May 10, 2008 Ship of Thieves! Stealing the Magic..AGAIN!!! Panama Canal FL to CA!!! Part 5

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I'm going to start my email campaign tonight. If anything, at least they should breakdown the exact taxes before and after. The only reason they wouldn't be if IF they were trying to hide something.

Good luck and have a good weekend.
Steph
 
Here's my email...wish me luck....
I recently received notification that DCL was going to increase my Panama Canal Westbound cruise by an additional $100.00 per person. It was stated that this was due to an increase in fees being charged by the Panama Canal Toll agency. What I DON'T have from DCL is the actual pre adjusted breakdown of what my "government taxes and fees" actually were collected against. I understand that DCL has been asked this question by several Panama cruisers and that request has been politely declined by DCL....in other words, you are NOT willing to let us (the passengers) know what exactly we are paying these taxes too. Please provide me with a specific pre increase and post increase breakdown of what my I paid in government taxes and fees, BY AGENCY.My original reservation listed $95.48 as the Gvmt tases and fees. My reservation # is xxxxx. I look forward to getting an answer to this question.
 
Here's my email...wish me luck....
I recently received notification that DCL was going to increase my Panama Canal Westbound cruise by an additional $100.00 per person. It was stated that this was due to an increase in fees being charged by the Panama Canal Toll agency. What I DON'T have from DCL is the actual pre adjusted breakdown of what my "government taxes and fees" actually were collected against. I understand that DCL has been asked this question by several Panama cruisers and that request has been politely declined by DCL....in other words, you are NOT willing to let us (the passengers) know what exactly we are paying these taxes too. Please provide me with a specific pre increase and post increase breakdown of what my I paid in government taxes and fees, BY AGENCY.My original reservation listed $95.48 as the Gvmt tases and fees. My reservation # is xxxxx. I look forward to getting an answer to this question.

Excellent! If that doesn't elicit a real response, then I'll be even more suspicious that something's amiss. I'll send them another e-mail later this morning too, with a similar request. :thumbsup2
 
Good morning everyone!
I checked our new invoice against the original one, and mine never had a decrease either. I'm up $300, my mom is up $400, etc.

I hope we get some kind of response regarding the taxes. I understand that the tax amounts often change between the time you book and hte actual cruise, and I don't have a problem with that (in fact, I've had two refunds issued on other cruises), but it doesn't seem right what they're doing in this case. I also don't see what the problem is in giving us a breakdown of the tax/port charges. It's not classified, top secret information we're asking for.
 

Well, it is raining again but down south the worst is now over with the flooding, though of course it is just the beginning of a long period of cleaning up for people. Authorities are having a problem getting water to thousands of people. There has been vandalism of the bowsers that temporarily hold fresh water - children opening the tap and letting it run, people urinating in the tank, and people draining them and then selling the water in bottles!! :mad: Human nature in it's worst form. There has also been bad behaviour when bottled water has been delivered.:mad:

There has also been many people helping their neighbours and showing the good side too.

I was in England from July 6 to July 15. There had been a lot of flooding near Sheffield then. I was in Leicershire, Bath area, the Cotwolds and Devon (nr Dartmoor). I had some rainy days, but most were verynice, esp. the day I was in Bath. Now I understand it's all flooded around there. I was all over in the countyside (no A or B roads for me!) I would have had trouble if I was there last week!

Connie
 
Good morning everyone!
I checked our new invoice against the original one, and mine never had a decrease either. I'm up $300, my mom is up $400, etc.

I hope we get some kind of response regarding the taxes. I understand that the tax amounts often change between the time you book and hte actual cruise, and I don't have a problem with that (in fact, I've had two refunds issued on other cruises), but it doesn't seem right what they're doing in this case. I also don't see what the problem is in giving us a breakdown of the tax/port charges. It's not classified, top secret information we're asking for.

I agree! :mad: I just responded to DCL's unsatisfactory explanation with something similar to taysmom's e-mail. I basically told them they didn't answer my question and that I'd like to see the breakdown of specific tax/port charges both before the increase and after. I told them that rather than being charged the $100 per person fee, we should have been charged the difference between what the fee originally was and the $100. Can't wait to see what they say! :rolleyes:
 
Hi everyone! I don't check in very often but, after receiving that PM from John1, I've been kind of following the discussion about the $100 increase.

IMH (and personal... non official ACP) O, what's been done by DCL is unfair and I don't think was the intention of ACP for cruise lines to take advantage of the toll calculation change in this manner.

From what I've seen in DCL responses posted here, seems like they have taken advantage of the move from tonnage calculation to per berth calculation to pass the whole Panama Canal transit toll to the passengers (not to mention that you still haven't seem the breakdown before and after... sure they were already charging you for the PC transit)

Just an idea here based on one of DCL's responses. What is the definition of "Port of Call" on a cruise? If I remember right the Magic is not stopping at any port in Panama (Balboa or Cristobal), is just transiting the Canal. So, if it turns out to be that Panama does not fit the difinition of "Port of Call", how could they be "aligning this per person fee with the government taxes and fees charged by the other ports of call we visit".

They should just charge you for the difference between what they had to pay before and what they will have to pay now. Very simple!!! Good luck!
 
Hi everyone! I don't check in very often but, after receiving that PM from John1, I've been kind of following the discussion about the $100 increase.

IMH (and personal... non official ACP) O, what's been done by DCL is unfair and I don't think was the intention of ACP for cruise lines to take advantage of the toll calculation change in this manner.

From what I've seen in DCL responses posted here, seems like they have taken advantage of the move from tonnage calculation to per berth calculation to pass the whole Panama Canal transit toll to the passengers (not to mention that you still haven't seem the breakdown before and after... sure they were already charging you for the PC transit)

Just an idea here based on one of DCL's responses. What is the definition of "Port of Call" on a cruise? If I remember right the Magic is not stopping at any port in Panama (Balboa or Cristobal), is just transiting the Canal. So, if it turns out to be that Panama does not fit the difinition of "Port of Call", how could they be "aligning this per person fee with the government taxes and fees charged by the other ports of call we visit".
They should just charge you for the difference between what they had to pay before and what they will have to pay now. Very simple!!! Good luck!

Great point! Thank you! :goodvibes
 
I'm not a lawyer but, from a seaman's point of view, it makes all the sense in the world!!! pirate:
 
Hi everyone! I don't check in very often but, after receiving that PM from John1, I've been kind of following the discussion about the $100 increase.

IMH (and personal... non official ACP) O, what's been done by DCL is unfair and I don't think was the intention of ACP for cruise lines to take advantage of the toll calculation change in this manner.

From what I've seen in DCL responses posted here, seems like they have taken advantage of the move from tonnage calculation to per berth calculation to pass the whole Panama Canal transit toll to the passengers (not to mention that you still haven't seem the breakdown before and after... sure they were already charging you for the PC transit)

Just an idea here based on one of DCL's responses. What is the definition of "Port of Call" on a cruise? If I remember right the Magic is not stopping at any port in Panama (Balboa or Cristobal), is just transiting the Canal. So, if it turns out to be that Panama does not fit the difinition of "Port of Call", how could they be "aligning this per person fee with the government taxes and fees charged by the other ports of call we visit".

They should just charge you for the difference between what they had to pay before and what they will have to pay now. Very simple!!! Good luck!


I noticed this too. The wording is careless at best. We certainly do not have a "port of call" in Panama. Unlike other taxes, this is a transit tax (not a charge for dockage or wharfage. I think what they're TRYING to say is that now that the tax was changed to a berth based formula, they can pass it onto the customers just like any port of call. (not any OTHER port of call, as they word it in the email)

These types of emails only prove our point though- that DCL is using the change in calculations to pass the tax directly to us in ADDITION to the formula based taxation that was included in our original fare.

You guys are great detectives- I spent several years practicing admiralty law, and we seem to all be on the same page. I'm planning to write out a long email to DCL this weekend.
 
Do any of you folks who know some of the EB cruisers want to ask them if they'd care to start bombarding DCL with e-mails about this too?

:wave2: Hi all

Excuse me for popping my head in here, for once our thread is kind of slow this morning :rotfl2: . I just wanted a take on your responses to the Panama Tax. We have been doing our own research and complaining. I think we are all on the same wavelength. Prior to 10/07 canal passage was based on Panama Canal/Universal Measurement System (PC/UMS) tonnage, the new tax assessment will be per berth. From some reading the cruise industry had a lot of input on this with the Panama govt to be able to pass it on the the passengers. We do not have a problem with the new tax, it is clearly stated as $100/berth. We all have a problem with Disney for not refunding the previous charge included in our original based on the Panama Canal/Universal Measurement System (PC/UMS) tonnage. A rough guess of this number would be around $200,000 which would be about $80/person based on 2,500 passengers. The exact number requires a complicated formula but we have to be close on this. So the new tax would account for a 20% increase over previous charge to go through the canal. This would indicate that we should really be paying about $20 net.

We are currently phoning and emailing to complain. Keep up the good work.
 
I noticed this too. The wording is careless at best. We certainly do not have a "port of call" in Panama. Unlike other taxes, this is a transit tax (not a charge for dockage or wharfage. I think what they're TRYING to say is that now that the tax was changed to a berth based formula, they can pass it onto the customers just like any port of call. (not any OTHER port of call, as they word it in the email)

These types of emails only prove our point though- that DCL is using the change in calculations to pass the tax directly to us in ADDITION to the formula based taxation that was included in our original fare.

You guys are great detectives- I spent several years practicing admiralty law, and we seem to all be on the same page. I'm planning to write out a long email to DCL this weekend.

Great! With your experience and knowledge backing us up, hopefully we can all stir things up a bit. :thumbsup2
 
:wave2: Hi all

Excuse me for popping my head in here, for once our thread is kind of slow this morning :rotfl2: . I just wanted a take on your responses to the Panama Tax. We have been doing our own research and complaining. I think we are all on the same wavelength. Prior to 10/07 canal passage was based on Panama Canal/Universal Measurement System (PC/UMS) tonnage, the new tax assessment will be per berth. From some reading the cruise industry had a lot of input on this with the Panama govt to be able to pass it on the the passengers. We do not have a problem with the new tax, it is clearly stated as $100/berth. We all have a problem with Disney for not refunding the previous charge included in our original based on the Panama Canal/Universal Measurement System (PC/UMS) tonnage. A rough guess of this number would be around $200,000 which would be about $80/person based on 2,500 passengers. The exact number requires a complicated formula but we have to be close on this. So the new tax would account for a 20% increase over previous charge to go through the canal. This would indicate that we should really be paying about $20 net.

We are currently phoning and emailing to complain. Keep up the good work.

We're totally on the same page!
 
:wave2: Hi all

Excuse me for popping my head in here, for once our thread is kind of slow this morning :rotfl2: . I just wanted a take on your responses to the Panama Tax. We have been doing our own research and complaining. I think we are all on the same wavelength. Prior to 10/07 canal passage was based on Panama Canal/Universal Measurement System (PC/UMS) tonnage, the new tax assessment will be per berth. From some reading the cruise industry had a lot of input on this with the Panama govt to be able to pass it on the the passengers. We do not have a problem with the new tax, it is clearly stated as $100/berth. We all have a problem with Disney for not refunding the previous charge included in our original based on the Panama Canal/Universal Measurement System (PC/UMS) tonnage. A rough guess of this number would be around $200,000 which would be about $80/person based on 2,500 passengers. The exact number requires a complicated formula but we have to be close on this. So the new tax would account for a 20% increase over previous charge to go through the canal. This would indicate that we should really be paying about $20 net.

We are currently phoning and emailing to complain. Keep up the good work.

Welcome! :flower3: We're all in this together, so your input is appreciated. Thanks for the further clarification on how that calculation works. I also had been peeking at your thread to see what you all think of this increase, but wasn't bold enough to post over there to try to rally the forces. But I'm glad to hear you folks are doing the same protesting that we are! Let's all keep it up! :thumbsup2
 
I was in England from July 6 to July 15. There had been a lot of flooding near Sheffield then. I was in Leicershire, Bath area, the Cotwolds and Devon (nr Dartmoor). I had some rainy days, but most were verynice, esp. the day I was in Bath. Now I understand it's all flooded around there. I was all over in the countyside (no A or B roads for me!) I would have had trouble if I was there last week!

Connie

I hope you enjoyed your stay in England. I am sorry the weather was so bad - it has been so miserable! It was a good job you missed these last floods as it was such a large area. There are still thousands without fresh water - just bottles etc being delivered.

:wave2: Hi all

Excuse me for popping my head in here, for once our thread is kind of slow this morning :rotfl2: . I just wanted a take on your responses to the Panama Tax. We have been doing our own research and complaining. I think we are all on the same wavelength. Prior to 10/07 canal passage was based on Panama Canal/Universal Measurement System (PC/UMS) tonnage, the new tax assessment will be per berth. From some reading the cruise industry had a lot of input on this with the Panama govt to be able to pass it on the the passengers. We do not have a problem with the new tax, it is clearly stated as $100/berth. We all have a problem with Disney for not refunding the previous charge included in our original based on the Panama Canal/Universal Measurement System (PC/UMS) tonnage. A rough guess of this number would be around $200,000 which would be about $80/person based on 2,500 passengers. The exact number requires a complicated formula but we have to be close on this. So the new tax would account for a 20% increase over previous charge to go through the canal. This would indicate that we should really be paying about $20 net.

We are currently phoning and emailing to complain. Keep up the good work.

Thanks for popping over with the helpful information. We must all keep up the complaints.
 
Thanks for all the helpful info.....

we have a predraft meeting tonight and we have no baby sitter so we are taking the kids. It's at Hooters but I am hoping to keep them occupied. I at least want to be there for the voting section as I do not want to go to a "bid" league which the commissioner is trying to do.
 
It's a gorgeous day and I can't decide if I should wear them out swimming, have them take a nap or keep them up??

My poor sister goes back to the dr on Monday, I think they are going to have to do surgery....
 
It's a gorgeous day and I can't decide if I should wear them out swimming, have them take a nap or keep them up??

My poor sister goes back to the dr on Monday, I think they are going to have to do surgery....

Swimming means you work, a nap means a rest for you too!

Sorry to hear about your sister.
 
In my latest e-mail to DCL, I said:

Given that I had already referred to the Panama Canal website in my
e-mail to you, suggesting that I look there for the explanation is not
particularly helpful. Indeed, it is their information which has led to
my query.
It is clear from the Panama Canal website that:
Until 30 September 2007 they will assess tolls on the Disney Magic by
tonnage.
From 1 October 2007 they will assess the tolls on a per berth basis, at
the rate of $100 per berth.
The new method of assessment is instead of the old, not as well as. It
is not a new tax, simply a new method of calculating that tax.
DCL should only be charging the difference between the 'old' and the
'new', as you have already incorporated the 'old' tax into the original
cruise cost. By charging the $100 per person, the passengers are being
asked to pay the same tax twice.
I am not asking for any "special consideration". I am asking DCL to
provide a clear explanation, with figures, to justify this additional
$100 charge.
Once again I would ask that you pass this request to the department who
can provide a full explanation.​

Their latest reply:

While I can appreciate your thoughts around the pricing of a Disney
Cruise Line vacation, we are unable to provide an itemized listing of
all the items included in our guest's voyage fare. Regardless of what
costs may have been included in the past, the new per person toll
structure to transit the Panama Canal now allows us to pass this cost
directly on to our guests. Therefore, as previously mentioned, there is
an increase of $100 per person in the Government Taxes & Fees being
assessed for your sailing.​

Aaaaaaaaaaaaghhhhhh!!!!!!!
 
That word 'allow' again!!:mad: That just shows to me that they are pulling a fast one.
 
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