Marathon Training (will this work)

[sap1227]

Now that I have signed for the Full, I am penciling in my long runs on my calendar. I am doing a Half on Nov 20th and I am following this Jeff Galloway plan for the Full http://espnwwos.disney.go.com/media/ewwos/pdf/sports/rundisney/WDWexp.2.pdf.

Do you see any problem with moving around the long runs to look like this:

Oct 15th----17 miles (as scheduled)
Oct 22nd-----5 miles
Oct 29th-----20 miles
Nov 5th-------6 miles
Nov 12th------6 miles
Nov 20th-----Half Marathon
Nov 26th----6 miles
Dec 3rd-----6 miles
Dec 10th----23 miles
Dec 17th-----7 miles
Dec 24th-----6 miles
Dec 31------7 miles

I know this has me not doing the 26 miles run, but I think I will be OK. It seems like this should work, but I have never done this before, so I am just not sure.

Thanks for any input!

 

[cewait]

I think a slightly better plan would be

Nov 20th-----Half Marathon
Nov 26th----18-20 miles
Dec 3rd-----6 miles
Dec 10th----6 miles
Dec 17th-----20-23 miles
Dec 24th-----9-12 miles
Dec 31------7 miles

First, your plan would work fine, but I am always a little hesitant to take 3 full weekends for tapering. What I have done is to add another long run into the mix then slide everything back one week. I also added a range instead of absolute miles. This gives you permission to cut short the long runs, but still have enough distance to get you distance in.

Note that going 26 is is not mandatory. It is only to give you a mental assurance of making the distance. Jeff is the only coach who suggests running the full distance in training. Running 23, or even 20 three times will five you more than enough miles for the race.

Hope this helps.

 

[ironz]

I think a slightly better plan would be

Nov 20th-----Half Marathon
Nov 26th----18-20 miles
Dec 3rd-----6 miles
Dec 10th----6 miles
Dec 17th-----20-23 miles
Dec 24th-----9-12 miles
Dec 31------7 miles

First, your plan would work fine, but I am always a little hesitant to take 3 full weekends for tapering. What I have done is to add another long run into the mix then slide everything back one week. I also added a range instead of absolute miles. This gives you permission to cut short the long runs, but still have enough distance to get you distance in.

Note that going 26 is is not mandatory. It is only to give you a mental assurance of making the distance. Jeff is the only coach who suggests running the full distance in training. Running 23, or even 20 three times will five you more than enough miles for the race.

Hope this helps.

For me...I don't get the two 6 mile weeks.
I would more likely go:
half marathon
6
18-20
6
20-23
9-12
7
marathon

That gives you some recovery time between the longer runs.
Not a coach, but have done long distance tri (more) and running (less) for 11 years.

Hey, Charles...are you doing IM Texas? I just found out I think I can go spectate!

 

[crewmatt]

I agree with cewait, I'd stick with 20-22 as your long runs. Plus your chances of overdoing it on a 26 mile run is too high for the fitness benefits you'll get. It would really leave you wiped for the next week or two. You'll see what we mean when you get through that first marathon. Most peoples glycogen stores are enough to get them through about 2-2.5 hours of exercise. Beyond that Gu's and other sugar supplements will delay the inevitable crash (thats why you should start taking them between mile 4 and 6 even though you wont need it yet), but you'll be depleted for several days after that workout if you go to 26. Probably better for you to have a 20 miler and then a 6 miler 2 days later then a 26 miler, and then a 6 miler 3-4 days later.

 

[verticalchaos]

Coach ~ What are your thoughts on doing the long runs for time as opposed to distance? I found in doing my training for the NYC Half, when I went for time - shooting for slightly less than I was aiming for in the race (2:30 for the LSR while I was shooting for 2:45 in the race), I seemed to do better because I got "foot time" in. My PT said yesterday that if he didn't know I was running the race, he'd never have believed I did because my muscles were so not as tight as he would have expected for someone who just ran a HM. He did attribute most of it to the stretching I'd done after, but he also felt that in working more towards "foot time" I had my muscles more ready for it. I know I was actually a lot less sore - and I mean a lot more than I'd expect even for it being a second as opposed to a first HM.

When I was going for mileage, my 10 miles was done in just slightly over 2 hours, so my legs pretty much had no clue what 2:45 (2:47 as it turned out) was going to feel like.

I was thinking I'd be doing my LSRs in my marathon training more for time (I should point out that for my HM training, the 2:30 run turned out to be about 12 miles, so in getting the time in, I'm getting the distance too). Should I stick with that plan, making my longest run pretty close to the time I'm aiming to finish the marathon in rather than 20 miles where my legs will likely be in unknown territory more with the time than the mileage?

Does that make sense?

 

[sap1227]

I think a slightly better plan would be

Nov 20th-----Half Marathon
Nov 26th----18-20 miles
Dec 3rd-----6 miles
Dec 10th----6 miles
Dec 17th-----20-23 miles
Dec 24th-----9-12 miles
Dec 31------7 miles

First, your plan would work fine, but I am always a little hesitant to take 3 full weekends for tapering. What I have done is to add another long run into the mix then slide everything back one week. I also added a range instead of absolute miles. This gives you permission to cut short the long runs, but still have enough distance to get you distance in.

Note that going 26 is is not mandatory. It is only to give you a mental assurance of making the distance. Jeff is the only coach who suggests running the full distance in training. Running 23, or even 20 three times will five you more than enough miles for the race.

Hope this helps.

I love the fact that you think I can do 18 the week after the Half Marathon, I hope you are right!!

I have followed Hal Higdon's plan in the past to do the Disney Half, so I am not concerned with not getting to the race distance in training.


Thank you for the input! I really appreciate the help!

 

[sap1227]

For me...I don't get the two 6 mile weeks.

There was no real rhyme or reason, just moving around the runs on the training plan around the Half I have already registered for

 

[cewait]

Coach ~ What are your thoughts on doing the long runs for time as opposed to distance? I found in doing my training for the NYC Half, when I went for time - shooting for slightly less than I was aiming for in the race (2:30 for the LSR while I was shooting for 2:45 in the race), I seemed to do better because I got "foot time" in. My PT said yesterday that if he didn't know I was running the race, he'd never have believed I did because my muscles were so not as tight as he would have expected for someone who just ran a HM. He did attribute most of it to the stretching I'd done after, but he also felt that in working more towards "foot time" I had my muscles more ready for it. I know I was actually a lot less sore - and I mean a lot more than I'd expect even for it being a second as opposed to a first HM.

When I was going for mileage, my 10 miles was done in just slightly over 2 hours, so my legs pretty much had no clue what 2:45 (2:47 as it turned out) was going to feel like.

I was thinking I'd be doing my LSRs in my marathon training more for time (I should point out that for my HM training, the 2:30 run turned out to be about 12 miles, so in getting the time in, I'm getting the distance too). Should I stick with that plan, making my longest run pretty close to the time I'm aiming to finish the marathon in rather than 20 miles where my legs will likely be in unknown territory more with the time than the mileage?

Does that make sense?

I train by time on runs.... Comes from IM training. For a first timer I tend to make it miles based.since most first timers tend to not fully understand the space-time continuum... (or how long does it take to run 16 miles or so). They really need to focus on how far rather than how long. I limit my long runs to the 3:00 3:30 range and then just push through race day. If you were to head out and run by time rather than miles, I think it a good way to train. Now the downside is that the mid teens distances tend to really be tough in marathon training. Something about popping into the 14-17 mile range that freaks a lot of body out.

So I am not sure I have answered your question other than to say train by time if you feel confident in setting time limits on training runs. For me it was a little iffy the first year I trained that way but I have never been back.

For me...I don't get the two 6 mile weeks.
I would more likely go:
half marathon
6
18-20
6
20-23
9-12
7
marathon

That gives you some recovery time between the longer runs.
Not a coach, but have done long distance tri (more) and running (less) for 11 years.

Hey, Charles...are you doing IM Texas? I just found out I think I can go spectate!

The double 6's are a Galloway thing or so I think. They used to be double 10s.

Yes and no on IMTX. I am on the entry list and I have been training. No I am not going as our company DEO (Dumbest Exec Officer) scheduled a MANDATORY retreat. I have not been public with the info yet as I was hoping to talk my way out of the retreat. Needless to say, a very disappointing turn of events. The really good news is that I am made whole on cash outlays..entry plus expenses for which I could justify through a receipt. I thank the company for the new bike computer, tires, tape, overhaul, running shoes and saddle.

The course is going to be a great course. Really neat point to point swim, rolling bike route and a compact run course...OK the three lap thing stinks, but you will be able to hear Mike throughout the course. I am hoping that Keith prevails on his first choice of weekends in year two and the IMTX is a more seasonal event. The third weekend of May is going to keep the med staff ubber busy. I have already had a training issue where I came off the bike at the house and ended up laying under a neighbor's tree a quarter mile down the road - love those bricks.

 

[ironz]

Charles...
Well, I hope you can manage to race if that works out. I've been thinking it was a Sunday race and wasn't going to get to go watch. So many Austin peeps I know doing it, and a few from the Houston area. I'll get to watch most of the race anyway, before I have to get back.
What weekend is Keith trying to get? The anticipated conditions are part of why I didn't choose to do it (going to IM Austria instead!).

Back to the posts...
The two 6 mile runs just seem like too much recovery to me, so I would favor alternating long and short weeks. Or do a little build up after a week of recovery after the half.

I also train by time, partly because that's how my coach does it, and partly because of recovery, esp as I am getting older. I tend to get overuse injuries. My longest run before a marathon or IM is a 3 hour run in the morning, and sometimes add another 30 min the same evening as a long run. So for my long run pace, that is only up to 15-18 miles. But then, having done a few, I know I can get through the rest of it, even though it's not necessarily pretty.

 

[verticalchaos]

Thanks Coach! That does make sense. I was a little iffy on converting to time rather than mileage when I decided to do it - I wasn't sure if the miles would be there. But when I found myself getting all but one mile of a HM in during the 2.5 hour run, I realized I was guesstimating my time and distance pretty well. So yeah...definitely going to keep doing that.