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[ColinA]

When making a reservation why does MS borrow points from the next use year when there are plenty of points available in the current use year. This is the second time it has happened.

We use most of our points each year for an approximate 3 week stay, if we have extra points we stay in a 1 bedroom for a few nights, then change to a studio. Any points left over we bank to the next year.

 

[Dean]

They should nevers borrow points without your permission. Remember it's the points at the time of the reservation dates and not when you make the reservation that is the guiding force. Example: say you have a December use year and were making reservations now for December. You couldn't use any current year points unless you banked them FIRST. The other factor is home resort priority. They won't use current points at the 11 month window if they are from another resrot.

If they borrowed points when you truly had points that would have been ok without borrowing and without your permission, I'd ask them to fix it, which they can do. If you needed to bank points to use them, ask them to bank then substitute the points. Good luck and let us know what really happens as I'm just guessing here at this point.

 

[PamOKW]

In my recent dealings with MS, they have even specifically asked me whether I wanted to use my OKW or my Vero points (both within 7 month window). Dean is right that they should never bank or borrow without asking your permission first.

Dean is also right that what may be happening is they are using the points that are current to the year of the reservation. That is what happens if you don't tell them to bank the points. It's simply a matter of officially banking the points and asking them to reallocate how they are used.

 

[Richyams]

Something sounds wrong. They would always use current points first. If you have banked points, those should be used first, but we have heard of current points being used, leaving banked points behind...this is wrong, the do try to use banked points first, but we have heard this several times.

I don't recall ever hearing of this. They should definitely be able to fix it. I would also ask how this happened, I would ask for a supervisor and ask how it happened. That should not have happened.

Let us know....

 

[DebbieB]

Anytime I make a reservation, I always confirm my point balances by use year at the end of the call. Most cm's do this automatically, but if they don't I ask.

As Dean mentioned, point usage is based on the date of the stay, not the date you make the reservation. So if the dates of stay are in your next use year, they will use next year's points unless you bank some of this years first.

 

[PamOKW]

Rich, it's something I never really thought through but if you read Dean's explanation it makes perfect sense and is how things should be done.

Let's say my Use Year is December. I have 200 points from December 2002 that must be used by November 2003. I haven't booked anything with them yet.

I call today and make a reservation for February 2004. They will not use those December 2002 points unless I tell them to bank the points.

They will make the reservation with my December 2003 points. In this example, I've used all of them.

I never call and bank my December 2002 points. I never make a reservation that ends prior to November 2003. I have lost my "current" points but I have a reservation that is current for next year with current points in use.

Hopefully, I will eventually use or bank these points. In that case, when I call in January to check my point status I will have no current points but 200 banked points available. I could ask them to reallocate the points using the banked points first (provided there are no home resort issues).

They can't take it upon themselves to make banking decisions. I could have made that reservation today and call tomorrow wanting to book something for July using this year's points.

 

[ColinA]

Our home resort is BWV, we now have 494 points in one contract, we book every day for BWV right at the 11 month window to make sure we get the reservation over the Christmas period.

MS has never suggested borrowing points, we have had sufficient points every year, and then when we stay over Christmas I ring MS and bank the extra points to the next year. Seems simple to me.

I am still waiting for the email explanation from MS. It is not the first time it has happened, the first booking we ever made with DVC was with the preference list when they would ring and book your whole reservation in one phone call, (wish they would bring it back) yes they rang me at 2 am in the morning, at that time they borrowed points all the points from the next year, and left the total of the current use year. It was corrected thankfully.

 

[ColinA]

I balance the points in a spreadsheet every year, it pays to keep a check on MS.

 

[Dean]

ColinA , I’m not doubting you at all only saying that what I’ve heard from you does not match at all my experiences with MS. I think MS is good but not perfect and I watch them like a hawk when it comes to points accounting. Still, they usually sound much like a stock broker when it comes to this issue. They usually ask if you want to borrow points, confirm you want to borrow points and confirm the remaining points in the use year borrowed from. I keep expecting them to say, “now you know this is being recorded”. When I interact with them using points, I always confirm both current and applicable future years accounting for each resort we’ve worked on and frequently all of them as well. We have 3 use years, 2 home resorts and a total of 4 contracts with the add on being at a different home resort than it’s base contract so it can get confusing. Having worked with them for so long with so many interactions, I am simply having trouble fathoming that they would borrow points when you have applicable points current for when you’re making the reservation.

It seems like you have a great grasp of the process so this is not at all adding up. There must be a complicating factor, especially as it seems from your posts this has happened more than once. I’d love to know your home resort(s), total points, use year, and what exact reservation you’re making. Are you calling yourself or delegating the task? It seems you’re banking well ahead and making reservations day by day for Xmas time which should pose no problem I can think of other than multiple chances for something to happen. I’d make one suggestion to you for future reservations. When you reserve, tell them how many points you have in the current and future use years, tell them exactly which points to use EVERY TIME and then remind them how many points that should leave in your present and future use years. Remember that could actually involve 3 use years if you’re making reservation for a use year that is different than when you’re calling. Hopefully we can figure out why this is happening so you can head it off for you and others.

When I contact MS about a reservation, I only give them the contract numbers I want to work with for that call rather than all 3. A call or email from me would be something like this:

I want to make an OKW reservation using contract number 000000000. There are currently 250 points (50 banked) in the August 02 use year, 200 points in the 03 use year and 200 points in the 04 use year. I want to reserve a 3 BR Grande Villa at OKW arriving Sunday 5 July and departing Sat 11 July for 400 points. Please use the 50 banked points, all 200 of the current use years points and borrow 150 pts from the 2003 use year. This should leave no points in the 2002 use year, 50 in the 2003 use year and all 200 in the 2004 use year.

Note, I pulled the dates and numbers out of the air for example.

I know there are certain times when MS can’t see the points accounting for a given use year. The situation I’m aware of wouldn’t apply to your case though. It’s when you are basically borrowing points from 2 years ahead, they can’t easily see the totals for the year you’re borrowing from.

 

[InstImpres]

That sounds strange. I have had to borrow a few times recently and each time they are obviously reading off a cue card. "It looks like we will need to borrow those points. Do you want us to do that? (yes) Do you understamd that borroowed points can not be returned to their original use year?)

Maybe some are more dillegent about this script than others?

Just my thoughts
Sandy

 

[DVC Eeyore]

I had a similar problem when I called in Jan at the 11 month window for my upcoming Dec trip. By the way, it's funny your example uses a Dec use year as that is what I have for all of my contracts!! Anyway, I did bank my points from my 2002 use year into the 2003 use year for this trip at VWL. I called back at the 11 month point a few days later--I wanted to make sure I didn't confuse the CM at MS so I broke up my requests for banking and ressies over 2 separate phone calls. When I called back to make the actual ressie the CM used 2003 use year points and tried to borrow from 2004!! Apparently the CM couldn't see ANY banked points or any left in the current use year nor could the CM find my 3rd VWL contract. I had to grit my teeth a bit and ask to speak to a supervisor who saw everything right away the first time and had no trouble with my ressie. To make a long story short, and the moral of the story is as follows: Some of the CMs may be new and still learning the system. It sounds like you may have the same issue I did--a NEW CM who is not fully trained yet!! Be patient and make sure you write down the names/dates/time of all phone calls to be on the safe side. My issue was resolved on the same call by a supervisor but is because I was asked about borrowing or I would never have known what the CM was trying to do to my ressie!!

DVC Eeyore

 

[MELSMICE]

I'm fairly new at this but here is how it was explained to me & what we did:

I called in May to make a ressie for April 2004. Our use year is Feb. We had remaining points in our 2003 use year when I called.

The CM I spoke with said to make my ressie using my points that would become available in 2004. She said that once I banked my 2003 points I could not "unbank" them (if that is even a term) in case I wanted to plan another trip. At that time we were actually thinking of a weekend getaway for DH & myself.

I asked what happened if we didn't use our 2003 points. She said they either had to be banked or reallocated by July 31 2003.

Well, I called back within the next couple days because we did decide on the weekend trip. I was able to use some of the 2003 points & then reallocated the rest. So they took my remaining 2003 points, put it towards my April 2004 trip & put those points back into my 2004 account.

We recently decided to do a small add on. After those points were in our account I called & reallocated those points which were now available to me towards my 2004 account. They then took 25 points from my April 2004 trip & put them back into my 2004 account.

I have been very confused each time I have called MS, but each CM I have spoken with have taken the time to explain everything over & over until I understand it. I don't think they have tried to steer me wrong or have they?

 

[ColinA]

No problems Dean, just trying to give more details, our use year is September, the points are one contract, originally we purchased and then added on as a resale, the resale was added to our original contract and all at the Boardwalk.

I would think that I fully understand that if points are borrowed, they cant be returned. I make the reservations myself. If extra nights were booked and then cancelled, this would cause points to be borrowed, but that is not the case as we have booked the airfares previous, and know the dates.

The only suggestion I would make is that we ring from overseas, booking for one of the busiest periods for DVC, and right on opening time of MS, the operators are probably rushed, and may not tell you all the info.

It is not a big problem what they have done, I will ask the further questions regards points etc, when I book again next year. If I dont get an answer by email, I will ring MS in the next few days.

Thanks everyone for the comments and suggestions.

 

[Dean]

ColinA, I can see no reason for them to do this. Let us know when they give you an explanation please.

 

[PamOKW]

In September of 2002 you get points that are good through August 2003.

You call in January 2003 to book your December 2003 trip. They use points from the Use Year that will be in current in December 2003. These are the points you will be receiving in September 2003, not the points that are currently in your account. I think this is what you are referring to as "borrowing". They cannot actually borrow unless you give them permission to do so. Borrowing for you December 2003 trip would mean using points from your September 2004 allotment.

If you want to use your September 2002 points for December 2003, you have to bank them into 2003.

Could this be the scenario?

**Just re-read this and I've got confusing language in the paragraph above. Let me see if I can clarify. When you refer to MS having borrowed points, what I think may be happening is that they are using the points that will be current in December 2003 -- your September 2003 (not September 2002) allotment. To use the Sept. 2002 points for the December 2003 trip you must bank them. MS should never bank nor borrow without explicit instructions from a member and they provide a confirmation number for the banking transaction. The scenario is the same as the one described by Melsmice only using Colin's Use Year and trip date.

 

[MELSMICE]

PamOKW - I was wondering the same thing because I was initially confused when I called MS & they used my Feb. 2004 points for my April 2004 trip. I couldn't understand why they didn't take my current 2003 points & use them first.

Then the CM explained to me that I would have to bank & then use them. She said once they are banked they can not be moved. She said if we were going to plan another trip in 2003 I may want to leave them there.

That's what we did & we ended up planning the other trip as I previously posted & then banked the rest.

It was a little confusing at first, but I was also wondering if there is where ColinA was confused.

 

[PamOKW]

Yes, Melsmice we are describing the same situation. Not sure if that's what happening with Colin but it could be an explanation. Sometimes things get tricky when Use Years and real reservation dates cross.