MB and FP+ a few complaints

[3happydancers]

I didn't say they should let people book their 4th from a different park ... just that you shouldn't have to stand in line at a kiosk.

But that would still put those who have IPhones at an advantage over those who do not. Just sayin...

 

[kaytieeldr]

Hello,
We just returned from a week long stay and the 2 most annoying issues we had were:

My MB had to be reset multiple times when entering a park.
CM would "ask" me questions like where were the tixs purchased at, what was the last park entered, how many days on the tix. This kind of makes you feel like a criminal ??? This did not happen to my DW or DS... only me.

What method of determining the validity of allowing any guest in your position would you recommend? Waving the guest through simply because their companions' entry admission works would be rife for frauud.

FP+ Disney needs to change this so you can reserve the 4th,5th etc from your phone instead of going to the park and reserving them. Later on in the day all the HL DR were out of FP+ and many had waits of 90+ mins.

Kiosks more even the playing field for guests without smartphones.

 

[mom2rtk]

Kiosks more even the playing field for guests without smartphones.

Why do you think Disney wants to even the playing field?

I bet it's done by phone by year's end.

 

[ifjf414]

Kiosks more even the playing field for guests without smartphones.

I really hope that 's not why Disney is making everyone use a kiosk. Most people have smartphones and they should be taking advantage of that instead of wasting resources by forcing them to use a kiosk instead of their own phone.

Also, why should everyone else be slowed down for the few that have old technology phones? It's not unreasonable to ask those who don't have a smartphone to use a kiosk. As long as you have to be in the park to make your 4th FP+ then using a kiosk won't take much longer. There wouldn't even be lines at the kiosks if those with a smartphone weren't using them.

It's like not allowing online reservations because not everyone has access to a computer. I'd be pissed if that's reason I'm waiting in line for a kiosk for a 4th FP.

 

[JimmyV]

I didn't say they should let people book their 4th from a different park ... just that you shouldn't have to stand in line at a kiosk.

Sure you did. You said that you hoped that people could book their additional FPs by app instead of at a kiosk. (And "app" implies mobility.) Once you do that, you lift all spacial limitations on where the person can be when they do their booking. How could you possibly allow people to use their phones but then enforce a requirement that the people using those phones have to be in a park? You could be headed out of the International Gateway on your way to DHS, making a FP reservation for ToT without stepping foot in DHS. Once you allow phone usage, you have to allow outside park bookings. So saying that you want to be able to use your phone is the same as saying that you want unfettered access to booking FPs at any time* from any place. That is the nature of a cell phone.

*Once your first 3 are used or expired.

 

[3happydancers]

I really hope that 's not why Disney is making everyone use a kiosk. Most people have smartphones and they should be taking advantage of that instead of wasting resources by forcing them to use a kiosk instead of their own phone.

Also, why should everyone else be slowed down for the few that have old technology phones? It's not unreasonable to ask those who don't have a smartphone to use a kiosk. As long as you have to be in the park to make your 4th FP+ then using a kiosk won't take much longer. There wouldn't even be lines at the kiosks if those with a smartphone weren't using them.

It's like not allowing online reservations because not everyone has access to a computer. I'd be pissed if that's reason I'm waiting in line for a kiosk for a 4th FP.

You see it your way because you have a smartphone. Those who don't, and there are many more who don't than you think, would not agree with you. Why should those who don't have a smartphone be deemed to stand in a line? You say it is not unreasonable to ask those who don't have a smartphone to use a kiosk. I say if the kiosk is good for those without smartphones, it's good for everyone to use.

 

[JimmyV]

I really hope that 's not why Disney is making everyone use a kiosk. Most people have smartphones and they should be taking advantage of that instead of wasting resources by forcing them to use a kiosk instead of their own phone.

Also, why should everyone else be slowed down for the few that have old technology phones? It's not unreasonable to ask those who don't have a smartphone to use a kiosk. As long as you have to be in the park to make your 4th FP+ then using a kiosk won't take much longer. There wouldn't even be lines at the kiosks if those with a smartphone weren't using them.

It's like not allowing online reservations because not everyone has access to a computer. I'd be pissed if that's reason I'm waiting in line for a kiosk for a 4th FP.

You are coming at this from the wrong angle. Remember that FPs (especially for headliners) are a finite and limited commodity. Complete smartphone app access will allow people to book their next FP at different parks on the chance that they might use it. If their plans change or they just don't get around to it, that FP is wasted and cannot be re-distributed. Very inefficient allocation of an allocated resource. By requiring that a person be in the park when they book their FP, you greatly increase the chances that the FP is truly wanted and will be used. And the only way to enforce the physically present requirement is to make people touch a kiosk. This converts the: "I might hop to Epcot, so I'll book a TT FP just in case" to: "I'm here at Epcot and I want to ride TT". Trust me when I say that you would be a lot more upset if the 4th FP was next to impossible to get because thousands of people were booking them with "Maybe" in mind.

 

[itchin2go]

Sure you did. You said that you hoped that people could book their additional FPs by app instead of at a kiosk. (And "app" implies mobility.) Once you do that, you lift all spacial limitations on where the person can be when they do their booking. How could you possibly allow people to use their phones but then enforce a requirement that the people using those phones have to be in a park? You could be headed out of the International Gateway on your way to DHS, making a FP reservation for ToT without stepping foot in DHS. Once you allow phone usage, you have to allow outside park bookings. So saying that you want to be able to use your phone is the same as saying that you want unfettered access to booking FPs at any time* from any place. That is the nature of a cell phone.

*Once your first 3 are used or expired.

It's not what I said, and it's not what I meant. If the kiosk is meant to function as a spatial limitation (and I don't know that's the intent), and Disney has no other way to enforce that spatial limit (and I can't imagine that there isn't another way), then I suppose suggesting allowing smartphones to access the 4th fastpass would yield that result.

At any rate, you've read additional things into my statement, or determined technology limits as fact, when I don't know if they're actually fact.

For me, it would just be convenient to be able to book a 4th fastpass while in some downtime at the parks, while sitting somewhere air conditioned and (at least somewhat) comfortable, rather than waiting in line at a kiosk. That's all I meant.

I don't have a strong opinion on whether you should be able to book FP+ in different parks on the same day. I don't think it would make a huge difference in my park experience either way.

 

[JimmyV]

It's not what I said, and it's not what I meant. If the kiosk is meant to function as a spatial limitation (and I don't know that's the intent), and Disney has no other way to enforce that spatial limit (and I can't imagine that there isn't another way), then I suppose suggesting allowing smartphones to access the 4th fastpass would yield that result.

At any rate, you've read additional things into my statement, or determined technology limits as fact, when I don't know if they're actually fact.

I haven't read in anything that you didn't put there by using the word "app". If you are using an app on a MOBILE phone or i-pad, then you can access that app wherever you have a cell signal. The only way to limit this would be to require mobile devices to access the app only via wi-fi and then lock out all attractions that are not within wi-fi range of the transmitter that you are connected to. Hardly a better solution than kiosks. The solution here is more kiosks. Pretty simple fix.

For me, it would just be convenient to be able to book a 4th fastpass while in some downtime at the parks, while sitting somewhere air conditioned and (at least somewhat) comfortable, rather than waiting in line at a kiosk. That's all I meant.

I get that. But convenience is the enemy of a limited resource. You could be in an air conditioned CoP show musing about riding Everest later in the day and say: "What the heck. Let me grab a FP just in case". Convenient for you, but antithetical to the way the system operates.

 

[AngiTN]

Sure you did. You said that you hoped that people could book their additional FPs by app instead of at a kiosk. (And "app" implies mobility.) Once you do that, you lift all spacial limitations on where the person can be when they do their booking. How could you possibly allow people to use their phones but then enforce a requirement that the people using those phones have to be in a park? You could be headed out of the International Gateway on your way to DHS, making a FP reservation for ToT without stepping foot in DHS. Once you allow phone usage, you have to allow outside park bookings. So saying that you want to be able to use your phone is the same as saying that you want unfettered access to booking FPs at any time* from any place. That is the nature of a cell phone.

*Once your first 3 are used or expired.

Easy. You only activate the FP once the band/ticket is scanned to enter the park. Your leap for the rest is just that, a bit of a leap. So what if I'm at MK and use my FP and plan to head to AK later so I book an AK FP. That FP won't be any good till I enter AK and then I can't get another FP till I use the one I booked. At that point I'm in AK. And allowing folks who do have a smartphone to book FP will remove a lot of the wait at the Kiosks, thus helping those who don't have a Smartphone by giving them shorter lines.

 

[AngiTN]

You are coming at this from the wrong angle. Remember that FPs (especially for headliners) are a finite and limited commodity. Complete smartphone app access will allow people to book their next FP at different parks on the chance that they might use it. If their plans change or they just don't get around to it, that FP is wasted and cannot be re-distributed. Very inefficient allocation of an allocated resource. By requiring that a person be in the park when they book their FP, you greatly increase the chances that the FP is truly wanted and will be used. And the only way to enforce the physically present requirement is to make people touch a kiosk. This converts the: "I might hop to Epcot, so I'll book a TT FP just in case" to: "I'm here at Epcot and I want to ride TT". Trust me when I say that you would be a lot more upset if the 4th FP was next to impossible to get because thousands of people were booking them with "Maybe" in mind.

Nothing stopping that from happening right now with the first 3 FP. Folks are booking FP on the chance that they'll use them. Sometimes they are booking some knowing they have no intention of using them so they can wipe out some FP early so they get to book the 4th one sooner. They book some for 9 and 10 knowing they can ride standby quickly then and when they use their 3rd at 11 they are ready to book a 4th much earlier than they would if they waited till later in the day to book all 3. Trust me, that is done quite a bit.

And folks won't book a maybe 4th FP at AK and then decide to go to Epcot instead, and not cancel that AK FP. They'd have to in order to book one in Epcot, or wait till the AK one expired. I don't think there would be that many incidents of people doing that.

Plus, another case of folks being able to book maybe FP, say you are at MK and use your first 3 by lunch. You plan a break at the resort and think you'll be coming back to MK so you book a 4th maybe one for afternoon. How is it different than your scenario with a maybe FP for a different park? And it can be done today at a kiosk.

And there is some advantage to those riding standby if there are no show FP users. It lets in an additional standby rider.

 

[itchin2go]

I haven't read in anything that you didn't put there by using the word "app". If you are using an app on a MOBILE phone or i-pad, then you can access that app wherever you have a cell signal. The only way to limit this would be to require mobile devices to access the app only via wi-fi and then lock out all attractions that are not within wi-fi range of the transmitter that you are connected to. Hardly a better solution than kiosks. The solution here is more kiosks. Pretty simple fix.

Technology is not my strong suit. But I have trouble believing that the app couldn't have limitations ... such as you're limited to booking fastpasses only in the first park you enter each day. Maybe it's easier to have a low-tech solution. But I have trouble believing it's not possible. You're limited to 3 fastpasses, right? You're limited by tiering, right? I don't know why the app couldn't have additional limitations.

If Disney doesn't want to invest in developing the app in that way, okay. I just don't believe that one necessarily follows the other (4th FP+ booking on the app means you can't enforce the one park rule). I don't. If you do, then we'll agree to disagree.

Again, I don't care one way or the other whether people can book FP+ in multiple parks, so that wasn't what I was commenting on.

 

[ton80]

What method of determining the validity of allowing any guest in your position would you recommend? Waving the guest through simply because their companions' entry admission works would be rife for frauud.

I would expect that once this happend to my MB the 1st time ( maybe the 2d time )the system would recognize me and not flag the MB 3+....



Kiosks more even the playing field for guests without smartphones.

I would expect that once this happend to my MB the 1st time ( maybe the 2d time )the system would recognize me and not flag the MB 3+....

 

[Robo]

Easy. You only activate the FP once the band/ticket is scanned to enter the park. Your leap for the rest is just that, a bit of a leap.

So what if I'm at MK and use my FP and plan to head to AK later so I book an AK FP. That FP won't be any good till I enter AK and then I can't get another FP till I use the one I booked.

At that point I'm in AK. And allowing folks who do have a smartphone to book FP will remove a lot of the wait at the Kiosks, thus helping those who don't have a Smartphone by giving them shorter lines.

If you are allowed to BOOK a FP+ in AK, it obviously would deduct that FP+ position from the available list, and "hold" it for you until right up through the Return Time hour of the FP+ time that you booked, even if you never got to AK.
(If it didn't, what is it that you "booked.")

That's one of the main problems of advance booking, depleting the available supply of "A-list" FP+ positions.

 

[JohnRPG]

It'd be fairly straightforward to add a GPS verification to the MDE app, so that a 4th FP+ reservation could only be made if the user (or rather, the user's phone) was physically within the park where they were making the reservation. This would have the convenience of using an app, rather than standing in line, while still retaining the localization requirement.

 

[JimmyV]

That's one of the main problems of advance booking, depleting the available supply of "A-list" FP+ positions.

Exactly. It's hard to comprehend that people here don't realize that making it easier to book FPs will make them run out sooner. There are already complaints that the 4th FP is illusory. Why would people want to make it more so?

It'd be fairly straightforward to add a GPS verification to the MDE app, so that a 4th FP+ reservation could only be made if the user (or rather, the user's phone) was physically within the park where they were making the reservation. This would have the convenience of using an app, rather than standing in line, while still retaining the localization requirement.

That would require everyone using their mobile device to activate the GPS function and that is a battery killer. As it is now, most phones can't handle a full 8:00-midnight day in the parks. No. The real and best solution here is to simply add more kiosks. The biggest complaint that people have about using them is the wait time. Double the number of kiosks--halve the wait time. Problem solved.

 

[JimmyV]

Nothing stopping that from happening right now with the first 3 FP. Folks are booking FP on the chance that they'll use them.

But if you are already in that park, the likelihood of using that 4th FP increases dramatically.

Sometimes they are booking some knowing they have no intention of using them so they can wipe out some FP early so they get to book the 4th one sooner. They book some for 9 and 10 knowing they can ride standby quickly then and when they use their 3rd at 11 they are ready to book a 4th much earlier than they would if they waited till later in the day to book all 3. Trust me, that is done quite a bit.

And folks won't book a maybe 4th FP at AK and then decide to go to Epcot instead, and not cancel that AK FP.

The two thoughts quoted above are inherently inconsistent. First, you say that it happens "quite a bit" that people are booking FPs that they don't intend to use, and later, you assure us that people will cancel their unwanted FP. Which is it? Disney had to implement a fee to prevent people from booking and not cancelling ADRs. Yet you think that these same peopel will diligently cancel all of their unwanted FPs? And if your FP runs from 2:00-3:00 and you cancel at 2:55, what have you accomplished. No one else can get that time back.

Plus, another case of folks being able to book maybe FP, say you are at MK and use your first 3 by lunch. You plan a break at the resort and think you'll be coming back to MK so you book a 4th maybe one for afternoon. How is it different than your scenario with a maybe FP for a different park? And it can be done today at a kiosk.

There is nothing different about these two scenarios. People might book a 4th FP for the park they are in and not use it. There is nothing in this system that can prevent people from booking FPs that they end up not using. It can't be helped. But it can be minimized. There is no reason to employ a system that makes that result more likely to occur.

And there is some advantage to those riding standby if there are no show FP users. It lets in an additional standby rider.

A collateral benefit, to be sure. But not one that you design a system around. "Hey Fred! Let's implement a change that makes it more likely that people will let valuable and limited FPs go to waste. That will shorten the Standby Lines!" I don't think you are going to be hearing that in the Imagineering think tank room.

 

[Robo]

It'd be fairly straightforward to add a GPS verification to the MDE app, so that a 4th FP+ reservation could only be made if the user (or rather, the user's phone) was physically within the park where they were making the reservation.

That would require everyone using their mobile device to activate the GPS function and that is a battery killer.

AFAIK, "outsiders" (non-owners) of a specific cellphone are not allowed to access the GPS locater in that phone without the owner's specific permission.

Disney can't access a user's phone GPS.

 

[BuzzinDownToDisney]

It'd be fairly straightforward to add a GPS verification to the MDE app, so that a 4th FP+ reservation could only be made if the user (or rather, the user's phone) was physically within the park where they were making the reservation. This would have the convenience of using an app, rather than standing in line, while still retaining the localization requirement.

You are talking about an app that for the past month can not distinguish the difference between midnight and 1am, nothing straightforward about it. Adding a GPS component is a recipe for disaster.

 

[FlipHipster]

If you are allowed to BOOK a FP+ in AK, it obviously would deduct that FP+ position from the available list, and "hold" it for you until right up through the Return Time hour of the FP+ time that you booked, even if you never got to AK.
(If it didn't, what is it that you "booked.")

That's one of the main problems of advance booking, depleting the available supply of "A-list" FP+ positions.

Yup, they still have to remove the FP you reserved from the available pool whether you show up or not.

I would love to see the following numbers from Disney although I know it will never happen:

1. How many people actually book 60 or 30 days out? *
2. How many guests that book 60 or 30 days out keep the reservations they originally made?
3. How many booked in advance are changed last minute/day of or skipped altogether?

* I know they threw out the 70% of guests are booking number, but it really means nothing without some context.

Plenty of people are reporting same day availability for non-headliners and the new and shiny hasn't even worn off yet. I wonder if in a year or 2 we will be right back to the FP- scenario where most people don't even bother with reserving FP except for headliners and just getting in the SB line for everything else.