. Many other professions have no hard scores to base your performance on and they are reviewed.

This and the automatic increased done away with will be a start.

In theory this sounds good, but then so does Communism.

So many things happen that aren't "visible" to those outside the school. Here's just one example: Up until this year, all 10th graders were required to take the writing test and it was one of the things upon which our school was graded. So once a year we'd bring all the 10th graders together and give them the test. Yet the students knew ahead of time that their grade on the writing test wouldn't impact their grade in English class. So how many of them gave the test "their all"? The public sees those scores, judges that Teacher A is better than Teacher B based upon those scores, and schools receive money based upon those scores . . . but it's not clear to everyone that the students have no real motivation to take the writing test at all.

For several decades people in the education business, people who really know schools, people who are strongly motivated to improve things, have tried to figure out a fair way to do what you're suggesting . . . and they've continued to come to the same conclusion: It's not workable.

 

[castleview]

They could be reviewed by their principals just like almost any other professional is and their raises or no raise based on this review. Many other professions have no hard scores to base your performance on and they are reviewed.

This and the automatic increased done away with will be a start.

You bring up an interesting point. In this teacher union hunting season (thank you Waiting for Superman), people have overlooked the responsibility - and many times - ineptness of administrators. Schools are suffering from huge lack of leadership. Maybe it's everywhere that management seems to be a lost art.

But because many teachers couldn't make more money without graduating to administration, we now have a pool of administrators who went into it way too young, who are too weak, too connected to their former colleagues to lay down the law, or just have absolutely no clue how to manage…and above them are many superintendents and assistant superintendents giving teachers more to do so they supts. can grow their jobs….and few principals have the guts to stick up for their teachers. Firing a teacher isn't hard to do, you just have to document it. It's scares me to leave who gets a raise in the hands of people who can't accept their current responsibilities.

 

[Cindy B]

Hot topic for me.

I have the incorrigible students, I have the students who are ESL, I have the students who live in homeless shelters.

I have students who have both parents in correctional facilities and they are bounced from aunt to grandmom.

I have students that read 3 to 4 grades below grade level. I have students that are intense behavior problems.

Attendance is a HUGE issue in my room.

The ones that show up (either voluntarily or involuntarily-due to behavior) learn. If they don't show up, they don't learn. So even if they show up for my states standardized test, they won't learn anything.

They can't show up enough to get a passing grade on any of the standardized tests.

What should I do? Where should I begin?

 

[torinsmom]

I hope all the NC teachers will remember how our illustrious governer treated us when it's time for re-election. I promise you, if it were up to my county, she'd be out the door right now.

First thing I said when she signed the legislation to make the furlough happen was that I hope she enjoys her one term as governor. She sure did not carry on Hunt's legacy; she threw everything he worked for right out the door.

 

[okeydokey]

as it should be. You shouldn't automatically get more money just because you lived to the next year. All raises should be reviewed and based on merit/and or demand for the job.

There is no money for merit raises either. Nothing is reviewed. In good times the state holds onto money and doesn't reward performance. In bad years there is no money. We do the work because we value it and it is important to the population of out state. Job performance has no influence on salary.

 

[Mary•Poppins]

If you have never read this ... it is a wonderful story of how test scores (and merit pay) can be linked to dentistry.

http://www.trelease-on-reading.com/no-dentist.html

I am a teacher ... and would be all for merit pay if it could be done fairly. I am a remedial reading teacher and have great results with my students, but, they could never compete with a classroom teacher or a gifted teacher.

And, when I was in a classroom, I ALWAYS got the behavior students because "I could handle them". This was done so that the principal could eliminate problems and complaints from parents and students.

And to be honest, principals really get an unfair shake. You truly could not pay me enough for the hours and work they do. It is a thankless job. When my husband was in sales and he would have a supervisor for about 10 to 15 sales reps. In our school, a principal has to manage 25 teachers, 15 support staff, 8 lunch aides, 5 custodians .... how can principals effectively manage all these people and then do everything else they are expected to do. Our district has had 3 principals go back into the classroom and are so happy to be there. (However, any principal that is hired now is told this will not happen ... at least in our district.)

Sorry to rant, but it is really hard to always hear the negativeness surrounding teaching these days ...... (and I had a bad day at school, excuse my vent).

 

[torinsmom]

"Testing" teachers using a subjective measure is just as bad as testing kids using that kind of measure, IMHO. A certain score is accepted as the "norm" and all kids are compared to that norm. The better way for kids would be to compare them to themselves. That's what I always did with my DS's standardized tests. I would compare his 2003 score to his 2004 score on the language, math, etc. section. That told me how much HE had grown vs. how he compared to what the state thought he should be doing. It irritates me when everyone expects kids to all be above average. There is no way for every kid to be above average.

In the same way, each class is different. Some have lots of ESL or IEP students. Some have lots of low performing students. Some have majority gifted students. It would not be fair to compare the scores of those teachers' kids, IMO. I like the evaluation instrument my school uses. It measures how well a teacher performs things like classroom management, implementing lessons effectively, etc. There's a lot of different areas. Of course, we don't get anything buy a pat on the back if we get a good evaluation.

 

[Ember]

What a great idea! Let's do it for doctors, too, based on how healthy their patients are. So, if they have a high percentage of obese patients, patients that smoke, etc., they clearly aren't performing well because these people aren't as healthy and we'll deny them a raise. It makes total sense!

 

[Liberty Belle]

What a great idea! Let's do it for doctors, too, based on how healthy their patients are. So, if they have a high percentage of obese patients, patients that smoke, etc., they clearly aren't performing well because these people aren't as healthy and we'll deny them a raise. It makes total sense!

 

[pooh4evr]

It is hard to base someone's pay on what another individual does-- meaning if you have a great teacher who does everything they can do in the classroom, but they have a bunch of parents/families who are unsupportive at home and don't follow through with homework, studying... then the kids grades will show it. The same can be said for paying Drs based on the health of their patients a Dr can prescribe all the meds, give you a diet and exercise program to follow but if YOU choose not to do it why is the Dr at fault.