Marijuana use? Legalize it?

[dcentity2000]

Ask your doctor which one of these is least likely to kill you, based on all current medical science.

Including suicide, cannabis induces the most deaths (Priory), when talking about direct deaths as oppoesed to death through proxy.

Now ask your congressman why it's the only one that is illegal.

As to "drug induced psychosis...it can happen with any drug, not just cannabis. Marijuana is considerably less harmful to you than alcohol or tobacco, both of which are, of course, completely legal.

Marijuana is completely non-addictive. The only way it can be called "addictive" is in the same way that surfing this website is: emotionally or mentally. There are no physical "withdrawl" symptoms from ceasing marijuana use.

Completely wrong I'm sorry to say

Cannabis has the highest psychosis rate amongst drugs, even the heavy ones, and the gap is very significant (Maudsley, Bedlam, Priory).

It's been labelled a "gateway" drug. In my experience, that's also a myth. I know quite a few people who have used marijuana, and never had any desire to try any of the actual "hard" drugs that are out there.

Then, there's the legal angle. Marijuana offenders are almost never violent, and the few times they are it's usually do to some other factor. If there is such a thing as a "mean stoner" - as there is plenty of evidence of "mean drunks" out there - then I've neither heard of it nor seen it.

The anti-marijuana movement is made of nothing but fear and ignorance. The simple truth is, we should never need a reason to "make something legal" in this country. The evidence against marijuana is certainly a lot thinner than that against alcohol and tobacco, so you simply cannot justify being against legalization unless you are also for the prohibition of both cigarettes and alcohol.

Ignorance includes trying to defend a lethal drug whilst quoting no medical sources of any significance. Find something from, say, the Priory Hospital that praises cannabis.



Rich::

 

[DawnCt1]

Including suicide, cannabis induces the most deaths (Priory), when talking about direct deaths as oppoesed to death through proxy.



Completely wrong I'm sorry to say

Cannabis has the highest psychosis rate amongst drugs, even the heavy ones, and the gap is very significant (Maudsley, Bedlam, Priory).



Ignorance includes trying to defend a lethal drug whilst quoting no medical sources of any significance. Find something from, say, the Priory Hospital that praises cannabis.



Rich::

They can't Rich, because it doesn't exist Good job. The greatest enemy is the one that is underestimated.

 

[wvrevy]

FACT: In 1972, after reviewing the scientific evidence, the National Commission on Marihuana and Drug Abuse concluded that while marijuana was not entirely safe, its dangers had been grossly overstated. Since then, researchers have conducted thousands of studies of humans, animals, and cell cultures. None reveal any findings dramatically different from those described by the National Commission in 1972. In 1995, based on thirty years of scientific research editors of the British medical journal Lancet concluded that "the smoking of cannabis, even long term, is not harmful to health."

FACT: Marijuana has been shown to be effective in reducing the nausea induced by cancer chemotherapy, stimulating appetite in AIDS patients, and reducing intraocular pressure in people with glaucoma. There is also appreciable evidence that marijuana reduces muscle spasticity in patients with neurological disorders. A synthetic capsule is available by prescription, but it is not as effective as smoked marijuana for many patients. Pure THC may also produce more unpleasant psychoactive side effects than smoked marijuana. Many people use marijuana as a medicine today, despite its illegality. In doing so, they risk arrest and imprisonment.

FACT: Most people who smoke marijuana smoke it only occasionally. A small minority of Americans - less than 1 percent - smoke marijuana on a daily basis. An even smaller minority develop a dependence on marijuana. Some people who smoke marijuana heavily and frequently stop without difficulty. Others seek help from drug treatment professionals. Marijuana does not cause physical dependence.

FACT: Marijuana does not cause people to use hard drugs. What the gateway theory presents as a causal explanation is a statistic association between common and uncommon drugs, an association that changes over time as different drugs increase and decrease in prevalence. Marijuana is the most popular illegal drug in the United States today. Therefore, people who have used less popular drugs such as heroin, cocaine, and LSD, are likely to have also used marijuana. Most marijuana users never use any other illegal drug. Indeed, for the large majority of people, marijuana is a terminus rather than a gateway drug.

FACT: None of the medical tests currently used to detect brain damage in humans have found harm from marijuana, even from long term high-dose use. An early study reported brain damage in rhesus monkeys after six months exposure to high concentrations of marijuana smoke. In a recent, more carefully conducted study, researchers found no evidence of brain abnormality in monkeys that were forced to inhale the equivalent of four to five marijuana cigarettes every day for a year. The claim that marijuana kills brain cells is based on a speculative report dating back a quarter of a century that has never been supported by any scientific study.

FACT: There is no convincing scientific evidence that marijuana causes psychological damage or mental illness in either teenagers or adults. Some marijuana users experience psychological distress following marijuana ingestion, which may include feelings of panic, anxiety, and paranoia. Such experiences can be frightening, but the effects are temporary. With very large doses, marijuana can cause temporary toxic psychosis. This occurs rarely, and almost always when marijuana is eaten rather than smoked. Marijuana does not cause profound changes in people's behavior.

*Lynn Zimmer and John Morgan. Marijuana Myths, Marijuana Facts: A Review of the Scientific Evidence, (New York: The Lindesmith Center, 1997).


Again...all of the above is fact. Is it driven by political idealogy ? Quite possibly. But so are many "medical studies" that reveal no more truth than a political push poll.

I'm sorry Rich, but you are just plain wrong on this one.

 

[dcentity2000]

They can't Rich, because it doesn't exist Good job. The greatest enemy is the one that is underestimated.

I completely agree.

My advice to all concerned is to contact an expert in the field for their opinion, to contact the Priory or to research some papers on the internet; a good place to start is with Professor Robin Murray, probably the world leader in terms of drug induced conditions. Don't rely on anecdotal evidence and don't allow "experience" to skew your objectivity.



Rich::

 

[dcentity2000]

FACT: In 1972, after reviewing the scientific evidence, the National Commission on Marihuana and Drug Abuse concluded that while marijuana was not entirely safe, its dangers had been grossly overstated. Since then, researchers have conducted thousands of studies of humans, animals, and cell cultures. None reveal any findings dramatically different from those described by the National Commission in 1972. In 1995, based on thirty years of scientific research editors of the British medical journal Lancet concluded that "the smoking of cannabis, even long term, is not harmful to health."

FACT: Marijuana has been shown to be effective in reducing the nausea induced by cancer chemotherapy, stimulating appetite in AIDS patients, and reducing intraocular pressure in people with glaucoma. There is also appreciable evidence that marijuana reduces muscle spasticity in patients with neurological disorders. A synthetic capsule is available by prescription, but it is not as effective as smoked marijuana for many patients. Pure THC may also produce more unpleasant psychoactive side effects than smoked marijuana. Many people use marijuana as a medicine today, despite its illegality. In doing so, they risk arrest and imprisonment.

FACT: Most people who smoke marijuana smoke it only occasionally. A small minority of Americans - less than 1 percent - smoke marijuana on a daily basis. An even smaller minority develop a dependence on marijuana. Some people who smoke marijuana heavily and frequently stop without difficulty. Others seek help from drug treatment professionals. Marijuana does not cause physical dependence.

FACT: Marijuana does not cause people to use hard drugs. What the gateway theory presents as a causal explanation is a statistic association between common and uncommon drugs, an association that changes over time as different drugs increase and decrease in prevalence. Marijuana is the most popular illegal drug in the United States today. Therefore, people who have used less popular drugs such as heroin, cocaine, and LSD, are likely to have also used marijuana. Most marijuana users never use any other illegal drug. Indeed, for the large majority of people, marijuana is a terminus rather than a gateway drug.

FACT: None of the medical tests currently used to detect brain damage in humans have found harm from marijuana, even from long term high-dose use. An early study reported brain damage in rhesus monkeys after six months exposure to high concentrations of marijuana smoke. In a recent, more carefully conducted study, researchers found no evidence of brain abnormality in monkeys that were forced to inhale the equivalent of four to five marijuana cigarettes every day for a year. The claim that marijuana kills brain cells is based on a speculative report dating back a quarter of a century that has never been supported by any scientific study.

FACT: There is no convincing scientific evidence that marijuana causes psychological damage or mental illness in either teenagers or adults. Some marijuana users experience psychological distress following marijuana ingestion, which may include feelings of panic, anxiety, and paranoia. Such experiences can be frightening, but the effects are temporary. With very large doses, marijuana can cause temporary toxic psychosis. This occurs rarely, and almost always when marijuana is eaten rather than smoked. Marijuana does not cause profound changes in people's behavior.

*Lynn Zimmer and John Morgan. Marijuana Myths, Marijuana Facts: A Review of the Scientific Evidence, (New York: The Lindesmith Center, 1997).


Again...all of the above is fact. Is it driven by political idealogy ? Quite possibly. But so are many "medical studies" that reveal no more truth than a political push poll.

I'm sorry Rich, but you are just plain wrong on this one.

So, you're attacking the Priory's evidence with a book? You're telling the professors in the best hospitals in the world they are wrong?!

Terrible source, terrible try, tragic result.

However, I'm gonna head off to bed now 'cause sleep is the best medicine. I hope you won't try cannabis and I hope you'll do some proper research.

For now... nite nite



Rich::

 

[MrsNick]

So, alcohol was illegal during a period in our country's history known as Prohibition. Guess who benefitted from that? Mobsters like Al Capone who were able to make lots of money on distributing alcohol on the black market, as marijuana is now distributed on the black market. So, making alcohol illegal contributed to an enormous amount of violent crime.

Although alcohol is now legal, I don't see that the majority of Americans abuse it. Some do, and that's their choice. For example, although it would be legal for me to drink as much alcohol as I want, I don't. I need to be a functioning and productive member of society. I need to keep my wits about me so I can keep my job.

Similarly, marijuana could be made legal without the majority of Americans suddenly taking up smoking pot as their favorite hobby. Additionally, if places of employment continue to screen for drugs, even if they are legal, and made it a condition of employment that you could not test positive for drugs, then I think that would be enough of an incentive for many people to not use them.

Although alcohol is legal, many companies to provide substance abuse counseling services, or make them available, to people who have an addiction to alcohol. They give them one chance to clean up their act, and if they don't, they're let go.

Do I think that teens should not smoke pot? You bet. I also know that many teens drink alcohol even though the legal age of consumption is 21. People who want to drink illegally will do so, and people who want to smoke illegally will do so, too.

Just read a report that showed that of those teens who thought that their parents would flip out if they discovered that their child had used marijuana were loads less likely to use it than those teens who thought their parents wouldn't care, or wouldn't react all that much.

So, if you want to protect kids from abusing alcohol and drugs, parents must communicate with their kids clearly about the dangers of those substances and about how angry and disappointed they would be if their child used them. And also about the dire consequences if their kids used (Don't I know some parents who threaten military school? )

Anyway, I think that keeping marijuana illegal just contributes to organized crime and to criminals getting rich off of the system of black markets that have developed around this "prohibition."

I don't deny that there are negative effects from using marijuana. But I also don't fool myself into believing that there aren't negative effects from using alcohol. How many people have died from cirrhosis of the liver, or from acute alcoholism? How many people have been injured or died from someone who got behind the wheel after ingesting alcohol?

I just feel that people need to take responsibility for themselves.

 

[MamaLema]

While I don't use it personally, I feel it should be legal, but sold only to persons over the age of 21 like alcohol is. Our prisons are way over crowded and we can't even keep pedophiles locked up right now. I say, clear those cells and make room for the real "Bad Guys."

I completly understand your point. But I'm scared that if that takes effect, then pretty soon they'll be legalizing crack, etc. because of jail overcrowding, and where does it end?

 

[wvrevy]

So, you're attacking the Priory's evidence with a book? You're telling the professors in the best hospitals in the world they are wrong?!

Terrible source, terrible try, tragic result.

However, I'm gonna head off to bed now 'cause sleep is the best medicine. I hope you won't try cannabis and I hope you'll do some proper research.

For now... nite nite



Rich::

I don't need a doctor to tell me marijuana isn't physically addictive, Rich. I've experienced it. I used to smoke back in my "wilder" days before the Air Force, and quit cold turkey. I'm telling you, there were no withdrawl symptoms. Period.

I've also got some news for you, Rich...I think quite a few medical people would argue with Shelton Hospital in Shrewsbury being called "the best hospital in the world." I've read that study. It's important to note the caveat he puts in the very first paragraph:

It is unusual for such a psychosis to occur without other drugs being involved to some extent and so it is difficult to tease out the differences between the effects of Cannabis and other drugs.

You keep quoting "the Priory" as if they are somehow plugged into "Higher Knowledge", but the simple fact is that there is very little evidence outside of this one study you seem so fond of to back any of it up. Sorry, but one study does not equal scientific fact.

And you might want to look up the word "research", Rich...One source doesn't cut it.

"By any of the major criteria of harm - mortality, morbidity, toxicity, addictiveness and relationship with crime - [cannabis] is less harmful than any of the other major illicit drugs, or than alcohol or tobacco."
Report of the British Police Foundation
March 2000

"Estimates suggest that from 20 to 50 million Americans routinely, albeit illegally, smoke marijuana without the benefit of direct medical supervision. Yet, despite this long history of use and the extraordinarily high numbers of social smokers, there are simply no credible reports to suggest that consuming marijuana has caused a single death. By contrast, aspirin, a commonly used, over-the-counter medicine, causes hundreds of deaths each year."
DEA Administrative Law Judge Francis L. Young
Opinion and Recommended Ruling, Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law

 

[MosMom]

Alcohol can cause psychosis. My mother lives in a constant state of alcoholic psychosis. She is also succumbing to alcoholic neuropathy. Alcohol is rotting her brain basically. She experiences MS like symptoms and will die a similar death. Alcohol robs her body from vitamins she needs to thrive so she basically becomes malnourished as well so she can also die from a similar affliction that African children die from. Let's not even get started on her liver.

Alcohol attacks and kills every organ in your body.

 

[ZachnElli]

Including suicide, cannabis induces the most deaths (Priory), when talking about direct deaths as oppoesed to death through proxy.




::

Now this I don't believe. Where are the stats on this? If you include suicide for cannabis, then you have to include it to alcohol and tobacco use too.

 

[Kae]

Frankly, our government has so many other more critical issues to address right now. I don't want to see a lot of time and money being spent focusing on legalizing pot.

I agree it would be a lot of time & money. They are not going to just say ok it is legal. There will be level of intoxication just like alcohol. So if you are suspected of being under the influence you will be tested(urine, Blood, or Oral fluid) there will be cut off levels such as 0.8 but this will be in ng per mL. I also believe accidents in the work place will rise & so will the insurance for the business. Costs up for us.

Kae

 

[dcentity2000]

Guess who's back?

I have a simple challenge for the pro-psychotropical substance mob.

Quote a source that isn't a book. Make it a hospital or psychiatric institution with a good name, such as the Priory, the Maudsley or Bedlam. In fact, make it one of those since they are the best institutions in the world (by reputation.)

If you fail to find supporting evidence, contact one of the doctors, say, Professor Robin Murray and talk it over.

You could learn a lot.

(Who wants to bet no-one will post matter from the sources mentioned?)

[EDIT]: Some useful links for the challenge. The NHS Maudsley Hospital (AKA King's College Hospital Psychiatric Institution) website is here. The Priory's website can be found here.

What you will find is that for about 9 in ten people, Cannabis is not too harmful. It increases the risk of schizophrenia, but only by about 3 times. For one in ten (the susceptible group), Cannabis is one of the worst drugs you can take.

But don't take it from me - call one of the centres. I DARE YOU.



Rich::

 

[dcentity2000]

I don't need a doctor to tell me marijuana isn't physically addictive, Rich. I've experienced it. I used to smoke back in my "wilder" days before the Air Force, and quit cold turkey. I'm telling you, there were no withdrawl symptoms. Period.

Perhaps your experience has skewed your view. I know that Junior had withdrawl symptoms, as did a lad named Jim Pracy; it was why the latter committed suicide, sadly.

I've also got some news for you, Rich...I think quite a few medical people would argue with Shelton Hospital in Shrewsbury being called "the best hospital in the world." I've read that study. It's important to note the caveat he puts in the very first paragraph:

You know, I was referred to that place for an illness. A serious illness. And you know what? They got it dead wrong. In BIG way. Then they referred me "up" (I quote the doctor) to the Maudsley. I'm now much better and am returning to University. You'll understand if I don't want to discuss the gory details, as so to speak.

You keep quoting "the Priory" as if they are somehow plugged into "Higher Knowledge", but the simple fact is that there is very little evidence outside of this one study you seem so fond of to back any of it up. Sorry, but one study does not equal scientific fact.

Have you been living under a rock? There are multiple corroborating reports to look at. The Priory is also a world renowned institution that should be treated with respect, not dismissal.

And you might want to look up the word "research", Rich...One source doesn't cut it.

Multiple sources dear, multiple sources. And good ones, too, unlike your quantity over quality approach. I'm afraid you are "dead" wrong.

However.

It is not my job to ensure that you don't spread problems and foes about the place and there is probably nothing I can say to reset your opinion back onto the right track; in fact, I don't believe that even the word of God would sway you.

That's the trouble. You believe something with such a passion you become unhinged from objectivity. I have seen huge wards full of screaming people, all there due to cannabis. I have met the victims, talked to the families, done some independent research myself and talked personally to many of the best doctors in the world over this.

But you won't hear it, will you?



Rich::

 

[mickman1962]

dcentity2000

You are trying to convince people with first hand knowledge of both pot and alcohol. While you can quote all the studies you want (you can find a study to back up any point of view) you will not change the mind of anyone who's been there done that. I know what alcohol has done to me, I know what pot has done to me and I know what tobacco has done to me. With many more years under my belt now i wish I had just stuck with pot and never moved on to cigs and booze. If pot were legalized I'd probably start again.

 

[wvrevy]

Rich, nobody is arguing that marijuana is actually good for you. I'm sorry you seem to have had a negative experience with friends over using. But scientific data does not support the horror stories you are trying to pass off as reality. According to the National Institute of Health, about 14 million Americans smoked marijuana on a regular basis in 2002 (the latest year for which I could find data). If your "study" had any basis in fact, roughly 1.4 million of them would have had psychotic episodes because of it.

Rich, can't you see that if that were even remotely close to fact, it would be advertised on television at every opportunity? If "Reefer Madness" were not so ludicrous, the government, in it's "war on drugs", would be using those statistics and stories to frighten the public into staying away from the drug.

I'm sorry, but you've simply gotten some bad information. I'd suggest using some source other than one obviously biased study and, as you cautioned everyone else, not allowing your one experience to color your judgement. As I and many others have stated, we are not speaking from knowledge gained through someone else's experience, but from our own. Trust me, I'd recognize a withdrawl symptom if I saw one, having successfully stopped smoking cigarettes....twice. There simply is NO comparison.

Here is the NIH's web page that talks about the hazards of smoking marijuana. I'd suggest you read it thoroughly, as even though it states that there are many negative effects, it is quite clear that the vast majority of them are short term, and relatively mild. It also states, quite clearly, that while some people may become "addicted" to use, the addiction is not a physical one, but rather like that to gambling. It is a mental and emotional addiction, not a physical one, such as to nicotine or even caffeine. (that is actually in my own words, not theirs...the gambling reference is not on their site)

National Institute of Drug Abuse

One last thing. You are so quick to dismiss everyone else's experience due to your own, mostly due to a suicide. Again, I submit that if someone commits suicide, it is no more due to marijuana use than it is to their habit of listening to old Ozzy Osbourne music. But when people lose a friend or loved one to suicide, they often will grasp at any available "straw" to help explain the unexplainable. Just something to think about.

 

[mick67]

Now this I don't believe. Where are the stats on this? If you include suicide for cannabis, then you have to include it to alcohol and tobacco use too.

don't forget aspirin, robitussin and riddilin.

 

[Papa Deuce]

My buddiy's best friend is a psychologist of some fame. In fact he's won tons of awards, grants, and whatnot. He is about 35 years old. I don't know all the particulars as I barely know the guy. I know that he has had lots of dealings with people who have used drugs. He teaches at the University of Penn, I think.

Ya know what? He smokes pot.

 

[slo]

I voted for:

Legal for medical purposes only

 

[Charade]

Legalize pot, we could fund the war with the taxes!

Huh? I thought pot smoking hippies were pacifists. Do you really think they'd let there pot smoking (tax) dollars be used for a war? Any war???

 

[Mamu]

I really have no preferences either way. I have never used it. I get a high just on living. Do not need a stimulant to have a good time.

I think people who use it feel it relaxes them and eases their pain.