Me, these two, and a heelan coo: Scotland June 2018

[sayhello]

Do you have children?

No, but I have 32 nieces and nephews and a close friend with 10 children, and lots of friends with children who travel, so I'm not ignorant of what it takes to travel with kids. I think that's kind of besides the point. I'm talking about your report, and my impressions of it.

ETA: And thanks for editing your post after I replied to it. I'll reply to your post when I can formulate the proper words.

Sayhello

 

[Jess_S]

Sorry. I tend to put things up and then edit them as I go. It's just my writing process. I did not realize you were typing too.

 

[sayhello]

Sorry. I tend to put things up and then edit them as I go. It's just my writing process. I did not realize you were typing too.

That's OK. It just makes it look like I only chose to answer your first sentence and ignored the rest. I totally have not.

Sayhello

 

[lpm23]

Sorry. I tend to put things up and then edit them as I go. It's just my writing process. I did not realize you were typing too.

I think by in large most people on these trips are happy to travel with kids as long as the kids aren’t going crazy etc.

It is great you actually had a good trip. I will say from reading through your report it sounds like you were pretty miserable. So maybe it just reads differently because you did spend a lot of time focused on his behavior etc in the report when maybe that was just a small part of your day.

We just did the Rhine last month. I am sure my 6 year old probably melted down about something each day. But looking back on the trip that wouldn’t be anywhere near the top things I remember because of all the other really great parts.

 

[calypso726]

@Jess_S Just wanted to chime in as someone who is reading your trip report. I am enjoying it very much and really love your sense of humor so please don’t abandon your trip report. The Scotland ABD we did 5 years ago is my favorite of the 10 we’ve done but the itinerary is completely different than the one you experienced so that in and of itself make it a compelling read for me and I imagine others who may be lurking and not posting.

I’ve done family ABD trips and adult only ABD trips and loved both. I don’t have kids and do not have any dietary restrictions. However, your report allows someone like me to appreciate challenges that never cross my mind. So thank you for sharing that perspective. I hope you continue the story.

 

[CaliKris]

I am enjoying your trip report and your witty writing style. I have to commend you on parenting your child during your ABD. My husband and I took our first ABD last year. It was intense and a bit tiring, but an awesome experience none the less. Our children could never have handled it at 5 years old. There were *some* parents on our trip (definitely not the majority) who stated that this was their vacation from their children. They ignored their children even when they were rough housing and misbehaving. At one restaurant in particular I was embarrassed for our group because their children were affecting the experience for the non-ABD guests. The guides ended up having to step in. I appreciate the fact that you took ownership of your own child and are fully aware of his behavior. I do have children who are now adults in their twenties but had their fair share of melt downs.. I like children and worked with them for years. I don't like to judge other parents, but I have to say if people want to take a vacation from their children then do just that. Leave them at home.

 

[tink1970]

@Jess_S...your trip report has made me LOL more than once! I have a now 17 year old but one of my favorite memories is of her stubbornly insisting at age 6 (while in the pool at Wilderness Lodge with fireworks going off at MK) "you NEVER let me have ANY fun!" That sort of keeps me in perspective when traveling with her (or on group trips- other children)...they are Zen Masters and live in the moment and if that moment isn't Valhalla then everything is Hades (please excuse the mixed metaphors- you get the idea).

I'm sorry, too, that you have a new disease to deal with...I'm sure that underlying pathology made some things hard which might have been not so hard on your trip. I hope that you find treatment which will minimize or eradicate your symptoms and you and your family will be able to travel (with or without ABD, with or without a group) again soon.

 

[CaliforniaGirl09]

Add me to the camp of people surprised to hear that you enjoyed your trip and would consider another ABD, LOL! This TR clearly shows how different people can read something and come out with completely different takes I’m glad @Jess_S that you pointed out that you’ve been editing posts as later readers might wonder what some of us were reacting to. [Just a heads up though ... some places can get really upset when you edit posts for content without putting something in at the end to make note that you did so. DIS is pretty relaxed, but I usually try to put a note at the bottom of a post if I've edited saying what I did.]

I am curious though about whether in retrospect you would do it again at five or wait until your son was a couple years older? That might help future parents considering the trip with young children. I’m also curious, given what you’ve said about the marketing as a family trip, as to whether when you booked the trip ABD said anything about your son’s age?

Looking forward to the sum up, and sorry to hear about your health issues. That's rough

 

[Jess_S]

Add me to the camp of people surprised to hear that you enjoyed your trip and would consider another ABD, LOL! This TR clearly shows how different people can read something and come out with completely different takes I’m glad @Jess_S that you pointed out that you’ve been editing posts as later readers might wonder what some of us were reacting to. [Just a heads up though ... some places can get really upset when you edit posts for content without putting something in at the end to make note that you did so. DIS is pretty relaxed, but I usually try to put a note at the bottom of a post if I've edited saying what I did.]

I am curious though about whether in retrospect you would do it again at five or wait until your son was a couple years older? That might help future parents considering the trip with young children. I’m also curious, given what you’ve said about the marketing as a family trip, as to whether when you booked the trip ABD said anything about your son’s age?

Looking forward to the sum up, and sorry to hear about your health issues. That's rough

Your first sentence sums up my reaction to the last few posts. I was honestly puzzled that anyone would think we hated everything, when I thought I was describing a generally nice vacation with a few areas that could be improved. But there's clearly a spectrum of reactions to what I wrote.

I have been mostly editing to fix typos. Every time I re-read, I find another. But to address your concern I edited the post that say hello responded to so that people can see what was up when she was typing versus what I added after.

I won't specifically respond to everyone's posts, but I appreciate the feedback and well wishes on my health. I wanted everyone to know that if I seem grumpy, it's probably because I am. (And wait until day 7 of the trip where I really put my foot in my mouth while I try to explain something to DS.)

@Jess_S...your trip report has made me LOL more than once! I have a now 17 year old but one of my favorite memories is of her stubbornly insisting at age 6 (while in the pool at Wilderness Lodge with fireworks going off at MK) "you NEVER let me have ANY fun!" That sort of keeps me in perspective when traveling with her (or on group trips- other children)...they are Zen Masters and live in the moment and if that moment isn't Valhalla then everything is Hades (please excuse the mixed metaphors- you get the idea).

I'm sorry, too, that you have a new disease to deal with...I'm sure that underlying pathology made some things hard which might have been not so hard on your trip. I hope that you find treatment which will minimize or eradicate your symptoms and you and your family will be able to travel (with or without ABD, with or without a group) again soon.

Ha! My son told us at WDW that we were so mean for making him go there. And then 2 minutes later it was the best trip ever. It's funny how kids can be so different from one another, but so alike in certain ways.

 

[Jess_S]

I forgot to answer the now versus later question for booking ABD. We are thinking of doing another in 2020 if we can afford it. For me, once DS is old enough to entertain himself sometimes, I do not see as much value in a group tour. I anticipate that by the time he is 9 or 10, we would be unlikely to do a group trip unless it was necessary ( ie Galapagos) or there was some other specific reason a group held special appeal given the trip.

If we cannot afford ABD in 2020 (Africa rates seem to have doubled), then we are considering Thomson. They told me they try to match families with similar age kids together, so it seems like DS would have a better chance of finding a playmate.

 

[BluesTraveler]

I've appreciated your candor in how challenging kids can be! Your son has come across to me as a typical 5 year old boy. The ABD website says this trip is minimum age 4, suggested age 6, so I think you were fair in your assumption that there would be a core group of younger kids (i.e., younger than 10) on the trip.

Your description of the itinerary has made this trip go back on my list, whereas I had dismissed it before.

Do you think, based on the activities and stamina required, this is a trip that is better for 8 and up? (I ask as a general question - my youngest is 10 so wouldn't affect us).

 

[RSM]

I forgot to answer the now versus later question for booking ABD. We are thinking of doing another in 2020 if we can afford it. For me, once DS is old enough to entertain himself sometimes, I do not see as much value in a group tour. I anticipate that by the time he is 9 or 10, we would be unlikely to do a group trip unless it was necessary ( ie Galapagos) or there was some other specific reason a group held special appeal given the trip.

If we cannot afford ABD in 2020 (Africa rates seem to have doubled), then we are considering Thomson. They told me they try to match families with similar age kids together, so it seems like DS would have a better chance of finding a playmate.

We did Thomson's Japan trip in June and had a great time. We are doing their trip to Vietnam with a Cambodia extension next year as well. Thomson also does S. Africa and Tanzania trips if you are interested. It is small group travel though. We had 12 on our Japan trip, and we are currently the only ones signed up for Vietnam (nice thing is that it got guaranteed when we sent our deposit in). Good luck choosing, there are alot of options out there including DIY.

 

[Jess_S]

I've appreciated your candor in how challenging kids can be! Your son has come across to me as a typical 5 year old boy. The ABD website says this trip is minimum age 4, suggested age 6, so I think you were fair in your assumption that there would be a core group of younger kids (i.e., younger than 10) on the trip.

Your description of the itinerary has made this trip go back on my list, whereas I had dismissed it before.

Do you think, based on the activities and stamina required, this is a trip that is better for 8 and up? (I ask as a general question - my youngest is 10 so wouldn't affect us).

I would say not necessarily. Michael told us that the start times for Scotland are later than a typical ABD, which he thought made the new itinerary more kid friendly. Itinerary wise really the only packed day is day 1. If I had to do that day over, I would have skipped the Britannia in favor of sleeping in, which would have allowed more time at Edinburgh castle. We were too tired to fully appreciate the castle because it came after a very full day and we only really got an hour there. All of the other days have a good mix of sight seeing versus hands on activities that make the trip younger-child friendly.

I asked DS your question and he said the trip is good for young kids AND "old kids." He also said that everyone should see the zoo because it has monkeys and the castles. (His favorite castle was "the Scottish one"). Finally he would like everyone to know that the owl he held is called Bramble.

 

[acndis]

I don’t want to get too OT but wanted to chime in that we are the crazy people who took our four year old on the Greece ABD. He did great but like Jess, his dad and I knew we would be sitting out of some activities and taking a nap during OYO time. Greece was ideal for a young kid but we also had a fabulous group of JAs who loved little kids. That said, DS always sat with us on bus trips and at meals even though the JAs requested that he sit with them. I told them that he’s cute for five minutes but can be annoying for much longer. I think Jess is right that the right itinerary can work well for younger kids but the parents have to know that they may have to compromise on some aspects. Until recently, DS has always been the youngest on the trip and as some others have said, on some trips, there are hardly any kids. I am finding this harder as he gets older and he has started to want to know if there other kids on the trip. Based on this TR, I would say this itinerary would not work for our family. It is too much touring (of castles, etc). The active stuff appeals to us more. That said, I am enjoying this TR and thanks to Jess for writing with a parents’ perspective. I also always appreciate Sayhello’s input! I think this is a good discussion.

 

[Calfan]

I forgot to answer the now versus later question for booking ABD. We are thinking of doing another in 2020 if we can afford it. For me, once DS is old enough to entertain himself sometimes, I do not see as much value in a group tour. I anticipate that by the time he is 9 or 10, we would be unlikely to do a group trip unless it was necessary ( ie Galapagos) or there was some other specific reason a group held special appeal given the trip.

If we cannot afford ABD in 2020 (Africa rates seem to have doubled), then we are considering Thomson. They told me they try to match families with similar age kids together, so it seems like DS would have a better chance of finding a playmate.

I can confirm that Thomson does try to match families with similar aged kids, so that could definitely be a good option for your next group trip if you are looking for an alternative to ABD. We did China with Thomson when my kids were 11 and 13 (close to turning 12 and 14), and we were matched with a family with kids ages 7, 10 year old twins and a 12 (almost 13) yo. The kids got along great, and we were also well matched with the parents. As RSM noted, though, Thomson’s trips tend to be smaller groups (I believe they try to cap at around 20, but will go with the first family booked even if that is the only family to book). We are doing Japan with them in 2020 and have requested to be matched with other families with teens, if possible, and my contact there responded that they would absolutely look to do that and had already steered a grandmother with a 10 yo grandson away from our date so we could each travel with more compatibly aged kids.

I’m also really glad to hear that your overall impression of the Scotland ABD was favorable and that you aren’t turned off to group travel. Totally agree that different people can interpret the same piece of writing differently, and I was definitely one who was concerned that you did not really get a chance to enjoy this trip. And I’m also sorry to hear about your health isssues. Like calypso and CaliforniaGirl, we did the Scotland ABD the first year (calypso is correct in pointing out that today is the 5-year anniversary of the start of that trip), and absolutely loved it. Definitely my favorite of the 3 ABDs we have done so far. I am enjoying reading about your trip since the itinerary is now so different, and I also appreciate your humor.

 

[wanderlust7]

I spent a long time considering whether I should take this trip report down since some people apparently think it reflects poorly on my family. However, the comments from other parents who read my posts in the spirit they were intended have convinced me to complete the report in case it might be of help to others (or give them a laugh).

@Jess_S

I'm glad you decided to keep it up. I'm looking forward to reading the rest. I see my family interactions in your descriptions, including the annoyances with your DH.

I think a trip report should be about sharing information, experiences, impressions - however you may perceive them. However much or little you want to share, positive or negative. Too much criticism and who would even want to write one?

 

[kristilew]

I haven’t done a Thomson trip but am registered with them. When they book families compatible with mine on trips I’ve expressed interest in, they email me. It’s a nice touch.

 

[Jess_S]

We did Thomson's Japan trip in June and had a great time. We are doing their trip to Vietnam with a Cambodia extension next year as well. Thomson also does S. Africa and Tanzania trips if you are interested. It is small group travel though. We had 12 on our Japan trip, and we are currently the only ones signed up for Vietnam (nice thing is that it got guaranteed when we sent our deposit in). Good luck choosing, there are alot of options out there including DIY.

I actually started talking to Thomson after reading a post where you mentioned them. The small group size does worry me a bit because we are planning to bring my parents when we go to Africa and I like the idea of them having other grandparents in the group. But the Thomson rep has been very nice to deal with, so they are our backup if the ABD is really going to be 12,000 per person.

I don’t want to get too OT but wanted to chime in that we are the crazy people who took our four year old on the Greece ABD. He did great but like Jess, his dad and I knew we would be sitting out of some activities and taking a nap during OYO time. Greece was ideal for a young kid but we also had a fabulous group of JAs who loved little kids. That said, DS always sat with us on bus trips and at meals even though the JAs requested that he sit with them. I told them that he’s cute for five minutes but can be annoying for much longer. I think Jess is right that the right itinerary can work well for younger kids but the parents have to know that they may have to compromise on some aspects. Until recently, DS has always been the youngest on the trip and as some others have said, on some trips, there are hardly any kids. I am finding this harder as he gets older and he has started to want to know if there other kids on the trip. Based on this TR, I would say this itinerary would not work for our family. It is too much touring (of castles, etc). The active stuff appeals to us more. That said, I am enjoying this TR and thanks to Jess for writing with a parents’ perspective. I also always appreciate Sayhello’s input! I think this is a good discussion.

I don't think it's OT in the context of a discussion on whether ABD is good for young kids. I agree that the discussion that sayhello's post prompted has been a good one. I am firmly in the camp of yes, take the kids, so for me it is a question of whether a tour or on your own is right for a specific family. DS has been building castle siege scenes with his legos since he got home, so it seems he got some enjoyment from the touring - but sometimes we just tested his patience.

 

[sayhello]

I think by in large most people on these trips are happy to travel with kids as long as the kids aren’t going crazy etc.

It is great you actually had a good trip. I will say from reading through your report it sounds like you were pretty miserable. So maybe it just reads differently because you did spend a lot of time focused on his behavior etc in the report when maybe that was just a small part of your day.

We just did the Rhine last month. I am sure my 6 year old probably melted down about something each day. But looking back on the trip that wouldn’t be anywhere near the top things I remember because of all the other really great parts.

Thank you for saying this better than I did.

Sayhello

 

[DCPhotoGal]

I am also glad you've decided to continue with the report. I write mine on my blog and just share the link, so there has been fewer discussions relating to them along the way. Like you, I think I would be upset if comments could be construed as critical toward my choices. I think those of us who have taken many ABDs and now have older children have a sort of "hindsight" perspective. It does get a little easier to participate in group tours as the kids are in the "sweet spot" age-wise. My kids were a little older on their first ABD, but even at the ages of 13 and 14 my girls still have the potential for breakdowns like you mention with your son. On our trip to Australia last winter my then 12-year-old was so upset with me that I had made her sit next to me and not let her bother her sister at the back the bus that she elbowed me the whole "scenic wildlife" bus ride. Luckily I was the only one who knew she was having a fit... the 5-year-old on the trip with us was simultaneously having a much louder obvious breakdown at the front of the bus. The pace of some of the trips is hard on the kids, especially if they're not sleeping well.

ETA: as you can see from the list in my footer we have been traveling constantly with our kids since the youngest was 11 months old.