MCO - Do they have TSA full body scanners ?

[Lewisc]

I have an idea for all those who are afraid to get on a plane without being strip-searched or felt up:

Why don't YOU drive or take a train or a bus and leave flying to the rest of us who are not afraid of air travel. Then we can just go back to regular old screening, we can take our liquids, don't have to take off our shoes, etc., etc., etc.

Very interesting first post. I'm not sure if you're DIS who decided to create a new identity for this post or someone who found this thread via a google search and decided to put your 2 cents worth.

It won't go back to where it was. 9-11. Richard Reid. UK liquid bombers.

People who don't like the new rules can drive, take a train or bus. I doubt many (any) politicians will want to be seen as being in favor of less security.

People who think security measures aren't adequate should also drive, take a train or bus.

 

[goofy4tink]

El-Al has about 30 planes. They spend $100 million per year on security. Passengers are told to arrive at the check in counter 3 hours before their flight. Every passenger is interviewed. Racial profiling is used.

The El-Al security system wouldn't work in the US.

I do wonder if the money being spent on full body scanners could be better used implementing other different security measures.

http://www.businessinsider.com/sorry-the-el-al-israeli-security-model-will-never-work-here-2010-1

Everyone always likes to bring up El Al as a 'shining example'.

Just keep in mind there are exactly 2 international airports in Israel and 10 airports total.

The state of New York has more airports and WAY more air traffic internationally and domestically than the entire country of Israel.

The entire population of Israel is less than 10 million vs. 300 million PLUS in the US and 441 million in North America.

When the volumes are lower and when you have 12 domestic venues to be concerned about.. it's a LOT easier to be hard on security.

If the same security guidelines policies and procedures used there, were used in North America... air traffic and our entire air tourism industry would grind to a halt.

It's a false example to point to El Al.

And Israeli airports -- don't use body scanners in any significant numbers yet either.. And certainly if they do.. it's recent and therefore not a factor in their security success.

All that said.. I think that flying has been so ruined ..

Remember when it used to be something you dressed up for? LOL.

I understand what you're saying about El Al. And you're right..it is almost like comparing oranges to apples. But, there is room for improvement with our security system here. Too much false sense of security. I would love to see dogs in evidence. But, those people with allergies would complain.

Yes... in a heartbeat. Its a woman who does the pat down on a woman.. its thru clothing... she has been thru it countless times before... I think its a pretty personal choice.. As I stated earlier I could care less if I go thru the scanner.. could care less if someone sees me.. but my little girl? I think not. I woudl not be comfortable with it nor would she. Not even doctors see you totally naked these days... if her endocrynologist doesn't need to see her naked why would I want a total stranger (and possible male) do it?
Oh and the images do have faces.. they have been blurred out for public release.. the images the person sees will have some sort of face. I am not worried about someone connecting the image to me.. or even " stealing" it and doing lord knows what with it.. I just don't feel comfortable with them seeing the image period.. for 2 seconds.. for 10 seconds..
I don't fault the scanners at all.. I think it's sad that we have come to this. I do recall when you used to get dressed up to fly and it was an event. Now its a cattle call in which we are going to have to decide in which manner we would rather be violated ( or just not fly which is a choice).
As I see it we will have 2 choices in order to fly.. pat down or scanner.. I choose pat down.. Others may choose scanner.. personal choice.. has to be right for you..potato potatoe right?

You know...when I look at the photos, with those scanners, I can barely tell front from back. It just is not all that definitive. But, that is only my opinion. You are most certainly welcome to your own opinions, especially regarding your children.
But...I will say that a grainy image of my dd vs a hands on approach??? I'll take the gainy image.

I have an idea for all those who are afraid to get on a plane without being strip-searched or felt up:

Why don't YOU drive or take a train or a bus and leave flying to the rest of us who are not afraid of air travel. Then we can just go back to regular old screening, we can take our liquids, don't have to take off our shoes, etc., etc., etc.

I really doubt that if those who are against the current security measures stopped flying we would go back to the 'good old days'. Try to post in a less inflamatory way...it will be greatly appreciated.

 

[eliza61]

In short, these machines do nothing other than make people like yourself feel safe. That is it. They do not provide any additional security. The only additional function they serve is to turn the felons at the TSA into the worlds largest producers of child pornography.

So I guess your making the great assumption that the people who work at TSA are felons? Thanks, I always enjoy stereotypes and bigotry on a sunny saturday morning. Jeez

 

[eliza61]

Now that we have blonde, American women coming along with terrorist ties, no one should be exempt from as complete a screening as possible. And those who have posted about body cavities...yep, absolutely right. There are people out there, who look just like you and me, that will have no problem having explosives surgically placed in their bodies so as to hurt as many Americans as possible. They have no problem blowing themselves up in the process. So...no, nothing we have in place yet, is going to be 100% effective.
No amount of argument here is going to achieve anything.

Goofy, we had G.I. Jihadist (her nickname) and the other gentleman who was arrested in Yemen a few weeks ago for terrorism. Both of these individuals were from my "neck of the woods" (delaware Valley east coast). We're starting to get a reputation. Cheesesteaks, pretzels and home grown terrorist.

You are absolutely right. nothing in life is 100% guaranteed.

I don't care about someone seeing me like that- privacy isn't my thing. BUT, what I AM worried about is the radiation it gives off. I know I know they 'say' that it doesn't emit harmful enough radiation for it to do anything to you.... but come on- it's hard for me to believe that something that can SEE THROUGH YOUR CLOTHING doesn't affect you.

Has anyone opted for the pat-down?

The radiation is very different than the type used in medicine. It is called a back scatter radiation which means most of the radiation bounces back off your body. It probably gives off the same amount of radiation that you get naturally, flying in general exposes you to natural radiation.

I am not looking forward to the day that these scanners are commonplace.

So, if I want to fly, my options are to expose myself naked to a stranger or be groped by one? Are you serious? Where exactly DO you draw the line between security vs. privacy/dignity? The only other place you're subjected to that level of security screening is... well... prison.

.

Any where you would like to draw the line. As many have pointed out, flying is optional. If you think it's an invasion of your privacy or an affront to your dignity. don't do it.

I've gone through the ones in JFK and Europe a number of times and haven't turned up on youtube yet. so it's all good with me.

 

[pr surfer]

"Want" is the key word, flying is a choice, a priveledge, not a right, so you have to make the choice if the scanning is worth your time/effort/avoidance.

In the US, the public has the right to travel in and through the navigable air space. However, until as a species we grow wings, there is only one way to exercise that right.

Take a guess what that is.

 

[pr surfer]

So I guess your making the great assumption that the people who work at TSA are felons? Thanks, I always enjoy stereotypes and bigotry on a sunny saturday morning. Jeez

You're right, they're not felons. They're just common criminals. Every single one of them. The agency ignores the 4th amendment, retaliates against its critics, uses distraction as a strategy to avoid bad press. Many TSO's make their own rules on the spot, usually contradicting what has been officially published and then retaliate when questioned by passengers.

I apologize to felons everywhere.

 

[jlewisinsyr]

In the US, the public has the right to travel in and through the navigable air space. However, until as a species we grow wings, there is only one way to exercise that right.

Take a guess what that is.

You have a right to use the airspace, yes, feel free to go buy a plane (note, private planes and their passengers are not required to go through security and screening), but when you board a commercial airline your rights provided by the government (to fly in the airspace) are also dictated by what the the airlines want/desire. An private company (you could say the TSA is a governmental agency, but it is providing a service that is paid for via fees by the airlines - albeit somewhat mandatory) has certain rights and priveledges as well.

 

[goofy4tink]

While I don't consider myself a 'frequent' traveler, I do travel more than the normal, every day person. I have yet to meet a TSA employee who treated me badly or anything else to complain about. Most of them are honest, upstanding people just trying to do the job they were given to do. They aren't the ones making the rules...they are there to enforce them. Talk about shooting the messenger.
So...are we thinking that those who wish to make other people's lives miserable decide to apply for jobs with the TSA?
Flying isn't what I would consider a 'right' per se. More and more people are flying now vs the 'old' days when it was something special. So...we have more and more people doing things that are in violation of the stated rules. How many times do people go through the security line with a bottle of water or with full size bottles of shampoo?? And then they complain about having to toss it out. Is there some reason they couldn't familierize themselves with the rules beforehand??? No, they think the rules don't apply to them.
Do I like the 3-1-1 rule??? The whole 3.4oz thing drives me nuts. But that's just the way life is at the moment. If I don't like it, I can take a train or a boat. But to put all TSA employees in the same boat and call them felons or common criminals, well, that's just not fair.

 

[Chloesmom]

You know...when I look at the photos, with those scanners, I can barely tell front from back. It just is not all that definitive. But, that is only my opinion. You are most certainly welcome to your own opinions, especially regarding your children.
But...I will say that a grainy image of my dd vs a hands on approach??? I'll take the gainy image.


.

I can clearly see the genitals in both pics and you notice there have been no pics of females released? I googled to see and all available pics were male. I would be interested in seeing how it looks for a female.
In my googling I found several stories noting that the scans can see " drops of sweat on a persons back" . So much for grainy pics.....

 

[eliza61]

In the US, the public has the right to travel in and through the navigable air space. However, until as a species we grow wings, there is only one way to exercise that right.

Take a guess what that is.

No one is preventing you from exercising that right. Feel free to buy an airline ticket as often as your heart desires. The regulations while inconvenient do not impede you at all from using navigable air space. Your beef is that you don't like it and have a perception of invasion of privacy.

Not high on homeland security's list of important things.

 

[a1tinkfans]

I called MCO...

Greater Orlando Aviation Authority (GOAA)
Orlando International Airport
One Airport Blvd
Orlando, Florida 32827-4399
(407) 825-2001

MCO said they have TSA Full Body Scannners on order.
So maybe they will be in place by December 2010 !

MCO also said anyone who goes through the security gate, will also have to go through the TSA Full Body Scanner

Yeah for MCO security

I hope the JetBlue security area uses the TSA Full Body Scanners.

Now I hope non-international airports get the TSA Full Body Scanners too, such as SWF and LGA.

Good!!!

 

[pr surfer]

You have a right to use the airspace, yes, feel free to go buy a plane (note, private planes and their passengers are not required to go through security and screening)

I'm well aware of how general aviation works That's how I've been flying to Haiti over the past 2 months to bring relief supplies to the people of Port-au-Prince. I refuse to deal with a TSO on a power trip trying to confiscate medical equipment.

Oddly enough, when you break down the cost of a chartered Beech 1900 flying SJU-PAP-SJU, it's actually about $100/less per seat than a commercial flight on American Eagle and about $200 less on AA or Air France via Miami and PAWA via Santo Domingo. It's a shame I can't just book one seat... I gotta take the whole bloody plane.

 

[pr surfer]

No one is preventing you from exercising that right. Feel free to buy an airline ticket as often as your heart desires. The regulations while inconvenient do not impede you at all from using navigable air space. Your beef is that you don't like it and have a perception of invasion of privacy.

Not high on homeland security's list of important things.

How often do you fly? I fly twice a week right now between San Juan and Port-au-Prince, and several times per month to Panama City (Panama), Miami, New York, and DC. I'm barely cracking 30 yet have already flown my parents to South America and Europe in first class (as well as their flights within their destinations) on vacation for the past 4 years.

I have absolutely no issue with aviation safety, but not with the cat and mouse show the TSA provides, and not with the attitudes I have encountered by the TSA and CATSA in Canada. If other countries can have both A- effective security, and B- polite staff that do not pretend to have authority they do not (big pet peeve of mine when a TSO pretends to be law enforcement), why can't we?

It's a sad day when Panamanian, Guatemalan, and Haitian (the 3 countries I've been traveling to mostly this year) aviation security are just as effective as their US counterparts, but infinitely more polite. You still get patted down at the gate, and they are polite about it- not condescending like the TSO's in BOS were last week. They don't make up rules on the spot, like the TSO in SJU yesterday who absolutely refused to accept my passport card as valid ID, even though it's on the TSA's website as such.

Don't even get me started on the TSA's inconsistency.

 

[eliza61]

How often do you fly? I fly twice a week right now between San Juan and Port-au-Prince, and several times per month to Panama City (Panama), Miami, New York, and DC. I'm barely cracking 30 yet have already flown my parents to South America and Europe in first class (as well as their flights within their destinations) on vacation for the past 4 years.

I have absolutely no issue with aviation safety, but not with the cat and mouse show the TSA provides, and not with the attitudes I have encountered by the TSA and CATSA in Canada. If other countries can have both A- effective security, and B- polite staff that do not pretend to have authority they do not (big pet peeve of mine when a TSO pretends to be law enforcement), why can't we?

It's a sad day when Panamanian, Guatemalan, and Haitian (the 3 countries I've been traveling to mostly this year) aviation security are just as effective as their US counterparts, but infinitely more polite. You still get patted down at the gate, and they are polite about it- not condescending like the TSO's in BOS were last week. They don't make up rules on the spot, like the TSO in SJU yesterday who absolutely refused to accept my passport card as valid ID, even though it's on the TSA's website as such.

Don't even get me started on the TSA's inconsistency.

I fly pretty routinely. when I was in my late 20's I flew every day. I lived in Philly and my office was in Chicago. Lately though it's only been 2x a month but generally it's internationally to Europe.

Listen, I have no qualms what so ever with your annoyance. You're right the new regulations suck and are an annoyance. We could go on all day with a list of complaints about TSA agents. I've been lucky in that so far, I have not had any hassles but I also have no problems with the scanners.

The point is these issues are an inconvience nothing more. I hate it when a 20 year old cashier won't get off her cell phone long enough to do her job, such is life. Your rights and freedoms are in no way being impeded.

Whether or not you feel these measures help or do nothing is a moot point. As people often say when you point out universal health care in other countries, for some reason America does not like to do whatever the rest of the world finds to be effective. What can I tell you? Maybe we think if we adapt another countries security or other programs it some how threatens our constitution. who knows.

The measures are in place and you still have options around them if that is your wish.

 

[CPT Tripss]

Very interesting first post. I'm not sure if you're DIS who decided to create a new identity for this post or someone who found this thread via a google search and decided to put your 2 cents worth.

It won't go back to where it was. 9-11. Richard Reid. UK liquid bombers.

People who don't like the new rules can drive, take a train or bus. I doubt many (any) politicians will want to be seen as being in favor of less security.

People who think security measures aren't adequate should also drive, take a train or bus.

You have a right to use the airspace, yes, feel free to go buy a plane (note, private planes and their passengers are not required to go through security and screening), but when you board a commercial airline your rights provided by the government (to fly in the airspace) are also dictated by what the the airlines want/desire. An private company (you could say the TSA is a governmental agency, but it is providing a service that is paid for via fees by the airlines - albeit somewhat mandatory) has certain rights and priveledges as well.

Reid and the undie bomber failed miserably. Fortunately, no one has succeded in mimicing them. The "liquid bombers" were caught through good police work. They never got their syuff (if they even had any) to the airport.

Do you really believe that the airlines would voluntarily pay for TSA (with the fees they charge us)?

Where did you get the idea that Rights are "...provided by the government"?

ETA . . . the GAO isn't very supportive of the position you espouse.

...The intelligence community uses standards of reasonableness to evaluate individuals for nomination to the consolidated terrorist watchlist. In making these determinations, agencies are to consider information from all available sources. However, for the December 25 subject, the intelligence community did not effectively complete these steps and link available information to the subject before the incident...

...In October 2009, GAO reported that TSA had not yet conducted an assessment of the technology’s vulnerabilities to determine the extent to which a terrorist could employ tactics that would evade detection by the AIT. Thus, it is unclear whether the AIT or other technologies would have detected the weapon used in the December 25 attempted attack...

http://www.gao.gov/highlights/d10401thigh.pdf The full report is here http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d10401t.pdf

 

[CPT Tripss]

I fly pretty routinely. when I was in my late 20's I flew every day. I lived in Philly and my office was in Chicago. Lately though it's only been 2x a month but generally it's internationally to Europe.

Listen, I have no qualms what so ever with your annoyance. You're right the new regulations suck and are an annoyance. We could go on all day with a list of complaints about TSA agents. I've been lucky in that so far, I have not had any hassles but I also have no problems with the scanners.

The point is these issues are an inconvience nothing more. I hate it when a 20 year old cashier won't get off her cell phone long enough to do her job, such is life. Your rights and freedoms are in no way being impeded.

Whether or not you feel these measures help or do nothing is a moot point. As people often say when you point out universal health care in other countries, for some reason America does not like to do whatever the rest of the world finds to be effective. What can I tell you? Maybe we think if we adapt another countries security or other programs it some how threatens our constitution. who knows.

The measures are in place and you still have options around them if that is your wish.

Are you seriously comparing airport security and MickeyD's?

 

[doober]

While I don't consider myself a 'frequent' traveler, I do travel more than the normal, every day person. I have yet to meet a TSA employee who treated me badly or anything else to complain about. Most of them are honest, upstanding people just trying to do the job they were given to do. They aren't the ones making the rules...they are there to enforce them. Talk about shooting the messenger.
So...are we thinking that those who wish to make other people's lives miserable decide to apply for jobs with the TSA?
Flying isn't what I would consider a 'right' per se. More and more people are flying now vs the 'old' days when it was something special. So...we have more and more people doing things that are in violation of the stated rules. How many times do people go through the security line with a bottle of water or with full size bottles of shampoo?? And then they complain about having to toss it out. Is there some reason they couldn't familierize themselves with the rules beforehand??? No, they think the rules don't apply to them.
Do I like the 3-1-1 rule??? The whole 3.4oz thing drives me nuts. But that's just the way life is at the moment. If I don't like it, I can take a train or a boat. But to put all TSA employees in the same boat and call them felons or common criminals, well, that's just not fair.

The answer to that is a resounding yes!

Paraphiliacs are known to seek employment that will allow them access to their "victims". Therefore the chances are very good that with the wide-spread introduction of WBI and more invasive pat downs by the TSA, people with paraphilia will seek employment as screeners.

In just the last few weeks, at least 3 screeners have been arrested on child porn and molestation charges.

That is why many are now demanding that the TSA begin to do psychological profiling of potential employees in order to weed out those who practice deviant behaviors before they can view/touch you and your children at the airport.

 

[doober]

My Dd also wears a pump.. it has set of the regular metal detectors before and she was subject to a full body pat down even though we have a card from our Dr/pump company stating she has is wearing a medical device ( in longer terms but you get the idea). I am usually pulled aside and patted down also ( guilty by association?). One time she was also asked to remove it so it could go thru the scanner and I refused.. her site was in her buttock and unhooking it would not be easy plus I was worried about sanitation issues.. they were not happy but let us thru after seeing she had a full carry on loaded with other diabetic supplies...
I honestly dont know how this new machine will affect something like a pump. The radiation should not affect it really but who knows.. I guess one more detail they will need to figure out.
As to the PP who asked if I would rather have my child subjected to apat down vs someone seeing thier bits... yes..She has been thru the pat downs several times before ... not a big deal...and its a woman who does it.. who will be viewing the images? Women for women? Probably not. Its just a comfort level for me.

According to an article touting the arrival of WBI at ORD,

If some type of anomaly had been found on my body during the scan, I would have been guided to a "corral'' at the security checkpoint where pat-downs and scans using hand-held metal detectors are conducted. If the pat-down was inconclusive, officials would have escorted me to a private room for a more invasive search.

"more invasive search" is code for actual strip search.

 

[jaysmom4285]

sorry, my mistake - didn't mean to post here

 

[goofy4tink]

This thread is going down a path it shouldn't be on. The question has been answered, we are not going to debate this any further.