Max Occupancy in DVC Resorts

[plamp]

Originally posted by Dean
I don't think there's any question how people can, and do, get the idea about this issue and a couple of others. I perfectly understand and anyone who is upset should be upset with DVC at this point, assuming "reasonable" use. OTOH, that does not preclude DVC from enforcing the written rules if they chose and while a member might have a valid argument to the contrary, they would not have a legal leg to stand on to force the issue. If push comes to shove, it will be what's in the contract, which is vividly clear. And everyone that bought directly from DVC signed a paper that says that they understand there are no oral representations outside the legal paperwork. Everyone that bought resale were then bound to the original written rules by nature of the deed and sale.

I disagree. Disney by asdvertising and allowing 5 in a one bedroom over such a long period should not be able to enforce the written contract rule of 4 per 1BR. Custom between the parties over time can trump the written agreement. BUT, a DVC member, especially a new one who has purchased DVC relying upon the written contract, as an owner would probably succeed in getting some type of injunction to force Disney to enforce the written rule.

 

[Lesley]

Laurabearz....I love how you use the 2br...what a great idea! Now I have something to look forward to.

I do now feel safe admitting that I had always planned to use the 1br as long as my family of 5 is all comfortable there...I'll probably be the first to get annoyed if we take an air mattress....but the baby sleeps with my dh and I (usually the 4yo too...) and will probably still do that for several years to come. We sleep on a queen at home so we find it quite comfortable.

My older children (9 and 4) are a boy and a girl and have and will continue to share a bed until we decide to go for a 2br....or until the baby sleeps in the pull out with her sister and we put our son on an air mattress. I hope that once we take a 2br they'll at least continue to share the second bedroom....probably not the bed since our girls seem to like sleeping together. Part of the point of a 2br for me would be having a living room that didn't have to be used as a bedroom.

 

[DisneyKidds]

Disney by asdvertising and allowing 5 in a one bedroom over such a long period should not be able to enforce the written contract rule of 4 per 1BR. Custom between the parties over time can trump the written agreement.

Unfortunately, no. Parties to a contract can make whatever agreements or agree to whatever terms they like outside of a contract, but unless the contract is amended it is not something that will ever have real legal standing. If someone decided to make "push come to shove" and "wrote a well placed letter" to "succeed in getting Disney to enforce the written rule" they would most defintely have the legal leg to stand on. They would also be in serious need of a............ah, I better not . Let me just say that anyone who is that focused on this issue has a little too much time on their hands .

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by plamp
I disagree. Disney by asdvertising and allowing 5 in a one bedroom over such a long period should not be able to enforce the written contract rule of 4 per 1BR. Custom between the parties over time can trump the written agreement. BUT, a DVC member, especially a new one who has purchased DVC relying upon the written contract, as an owner would probably succeed in getting some type of injunction to force Disney to enforce the written rule.

I agree with DisneyKidds and the POS has statements in it that essentially say than any variation of issues does not affect any of the rest of the enforcement. Besides, I think it'd be tough to prove this was ever a "rule" for over the limits rather than just individual variation in enforcement, which is what I believe it is even now. But I do understand the sentiment and know it'll be tough for someone who bought with the assurances of a guide or some on this board and then had the rug pulled out from under them.

 

[Sammie]

I am sure allowing 5 in a one bedroom, and changing the contract to make 5 "legal" is somehow tied to liability and insurance. Being that if there were a situation and claims made against Disney say in a fire or hurricane damage. Disney is only going to liable for 4 people in the unit. Number 5 will be out of luck.

By not providing bedding for the 5 person in essance to Disney the 5th person does not exist.

 

[DebbieB]

Originally posted by Sammie
I am sure allowing 5 in a one bedroom, and changing the contract to make 5 "legal" is somehow tied to liability and insurance. Being that if there were a situation and claims made against Disney say in a fire or hurricane damage. Disney is only going to liable for 4 people in the unit. Number 5 will be out of luck.

By not providing bedding for the 5 person in essance to Disney the 5th person does not exist.

I work in insurance. The only way that would be remotely possible is if the injury was caused solely by having the 5th person in the room and you did not list them on your reservation. Considering you can have 5 in a deluxe room or a Port Orleans trundle room less than 1/2 the size, I don't know how an injury would be traced to "overcrowding" in a 1 bedroom. I also don't believe fire codes are involved, considering the total square footage of the room. Plus you have at least 2 possible exits (counting the porch/balcony), which you don't have in the POR room. It's very difficult to get out of a liability claim unless you can prove total negligence on the part of the injured party.

 

[Deb & Bill]

Originally posted by DebbieB
I work in insurance. The only way that would be remotely possible is if the injury was caused solely by having the 5th person in the room and you did not list them on your reservation. Considering you can have 5 in a deluxe room or a Port Orleans trundle room less than 1/2 the size, I don't know how an injury would be traced to "overcrowding" in a 1 bedroom. I also don't believe fire codes are involved, considering the total square footage of the room. Plus you have at least 2 possible exits (counting the porch/balcony), which you don't have in the POR room. It's very difficult to get out of a liability claim unless you can prove total negligence on the part of the injured party.

Fire codes require a certain amount of space for egress, corridor widths, number of exits, etc, figure into this. The actual amount of space in the room does not, except to figure the distance to the means of egress from the most remote corner of the space. So if you have a 100 square foot room with three bunks in it and the appropriate amount of width and distance to the exit corridor, you could be more in agreement with the code in that small space than in a one bedroom with five people in it. Since the balcony does not allow you to exit safely from the unit (without a stair from the balcony), it cannot be counted as an exit just like windows don't really count for exits.

 

[rinkwide]

Someone pass me the Advil.

 

[Sammie]

Originally posted by DebbieB
I work in insurance. The only way that would be remotely possible is if the injury was caused solely by having the 5th person in the room and you did not list them on your reservation. Considering you can have 5 in a deluxe room or a Port Orleans trundle room less than 1/2 the size, I don't know how an injury would be traced to "overcrowding" in a 1 bedroom. I also don't believe fire codes are involved, considering the total square footage of the room. Plus you have at least 2 possible exits (counting the porch/balcony), which you don't have in the POR room. It's very difficult to get out of a liability claim unless you can prove total negligence on the part of the injured party.

That is not what I meant. I meant if there were a fire or such and someone wanted to sue Disney, I am not sure Disney can be held accountable for the safety and well being of more than 4 in the room. I did not mean that having 5 in the room would contribute to anything.

 

[Firebug]

I think the bottom line is this. Disney wants to make money. If they feel relaxing a rule is going to allow them to sell more units. Disney is going to do it. In the end they will weigh how many complain verses how much money they can make selling more units. I am betting making money is going to win out. Just because something is a rule or even a law doesn’t always matter. The rule or law stays on the books. It is just not enforced because it would not be popular or doesn’t meet the agenda of the enforcing authority. I could give examples until dooms day. Public opinion is what seems to dictate what happens in reality.

Firebug

 

[CaptainMidnight]

Personally, I do not think DVC ever intended to hold strictly to the guideline of 4 in a one bedroom as a hard and fast unbreakable rule. They put the most conservative position in the documents in case they ever had to fall back on them regarding providing bedding, etc., just like lots of the cover your rear end clauses they put in the documents like selling off DVC resorts. Guides have always known this was not going to be a strict 4 only in a one bedroom hard and fast unbreaable rule, so they have provided appropriate factual information to purchasers accordingly. I think most rational people here recognize it as well. They may not agree with it if it doesn't fit thier own family's personal needs, but my opinion is they recognize the most conservative worst case senarios were written into the documents in case DVC ever needed it, many with never any intention to really use.

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by CaptainMidnight
Personally, I do not think DVC ever intended to hold strictly to the guideline of 4 in a one bedroom as a hard and fast unbreakable rule. They put the most conservative position in the documents in case they ever had to fall back on them regarding providing bedding, etc., just like lots of the cover your rear end clauses they put in the documents like selling off DVC resorts. Guides have always known this was not going to be a strict 4 only in a one bedroom hard and fast unbreaable rule, so they have provided appropriate factual information to purchasers accordingly. I think most rational people here recognize it as well.

That position would not be consistent with timeshare standards. 2-4 in a studio, 4 in a 1 BR and SIX in a 2 BR is standard in the industry. Even those that will sleep more, only technically trade for the above number in most cases. But the fact remains that DVC hasn't been consistent in enforcement for whatever reason.

 

[OneMoreTry]

I think DVC would serve us best by focusing on keeping smoke out of smoke free rooms.

I wouldn't mind 8 neat, courteous and well-mannered people in a 1BR as much as 2 noisy, inconsiderate, rude slobs in a Grand Villa. The latter use more resources and waste more of my dues dollars. Not to mention the aggravation of having to look at them.

 

[DVCcollector]

We have put 3 adults and 3 kids in our 1 bedroom and have never had a problem.

 

[Deb & Bill]

What you can and what you should do are two different things.

 

[rinkwide]

We put 7 adults and a miniature horse in a 2 bedroom and had a big problem.

 

[DrTomorrow]

Originally posted by rinkwide
We put 7 adults and a miniature horse in a 2 bedroom and had a big problem.

It's no wonder - according to the POS and the contracts we all signed, a 2BR unit has a capacity of 8 adults -OR- 6 adults and one miniature horse.

rinkwide, when you bought into DVC, you should have made sure that your livery needs could be met within stated occupancy limits.

 

[CaptainMidnight]

Originally posted by DrTomorrow
It's no wonder - according to the POS and the contracts we all signed, a 2BR unit has a capacity of 8 adults -OR- 6 adults and one miniature horse.

rinkwide, when you bought into DVC, you should have made sure that your livery needs could be met within stated occupancy limits.

His guide probably told him 1 miniture and 1 full size horse were OK. As long as MS agrees......

 

[DVCcollector]

My wife and I take the master my mom and my oldest use the inflateable queen size and the 2 youngest ones sleep on the pullout. The airbed inflates in 3 minutes and deflates in 3 so we blow it up at nihgt and deflate it in the morning. This way we have no space issues etc. Now the kids are 8, 3 and 2 and everyone was on the reservation.

 

[laceemouse]

Collector, you must have one young, cool mom. My mom is 75, and no way would I make her sleep or an air matress, or even really a pull out. And none of my kids would want to sleep with granny! I think since your youngest 2 are so little things are working, but I think you will change your mind as they get older. They no longer bath together and run around naked in front of each other as puberty gets near....you have been warned. Enjoy the little ones while you can!