Membership Magic Beyond

[lilsonicfan]

Class wars? Are you referring to the difference in perks if you buy direct vs resale? I’m sorry, there is several thousand dollar difference between the two, your perk is saving 10k. My perk is having access to moonlight magic, lounges, paying an upgrade fee, etc.

I'm not the one who referred to class wars, but I would only point out that for many years, whether you bought resale or direct, you had access to the same membership perks, implying that DVD really did not care all that much about who qualified. As time goes on and the perks to resale members have waned (not all at once, which may serve to create more of a 'class war' situation), people on this board say, well, DVD's marketing budget is the reason it's only direct members who benefit.

But to me that argument has never fully made sense. If the person who owned my resale contract before me, who bought in likely at somewhere in the range of $100 per point, could access the perks if only she had held on, but I can't, simply because I bought resale, to me that has no real relationship to the DVD marketing budget. If that direct owner before me 'paid into' the DVD marketing budget once and continued to benefit as long as she held the contract, ostensibly DVD suffers nothing at all by letting me benefit from the perks once I take over the contract. My contract would have already 'paid into' the DVD marketing budget.

What makes more sense is that the slow taking away of perks to resale members and now the slow creep toward paid perks even for direct members is that this is all, of course, a way to increase profit. Originally the slow taking away of perks for resale members was to drive direct purchases. It's hard for me to understand the paid perks for direct members as being anything other than a money grab because these perks are absolutely easy to just offer to the direct members, and could easily have been offered to direct members owning more than 300 points or some such thing like that. To me, the argument that perks are available to direct-only because of the DVD marketing budget was weak to begin with, but is further weakened by DVD introducing paid perks.

 

[Pooh12863]

We're AP holders with Memory Maker, never use OTU points, and never use the lounges, but I already know were spending $99 so my wife can meet special characters,

 

[PrincessKL]

I think DVD is going to be looking carefully at the ticket usage statistics and ask the question why are we letting people buy APs for free, and having them pay extra for the privilege of a multiday 5 day ticket.

The annual passes DVC members can buy with "a discount" is only the Sorcerer Pass that Florida residents can also buy for the same price. So I think of it as Disney is considering DVC members as "Florida residents" because we do own a piece of the property in Florida and we do pay for utilities. However, Disney does not consider us as fully Florida residents and that's why we cannot buy the cheaper annual passes that are available to the real Florida residents. This is reasonable to me. I really hope they don't charge us a fee to give us something that Florida residents would already be getting.

 

[tidefan]

What makes more sense is that the slow taking away of perks to resale members and now the slow creep toward paid perks even for direct members is that this is all, of course, a way to increase profit. Originally the slow taking away of perks for resale members was to drive direct purchases. It's hard for me to understand the paid perks for direct members as being anything other than a money grab because these perks are absolutely easy to just offer to the direct members, and could easily have been offered to direct members owning more than 300 points or some such thing like that. To me, the argument that perks are available to direct-only because of the DVD marketing budget was weak to begin with, but is further weakened by DVD introducing paid perks.

One of the things that we like to harp on in Statistics is that you need to pay attention to your assumptions. I see a lot of times on here where people say "Oh, well their models must indicate that this maximizes profit" or something like that, and that is likely true, that there is some forecasting or other modeling done in the background to try to maximize profits. However, those models are all built based on assumptions, and if those assumptions change or aren't met, well, you can figure out how good those models are.

As we like to say, "All models are wrong, but some are useful"...

 

[DonMacGregor]

But to me that argument has never fully made sense. If the person who owned my resale contract before me, who bought in likely at somewhere in the range of $100 per point, could access the perks if only she had held on, but I can't, simply because I bought resale, to me that has no real relationship to the DVD marketing budget. If that direct owner before me 'paid into' the DVD marketing budget once and continued to benefit as long as she held the contract, ostensibly DVD suffers nothing at all by letting me benefit from the perks once I take over the contract. My contract would have already 'paid into' the DVD marketing budget.

The person who owned the contract before you had shown an inclination to purchase points directly from Disney, so from a marketing perspective, there is a statistically higher likelihood that that person will purchase direct from Disney again in the future. You, by choosing to purchase your initial contract via resale rather than direct, have shown a statistical likelihood not to purchase future direct points from Disney (or at the very least, purchase far fewer points as add-ons than you would have on a large initial direct purchase). Spending marketing dollars on you is a poor use of those marketing funds.

It's not about who "paid into" the marketing budget in the past (which also isn't really the case as you buy points at whatever price Disney sells them at, and they spend that money at their discretion on whatever they want, marketing being one use), it's about how that budget can best be spent to ensure future direct purchase revenue.

 

[Hubalorian]

I'm not the one who referred to class wars, but I would only point out that for many years, whether you bought resale or direct, you had access to the same membership perks, implying that DVD really did not care all that much about who qualified. As time goes on and the perks to resale members have waned (not all at once, which may serve to create more of a 'class war' situation), people on this board say, well, DVD's marketing budget is the reason it's only direct members who benefit.

But to me that argument has never fully made sense. If the person who owned my resale contract before me, who bought in likely at somewhere in the range of $100 per point, could access the perks if only she had held on, but I can't, simply because I bought resale, to me that has no real relationship to the DVD marketing budget. If that direct owner before me 'paid into' the DVD marketing budget once and continued to benefit as long as she held the contract, ostensibly DVD suffers nothing at all by letting me benefit from the perks once I take over the contract. My contract would have already 'paid into' the DVD marketing budget.

What makes more sense is that the slow taking away of perks to resale members and now the slow creep toward paid perks even for direct members is that this is all, of course, a way to increase profit. Originally the slow taking away of perks for resale members was to drive direct purchases. It's hard for me to understand the paid perks for direct members as being anything other than a money grab because these perks are absolutely easy to just offer to the direct members, and could easily have been offered to direct members owning more than 300 points or some such thing like that. To me, the argument that perks are available to direct-only because of the DVD marketing budget was weak to begin with, but is further weakened by DVD introducing paid perks.

It’s honestly a very simple explanation, as DVC grew, so did the resale market. How would Disney ever sell a new property if resale market saved them 10-15k for the same exact membership? The only difference would be home resort booking window which would not be nearly enough to move most people to buy for a 10-15k premium

 

[MISCdisney21]

It's basically renting points at $14-15/pt, but you can't use them at 7-11 months.

It's more than the cost of dues. Less than renting from an owner (but renting from an owner can potentially get a cheaper room at 11 months out).

I'd do it if I needed the points, but I don't see a need to force the issue.

(P.S. If you pay the $99 regardless of using/renting OTU points, like many might do, then it's a "sunk cost" and the incremental cost of the OTU points is really just $10/pt, which is in the ballpark of just the annual dues for most resorts)

It’s definitely not for everyone. I see biggest benefit is someone you has 150 points and comes once a year- can take advantage of memory maker and possibly midweek ticket discount.

OTUP is like renting. A downside from outside rental is at 7 months but plus side us OTUP will be on your membership just to be safe you keep it. And maybe you can negotiate but most rentals I see are $16+

 

[lilsonicfan]

All good, I'm not complaining about what perks I do or don't get as a resale member, living where I do it would be difficult to even use perks if I had them. My point is just that people twist themselves in a knot to explain why these marketing decisions make sense. Personally if I were a direct member I'd be worried that this Beyond thing is just the start of a paid perks model, but as someone said earlier, while some of us might expect blowback, what we see instead is many people cheering on the paid model.

 

[tidefan]

All good, I'm not complaining about what perks I do or don't get as a resale member, living where I do it would be difficult to even use perks if I had them. My point is just that people twist themselves in a knot to explain why these marketing decisions make sense. Personally if I were a direct member I'd be worried that this Beyond thing is just the start of a paid perks model, but as someone said earlier, while some of us might expect blowback, what we see instead is many people cheering on the paid model.

This is where I'm at. We own a fairly sizable number of points across multiple contracts, all direct. While I have no use for this offering and don't really care about it one way or the other, it does concern me about the future.

 

[MyDogTink]

In a sense, I feel like the MMB’s priority access to lounges is diminishing the direct benefits pitched to me when I purchased direct. That’s the one perk in this package that puts a DVC-Y member behind a DVC-YB member. The other perks don’t have the same effect. I know perks can come and go. Am I thinking about this incorrectly? I honestly don’t use much of the direct benefits at all. This just leaves a sour taste and if I have to worry about future ‘paywalls’ for other direct member benefits, then this will factor into my decision on future direct vs resale purchases.

 

[Moneypenny]

Of course, our trip when we *might* want to use these benefits is January 8-12, so no dice for us.

 

[EYL]

My guide just called to check up on me and eventually let me know about the Beyond program. Even though I can find value in the Program, I gave it a thumbs down because these perks should be given to DVC-Y. I basically told him that we spend thousands more buying direct and here we are spending more for perks? He's such a nice guy... I did let him know that I'm not complaining about him, but rather the company that he represents. He understood and suggested that I contact Member Satisfaction using a link in the CONTACT US portion of the DVC website, but I can't find it.

 

[TCRAIG]

24 points for under $15 and no dues on points. What am I missing? Why shouldn’t I do it?

Because…OTU points are ONLY GOOD for 7month NEW ressies - you can’t use them to ‘replace’ points from your original booking…but if those limitations work for you - then yup - it’s a good deal!

 

[cheryl.UK]

As a fellow UK DVC-er, I’m not sure I get the benefits for us.

The UK park tickets are cheaper even with the discounts offered here.

And we have a sorcerer AP anyway. I guess the MM add on is alright, but you get that for free with UK tickets and we just add it on to one of our APs anyway.

We both have APs so one of us would get it and we would use the MM then get better access to the lounges

 

[erionm]

My guide just called to check up on me and eventually let me know about the Beyond program. Even though I can find value in the Program, I gave it a thumbs down because these perks should be given to DVC-Y. I basically told him that we spend thousands more buying direct and here we are spending more for perks? He's such a nice guy... I did let him know that I'm not complaining about him, but rather the company that he represents. He understood and suggested that I contact Member Satisfaction using a link in the CONTACT US portion of the DVC website, but I can't find it.

DVC Member Satisfaction Team: dvcmembersatisfactionteam@disneyvacationclub.com

 

[JackosinDIS]

Apparently MS has informed another owner (not me) that APs will be 95 points, or 80 for a renewal. Complete hearsay, but if true it is obviously terrible value.

 

[MICKIMINI]

It’s honestly a very simple explanation, as DVC grew, so did the resale market. How would Disney ever sell a new property if resale market saved them 10-15k for the same exact membership? The only difference would be home resort booking window which would not be nearly enough to move most people to buy for a 10-15k premium

Well, in our case we bought direct in 1996, 2000, 2019 and who knows how many resales (we've sold most of them) over the years. We may buy more direct in 2024 or 2025. Many direct owners have resales and many initial resale buyers now own direct. I learned something early on in my career and that is not to judge someone based on their perceived wealth. Direct vs resale is all on what it offers to a buyer's unique situation and what their needs and wants are.

10-15K over 25-30 years is not much when you think about it and that buyer may treasure the unique experiences that come with that expenditure. In the end, that direct purchase may even come out to be less than a resale of equal points. You can't get those years back. I can say I do not regret any DVC purchase. While we've traveled many other places, those WDW vacations have some of the fondest memories for me personally. I'll pay my $99 on Dec. 3 and enjoy a few added perks for 2025.

 

[MarkNC2Disney]

Segment-based pricing, to infinity and Beyond!

 

[lowlight]

If a few are the only ones that buy, then Disney won’t press this issue. If it’s a success and majority buy, you are then in the minority.

It’s also not too late, sell you stake and buy Marriot if you believe they’ll end up being identical products. No one is stopping you.

It’s always the slow boil with these things, though. It always starts with a trial balloon that isn’t wholly objectionable, but tests the reaction of the people. I do believe paying for front of the line lounge access is a trial balloon, and therefore an immense deal for those who are opposed to the very idea of it like myself. Even if the majority of people buy into this, it doesn’t make it good, it just means a certain type of person is born every minute.

 

[WxKristin]

Apparently MS has informed another owner (not me) that APs will be 95 points, or 80 for a renewal. Complete hearsay, but if true it is obviously terrible value.

It's definitely a terrible value relative to renting them out at $17+ per point. However, for those that don't want to deal with renting, it could be close to the right price. I value my points at roughly $11 per point (initial buy in + dues), which works out to $1045. Sorcerer Pass is $999 + tax. Not a discount in any way, but if you have extra points that you've been banking it might be an option. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'm not loving the precedent that this pay-to-play system sets. I also agree that we are likely to see the price go up annually and quickly for these 'perks' depending on how many people jump on board. However, if the discounts for park tickets are as good as some of the local weekday passes that DL and WDW have offered previously, I would consider it. Since the pricing and restrictions of when they'll be offered are still unclear, I'm in no hurry to join the purchase.

Also unclear, is this something that needs to be purchased by a certain date (e.g., Jan 12, 2025) or if we decide we want a trip and need OTU points later can we add it at any time?