Marathon Weekend 2017!

[Barca33Runner]

AGREED!

But I don't think they will do this, because I don't think they actually check a good chunk of the submissions. In the meantime I am going to be armed with printouts/screen shots in case something doesn't look right.

I'm certainly not holding my breath that they will do anything (doing nothing is so much easier!) and also have a fair bit of cynicism about whether they actually check the submissions. I just don't like the estimated pace/finish time system since it is so easy to lie; but it's also much easier for them to implement so I know it will likely continue to be their method of choice.

 

[FFigawi]

Obviously the best case scenario is to have 3 or 4 bibs - one for each of the races (or 5/10K, Half, and Full). But that would cost extra in bib allocation and then potentially more headaches with people wearing the wrong bibs to each of the races (more bibs = more mistakes).

My opinion would be that runDisney shouldn't be guesstimating what a person would or wouldn't do based off the fact they are in a challenge. They should use the proof of time submitted and apply it the same way they would for a single race entry.

I believe they do apply the proof of time to everyone in the race equally, no matter if you're running a challenge or not. It'd be way too much work on their part to do otherwise. The problem stems from the fact that rD wants to use the same bib for the half and the full for challenge runners. Unless they start providing separate bibs for each race, which is highly unlikely for reasons @DopeyBadger gave some examples of above, there's not much to be done about it.

 

[bananabean]

I believe they do apply the proof of time to everyone in the race equally, no matter if you're running a challenge or not. It'd be way too much work on their part to do otherwise. The problem stems from the fact that rD wants to use the same bib for the half and the full for challenge runners. Unless they start providing separate bibs for each race, which is highly unlikely for reasons @DopeyBadger gave some examples of above, there's not much to be done about it.

I wonder why they don't list two corrals on the half/full bib like they do for other challenges during the year.

 

[DopeyBadger]

I wonder why they don't list two corrals on the half/full bib like they do for other challenges during the year.

That's a really good point. I wasn't aware they did that but just looked up bibs for Dumbo and Dark Side and saw they do have dual assignments. Now I also wonder why they don't because it would definitely not be because of the population issue I laid out previously.

 

[Ariel484]

I wonder why they don't list two corrals on the half/full bib like they do for other challenges during the year.

That's a really good point. I wasn't aware they did that but just looked up bibs for Dumbo and Dark Side and saw they do have dual assignments. Now I also wonder why they don't because it would definitely not be because of the population issue I laid out previously.

It would mess up the bib numbering/order, wouldn't it?

 

[camaker]

It would mess up the bib numbering/order, wouldn't it?

It shouldn't, since the challenge participants get their own set of bib numbers. They would be put in order based on their PoT and then assigned to corrals for the two race distances independently. That allows rD to "draw the line" between the corrals differently for each race. For example, at the SWDSC my bib had A/B printed on it so I was in Corral A for the 10k and Corral B for the half. Seemed to work just fine.

 

[bananabean]

It would mess up the bib numbering/order, wouldn't it?

Do the Dopey/Goofy challenges have different number sequences than the individual races? I know they do for some of the other races (I've only done PDC and GSC, so I don't have a lot of wisdom to impart). If so, I would think they would be able to set it up and have a different corral chart for the challenges.

edit:

It shouldn't, since the challenge participants get their own set of bib numbers. They would be put in order based on their PoT and then assigned to corrals for the two race distances independently. That allows rD to "draw the line" between the corrals differently for each race. For example, at the SWDSC my bib had A/B printed on it so I was in Corral A for the 10k and Corral B for the half. Seemed to work just fine.

Well that answers my question!

 

[Keels]

Do the Dopey/Goofy challenges have different number sequences than the individual races? I know they do for some of the other races (I've only done PDC and GSC, so I don't have a lot of wisdom to impart). If so, I would think they would be able to set it up and have a different corral chart for the challenges.

edit:


Well that answers my question!

My two Dopey bibs were the same numbers. Dopey bibs were 2xxxx. I believe Goofy was 1xxxx, and Marathon was 0xxxx. I can't remember what half, 10k and 5k were ...

Anyway. I have three theories on why there are two Dopey bibs:
1. Given all the potential for weather and wear over the course of four days, a bib just would not hold up over the course of four days, nor would the chip ...
2. Which, also, MAY only be able to record times for TWO races. Or at least RD has made the decision to only pay for timing technology for chips to cover a max of two races per use (Dopey is the only instance where there is more than two races for a challenge). Which brings me to ..
3. The theory that is going to be MOST controversial. One - despite having to have a physical TIME for the 5k, we all know that nobody gets swept on the 5k. We also know that Disney doesn't abide by the 16:00/mile rule for challenges. Finish the races (aka, don't get swept) and you complete the challenge. Personally - and this is just based on my thinking and what I saw on the computer screen this year at the Dopey tent AND from looking at the SAG list every day during Dopey ... I don't think they really care about the first two races, only the half and the full. When I passed through the Dopey tent, I stood next to the computer, she typed in my number and up popped my half and full times and my picture with my two bibs. Anyway. Like I said. Controversial. But I feel the first two are the legit reasons why there are two bibs.

As far as corralling goes - again, I'm pretty sure I got screwed in the 5/10 ... but I had a blast in those races. I never felt crowded or anything like I have at other RD 5 and 10Ks where I've been slotted FAR closer to the front (I'm usually in A/B for 5Ks and B/C for 10Ks). It just motivated me to get to a better PoT for Dopey in 2017.

It also made me realize that it's MY race, and MY race experience (a lesson I almost immediately forgot and had to be reminded of when Princess Weekend came around ... blargh), so I'm not going to let a tiny letter of the alphabet keep me from my goal for myself. Everybody has to go somewhere.

THAT SAID. I recommend everyone that may have a question about corral placement print out their registration as available on Active.com (and it does update a few minutes after you update a PoT, so just FYI) and take that, along with a printout of your PoT race and go talk to someone at Runner Relations. I was curious as to why I was corralled the way I was for Tink, and I just wanted to know if I'd done something wrong when I'd switched my registration over from only the half to the Challenge ... and it turns out, I didn't update the dropdown to say I planned to finish in x-amount of time that corresponded with my PoT. The super-sweet gal at Runner Relations immediately pointed it out to me on my registration form, looked at a couple of printouts she had and then stickered my bib.

Registration, corralling, assignments ... all of it is an imperfect science even for the smallest of events. You can't make everyone happy, especially on a race weekend like an RD weekend that hosts SO many runners and is pulled off by a very small full-time staff augmented by copious amounts of volunteers that just want to help.

On top of that - I know this is going to sound really weird coming from me because I b!+ch about things RD does - but I do think they do many things better than large-scale race competitors, and they do things that competitors don't do. They don't charge for premium corrals like Hot Chocolate races do. They don't self-corral like Rock 'n' Roll races do. They release corrals and bib numbers in advance - something I KNOW Hot Chocolate races don't do. Their communications sucks hardcore, but anything that involves race weekend has been nothing but a dream scenario to me so far in the five RD race weekends I've done in the past year - including the W&D 1/2 of a 1/2.

 

[DopeyBadger]

It would mess up the bib numbering/order, wouldn't it?

It shouldn't, since the challenge participants get their own set of bib numbers. They would be put in order based on their PoT and then assigned to corrals for the two race distances independently. That allows rD to "draw the line" between the corrals differently for each race. For example, at the SWDSC my bib had A/B printed on it so I was in Corral A for the 10k and Corral B for the half. Seemed to work just fine.

It's a great point because I think it would mess up the bib numbering for Goofy/Dopey on the basis of how they currently release the corral assignments. Because the current assignments release the order of bib #s associated and the POT estimate having a system where Goofy/Dopey runners would be slotted into different corrals wouldn't work. However, just number them by their full POT and then assign corrals based on POT estimate for the half as an individual race (as @camaker point out). However, if they just released the graphic of corral assignments by POT alone (and no bib #s) and then just put the corral assignments on the initial waiver screen it would solve the problem of their graphic not matching the assignments for people.

On top of that - I know this is going to sound really weird coming from me because I b!+ch about things RD does - but I do think they do many things better than large-scale race competitors, and they do things that competitors don't do. They don't charge for premium corrals like Hot Chocolate races do. They don't self-corral like Rock 'n' Roll races do. They release corrals and bib numbers in advance - something I KNOW Hot Chocolate races don't do. Their communications sucks hardcore, but anything that involves race weekend has been nothing but a dream scenario to me so far in the five RD race weekends I've done in the past year - including the W&D 1/2 of a 1/2.

This is a great point. In the end we're discussing a very small factor in the grand scheme of things. RD does do a great job. For instance, my coworker has been training for the last 18 weeks with Hansons for her first marathon. She just found out that the marathon didn't secure it's permits and is now cancelled. Now that sucks!

http://www.runnersworld.com/watchdog/minneapolis-marathon-organizer-scrambles-to-set-new-course
http://www.mprnews.org/story/2016/05/25/2016-minneapolis-marathon-cancelled-team-ortho-foundation

Although she said no matter what she's doing 26.2 miles next weekend. We weren't able to find any other marathons in a reasonable distance and it had to be this coming weekend because her BF is coming in town for one weekend to run his 1st marathon with her as well. So I told her that I would set up aid stations and cheering locations across the city if she wanted so that she can still complete her 26.2 goal.

 

[FFigawi]

This is a great point. In the end we're discussing a very small factor in the grand scheme of things. RD does do a great job. For instance, my coworker has been training for the last 18 weeks with Hansons for her first marathon. She just found out that the marathon didn't secure it's permits and is now cancelled. Now that sucks!

From reading the article, the company sounds like one where I'd never enter one of their races. A non-profit providing only $8500 to charity is not a non-profit. It's a scam.

Although she said no matter what she's doing 26.2 miles next weekend. We weren't able to find any other marathons in a reasonable distance and it had to be this coming weekend because her BF is coming in town for one weekend to run his 1st marathon with her as well. So I told her that I would set up aid stations and cheering locations across the city if she wanted so that she can still complete her 26.2 goal.

I'm willing to bet you could publicize this on social media and end up with a lot of runners and a lot of volunteers. She certainly isn't the only one who wants to run a marathon that weekend.

 

[croach]

This is a great point. In the end we're discussing a very small factor in the grand scheme of things. RD does do a great job. For instance, my coworker has been training for the last 18 weeks with Hansons for her first marathon. She just found out that the marathon didn't secure it's permits and is now cancelled. Now that sucks

Although she said no matter what she's doing 26.2 miles next weekend. We weren't able to find any other marathons in a reasonable distance and it had to be this coming weekend because her BF is coming in town for one weekend to run his 1st marathon with her as well. So I told her that I would set up aid stations and cheering locations across the city if she wanted so that she can still complete her 26.2 goal.

That really is awful especially since it sounds like some of it is due to road construction they might have been able to plan for. But it does happen - I signed up for RNR Pittsburgh a few years ago and they cancelled it because they couldn't get permits. And we were talking about Ragnar in another thread and they cancelled their Keys race for the same reason. Still sucks though and it's pretty awesome you're going to set up a course for them.

 

[Ariel484]

It's a great point because I think it would mess up the bib numbering for Goofy/Dopey on the basis of how they currently release the corral assignments. Because the current assignments release the order of bib #s associated and the POT estimate having a system where Goofy/Dopey runners would be slotted into different corrals wouldn't work.

Right. That's what I meant, was just too lazy to explain further.

And speaking of lazy...I think that is why rD does the corrals the way they do with Goofy/Dopey runners. They barely check times as it is, I can't imagine them actually putting in the effort to do 2 or 4 separate assignments for Goofy and Dopey runners. Or wanting to invest in more sets of bibs if they had to re-do the numbering or whatever. I also cannot see them printing individualized corral lettering for each person. It's way easier for them to just give a Dopey runner 2 bibs with 1 letter on them each, instead of coming up with different combinations of letters for so many of the bibs.

Whenever runDisney does/doesn't do something, I chalk up their reasoning to cost, laziness or sloppiness... (I'm becoming slightly disenchanted with them lately, in case it isn't obvious )

 

[DopeyBadger]

From reading the article, the company sounds like one where I'd never enter one of their races. A non-profit providing only $8500 to charity is not a non-profit. It's a scam.

I'm willing to bet you could publicize this on social media and end up with a lot of runners and a lot of volunteers. She certainly isn't the only one who wants to run a marathon that weekend.

Totally agree, they're a scam. I won't ever be running with them.

That really is awful especially since it sounds like some of it is due to road construction they might have been able to plan for. But it does happen - I signed up for RNR Pittsburgh a few years ago and they cancelled it because they couldn't get permits. And we were talking about Ragnar in another thread and they cancelled their Keys race for the same reason. Still sucks though and it's pretty awesome you're going to set up a course for them.

I talked to her this morning and she's dead set on running the 26.2 next weekend. Although she's decided to do it in Minneapolis and not locally here in Madison, so that counts me out. She said her family/BF are considering their options and may very well post something on social media about it. I suggested setting up one aid station and then doing 4 separate loops of 6 miles in different directions (with an additional 2.2 miles). Her and her BF were going to map it out. I said jokingly well if you want it to be a "real marathon" then you should run 26.4 miles because it's so hard to run the tangents in a real one (LOL!). So she said that's what she was going to do. I said she should buy a trophy for 1st in age division for herself with the refunded entry fee. She said she's going to save her money because she starts Med school in the fall. I might still buy her a cheap finisher's medal regardless because it is her 1st marathon and all.

Right. That's what I meant, was just too lazy to explain further.

And speaking of lazy...I think that is why rD does the corrals the way they do with Goofy/Dopey runners. They barely check times as it is, I can't imagine them actually putting in the effort to do 2 or 4 separate assignments for Goofy and Dopey runners. Or wanting to invest in more sets of bibs if they had to re-do the numbering or whatever. I also cannot see them printing individualized corral lettering for each person. It's way easier for them to just give a Dopey runner 2 bibs with 1 letter on them each, instead of coming up with different combinations of letters for so many of the bibs.

Whenever runDisney does/doesn't do something, I chalk up their reasoning to cost, laziness or sloppiness... (I'm becoming slightly disenchanted with them lately, in case it isn't obvious )

I think you are likely spot on.

 

[surfde22]

This is a great point. In the end we're discussing a very small factor in the grand scheme of things. RD does do a great job. For instance, my coworker has been training for the last 18 weeks with Hansons for her first marathon. She just found out that the marathon didn't secure it's permits and is now cancelled. Now that sucks!

http://www.runnersworld.com/watchdog/minneapolis-marathon-organizer-scrambles-to-set-new-course
http://www.mprnews.org/story/2016/05/25/2016-minneapolis-marathon-cancelled-team-ortho-foundation

Although she said no matter what she's doing 26.2 miles next weekend. We weren't able to find any other marathons in a reasonable distance and it had to be this coming weekend because her BF is coming in town for one weekend to run his 1st marathon with her as well. So I told her that I would set up aid stations and cheering locations across the city if she wanted so that she can still complete her 26.2 goal.

The race organizers for that race aren't really that great to begin with. They've been investigated by local new channels recently for poor management of fund. Only about 0.5-1 cent per dollar actually goes to the charity the are sponsoring. I did one of their runs on January 1, and while the swag and medals were great I felt there was a lot to be desired with the whole process. For example, the original information on the website said the 5k was chip timed. When I go my bib there was no chip. After weeks of emailing them and getting no response I went to one of their packet pickup days to find out they had changed the 5k to a fun run, and only timed if you were doing one of there challenges. While this isn't the end of the world, the communication could've been better when contacting them directly.

 

[surfde22]

From reading the article, the company sounds like one where I'd never enter one of their races. A non-profit providing only $8500 to charity is not a non-profit. It's a scam.

I registered for one of their races before the local news did a story on how little the are giving to charity. I will never do another one. The news talked to former employees of the organization and it wasn't uncommon for them to take last minute trips to China to pick up participant shirts due to ordering them too late. And from what I hear the Chairman pretty much uses the non-profits money as his personal bank account. I would suggest anyone and everyone to stay away from them.

 

[Barca33Runner]

Whenever runDisney does/doesn't do something, I chalk up their reasoning to cost, laziness or sloppiness... (I'm becoming slightly disenchanted with them lately, in case it isn't obvious )

I'm in the same boat. It's an "I'm not mad at you, I'm just disappointed" situation for me. I am still going to keep coming back for Marathon Weekend (and it is still, basically, my favorite week of the year) and for the scale of the races they put on they are, for me, still doing a really good job . . . But it still feels like they could be doing a bit more to improve and/or add to the experience.

 

[FFigawi]

I might still buy her a cheap finisher's medal regardless because it is her 1st marathon and all.

I know where you can buy her three medals, though not exactly cheap...

 

[Ariel484]

I'm in the same boat. It's an "I'm not mad at you, I'm just disappointed" situation for me. I am still going to keep coming back for Marathon Weekend (and it is still, basically, my favorite week of the year) and for the scale of the races they put on they are, for me, still doing a really good job . . . But it still feels like they could be doing a bit more to improve and/or add to the experience.

Right, exactly. I was really, really not impressed with what they did with Wine & Dine weekend - I'm still disappointed that they changed it from a night race (which, again - I have to think is financially motivated in some way), and them pushing back registration the day before it was supposed to begin was just crazy. And their customer service over phone, email, etc. is non-existent. I think their merchandise policies are ridiculous - letting everyone into the expo, whether they are registered for an event or not, is not unique to runDisney, but when stuff sells out and runners don't get access, and have been complaining about it a LOT, and would willingly pay for these items if they had access to them...couldn't runDisney figure out ways to make more stuff available? Expand pre-orders or something? And while I'm grateful that they offer deferrals, they are posting them later and later, along with other important race details (i.e. confirming next year's Dark Side weekend dates) - they KNOW how far in advance people need to plan for trips like this, they just make it so hard!

It just seems like, lately, they have gotten greedy (example: offering early expo access for an additional cost at some events) and have stopped figuring out ways to make the race weekend experience better for everyone. The revamping of the corral system a couple of years back, along with their announcement that they were actually going to limit entries a bit more for some of the races (i.e. WDW Half) was awesome, and I thought it was a true sign that they truly did care what we thought. But I think they've been resting on their laurels over the past year or so, and have continued to increase race entry fees (I'm cringing imagining what Dopey will cost for 2018) while not addressing common complaints...but it seems like some events aren't selling out as quickly, so who knows, maybe that'll knock them down a peg.

 

[croach]

Right, exactly. I was really, really not impressed with what they did with Wine & Dine weekend - I'm still disappointed that they changed it from a night race (which, again - I have to think is financially motivated in some way), and them pushing back registration the day before it was supposed to begin was just crazy. And their customer service over phone, email, etc. is non-existent. I think their merchandise policies are ridiculous - letting everyone into the expo, whether they are registered for an event or not, is not unique to runDisney, but when stuff sells out and runners don't get access, and have been complaining about it a LOT, and would willingly pay for these items if they had access to them...couldn't runDisney figure out ways to make more stuff available? Expand pre-orders or something? And while I'm grateful that they offer deferrals, they are posting them later and later, along with other important race details (i.e. confirming next year's Dark Side weekend dates) - they KNOW how far in advance people need to plan for trips like this, they just make it so hard!

It just seems like, lately, they have gotten greedy (example: offering early expo access for an additional cost at some events) and have stopped figuring out ways to make the race weekend experience better for everyone. The revamping of the corral system a couple of years back, along with their announcement that they were actually going to limit entries a bit more for some of the races (i.e. WDW Half) was awesome, and I thought it was a true sign that they truly did care what we thought. But I think they've been resting on their laurels over the past year or so, and have continued to increase race entry fees (I'm cringing imagining what Dopey will cost for 2018) while not addressing common complaints...but it seems like some events aren't selling out as quickly, so who knows, maybe that'll knock them down a peg.

Agreed 100% about Wine and Dine. I was disappointed in them taking away the night race(partly bc I wanted to do it this year) but it was a unique deal. And then they need to add another challenge - every weekend doesn't need a challenge. But Disney being greedy and it extending to runDisney isn't a surprise. They always push to what the market will pay be in race fees or paying extra to get access to certain things(that's business I guess). And like you said, maybe with things not selling out they'll make some changes. Or they'll just do away races weekends to close the gap. But I keep giving them my money so.....lol.

 

[Ariel484]

Agreed 100% about Wine and Dine. I was disappointed in them taking away the night race(partly bc I wanted to do it this year) but it was a unique deal. And then they need to add another challenge - every weekend doesn't need a challenge. But Disney being greedy and it extending to runDisney isn't a surprise. They always push to what the market will pay be in race fees or paying extra to get access to certain things(that's business I guess). And like you said, maybe with things not selling out they'll make some changes. Or they'll just do away races weekends to close the gap. But I keep giving them my money so.....lol.

Agree with you so much, especially the portions in bold.