Marty Sklar and Submarine Ride at DL

[randytenn]

I was on a Disney Cruise, and Marty Sklar was the guest speaker on board. After listening to his speech on Imagineering (Very informative), he opened up the floor for questions. After the usual "What was Walt Like?" and "What is your favorite ride?", I decided to push a bit.

My question was phrased as follows:

"Having been born and raised in California, Disneyland is very near and dear to my heart. What, if any, are the future plans for tommorrowland, to bring it back to it's former luster, as well as the submarine lagoon?"

Marty gave a very diplomatic answer to Tommorrowland, citing the $70 million dollar refurb of Space Mountain, and the Buzz Lightyear ride. Nothing new there.

Then he talked about the submarine lagoon. He said that he couldn't speak of anything specific, but said that when they closed the ride, he told the press that if it never reopened, he would throw himself across Harbor Blvd. He said he has not plans on throwing himself across Harbor Blvd.

He further stated that he ordered an engineering inspection made of the submarines, themselves, to find their useful life limit. He said that he was informed that they would be good for another 40 years.

So, take it for what it's worth. Interpret away!

 

[Sarangel]

Marty's been trying to get something going with the subs for quite a while now. We heard similar rumblings from him 3 years ago when we heard him speak at Disneyland. I don't think the problem is with Imagineering, but rather with management's approval of whatever Imagineering can come up with.

Sarangel

 

[WDWHound]

Originally posted by Sarangel
. I don't think the problem is with Imagineering, but rather with management's approval of whatever Imagineering can come up with.

Sarangel

Yup. In fact, someone from Imagineering once put up a sign by the lagoon which said something like "Coming soon, Journey to Atlantis". Management had it taken down within 24 hours.

 

[walt's assistant]

Go Marty!!!!

Shutting down 20K was the one of the most shortsighted things that was done to the MK since it opened in 1971.

Whatever the issues were/are...and I've heard everything from "the lagoon is leaking" to "the propane gas pipes that fuel the subs were a danger"...management should have FIXED the problem.

20K dates back to what Walt envisioned for MK.

Disney management needs to set things right.


WA

 

[OnWithTheShow]

This post is actually about Disneyland's 20k.

 

[randytenn]

Here's the proof of my talk with Sklar (actually, just bragging that I got a picture with him )

 

[ralphd]

Originally posted by Sarangel
Marty's been trying to get something going with the subs for quite a while now. We heard similar rumblings from him 3 years ago when we heard him speak at Disneyland. I don't think the problem is with Imagineering, but rather with management's approval of whatever Imagineering can come up with.

Sarangel

Heard cost is the problem.

ralphd

 

[walt's assistant]

Originally posted by OnWithTheShow
This post is actually about Disneyland's 20k.

OK, thanks.

Toss in WDW's 20K, too.


WA

 

[dletz]

I was told that they have one big problem in reopening the ride at DL. They have it listed as close instead of down. My understanding is that by closing it, in order to reopen the ride, they must bring the ride up to current standards as if the ride was build today.

Also they use the area for loading the monorail, and a store for Autopia, not to mention the exit of Autopia feeds in here. Could you imagine the mess of having Subs, Monorail, and autopia all exiting at one tiny spot and have a place for a line for the ride too.

 

[WDWHound]

Originally posted by dletz
Also they use the area for loading the monorail, and a store for Autopia, not to mention the exit of Autopia feeds in here. Could you imagine the mess of having Subs, Monorail, and autopia all exiting at one tiny spot and have a place for a line for the ride too.

The Autopia store is in the old Subs queue area. The monorail and autopia queues have always been where they are. In short, all they would have to do is move or eliminate the store and put the subs queue in its place and everything would be exactly as it was before the subs closed.

 

[SpaceMountain_uk]

eliminate the store

eliminate a store in Disneyland!!!!!now that is crazy LOL

 

[ChrislovesMinnie]

This was a fantastic ride and nothing they have can take its place. Hopefully some day it can come back for our kids to enjoy and experience it. If not, we only have memories and the fact that we had the chance to experience it.

 

[I am JEN]

I dare to say, that the subs were my fondest childhood memory of the parks.....I live for the day I hear talk of definatly re-opening the rides!

 

[indigo]

Then he talked about the submarine lagoon. He said that he couldn't speak of anything specific, but said that when they closed the ride, he told the press that if it never reopened, he would throw himself across Harbor Blvd. He said he has not plans on throwing himself across Harbor Blvd.

That wasn't Marty's exact quote. But it's close enough. He promised to throw himself across harbor blvd if they ever decided to close the subs. Which they have... but still no Imagineer VP Speed Bumps on Harbor.... I know Marty's taking lots of kidding about this one.

So let me report some good news. Eisner, Ouimet, and Eggers (and possibly Braverman) were spotted at the edge of the Sub Lagoon gesturing expansively and talking about the lagoon's future. (Reported on LaughingPlace.com's Community Boards.)

-Indigo

 

[crusader]

Am I the only one who thought the subs were lame?

They had the worst capacity. They took forever to load into what felt like a glorified tin can to merely take you for a ride around a big fish tank with cloudy water and plastic accessories.

I don't want to see this attraction restored unless it's completely overhauled with great special effects and a phenomenal ride experience equipped with excellent vehicles.

Not sure what that means for the old sardine packed psuedo-floatation devices but there should be a place designated to try them out for nostalgia's sake. Living Seas anyone?

 

[LeftCoaster]

Originally posted by crusader
Am I the only one who thought the subs were lame?

They had the worst capacity. They took forever to load into what felt like a glorified tin can to merely take you for a ride around a big fish tank with cloudy water and plastic accessories.

I don't want to see this attraction restored unless it's completely overhauled with great special effects and a phenomenal ride experience equipped with excellent vehicles.

Not sure what that means for the old sardine packed psuedo-floatation devices but there should be a place designated to try them out for nostalgia's sake. Living Seas anyone?

you're not the only one. =) I also agree about restoring it only if they really overhaul and update it. What I do miss about them and the area is that Tomorrowland used to be so alive with all of this kinetic energy. You had subs, autopia, monorail, rocket jets, people mover all moving around on various levels. Now, you're left with autopia and a monorail (if it's running and not broken down)

 

[crusader]

What I do miss about them and the area is that Tomorrowland used to be so alive with all of this kinetic energy.

Good point. I'm not sure where exactly they were located at DL but at WDW it was in Fantasyland. That land was always alive with energy from the moment the park opened. The queue area for the subs was outside and pretty inadequate. Within the first hour, the line would become extremely long.

Tomorrowland was much more tranquil. The WedWay and the Rockets were the only visible rides which gave this area life - particularly in the morning. Space Mountain being the biggest draw, kept us indoors and out of sight. The other attractions were all pretty much show oriented.

What I liked most about the 20K attraction was the look of it. This attraction always captured my attention because it had tremendous visible appeal. I would hope this allure becomes a critical factor in any redesign.

 

[MrsJackSparrow]

Just back from WDW Sunday night. From what we saw on the Dumbo ride, the 20K lagoon is completely dug up, construction vehicles in place behind the walled area (visible from flying elephant), and piles of earth all over the place. So very sad. 20K was a cool ride that I wish my children could have experienced.

A question: Was the ride handicap-accessible? Just remembering what it was like when I last rode (in the 80s), loading was down tiny metal stairs into cramped sub, on pop-up metal seats. How ADA-friendly was this ride? I'm thinking not, and a revamp to come up to ADA standards would be very difficult, IMO.

 

[Mooobooks]

You are definitely not the only one who thinks the sub ride is lousy. It was great when it opened in the late 1950s, but it's so pathetically outdated that it's ridiculous. Think of the level of realism in your ride experience at Indiana Jones, and compare that to the claustrophic sub where you see obviously fake fish obviously tethered to the ground. It was a lousy ride!
If you want to see the same thing done VERY well, take a look at 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea in Tokyo DisneySea, which solves a lot of the problems because it is "dry for wet," meaning it only LOOKS wet, and is actually dry outside the ride vehicles.

 

[SueM in MN]

Originally posted by MrsJackSparrow

A question: Was the ride handicap-accessible? Just remembering what it was like when I last rode (in the 80s), loading was down tiny metal stairs into cramped sub, on pop-up metal seats. How ADA-friendly was this ride? I'm thinking not, and a revamp to come up to ADA standards would be very difficult, IMO.

It was not handicapped friendly at all (it was hardly easy for people without disabilities to get in).
If they had just repaired/repainted, etc, they would not have been required by the ADA to do anything to the ride. The ADA only comes into play for rides that are significantly altered or are new. And, even if it was significantly altered, they would have been subject to the "technical infeasibility" provisions of the law that says if it's not possible to comply with the ADA, you just have to comply to the extent that is feasible.

Quote from ADA law posted at http://www.access-board.gov/recreation/final.htm
Where an existing amusement ride is modified in a way that does not change the ride’s structural or operational characteristics to the extent that the ride’s performance differs from that specified by the manufacturer’s or original design criteria, the amusement ride is not required to comply with 15.1.1. Routine maintenance, painting, and changing of story boards are examples of activities that do not constitute an alteration.

As with other elements or facilities subject to the alterations provisions in ADAAG, "technical infeasibility" applies to alterations of amusement rides. In this case, compliance with the technical provisions is required except where the nature of the existing ride makes it virtually impossible to comply fully. In these circumstances, the alteration should provide the maximum accessibility feasible.

Here's another link for anyone interested in ride accessibility.