Major Policy Change in DVC/DCL Trade Policy UPDATE ON POST #193

[CarolAnnC]

Have you thought about posting on the meet thread for the cruise you want to go on? There may be a DVC member on that cruise that was planning to change/cancel anyway-it's worth a shot-and may give someone else a head's up about the situation...

Thank you for the suggestion. I am rather worn out tonite after this whole upsetting incident, so I think I am going to try and relax and review it again tomorrow.

Vacation is supposed to be fun...

 

[Deb & Bill]

Thank you for the suggestion. I am rather worn out tonite after this whole upsetting incident, so I think I am going to try and relax and review it again tomorrow.

Vacation is supposed to be fun...

Get a good rest. Maybe things will look brighter tomorrow.

 

[Mineu]

I just looked at the DCL Alaska video again-and I can't give it up-so, will probably drop my 3 day from my back to back. I won't do anything just yet-as I know I am being emotional right now because my well laid plans are falling apart. Bottom line-I'm still cruising and I still love Disney! I hope it all works out for you. Your situation should be "workable" you might want to try for someone higher up on Monday. Good luck!!

 

[Inkmahm]

Have you thought about posting on the meet thread for the cruise you want to go on? There may be a DVC member on that cruise that was planning to change/cancel anyway-it's worth a shot-and may give someone else a head's up about the situation...

I don't think that would be allowed under the DIS rules because it is trying to do a rent/trade somewhere other than on the rent/trade board. I do think it is an excellent idea though and maybe if this is really a new policy the DIS could make an official exception to the rules to allow such posts in the meet threads.

 

[Crissup]

Get a good rest. Maybe things will look brighter tomorrow.

We hope so. Carol was very careful in explaining to the member services supervisor that she needed to be very clear in the new policy so she could post it on line. In addition, we have raised the issue to appropriate DVC contacts to ensure the details are accurate and being considered at the appropriate level.

 

[tjkraz]

If DVC is having problems with members trading out, and having rooms not fillled with cash reservations maybe they need to do some self examinations.

I don't think you can put all the blame on the members.

As service and upkeep fall so do bookings. As resorts get bigger and bigger and more of them, there are more rooms to fill.

I think DVC has over supplied the need. I also think they shot themselves in the foot by losing some of their best sales people, the current membership.

If rentals are undermining the bottom line, you can be sure there will changes in the future to address that also.

None of that is really relevant to my point, though. Disney has maintained pretty healthy hotel occupancy levels through a tough economy despite whatever feelings you may have about declines in quality or service.

Why would anyone pay $700+ per night for a Two Bedroom villa when they can get the same accommodation for a third of the price?

Sure there are pitfalls to the rental process and some will still go CRO for the security and flexibility. But more and more people will continue to rent when points are easy to come by for $9-10 each.

 

[Dean]

Is that possible, since Disney owns a percentage of each resort.

eliminating DCL,CC, DC any or all would solve the problem of too many DVC rooms to rent out. The problem might be that the volume of rooms to rent in this economy has outstripped demand. They've always been fighting and uphill battle due to the fact that CRO takes such a large %, I think it's 50% of each rental.

 

[Petraman]

Point taken. Unfortunately, that makes the problem worse in the short term, because people who were thinking "Gee, maybe we should cruise one of these years" suddenly decide, "Crap! We better do that right now before we can't anymore!"

Point taken.... Truth is, they could have got the word out that units were being sold out and taken the same approach they did with the GAD program... as soon as the final units are done, we will be closing down ressies for xx weeks. They could have come up with a plan to make it right to owners who would get caught in the backlash of their poorly conceived plan. They could do lots of things.....
Unfortunately they chose this way.

Well....
I will have a little more info possibly tomorrow, we have a cruise scheduled and we had planned on upgrading our room. I was waiting until my addon contract that I just bought finalized, but now I think I am going to call tomorrow and try. OUr cruise isn't until Nov 2011, so maybe it is simply not affected by this issue.... We'll see

 

[Sammie]

None of that is really relevant to my point, though. Disney has maintained pretty healthy hotel occupancy levels through a tough economy despite whatever feelings you may have about declines in quality or service.

I think Disney resorts have, not sure DVC has for cash reservations. You don't see them upgrading value guests to Polynesian, Grand Floridian or other deluxe resorts.

I am sure rentals are hurting them and it will be interesting to see how they respond to that. Could they charge a surcharge for listing a guest on a reservation other than the member, is that something they can legally do?

 

[Petraman]

eliminating DCL,CC, DC any or all would solve the problem of too many DVC rooms to rent out. The problem might be that the volume of rooms to rent in this economy has outstripped demand. They've always been fighting and uphill battle due to the fact that CRO takes such a large %, I think it's 50% of each rental.

hmmm... interesting point.

The intriguing thing about that approach would be its impact on DVC sales. I know when we bought, we had never been to WDW and really had no real plans to go anytime soon (We LOVE it now). The key was the flexibility to use our points in so many creative ways... DCL, CC, DC, etc. It would be interesting to do a poll to see how many people listed this flexibility as one key reason they bought in the first place.

Personally, I think this will all work itself out without any drastic changes.

 

[Dean]

hmmm... interesting point.

The intriguing thing about that approach would be its impact on DVC sales. I know when we bought, we had never been to WDW and really had no real plans to go anytime soon (We LOVE it now). The key was the flexibility to use our points in so many creative ways... DCL, CC, DC, etc. It would be interesting to do a poll to see how many people listed this flexibility as one key reason they bought in the first place.

Personally, I think this will all work itself out without any drastic changes.

It really wouldn't matter because the flexibility is little more than an illusion where the cash equivalent options are concerned. As for sales, it really doesn't matter when looking at those that own already, only those that buy going forward. Anyone buying without DVC as their main focus is taking a major risk and in most cases, simply throwing both money and flexibility (of using cash) away. Of course DVD can simply change the equation by adjusting the points involved though that approach would take more time to affect behavior.

 

[tjkraz]

I think Disney resorts have, not sure DVC has for cash reservations. You don't see them upgrading value guests to Polynesian, Grand Floridian or other deluxe resorts.

And again, that's exactly my point. There actually are people ready, willing and able to pay hundreds per night for One and Two Bedroom villas. But that market is diminished considerably by the ease of renting points. These days you can't go to a Disney website or open a planning guidebook without reading how much renting points can save.

Most times of the year, two connecting rooms at a moderate will set you back about $450-500 with taxes and fees. Comparatively speaking, a Two Bedroom villa for $700 per night at the BoardWalk or Bay Lake Tower is a pretty substantial upgrade.

But as soon as that vacationer realizes they can rent DVC points and get the same room for $300, Disney has lost a sale. Happens countless times every single day.

I am sure rentals are hurting them and it will be interesting to see how they respond to that. Could they charge a surcharge for listing a guest on a reservation other than the member, is that something they can legally do?

More fees would probably help--although they would be met with a healthy dose of cynicism from owners. DVC has taken steps in the past to try and curb rentals but most owners just roll their eyes and chalk it up to Disney Greed. And while there's an element of truth to that, our trading abilities are also reliant on Disney's ability to sell rooms via CRO. We certainly have a vested interest in CRO bookings of DVC villas.

If the price gap between rentals and CRO were smaller, it wouldn't be as big of an issue. More people would choose CRO for the security, cancellation policy, daily housekeeping, etc. But I can't imagine what circumstances would lead to members demanding $18-20 per point to rent, or how DVC could add $100-200 per day worth of fees to a rental transaction.

DVC owned inventory doesn't help, either. For years DVC had the luxury of bringing SSR buildings on line pretty close to when the points were needed. But over the last couple of years they've been sitting on literally hundreds of rooms at BLT, AKV and SSR.

It's one thing for CRO to sell the inventory created by member trades, but when you add the hundreds of DVD-owned units their jobs get much more difficult.

 

[PSU]

Wow - been off these boards for a while (Dec last trip)...was just planning to buy more points but this is really discouraging...penny wise pound foolish I think

 

[tammymacb]

If I was stuck with a new policy that left me with 1500 points, I would be livid. I think my single goal in life would be getting them put back where I could use them.

My issue over and over and over again, with DVC is the poor communication with members. I'm sorry, but *somebody* knew about this policy change before yesterday. Yet, it wasn't shared with MS so earlier calls were left with...I'll call back later. No big deal. If there was even a whisper of an issue, suddenly being on the phone over your lunch hour would no longer be an issue. But, sharing change with members, as usual, seems to be an afterthought.

Anyone want to bet how long the '11 point charts for DCL is up on the DVMmember website?

What I've learned from DVC so far is this. I better like my home resort. Because, that's all I really have. Over and over, perks disappear. We've lost perks in our home resorts, we've lost II, which IMO was a much better trade value for off property, and now DCL.

I can't imagine why resale prices continue to drop...

 

[Dean]

What I've learned from DVC so far is this. I better like my home resort. Because, that's all I really have. Over and over, perks disappear. We've lost perks in our home resorts, we've lost II, which IMO was a much better trade value for off property, and now DCL.

Exactly, anyone should have considered this going in as these type of changes were always likely.

I can't imagine why resale prices continue to drop...

I don't think there's any relationship to the perks issue, they were always just fluff, smoke and mirrors.

 

[Brian Noble]

While Tim's point regarding rentals is a good one, I don't think there is anything DVC could do to add enough friction to the rental process without doing real harm to legitimate usage situations. Lord knows Wyndham has tried, and they've failed miserably. The cost of rentals has gone up only slightly, but the nuisance factor to owners is high.

On the other hand, the fraction of guests who are actually "plugged in" to guidebooks/planning sites is shockingly small. I suspect the soft RevPAR numbers are more about the economy generally than the point-rental market specifically.

But, at the end of the day, I'll return to the same observation that Dean and a few others are making. If you want to use your points for anything *other than* DVC accommodations, it is much more efficient to rent the points out, and use the proceeds to obtain the vacation you desire. True, it is a little bit of work, but you could keep that work to a minimum by working with David or a similar service.

 

[silmarg]

This is very sad to read. While I dont expect to ever use points for DCL, I think the option of using DVC points on a DCL is a somewhat valuable option. The way these things come out from DVD is terrible from a member satisfaction perspective.

I am no expert on Reservation Status points, but can you use them on an ABD? They sound fantastic - but seem sooo expensive. Maybe thats one way to turn these lemons into lemonade.

My take on the CRO / Cash Discounts / Rentals is this:
While Dinsey brass talk about curtailing discounts, their client base has come to expect it and I don't think a favorable economy will eliminate the discounts. It seems like the only thing Disney can charge more for and never give a discount on is the one thing that makes Disney the unique destination it is - the Parks. Hotels and food are commodity type assets (assets that can be found much cheaper just miles away).

In some respects, I see Disney Hotels in a similar situation that General Motors has been in for the past 15 years. Folks are simply addicted to rebates on GM cars - and wont buy the vast majority of them with out significant rebates. Seriously, who would pay rack rate for a 2BR DVC villa? I make a handsome living, but that price is totally crazy.

I think DVC resales are where they are because the cash discounts are so great - and everyone knows they are not going away anytime soon. DVD has basically abandoned ROFR (even SSR in the $50, OKW in the $40s and VBR in the $30s are passing). DVD is probably having a hard enough time reselling the points they are accumulating via foreclosure.

 

[ELKHUNTER]

Just got off the phone with member services to check and was told that they are absolutely booking Disney Cruises for DVC members using points. She said no such policy change.

 

[Mineu]

Really-the MS agent I just spoke to read me the "press release" about the popularity of certain itineraries and the Dream and that DVC availability was gone for the Alaska cruises. Did you ask for for a specific date?

 

[ELKHUNTER]

No specific date just asked if DVC discontinued booking on cruises using points and the CM said absolutely not and that members can still book cruises. Told her i read it on the forum and she said she has heard nothing about it.