Marathon Weekend 2016

[Z-Knight]

So, first according to the calculator a VO2max of 50 is equivalent to a vVO2 of 9.68mph or a 6:20 pace. This means a desired goal of a 3:45 marathon pace (8:35) is 72.2% of your VO2max. Most marathon runners are somewhere between 60%-70% (for you 10:20 min/mile to 8:52 min/mile) but elite runners can take the percentage as high as 85%. So a 3:45 pace is towards the upper end of normal for your current fitness level, although it is definitely doable with good running economy/mechanics.

Over the entirety of the marathon you will burn an estimated 3682.5 kcals. Given your pace is 72.2% VO2max, it is estimated that 2474.6 kcals of the 3682.5 total calories burned will come from glucose. Assuming an average male leg muscle mass of 18.3kg (20% of your body weight), you have 1466.2 calories of glucose stored in your leg muscles. This means without tapping into any other source you will have a deficit of 1008.4 calories of glucose. The average person can take an additional 100 kcals of glucose from the liver without putting the body in danger, thus your final deficit total is 908.4 calories.

This means that either through a carb loading schedule prior to the race, or a nutrition plan during the race you need to consume an extra 908 calories to complete the marathon without hitting the wall at the pace you desire (3:45 marathon) given your current fitness level. This breaks down to 242.3 calories per hour if you decided to only use a nutrition plan during the race.

The other key is total carbohydrates in g weight. Purely based on your weight, you would need to consume between 61.1 and 87.3 carbohydrates per hour to push past the wall if you were to do no carbohydrate loading prior to the race. Research shows the human body limit is around 90g of carbohydrates in good conditions (not too hot or humid). So you're upper limit is on the threshold for the capability of the human body to consume that much without starting to cause GI issues. For every 2 g carbohydrates consumed you need to drink at least one ounce of water. Thus, for the duration of your marathon (3:45), you would need to consume 327.3 g carbohydrates and 163.7 ounces of water. If the conditions are worse (hot/humid), you may need to consume more water. Research has shown that consuming carbohydrates in two different forms increases the body's ability to absorb them. Thus, some combination of any two of glucose, fructose, sucrose, maltodrextin, etc. will allow the body to absorb a slightly higher amount than a single carbohydrate source.

Given all of this information, it would appear you would likely need to do some combination of a carb loading plan prior to the race and carb consumption during the race. Hope this helps and let me know if you have any other questions.

This is really cool. Thank you very much for all of this insightful data. It will take me a little time to process it all.

 

[Pleglech]

What are everyone's training plans and goals for marathon weekend?

I'm using the Hansons Advanced plan. My Dopey goal is under 7:00 hours and to finish in the top 500. My mother's goal is a 2:05 half-marathon. My wife's goal is to finish the half marathon with a smile. Lastly, my daughter's goal is to break Florence Griffith-Joyner's 100m WR (10.49 sec) in the Kids Dash.

Have you used that plan before? I'm interested to see how people do on it vs. Pfitz/Hudson/whatever.

My plan: Just run a bunch, mostly base-building type stuff ahead of a spring cycle with a weekly run oriented toward the faster end of LT. Maybe averaging about 65-70 mpw.
My goal: I've bought the first beer at the end of the half the last two years in a row, and I plan to keep that streak alive. I may race the half. But I've also made it a thing to stop for every character before. Might be a race-day decision. Goal for the full is to take my time and stop at McDonald's and Mexico.

 

[DopeyBadger]

I'm just hoping to finish the full and not feel like death...or at least to be able to enjoy the cruise afterwards.

It sounds like you have the perfect mindset. I've found the more positive thinking I have during training and races the better they go.

My goal is to get as many character pictures as I can and have a blast!

Love this! Any particular character you're hoping to see out there?

My goal is to finish, have as much fun as possible, and be in as little pain as I can so I can enjoy the parks.

Which is your favorite park?

Training plan is Pfitz 18/55. Goal for marathon is 3:25-3:29:59

Haven't tried Pftiz yet, what do you like best about it?

My goal is to get my half under 3 hours, if I'm unable to accomplish that at Avengers in a month.

Ohh you've got this! More like, after I get 3 hours at Avengers I'll have to come up with a new goal for marathon weekend!

However, knowing how congested rD races can be, it will prove to be very difficult. But if I could get a sub-1:55, it'd be a PR for me.

Hoping for a good corral for you. I was in G last year and was able to run a 1:59, but it didn't really open up for me until about mile 10. The key to a congested race like disney is to just let the course come to you and when it opens just be ready to kick it into gear. I always envision playing Pac-Man when I run, trying to catch all those Ghosts running away from me.

 

[Waiting2goback]

Which is your favorite park?

Magic Kingdom all day long. I love it! What is yours?

 

[kevdad]

What are everyone's training plans and goals for marathon weekend?

I'm using the Hansons Advanced plan. My Dopey goal is under 7:00 hours and to finish in the top 500. My mother's goal is a 2:05 half-marathon. My wife's goal is to finish the half marathon with a smile. Lastly, my daughter's goal is to break Florence Griffith-Joyner's 100m WR (10.49 sec) in the Kids Dash.

I'm definitely in the category of have fun, stop for pictures, and have a big smile on my face for 26.2 miles. I'm really looking forward to not having a time goal for the first time.

I love your daughter's goal, that girl can think big! I'm also running the 5k with DS10 and am looking forward to that more than anything. He's run a bunch of 5k's and 1 10k and I bet this one will be his favorite by far.

 

[DopeyBadger]

Have you used that plan before? I'm interested to see how people do on it vs. Pfitz/Hudson/whatever.

My plan: Just run a bunch, mostly base-building type stuff ahead of a spring cycle with a weekly run oriented toward the faster end of LT. Maybe averaging about 65-70 mpw.
My goal: I've bought the first beer at the end of the half the last two years in a row, and I plan to keep that streak alive. I may race the half. But I've also made it a thing to stop for every character before. Might be a race-day decision. Goal for the full is to take my time and stop at McDonald's and Mexico.

I started with a marathon before any other distance 3 years ago. I trained with Galloway and FIRST and kept coming up short on my 4-hour marathon goal (5 attempts). My wife agreed to let me try running 6 days a week and I felt the Hanson's plan matched my skill set (enjoy speed work, not injury prone) and deficiencies (struggled with long distance intervals) best. I used a combination of their 18-week Beginner and Advanced plan and made my own "Intermediate" plan. During the training, my heart rate dropped 20bpm at similar runs with matching environmental factors (heat, humidity, training load) from prior to the plan to afterwards. This was eye-opening for me. My training goal was a 3:45. During my marathon a few weeks ago, I set a new 10K PR (49:22) during miles 17-23, a half-marathon PR (1:46) during the second half of the marathon, and a full marathon PR at 3:38. I only got passed by 2 people after mile 7 (3500 total people in the race). It was an amazing experience. It was clear after using the Hanson's plan that I didn't run enough slower mileage during previous training cycles.

 

[DopeyBadger]

Magic Kingdom all day long. I love it! What is yours?

Surprisingly, Animal Kingdom is our family's favorite. My daughter loves the animals, and my wife feels like the park is the most immersive in the environment.

I'm definitely in the category of have fun, stop for pictures, and have a big smile on my face for 26.2 miles. I'm really looking forward to not having a time goal for the first time.

I love your daughter's goal, that girl can think big! I'm also running the 5k with DS10 and am looking forward to that more than anything. He's run a bunch of 5k's and 1 10k and I bet this one will be his favorite by far.

I've found when I don't stress over time during a run is when I have the most fun. My daughter is only 1.5 years old but she loves to play chase. We're planning on dressing up as Boo and Sully, so that I can chase her down the track.

 

[SarahDisney]

My goals are...

5K: Run & finish with my sister, letting her take the reins. We'll probably do a mix of walk/run and stop for all the characters, but we'll make final decisions on that closer to the race

10K: Finish & feel comfortable the whole time.
Whether I'm running at a decent pace or having a super slow day, whether I'm struggling or doing well, whether I decide to stop for a lot of characters and pictures or just run the whole thing straight through (okay, that's not likely, I'm definitely stopping for at least some characters), I just want to feel like I know what I'm doing and I can face whatever I encounter and come out of it with a smile on my face.

I'm very specifically not setting a time goal for either race for two reasons:
1) I'm not the fastest of runners, and I've found that when I expect myself to hit a certain pace, I get disappointed if I don't hit that pace, which happens a lot. I'm much happier when I just go out there and don't worry too much about my pace.
2) For my first runDisney race, I set a time goal. Because I also wanted to stop for every character and I hit some long lines, I was significantly over my time goal. Months later I'm still having a hard time getting over it, which is rough. So I'm not setting any time goals - whenever I finish, I finish. As long as I finish both races, I'll be happy.

 

[Baloo in MI]

Congrats on the PR! The stop at the running store sounds like a really good idea. I'm not sure what you were wearing but I find that for long or harder runs my knees usually do better if I wear compression tights or longer cw-x shorts. It may just be the placebo effect but the cw-x stuff does seem to minimize my IT band issues.

Thanks. Appreciate the suggestion. Knee is still sore today so I am looking at all options; this is a new thing for me.

 

[IamTrike]

I started with a marathon before any other distance 3 years ago. I trained with Galloway and FIRST and kept coming up short on my 4-hour marathon goal (5 attempts). My wife agreed to let me try running 6 days a week and I felt the Hanson's plan matched my skill set (enjoy speed work, not injury prone) and deficiencies (struggled with long distance intervals) best. I used a combination of their 18-week Beginner and Advanced plan and made my own "Intermediate" plan. During the training, my heart rate dropped 20bpm at similar runs with matching environmental factors (heat, humidity, training load) from prior to the plan to afterwards. This was eye-opening for me. My training goal was a 3:45. During my marathon a few weeks ago, I set a new 10K PR (49:22) during miles 17-23, a half-marathon PR (1:46) during the second half of the marathon, and a full marathon PR at 3:38. I only got passed by 2 people after mile 7 (3500 total people in the race). It was an amazing experience. It was clear after using the Hanson's plan that I didn't run enough slower mileage during previous training cycles.

I'm a big believer in Hanson's after using it for Chicago. In the middle of using it for my full marathon training plan I did the dumbo challenge. I PR'd the 10k, then PR'd the half and during the half I set another 10k PR. For the marathon I felt really comfortable at race pace up through mile 20. While I didn't hit my goal time I think I would have been very close if one of the people in our group hadn't had leg cramping issues.

 

[Berniemgr]

No real goal for me other than completing 26.2 miles without dying lol. I'm just excited to be running it and having the experience. I'm looking forward to an adults only trip, even a quick one, so DH can do what we want vs catering to the kiddos.

I've been using a training plan from a book called "Run Like a Mother. " All was going well until about 6 weeks ago when I got a micro tear in my quad. Been doing therapy for the last two weeks and its really making a difference. I had gotten up to 18 miles before the injury, so I was worried about a major set back, but thankfully (knock on wood) I should be okay to keep training and not lose much ground.

 

[Baloo in MI]

Where is your knee sore? It could be related to an ITB issue. Proper shoes can help a little with that, as will strengthening and stretching exercies.

Kind of hard to pinpoint. Mostly next to the kneecap on the inside side of my leg. Does that make sense?

 

[Baloo in MI]

Had a very interesting weekend. The long version can be found on my journal page (linked in my signature line). The short version is I had a accident on my bike Saturday morning which resulted in a few bruises, cuts, and broken bike. Saw the Tigers play the Gators Saturday night. Slept for 4-5 hours (Good practice for Disney) and ran a half Sunday with a finish time of 1:39:28. A new PR by 2+ minutes. That time puts me close to my goal finish/projected finish time for Disney Marathon, but I still have some work to get done. I am still very happy to get below 1:40 at that distance and feeling positive moving forward.

Congrats! What a great time!

 

[Barca33Runner]

My goal is to finish my third Dopey and fourth marathon and have a blast doing it. I will probably run the 5K and 10K for PR's since I don't run many actual races at those distances and run a little less strenuous for the other two races. Hopefully my marathon will be a PR as well as it is only my fourth and I have improved each of the previous three times. I've not been super happy with my fitness and approach to this year's race so I really have to put together a good couple months to get myself where I need to be to achieve those goals. I have made big strides each of my previous years coming back for Marathon weekend and feel like this is the first year that I have been too complacent about my ability to finish the race.

We usually hit a park on Thursday after the 5K and are still deciding which one to do. We have done Epcot the last couple years so were thinking we might switch it up a bit. We don't have any children in our group and have been to Magic Kingdom a few times recently so were thinking of HS or AK. Any recommendations? Are any attractions due to be down at either of those parks?

Also, I may need to see Star Wars for the first or fiftieth time as well as Hateful Eight while winding down at Downtown Disney/Disney Springs.

 

[FFigawi]

What are everyone's training plans and goals for marathon weekend?

I'm not running this year, but if I were, my goal would be to finish DATW in time to have dinner in Mexico before the fireworks.

Kind of hard to pinpoint. Mostly next to the kneecap on the inside side of my leg. Does that make sense?

Yes. The outside would be ITB, so that's ruled mostly out. New shoes that match your gait is definitely the right first step to take in trying to let you run without soreness.

 

[Z-Knight]

What are everyone's training plans and goals for marathon weekend?

I'm using the Hansons Advanced plan. My Dopey goal is under 7:00 hours and to finish in the top 500.

That's a tough goal, at least it would be for me. I think if I could do 7:30, I'd be happy...mostly because I'm going to try to walk the Half Marathon and save myself for the Full - try to do the full in under 3:45 (at least that's the training plan that I'm trying for).

 

[Neoflynn]

How does one calculate VO2 max?

as for goals for the 5k the goal is have fun and take some great character pictures (will be running with DW and Her mom and we will be dressed as beauty and the beast) as for the marathon the ONLY goal is to finish and not die LOL

 

[Z-Knight]

How does one calculate VO2 max?

as for goals for the 5k the goal is have fun and take some great character pictures (will be running with DW and Her mom and we will be dressed as beauty and the beast) as for the marathon the ONLY goal is to finish and not die LOL

You can go to a doctor and get tested for it, but most people estimate it based on past performance. You can use this calculator, for example, to give you predicted times for other races, it will display predicted VO2max on top.

http://www.runningforfitness.org/calc/racepaces/rp

I use my Garmin 620 watch that does estimation based on my outside run performance - after a few runs it dials in on what your current value is. Its probably overestimating a little but lots of people seem to compare well between the watch and actual doctor tests so I have some belief in it.

 

[dancingtodisney]

Hi everyone! After years of just reading (stalking?) I decided to join in. I've completed 6 marathons, 11 half-marathons, and a handful of 5K/10Ks. This January will be my 3rd Dopey (going for Legacy) and I just love the experience of it. I am a big believer in the Hansons Marathon Method after this past marathon where I set a marathon PR by 42 minutes (3:38), a 10K PR (49:22) during miles 17-23, and a half marathon PR (1:46) during the second half of the marathon. By occupation, I am a scientist and feel I may be able to help others enjoy running as much as I do through a combination of my experience and scientific approach to running.

@dancingtodisney I use a variety of calculators that I've compiled from different sources (Hansons and Ben Rappoport) to determine carbohydrate, calorie, and liquid consumption. Without trying to be too personal, with your weight (lbs), estimated time goal, and VO2 max I could give you an estimate as to how many calories/carbohydrates you would need to consume during the race. If you don't know your VO2max, you can use the calculator here to get a very rough estimate (http://www.shapesense.com/fitness-exercise/calculators/vo2max-calculator.aspx) using your age and resting heart rate.

Hansons are a proponent that it takes the body 10 days to receive the benefits from a workout. Thus, doing any hard workouts within 10 days of the marathon won't really help much. Thus, a 50% reduction in total mileage (don't change # of days running though) from peak week during the last week is their recommendation with intensity being on the slower side of most of your training. To account for the "staleness" from reducing intensity and mileage, on the day before the marathon run 2-3 miles with a few 10 sec bursts up to desired marathon pace.

As for carb loading prior to the race, there are three different main methods out there.

1 - 3 day carb depletion followed by a 3 day carb loading
2 - No carb depletion followed by a 3 day carb loading
3 - A 110% (close to all out effort) run for 30 sec on the day before the marathon, followed by a super carb loading throughout the day.

All three of these methods have been shown to increase glycogen storage to higher levels than normal (with a rough correlation to giving an improvement of 1-3% in overall time). There is also some research out there that a glycogen supercompensation can last as many as 5 days. Personally, I don't like the feeling of being so full on marathon day. So for me, 4 days out from the marathon I start a 3 day carb loading cycle that changes the % of carbs as my diet from 60% up to near 85% with mostly protein filling the remaining difference (I generally don't like to increase my overall calorie consumption though). This way the day before the marathon I can revert back to my normal diet, and feel less full for race day.

The key to any advice though is we are all an experiment of one and thus something that may work great for one person might not work well for someone else. We all just have to find our personal sweet spot through trial and error.

Thanks so much for the detailed reply!
168lbs, 5hrs, 30.4 ml/kg/min

Hope that's what you need.

 

[FFigawi]

That's a tough goal, at least it would be for me. I think if I could do 7:30, I'd be happy...mostly because I'm going to try to walk the Half Marathon and save myself for the Full - try to do the full in under 3:45 (at least that's the training plan that I'm trying for).

I would caution against walking the half for two main reasons. One, that's a lot more time on your feet the day before a full where you're trying to run faster than you ever have before. Two, walking uses different muscles than running, so you'd need to do a fair amount of training to get used to walking that distance. You're better off treating it as an easy run and going at a pace a minute or so per mile slower than you normally run.