Major systematic problems with Oceaneer's club

[lance435]

I definately think that this is a case where some of the individuals working may not be as good as others, and even if you have no plan on returning to DCL it would benefit others to make a complaint. I have always found Disney to take complaints seriously, and how can they fix something if they don't know about it? Just wanted to encourage you let Disney know (you may even get something for it!)

Like I stated above, this is not a problem of DCL being unaware of one or two problematic counselors or a particular incident that happened. The problem lies in DCL's employment practices, the way they have chosen to structure the kids club, and the amount of resources (or lack thereof) they have chosen to dedicate to quality childcare.

DCL has made a conscious decision to make things the way they are and they are well aware of the consequences of these decisions. And to be honest, based on some of the responses to this thread and what we observed from many of the parents on our cruise, most people don't really care about these shortcomings, so DCL has no motivation to improve.

When I filled out the comment card at the end of the cruise, I made it obvious that everything other than the childcare was great and that the childcare soured our overall experience and we are very unlikely to book DCL in the future as a result. Obviously this was enough to trigger a mandatory follow up phone call, but I wouldn't expect any meaningful changes from DCL until massive numbers of parents lodge similar complaints. In the end, DCL only cares how people vote with their wallets.

 

[anna08]

We observed and experienced these very same issues on our Wonder cruise back in Jan 09 - the OP's description was so similiar to our experience it could have been written by me!! My DD (at the time almost 4) and I are not new to childcare settings, and I understand how things can go awry anywhere children are, but I absolutely agree that the OC is NOT appropriate for 4 and unders.

I guess I was wrongly assuming that Disney would do all things concerning children with care and concern. We were rather astounded at the lack of interest the CMs had in the kids - there were several times that we saw kids crying alone, way too many kids for the number of staff present, and very little attention paid to whether you had the right child when you left! One girl walked up and was bleeding from having cut herself and the CM at the desk only asked "do you need a band-aid?" to a 5yo!! He never even looked at the cut. As a mom and a physician I was appalled.

After the third brief visit there (we only took her when we thought she would enjoy the activity scheduled), we felt it was too unsafe for her. I would venture to say that the majority of the CMs that work there have no special qualifications for childcare, and appeared to us to be no more than disinterested babysitters.

I'm sure our experience was just reflective of the staff present when we were on the ship, but i would recommend that parents hang out and observe a bit before they leave the real little ones there.

 

[kobesam]

We used the club on our cruise last year. DD was 5yrs old at the time. The club is just a glorified daycare centre. It is not worth the extra money you pay to go on Disney. In fact RCCL has a much better kids club and their counselors actualy care.

 

[loveysbydesign]

I'm wondering if the CM's are better on one ship than the other?
It seems like there are more complaints about the Wonder than the Magic. Perhaps that is because on the Wonder children are there for less days and therefore some of the CM's have more of an "I don't care" attitude as they know they be able to connect with the children. We went on our 1st Disney cruise this past May on the Magic and while my kids did like the clubs(ages 10 and 6) they were not overly thrilled with them and I think were a little let down. My 2 y.o. only went to Flounders once and was quite upset there so we ended up spending some on on one time with him while the other 2 were in the clubs, which was really nice! Now my kids did not spend a ton of time in the clubs as we spent alot of time together as a family on the pool deck and at the shows at night. That being said I did notice that some of the CM's seem to really love their job's while others seemed pretty nonchalant and almost "zombie-like".
I have my degree in Early Childhood Education/Early Intervention and do definately agree that Disney needs to take a fresh look at their kids clubs. They need to perhaps add more staff or at the least keep the staff who are there updated through child development training. Most of all they need to make sure that the CM's who are caring for the children love their job and want to be doing that job! They also need to make sure to take cruisers comments seriously! Word of mouth gets around as we all know!

 

[KSandbergFL]

My original post wasn't trying to imply that the kids club is so bad that your kids won't enjoy it or that anyone with kids should avoid DCL. Rather, my point is that, despite advertisements implying otherwise, the kids club is essentially an unsupervised playground where the onus is on your child to deal with any problems that arise, so parents should set their expectations accordingly.

While I don't necessarily agree with your points about the Kids Club personnel being "unqualified" (they seem more over-worked and exasperated than incompetent), I do agree that DCL has a "one size fits all" mentality regarding the kids clubs. They don't have any options for kids (like mine) who just don't enjoy large, noisy group activities. Quiet, introspective kids (especially kids who have never been in day care) will feel intimidated and over-whelmed by the large group size and the noise levels.

I would like the Kids Clubs to have a separate "quiet area", for kids who just want to color or play Legos. The area next to the "Flubber lab" could be sealed off further, and re-designed as a Quiet Room for quiet free play... it shouldn't require more than one DCL staffer to be present.

Our son is 7 now, and on our last cruise we didnt even use the kids club at all. When he needed "down time" we'd just head back to our room, and he would watch cartoons on TV... while mom and me would take turns going to the spa, or drink some wine together on our verandah. It worked out nice for everyone.

Just because the cruise ship has a "kids club" doesn't mean you have to use it!

 

[Skyw]

Hi everyone.
I had read this thread today. I saw the title a while ago. Somehow, today I was inspired to read this. It is interesting the different views of the same place. This was my experience 2 years ago when my son was 3.5. I didn't think the place was unsafe. But I wasn't totally sold on the place. My son was used to part time preschool/daycare. He just didn't like the place. He was worried that I wouldn't pick him up. It was a new place and a new experience. In hind site, I just think he was too small to enjoy it. And the other part that I didn't care for was the "fun" slide that was only open during certain hours. My son is active so looking at the slide was torture. He didn't want to watch movies, or do art. He wanted to move his body. Once again, I needed to take him there during certain activities. He only spent a total of 4-5 hours there. I was OK with that. I wanted him with me anyhow.

Since it has been 2 years, I have had time to really think about it. And honestly, I have made the decision to take him on a cruise when he is older. And not count of the kids clubs (of any cruise line) to entertain him. If I want that, they he can stay at grandmas.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[laurio]

We just came off of the Wonder (Oct 1) and I must say that I'm sorry the OP had such a bad experience.
Our 3 1/2 yr old dd and 2 yr old grandson *loved* both OC and Flounders.

My dd is very outgoing and personable, however when presented with a new situation or group of people she tends to be very shy and reserved.

The grandson *hates* going to daycare, and we assumed he'd be problematic at Flounders, and thought we'd at least get a partial Palo experience. Surprisingly, he wanted to go back every day!!!!

DD liked the club so much that she didn't want to go to pre-school today because her club was sooooooooo much better.

Almost all of the castmembers we spoke with had a Master's degree or better, so I would think that it may be more a staffing issue rather than a knowlege based one. Plus as parents we have to understand the limitations of our children. My two grown kids never went to preschool, and both were painfully shy unless they *really* knew the people they were with, so I rarely had non-family babysitters and would never have even tried to bring them to something so big as a club...it would have been way too much for them to handle.

Hopefully Disney will do something to help resolve the issue for you and your family.

 

[2bundles]

Our kids absolutely LOVED Oceaneers Club. They were 3yr girl and 5yr Boy. They wanted to spend the entire cruise there and would object when we went to collect them!
The counsellors were fantastic and would greet them by name every time including when they were just freely wandering around the ship.

We had no complaints. Does your child usually enjoy Kids Club settings? They are not for everyone.

 

[RylanzDad]

Our kids absolutely LOVED Oceaneers Club. They were 3yr girl and 5yr Boy. They wanted to spend the entire cruise there and would object when we went to collect them!
The counsellors were fantastic and would greet them by name every time including when they were just freely wandering around the ship.

We had no complaints. Does your child usually enjoy Kids Club settings? They are not for everyone.

Can someone asnwer this question? I m sure its been asked a million times. If you child is 90% potty trained but sometimes needs help, but we were only planning on leaving them in the club for like 3-4 hours max. Will they allow them to do it or at least try? He just turned 3, 2 weeks ago and loves kids of all ages, not shy at all, tries to talk to every kid he sees. We sail on Nov 1st. and I know he would have a blast in the club.

 

[lbgraves]

Can someone asnwer this question? I m sure its been asked a million times. If you child is 90% potty trained but sometimes needs help, but we were only planning on leaving them in the club for like 3-4 hours max. Will they allow them to do it or at least try? He just turned 3, 2 weeks ago and loves kids of all ages, not shy at all, tries to talk to every kid he sees. We sail on Nov 1st. and I know he would have a blast in the club.

The CMs cannot help the kids in the bathroom at all in the O Club. The kids have to be completely PTd and able deal with the bathroom completely on their own. You could make sure that he goes when you drop him off and then check on him to have him try again every hour or so. Pullups are not allowed during the day either.

 

[vacationsitis]

Sorry to hear about children not having a good experience. We have been on four different Disney Cruises over the past several years. My kids have always loved the club & their counselors.

 

[Melcatfish]

Like I stated above, this is not a problem of DCL being unaware of one or two problematic counselors or a particular incident that happened. The problem lies in DCL's employment practices, the way they have chosen to structure the kids club, and the amount of resources (or lack thereof) they have chosen to dedicate to quality childcare.

DCL has made a conscious decision to make things the way they are and they are well aware of the consequences of these decisions. And to be honest, based on some of the responses to this thread and what we observed from many of the parents on our cruise, most people don't really care about these shortcomings, so DCL has no motivation to improve.

When I filled out the comment card at the end of the cruise, I made it obvious that everything other than the childcare was great and that the childcare soured our overall experience and we are very unlikely to book DCL in the future as a result. Obviously this was enough to trigger a mandatory follow up phone call, but I wouldn't expect any meaningful changes from DCL until massive numbers of parents lodge similar complaints. In the end, DCL only cares how people vote with their wallets.

Ouch - not sure I like the implication that those of us whose children didn't have a problem in the clubs "don't care about the shortcomings"

I am sorry that you had a bad experience and my initial post on this thread suggested that you express your concerns to DCL but considering you don't personally know me or I assume the other people on this thread I thoroughly resent your comment that we just don't care or are somehow less qualified than you to understand what constitutes a suitable childcare environment for children on a cruise.

I spent time with my daughter in the club and also observed the club in action varying times when waiting to collect or drop off. Of course any environment where you put a large number of children who are not used to each other will encounter problems, my experience was that these were dealt with well however that was a different ship and a different cruise.

Anyway, to reiterate I am truly sorry that you feel your cruise was soured by the childcare provision however I could not read your comment and not respond.

Mel

 

[lance435]

Ouch - not sure I like the implication that those of us whose children didn't have a problem in the clubs "don't care about the shortcomings"

Huh? I was stating observations, not making personal attacks.

It seems many people are having trouble distinguishing between "my children enjoyed the kid's club" and "the kid's club provides quality childcare". They are two nearly orthogonal concepts.

The intent of my original post was to point out (for those who understand the difference and are looking for more than superficial reviews) that I observed some very concerning shortcomings in the structure of the Oceaneer's club. Unfortunately, many of the replies to my post were "sorry to hear that, but our kids enjoyed the club!" ... which is completely missing the point.

Another thing to realize is that one or two experienced CMs that take their jobs seriously can make all the difference. If you happen to drop in while a quality CM is on duty, you likely won't see a lot of the issues I described. For example, on the first day of our cruise, the club seemed well managed and most CMs were attentive as parents were registering their kids and asking questions about the club. After that initial period, there was a significant drop-off most times we stopped in. For me, the quality of a childcare center is measured by how they handle the worst case, not the best case scenario when they're putting on a show for all the new cruisers.

Unfortunately, nothing in the structure of the club guarantees that a quality CM or someone in a accountable/manager-type role will be on duty at all times, so it's a crap shoot when you drop your child off.

After our experience on the Wonder, we would not feel comfortable booking a shore excursion that would require leaving our child in the kid's club. Sure, maybe that day we get a good CM and our child has a great time, but what if we go to drop off and the kid's club is full of disinterested college-aged guys who looked bored to death (which was often case when we visited)? I don't want to be in a position where I have to choose between my child's welfare and losing out on several hundred bucks for a last minute cancellation.

It's obvious from some replies that several parents who got unlucky or took as close of a look as I did at the club agree with my observations. And I think most parents who take a real honest look (over several days and drop offs) at the club would tend to agree with many of my points as well. The only real contradictory points that were made on this thread all came from Magic cruisers, so perhaps there is actually a significant difference in club structure between the two.

And to be clear, I'm not saying that you child will not have fun or cannot get quality care at the kid's club. In fact, I'm sure 90%+ of kids have a great time and encounter no issues. But I could also say that if you let your kid run around Deck 9 on his own or left him alone on your veranda, 90% of the time nothing bad would happen. Is that good enough for you to feel comfortable with it?

 

[doberlady]

We were on the Magic last week. My shy 4 1/2 year old would not stay in the club. It was obvious I was having problems trying to engage her enough to stay and none of the CM's who were standing around watching us came over to try and connect with my child so that maybe she would want to try and stay. We never went back.

Not to say it's their problem if my shy child is having a hard time but since they are the childcare workers it would have been nice for someone to try and help us.

 

[TraciM]

Maybe a lot has to do with the age and disposition of the child. Both of mine were in the Lab on the Wonder and loved it. In addition, I did feel that the CM’s were completely qualified but my kids are very outgoing in that type of atmosphere so maybe that makes a difference. Personally, activities like the Lab are what sold us on DCl but I do understand that everyone’s experience is different. I do not mind paying the higher prices since I do feel I am getting what I pay for. If my kids were unhappy with their experience I am sure I would feel differently and proceed to find something that worked better.

 

[KSandbergFL]

Yesterday in the mail, we received a letter from DCL regarding changes to the kid's club format on the Wonder. The letter doesn't mention the Magic, so for now I'll assume this just applies to the 3-nt/4-nt cruises on the Wonder.

The letter says this (paraphrased):
Beginning in mid-December aboard the Wonder, children in the kid's clubs will be able to select only the events and activities they would like to participate in, without being restricted by age group.... Kids are free to select activities based on their interests, regardless of age. Also, if you have multiple children and they want to participate in the same activity together -- that's possible too!....

...Kids will be able to select their own adventures, from the daily Personal Navigator, just like adults.

This sounds like great news to us -- we only used the kids club once (in 4 cruises), because we didn't like the "one size fits all" structure. This might tempt us to use the kids clubs again on our next cruise (Jan 2010 - 63 days, yay!). We'll see how it works out.

There is a discussion thread here:

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2334294

 

[Dreamer04]

I so rarely post these days, but when I read this thread-I HAd to chime in.

On our very first Wonder cruise, my then 5 year old Dd, was very shy. We tried the Oceaneer's club, but I think she caught my vibe. I didn't like it.

The problem wasn't the number of counselors, it was the quality. One or two who were engaging the children, others standing around chatting. Worse, there was one counselor whom I thought was outright mean to a child.

It was only a 4 day cruise, so I didn't sweat it. I didn't complain, either.

The following year, same problems, longer cruise.

It wasn't until my daughter was in the Lab that she wanted back in the enviorment.

There were individual activites that she enjoyed-like making Flubber, and coloring pillowcases. But, on the whole, the Club was too crowded and not montiored correctly. I wish I had complained as eloquently as you did.

 

[Elisa and Harris]

Just came back from cruise: 11/29-12/3. Was very apprehensive about putting (almost) 3 yo into Oceaneers Club after reading these reports. Did put her in about an hour in the evening; I did stay for a bit myself. The place was, at times, a zoo with chaos and kids everywhere. Then I did stay. But I found the counselors to be attentive to the kids in the smaller groups; the ones that weren't running around like a crazy person. My daughter fits in both the crazy and quiet group; depending on her mood. I stayed with her when she was crazy because then I was afraid she would get hurt and wouldn't be found until it was too late. But all was well. She got to dance with Cinderella and Snow White and was thrilled with that. Like I said, I didn't keep her in there more than an hour; mostly because I did want to spend time with her.

 

[tmbacon]

This is such an interesting post. We have two boys, age 4 and 6, and I have been so curious to see what the child care is like on DCL. I'm glad that I read this post ahead of time, b/c I think it will help me manage expectations once we're on board. I guess this is the main reason I lurk on these boards, so I can plan ahead and be prepared!

I really appreciate everyone's input and opinion on this board, both the "good" and the "not-so-good".

 

[Elisa and Harris]

Here's an example: there are princess clothes to dress up in. My daughter had on snow white and it was too big for her. She kept tripping over the bottom. She would run around and hold it up in her hands but would still trip, get up and keep going. There is a cargo net ladder that leads to the slide. She would trip while on the net and the other kids would just run over her! There was no one watching to help her. On the other hand, I had noted to one of the counselors that the dress was too big for her so I pinned it up but it was still too big. My daughter loved the dress and did not want to take it off. I left her there for story time (she's 3) figuring she won't be running too much, and returned about 45 minutes later to find that they had switched the dress for a better fitting tinkerbell one instead. That made me feel a little better but I still didn't leave her alone too much. I geuss it all depends on who is there. If she was older, I would have felt better about leaving her there more.