MDE/FP+ Poll Results

[Laketravis]

My guess is the majority of the 39% just want a combination of more selections, no tiers and multiple parks-and they will then fall into the positive side.

So get to work and start building attractions, that's what they do for a living shouldn't be that hard.

Heck the 10% would probably flip as well.

And the 51% would like it even better.

 

[wisblue]

Even if some people don't like it, it is in Disney's best interest to encourage it.

No doubt. But, if they discover that the number of people who dislike preplanning is substantial and that their dislike is so strong that they significantly curtail their visits, I suspect they would have to think about dealing with that.

But, if some people say that they hate the preplanning but put up with it as a necessary evil of visiting WDW, and a much larger percentage say that they like having things lined up in advance, I would think Disney would consider that a positive result.

Let me use this example. I would like it if we could make reservations for any table service restaurant at WDW same day or even the day before. We might not make reservations that often, but it would be nice to have that option. But, not being able to make these reservations certainly isn't going to affect our decision to visit WDW. So, as long as there are more than enough people to start snapping up those reservations 180 days in advance, the fact that I don't like the 180 day reservation option is not going to concern Disney.

 

[Angel Ariel]

My guess is the majority of the 39% just want a combination of more selections, no tiers and multiple parks-and they will then fall into the positive side.

So get to work and start building attractions, that's what they do for a living shouldn't be that hard.

Heck the 10% would probably flip as well.

And the 51% would like it even better.

Put me in that 39%. No tiers, more selections and multiple parks...and a 4th fro app, not kiosk, and yeah I might like it more. More is subjective...I don't know that I'll ever *love* planning that much in advance, but I'd deal with it better if there were more flexibility than I experienced in November.

Problem is, I don't see it happening any time even remotely soon. The two parks that need these the most are DHS and Epcot, but what's Disney's construction history of late?

New Fantasyland was announced in 2009, and while part of it opened in 2012, the major headliner of the expansion didn't open til May 2014. So 3 years for part of the land, 5 years til completion w/headliner.

Pandora is coming in 2017..hopefully it's opening won't be affected by the delay in the release of the sequel. 6 years from announcement in 2011 til opening if it's on time.

DHS has Star Wars coming...but that hasn't even been officially announced yet (with concept art/plans/etc). Given NFL and Pandora's timelines, it could very easily be 2020 or later before SW land is open.

Epcot - what *new* (not replacing/retheming an old attraction, but *adding* attraction capacity) is even rumored to be coming to Epcot outside of a meet and greet building? As far as the public is aware right now, there's no major expansions in the pipeline for Epcot as there are for AK and DHS.

While I understand that in the grand scheme of WDW's life the next 5-6 years is not a big deal to the company, that doesn't negate that it's a long time to ask your patrons to be patient while they build capacity to help make the system work better.

 

[JimmyV]

From the presentation that Rasulo gave to a conference earlier this month:

The question is how many of those eight days are they going to spend at Walt Disney World and how many of those eight days are they going to spend elsewhere among other attractions that are in the Orlando area? We know that when people plan at home before they arrive they spend more time with us. So enabling them with this planning tool called MyMagic+ has --- we knew that if people used that tool --- and many, many people are using that tool, I mean today over 50% of our guests are using the FastPass+, which is an inherent part of MyMagic+ --- we know that they will spend more time with us.

Love this part. After running it through the spin-stripper, it means...During their 8 days in Central Florida, we were capturing 5-6 days per guest and losing the other 3-4 days to Sea World and Universal. So we designed a ride allocation system that places a governor on park pacing so now it takes an average guest 7 days to do what they used to do in 5 or 6--we know that they will spend more time with us.

 

[Laketravis]

Edited to add: I was surprised by the 8-day stay quote. I had assumed that WDW was seeing a shortening of vacation lengths as the overall US market is taking shorter vacations on average. Interesting to see that that isn't what happens---probably because Orlando is an air-travel market, and so that skews high to amortize the travel costs over a longer vacation.

Yeah, this is off topic but I wasn't surprised by that for the reasons you indicated. I wouldn't consider going to Orlando for a couple of days, it makes economic sense for us to go longer.

We even played along and doubled the length of our stays the last couple of years from one week to two. But - up until recently we've NEVER stepped foot anywhere else except WDW while we've been in Orlando (outside of my business travel). Believe it or not, that held true for over 4 decades.

We won't be doing that anymore. WDW will now become part of our trip to Orlando, not all of. So at least in our case, they aren't going to achieve the desired effect of keeping us locked in for the duration.

 

[WillAustin]

Love this part. After running it through the spin-stripper, it means...During their 8 days in Central Florida, we were capturing 5-6 days per guest and losing the other 3-4 days to Sea World and Universal. So we designed a ride allocation system that places a governor on park pacing so now it takes an average guest 7 days to do what they used to do in 5 or 6--we know that they will spend more time with us.

That's what we're doing: adding several more days to get more repeat rides on our favorites. I'd rather do that than wait in standby lines. We won't be in the parks as long on those days as we used to be though. Probably exactly what they want.

We won't be doing that anymore. WDW will now become part of our trip to Orlando, not all of. So at least in our case, they aren't going to achieve the desired effect of keeping us locked in for the duration.

We used to never leave WDW property. That's changed now for us too.

 

[Brian Noble]

After running it through the spin-stripper, it means...

We all read things through our own lenses, I suppose.

I would like it if we could make reservations for any table service restaurant at WDW same day or even the day before.

Shameful confession: Most of the time, I make last-minute ADRs, the day before or the morning of. I've been doing this successfully for years now. Of course, I don't expect Chef Mickey's or 'Ohana, but there have always been plenty of choices of interest to me. The new CC hold policy has made it even better---lots of interesting things appear on that last day.

I did make an exception for our Christmas trip this past December. That time of year is busy enough that I didn't want to take chances. But I've done this for P-Week, Food & Wine, and spring break (though not Easter).

 

[Angel Ariel]

The people who hate FP+ because of capacity and availability factors (such as tiering, limit of 3, poor selection after first 3, etc.)would presumably be just as unhappy if Disney addressed what it perceived as an undesirable distribution of FPs by putting greater restrictions on the availability of paper FPs, such as limiting FPs to one per attraction per day and no more than 3 or 4 total. The reaction to the strict enforcement of FP return times is a pretty good indication of that.

As one of those who literally just said I was one of that group (lol ) - I would have been absolutely fine with Disney putting greater restrictions on paper FP availability. We never used FP past their window anyway, so that restriction never bugged us. And the restrictions like one attraction/day and no more than 3 or 4 total - still give us a clean slate each morning.

While there were rides we did/do like to re-ride (the ones designed to be re-ridden - Buzz, TSMM, Star Tours) - the clean slate each morning was always more importat.

Given these, and many other factors, that go into someone's reaction to FP+, I don't know if it's realistic to expect 80-90% customer satisfaction immediately.

I agree.

 

[MrInfinity]

No tiers

So... no Tiers. This is a big one for a lot of people. Let me ask you, Angel...

Do you stay on property? I do.

If Disney World was to remove the Tiers, you would like this?

I wouldn't mind it, because I stay on prop. I would be up at midnight on my 60 booking Soarin-TT-Maelstrom(Frozen). However, as a result, almost every single Soarin and TT pass would be gone by the time the 30-day bookers get a shot.

Is that an acceptable tradeoff to you? I.e. you would prefer no tiers, knowing that many non-resort guests will as a result, get no fast passes at all to Soarin or Test Track?

As well, pretty much every 2 out of 3 guests who did not get on quickly will not get to ride Soarin or TT save for by standby, while those who knew to get on right at midnight were able to score 3 FPs to them?

Just asking honestly if that would be a good system to you, and if you are typically resort / dvc or offsite.

 

[JimmyV]

Along these lines, I wonder what would the result have been if Disney had put in FP+, but only had FPs for attractions that had them before. Using Epcot as the example, that would have meant FPs for TT, Soarin, MS, Living With the Land, and Maelstrom. Because of the low total amount of FP capacity, there probably would have to be a limit of 1 FP per guest, or maybe 2 with TT and Soarin being tiered.

If they did this, there would be the same outcry there is now.

They certainly could have taken that path, and there would have been outcry. But it would be a different outcry than there is now.

The people who were used to getting FPs for both TT and Soarin (and sometimes more than 1 FP for one or both of them) would be upset because other guests are now getting some the coveted FPs that they used to get in a disproportionate amount. But, wouldn't that also create longer standby lines at the other attractions because people who got those multiple FPs are now redirected to other attractions, and the guests who didn't get a FP for either of them before now have one and can spend the 60-90 minutes they otherwise spent in a standby line at TT or Soarin doing other things?

But once in line, those people would not be cut off by FP users, so the SB lines would have moved more quickly. For example, if my touring plan places me in the Nemo line at 11:00, the only people ahead of me are the people ahead of me. Now, if my same touring plan places me at Nemo at 11:00, I am behind all of the people who are ahead of me, and all of the people who arrive after me who have a FP. If FP was not available for that ride, those that arrived after me would remain after me.

By adding more FP+ attractions, guests can now do two other attractions (like SE, Nemo, or Figment) with a FP too. So, out of 4 attractions, they can have FPs for 3 of them and a slightly longer standby line for the 4th one. But, the net result is less standing in line because the 20 minute wait for Figment is still shorter than the 60-90 minute wait for Test Track.

This is where the math gets difficult. If the 4th ride is Soarin', and I had to wait 90 minutes for it, but got to bypass 10 minute waits at Nemo and Figment, did I "win"? Would you rather have a FP- for Soarin', a FP- for Test Track, and wait in SB lines for Nemo and Figment, or have a FP+ for Test Track, a FP+ for Nemo, and wait in SB lines for Figment and Soarin'. Toss Figment out as a constant and your comparison is Soarin' versus Nemo. Fuzzy's experience notwithstanding, this seems to be a no brainer.

This is all getting too granular and off topic, which remains, was Pete right to be "shocked" at how only 10% say they "hate" MDE/FP+ given the amount of negativity he witnessed on the Boards.

 

[Brian Noble]

Is that an acceptable tradeoff to you? I.e. you would prefer no tiers, knowing that many non-resort guests will as a result, get no fast passes at all to Soarin or Test Track?

Just to remind people of the Epcot math:

Soarin' has an operational hourly capacity of about 1440 guests per hour, or a daily capacity of 17,280 in Epcot's typical 9A-9P day. Test Track is a little lower, at 1080 hourly or 12,960 in a day.
(Source: https://crooksinwdw.wordpress.com/tag/thrc/)

Epcot's annual attendance in 2013 was about 11,229,000. (source: http://www.aecom.com/deployedfiles/I...Index_2013.pdf) So, on an "average" day in Epcot, more than 30,700 people enter the gates. But, Soarin' and Test Track together can only give out 30,240 rides in total.

For every person in the park who rides both Test Track and Soarin', someone else in the park can't ride either. The third Soarin' theater will help with this, but it won't be enough to eliminate tiering if Disney's goal is "spreading the wealth."

 

[Angel Ariel]

So... no Tiers. This is a big one for a lot of people. Let me ask you, Angel...

Do you stay on property? I do.

If Disney World was to remove the Tiers, you would like this?

I wouldn't mind it, because I stay on prop. I would be up at midnight on my 60 booking Soarin-Soarin-TT. However, as a result, almost every single Soarin and TT pass would be gone by the time the 30-day bookers get a shot.

Is that an acceptable tradeoff to you? I.e. you would prefer no tiers, knowing that many non-resort guests will as a result, get no fast passes at all to Soarin or Test Track?

As well, pretty much every 2 out of 3 guests who did not get on quickly will not get to ride Soarin or TT save for by standby, while those who knew to get on right at midnight were able to score 3 FPs to them?

Just asking honestly if that would be a good system to you, and if you are typically resort / dvc or offsite.

Jade's scenario was based on Disney adding capacity to be able to handle those changes - NOT the current existing conditions in the park (see where she says "so get to work and start building those attractions). My response to her was equally considering the capacity being added.

No, that system would not work right now. The capacity simply doesn't exist for it. And if you read the rest of my post, you'll see where I said that I doubt we'll see that kind of capacity for those changes any time soon. My post was not advocating for that change now, nor would I advocate for that change now.

As for where I stay - DH is military, so our more of our recent trips have been to Shades of Green. Shades is considered offsite for FP+ purposes, though they do get EMH privileges. We did stay onsite at Yacht Club this year, due to the RunDisney Wine and DIne 1/2, and wanting to be within walking distance to Epcot at 4a. I'm hoping we'll be onsite again in Nov 2015, but I don't know. It'll depend on the extended family that's joining us.

 

[Laketravis]

Just to remind people of the Epcot math:

"Epcot's annual attendance in 2013 was about 11,229,000. (source: http://www.aecom.com/deployedfiles/I...Index_2013.pdf) So, on an "average" day in Epcot, more than 30,700 people enter the gates. But, Soarin' and Test Track together can only give out 30,240 rides in total."

Somebody should probably share that info with Disney..............


.

 

[mom2rtk]

So for Jade's plan to work, Disney needs to add ride capacity at a rate that outstrips annual attendance growth....... for how long? There's a lot of talk about new stuff coming at DHS, but they've already closed a bunch of stuff and will likely have to close more stuff still. I wonder what the net capacity addition will be. If they announced a huge expansion today, how many years will it be until we can erase tiers and allow more selections each day?

 

[JimmyV]

We all read things through our own lenses, I suppose.

Look at the post immediately above yours. This is exactly what the system was designed to do, and what it does. The system was either put in place to make people's trips more efficient, enabling them to do more in less time, or less efficient, forcing them to use more time to do what they did before. Take your pick. Better yet, consider the following boardroom scene:

The Scene: A boardroom in Burbank California. Picture a long table that seats 20 people. A side table holds a coffee urn and a plate of pastries. A Polycom speaker phone occupies the center of the table. Seated around the table are 7 neatly dressed men and women in business casual clothes. At the head of the table is a man, in his early 50’s. He wears a blazer with an open collar. At the other end of the table is a computer projector shining light onto a white screen. The picture displayed on the screen reads simply: “Theme Park Efficiency Project-Florida Division”.

Man At The Head of The Table (MATHTT):
Wentworth? I understand that your team has a presentation to make concerning your findings on park touring efficiency and a recommendation to make.

Wentworth (W):
That’s right, sir. Peabody here, our star efficiency expert has been studying computer models on guest touring patterns and has come up with some solutions that will revolutionize the way people visit and tour our theme parks in Florida. So I will turn this over to him and his Powerpoint presentation.


Peabody (P):
Thank you Mr. Wentworth. Ladies and gentleman…and can the folks in Florida hear me OK on the speakerphone?......Great. Thanks. We have been studying park visitation behavior for several years now, and we are comfortable concluding that the average Disney World guest comes to Central Florida and stays an average of seven nights in the area. The average guest buys a six day pass to the Disney theme parks, and visits those parks for, on average, 6.2 days. A small percentage of guests extend their stay, or add a day or two on to their passes.

These guests experience, on average, 14 attractions per day. So the total number of attractions experienced over the length of a vacation is 87, which is 14 attractions per day multiplied by 6.2 days per stay. And the interesting thing about our study is that once people hit that critical number of attractions that seems to hover around 90, they are satisfied and consider their stay complete. Adding additional attractions does not seem to enhance the experience, as there is too much repetition. Once the critical number is reached, guests’ interests wander off in other directions, such as dining, shopping, or experiencing other venues in the Central Florida region.

As a result of our study, we have concluded that with proper computer and internet connectivity, guests can use a new attraction allocation and distribution system that would allow them to tour faster and more efficiently. Our studies show that we can increase the number of attractions experienced each day to 17 or 18 with the use of a new RFID-based ride system that allows people to pre-book their attraction times. Assuming that each guest will be satisfied experiencing 87 to 90 attractions over the course of their stay, we can compress their stay down to, on average, 5 days instead of 6.2. This will allow guests to book fewer nights in our hotels thereby saving them hundreds of dollars. They will have between three and six fewer meals to buy, again, saving them hundreds more dollars. And they can purchase 5 day park passes instead of 6 or 7 day passes. The savings there are modest, but real.

In conclusion, we believe that we have devised a system for the future that will make the guests’ experience faster, more efficient, more compressed, and most of all, less expensive. This will free up more time for them to go out and enjoy more of what Central Florida has to offer. Thank you for your time.


W:
Thank you, Peabody. Are there any questions or comments? Sir?


MATHTT:
Wentworth….you’re fired. Get out! And take Peabrain with you!

 

[Angel Ariel]

So for Jade's plan to work, Disney needs to add ride capacity at a rate that outstrips annual attendance growth....... for how long? There's a lot of talk about new stuff coming at DHS, but they've already closed a bunch of stuff and will likely have to close more stuff still. I wonder what the net capacity addition will be. If they announced a huge expansion today, how many years will it be until we can erase tiers and allow more selections each day?

Based on WDW's recent construction timelines in the parks, I'd be surprised if they opened anythign sooner than 5-6 years from now, if they announced it right now.

 

[Laketravis]

Look at the post immediately above yours. This is exactly what the system was designed to do, and what it does. The system was either put in place to make people's trips more efficient, enabling them to do more in less time, or less efficient, forcing them to use more time to do what they did before. Take your pick. Better yet, consider the following boardroom scene:

The Scene: A boardroom in Burbank California. Picture a long table that seats 20 people. A side table holds a coffee urn and a plate of pastries. A Polycom speaker phone occupies the center of the table. Seated around the table are 7 neatly dressed men and women in business casual clothes. At the head of the table is a man, in his early 50’s. He wears a blazer with an open collar. At the other end of the table is a computer projector shining light onto a white screen. The picture displayed on the screen reads simply: “Theme Park Efficiency Project-Florida Division”.

Man At The Head of The Table (MATHTT):
Wentworth? I understand that your team has a presentation to make concerning your findings on park touring efficiency and a recommendation to make.

Wentworth (W):
That’s right, sir. Peabody here, our star efficiency expert has been studying computer models on guest touring patterns and has come up with some solutions that will revolutionize the way people visit and tour our theme parks in Florida. So I will turn this over to him and his Powerpoint presentation.


Peabody (P):
Thank you Mr. Wentworth. Ladies and gentleman…and can the folks in Florida hear me OK on the speakerphone?......Great. Thanks. We have been studying park visitation behavior for several years now, and we are comfortable concluding that the average Disney World guest comes to Central Florida and stays an average of seven nights in the area. The average guest buys a six day pass to the Disney theme parks, and visits those parks for, on average, 6.2 days. A small percentage of guests extend their stay, or add a day or two on to their passes.

These guests experience, on average, 14 attractions per day. So the total number of attractions experienced over the length of a vacation is 87, which is 14 attractions per day multiplied by 6.2 days per stay. And the interesting thing about our study is that once people hit that critical number of attractions that seems to hover around 90, they are satisfied and consider their stay complete. Adding additional attractions does not seem to enhance the experience, as there is too much repetition. Once the critical number is reached, guests’ interests wander off in other directions, such as dining, shopping, or experiencing other venues in the Central Florida region.

As a result of our study, we have concluded that with proper computer and internet connectivity, guests can use a new attraction allocation and distribution system that would allow them to tour faster and more efficiently. Our studies show that we can increase the number of attractions experienced each day to 17 or 18 with the use of a new RFID-based ride system that allows people to pre-book their attraction times. Assuming that each guest will be satisfied experiencing 87 to 90 attractions over the course of their stay, we can compress their stay down to, on average, 5 days instead of 6.2. This will allow guests to book fewer nights in our hotels thereby saving them hundreds of dollars. They will have between three and six fewer meals to buy, again, saving them hundreds more dollars. And they can purchase 5 day park passes instead of 6 or 7 day passes. The savings there are modest, but real.

In conclusion, we believe that we have devised a system for the future that will make the guests’ experience faster, more efficient, more compressed, and most of all, less expensive. This will free up more time for them to go out and enjoy more of what Central Florida has to offer. Thank you for your time.


W:
Thank you, Peabody. Are there any questions or comments? Sir?


MATHTT:
Wentworth….you’re fired. Get out! And take Peabrain with you!

BEST POST EVER!!!!

 

[wisblue]

Shameful confession: Most of the time, I make last-minute ADRs, the day before or the morning of. I've been doing this successfully for years now. Of course, I don't expect Chef Mickey's or 'Ohana, but there have always been plenty of choices of interest to me. The new CC hold policy has made it even better---lots of interesting things appear on that last day.

I did make an exception for our Christmas trip this past December. That time of year is busy enough that I didn't want to take chances. But I've done this for P-Week, Food & Wine, and spring break (though not Easter).

I should say that I had that experience too the first weekend of November. We wanted to have dinner at Liberty Tree because our daughter worked there during one of her stints at Disney so we made a reservation for the Saturday night. But, a week or two before we left we found out that MK was blacked out for CM gate passes that day. I tried to make a reservation for Sunday instead, but nothing was available. But, on Saturday night, I was able to get a reservation at exactly the time we wanted, probably because of cancellations.

There is an object lesson there that might also apply to FPs. It can't hurt to look the night before or morning of your visit to see things that may have opened up as people rearrange their plans.

 

[Brian Noble]

t can't hurt to look the night before or morning of your visit to see things that may have opened up as people rearrange their plans.

I managed to randomly grab a FP+ for the Christmas Parade in MK this way---by checking the DIBB thread periodically.

http://www.thedibb.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=835236

In hindsight I didn't need it; there were plenty of good spots in town square as we entered the park to make our way to the hub, but it was nice knowing I had it.

 

[Shaden]

No. It points to the fact that times are changing. You posted the polls from 1 and 2 years ago, above. They were resoundingly against FP+. Today, we see a new poll... in which results are not only not against FP+, but even in the worst possible interpretation, suggest 51% of posters actually LIKE FP+. An in a more middle ground interpretation, you could say anywhere from 70% to 84% like FP+. But we don't even have to say that.

Point is this poll, now 2 years into the FP+ rollout, shows what myself and many others said 2 years ago. Give it time... FP+ may be bad during the transitional rollout time (fortunately I did not go during this time) but when the kinks are worked out, it'll be fine.

In just 2 years, sentiment has turned that much. Even Lake has backed off his "expect to ride 3 things with minimal waits then you better like to shop" stance, as even he got on lots more than that. The system is working better than the horrors most predicted, although still not as well as some would like.

Ummm those polls are from the last year or so, One is from like ... 2 - 3 months ago