Major Policy Change in DVC/DCL Trade Policy UPDATE ON POST #193

[DebbieB]

Here's a thought... maybe they should offer to return points to original status to those people who are going to be caught by this unanounced change. It would stink to not be able to cruise, but at least then your points wouldn't be in "non-DVC resort" limbo

Just a thought....

What happens to the original reservation? Will DCL refund it to DVC if cancelled?

 

[tikimimi]

We spontaneously booked a cruise on points for next month. I am so glad we did, because originally we had thought we would hold out for next year. I am so unhappy to hear of this change. We were unhappy when several places were pulled from the Concierge Collection, unhappy when RCI was brought on board (we own a different time share and trade through RCI, and the caliber of resorts is oh so different from Disney), and we were unhappy with the failure to notify re: valet parking. I understand the economics outlined in previous posts between DCL and DVC rooms through CRO, and I understand the financial times in which we live, but it makes me very sad that Disney is really allowing its reputation, commitment to customers, and level of service to sink rather than maintaining the quality of service that made them so distinguishable. What used to be magical and wonderful seems to be qickly becoming the same ole, same ole. It's sad. Carol Ann, I do hope they'll have some sort of satisfactory remedy for you.

 

[Brian Noble]

Will DCL refund it to DVC if cancelled?

I would think so, provided the change is made prior to DCL's own cancellation-penalty windows.

 

[Brian Noble]

I understand the financial times in which we live, but it makes me very sad that Disney is really allowing its reputation, commitment to customers, and level of service to sink rather than maintaining the quality of service that made them so distinguishable.

Fair enough. But, (assuming there really is an imbalance in cruise fares vs. room revenue) who eats the loss? DCL? DVC? The Members? And, why them rather than someone else?

 

[Scott H]

Carol, very sorry to her what you are experiencing.

We sailed on the Barcelona to Dover repo and the first Baltic cruise. These sailings were far from full, the second Baltic was also reported to be down in numbers of cruiser. This was to the point the wait staff was vocal in stating their tips would be down due to the lower number of cruisers.

I have been on cruises where I have felt as a DVC member we were overpaying as folks who booked later received significant discounts on less than full cruises. No sour grapes as I knew what I was booking and the point cost to me, just the nature of the cruise business.

 

[CarolAnnC]

We can cancel but our points will become Reservation Points, which means they cannot be used at the DVC resorts. Since they cannot be used at DCL with this new policy, well that does not leave us a choice that we would utilize. We typically stay either at DVC resorts, or on the DCL...

 

[Mineu]

Thank you. I have written today to Member Satisfaction, so I will let you all know here what the response is from them.

What upsets me is that there were computer issues last Sunday, which caused me to be on the phone with them 45 minutes, most of it I was holding on. If not for that, I would have rebooked then, but they were closing.

I really think that your situation is unfair! If you already have a reservation booked on points and there are cabins available on the cruise that you want to move to-you should not be considered a new DVC booking-in fact they have already committed to DCL on your behalf and they are actually making additional money from your move with the $95 change fee...

 

[CarolAnnC]

Carol, very sorry to her what you are experiencing.

We sailed on the Barcelona to Dover repo and the first Baltic cruise. These sailings were far from full, the second Baltic was also reported to be down in numbers of cruiser. This was to the point the wait staff was vocal in stating their tips would be down due to the lower number of cruisers.

I have been on cruises where I have felt as a DVC member we were overpaying as folks who booked later received significant discounts on less than full cruises. No sour grapes as I knew what I was booking and the point cost to me, just the nature of the cruise business.

Hi Scott, I understand what you are saying. As DVC Members, we realize the point usage was not a good "value" but we chose to use our membership that way with the full knowledge of such.

But, with this situation I am now in, I feel like I am being penalized unfairly by not allowing me to rebook, especially with the circumstances of my multiple calls this week. I am pretty disillusioned right now, and hoping that DVC will do the right thing and reconsider this fiasco.

Perhaps they should have kept on Holland America as a choice for members since DCL either chooses to, or cannot accommodate DVC members...

 

[tikimimi]

Fair enough. But, (assuming there really is an imbalance in cruise fares vs. room revenue) who eats the loss? DCL? DVC? The Members? And, why them rather than someone else?

The loss is not the point - the level of service, the commitment to customers, and its reputation could have been held to a different standard in how DVCers were notified and how existing cruises were handled. The name Disney used to be synonymous with a model of service, commitment, and reputation to be envied.

 

[lilpooh108]

For those who are posting that you "can" still book w/points and that it just depends on availability..my question is this--OP is talking about the fact that there is no more "rebooking" with points--is this true across the board? Sorry if this has been beaten to death, but I just hopped on the thread and I'm kinda freaking out...we were planning on rebooking a cash DCL cruise which we made a deposit on. We're actually in ROFR for a small add on b/c we wanted additional points for Alaska next year.

I understand that DVC allotted rooms are sold out (via points)--but does the new policy mean that DVC MS will no longer call DCL for you to "transfer" the booking over to points? If so, I'm kinda screwed ....

 

[csharpwv]

I have been astounded a little by reading the number of people who have been upgraded for 'free' from Moderate or even Value Resorts - to "Deluxe Villa" resorts. $89.00 a night for a Studio at Old Key West or Saratoga? REALLY?

Just like being in the stock market - I guess we have to 'wait out' the slump in the economy and the vacation market.

At some point DVC will pay off - but that time is not right now.

Don't get me wrong - we have vacationed FAR more since becoming DVC members than we did before - and I still love DVC and I'm confident that we won't sell our contracts due to the current DCL drought.

Since DVC has offered SO MANY 'free' cruise incentives for new resort purchases and add on contracts - it's hard to imagine that this current lack of availability isn't related to the number of cruises that DVC used as incentives.

We are booked on one of those incentive cruises in December and are VERY excited! HAHA

So we will just have to wait and see on this one!

.....
.....



Still waiting.....

 

[tikimimi]

Fair enough. But, (assuming there really is an imbalance in cruise fares vs. room revenue) who eats the loss? DCL? DVC? The Members? And, why them rather than someone else?

The loss is not the point - the level of service, the commitment to customers, and its reputation could have been held to a different standard in how DVCers were notified and how existing cruises were handled. The name Disney used to be synonymous with a model of service, commitment, and reputation to be envied.

I'm still a Disney nut, Disneyphile, and Disney Cruise Addict, but let's just say my rose colored MM glasses have been retinted.

 

[Cmbar]

For those wondering why it isn't all "just Disney"---it's important to remember that the various business units in the company are each expected to turn a profit *on their own*. For example, Parks & Resorts is judged separately from the Studio division. A really good year at the box office doesn't mean that it's okay that the parks have lost attendance this year. What's more, that happens *within* business units too---Disneyland resort has to be profitable independently of Walt Disney World, and vice versa. One consequence of this arrangement is that DCL has to be "paid" by DVC for each DVC member who takes a cruise. That is a "cost" that goes against DVC's books, which must be offset by rental receipts from the rooms turned over to CRO for reservation-point bookings.
This isn't (as much of) a problem for booking at other WDW or DLR hotels, because they, too, have been renting for lower prices. The problem only shows up when one price (DCL cruise fares) goes in the opposite direction of another (WDW hotel rates). But, that's absolutely what is happening. The Wonder is getting *much* more per night for Alaska than it ever did out of Florida. And, now that the Dream is coming on line, a lot of people who did the Bahamian cruises before are thinking they might want to try the new ship---my wife is paying about 35% more in 2011 for a 4-day Bahamian than she did in 2010, and that cruise now only has verandah staterooms left, more than 9 months prior to sailing.

Here's what I don't understand. Isn't the very nature of DVC contrary to the Resort buisness units. I mean DVC is basically stealing customers from the resorts, and what's worse is that DVC is stealing "devout" Disney customers from the resorts. Therefore as DVC continues to build DVC resort (in my opinion they are now overbuiliding) the imbalance will continue to grow. ALSO add to that the resort division just annouced and is builing the all suite animation hotel on the old Pop land, the demand for DVC units for larger families is going to go down considerably. I just don't believe that people come to Disney to have a full kitchen and therefore must buy DVC units through CRO. It could be for the Deluxe hotels, but the Villas are more than the Deluxe hotels anyways and don't usually fit more people. A one bedroom unit can't sleep five (except AKVK and BLT) like GF or Poly can. I think our trade power is going to go down significantly. If the Resorts aren't profitable why are they building a new resort and if DVC isn't why are they planning on new resorts. They are going to overbuild. I see the imbalance you speak of in the DCL and I am afraid we will not be able to use our points on cruises in the future. This is really sad.

 

[Mineu]

For those who are posting that you "can" still book w/points and that it just depends on availability..my question is this--OP is talking about the fact that there is no more "rebooking" with points--is this true across the board? Sorry if this has been beaten to death, but I just hopped on the thread and I'm kinda freaking out...we were planning on rebooking a cash DCL cruise which we made a deposit on. We're actually in ROFR for a small add on b/c we wanted additional points for Alaska next year.

I understand that DVC allotted rooms are sold out (via points)--but does the new policy mean that DVC MS will no longer call DCL for you to "transfer" the booking over to points? If so, I'm kinda screwed ....

I called MS right before they closed today as I am "in the process" of transferring my Alaska cruise to DVC and without pulling up my information the agent said Alaska was unavailable as well as our other reservation for the Dream in March. Other members were told nothing until September 2011. This all happened today, 8/20.

 

[CarolAnnC]

For those who are posting that you "can" still book w/points and that it just depends on availability..my question is this--OP is talking about the fact that there is no more "rebooking" with points--is this true across the board? Sorry if this has been beaten to death, but I just hopped on the thread and I'm kinda freaking out...we were planning on rebooking a cash DCL cruise which we made a deposit on. We're actually in ROFR for a small add on b/c we wanted additional points for Alaska next year.

I understand that DVC allotted rooms are sold out (via points)--but does the new policy mean that DVC MS will no longer call DCL for you to "transfer" the booking over to points? If so, I'm kinda screwed ....

I was told today by Member Services that the new policy means that there will be no new bookings or rebookings until September 2011, at a minimum. The first CM I spoke to today stated that there is "no availability" for DVC members. Since I had just received contrary information on two different days this week, I naturally asked for a Supervisor to discuss this further. I was very disappointed to hear confirmation from him. If anyone actually can book a cruise on DVC points going forward, I would be interested to hear the details. Thus far, I hear of those who say it "may" be possible, but nobody who has actually done so since yesterday...as the Supervisor states.

 

[Brian Noble]

Isn't the very nature of DVC contrary to the Resort buisness units. I mean DVC is basically stealing customers from the resorts, and what's worse is that DVC is stealing "devout" Disney customers from the resorts.

No. DVC is a *huge* profit center for Parks & Resorts---though that's due to sales. The ongoing Dues also provide some profits in the "management fee", but that's relatively modest. As long as DVC has inventory to sell, it's a Big Win in the current quarter. And, the current quarter is the only thing that counts on Wall Street.

Now, if they ever get to the point where they *don't* have inventory to sell, well, that's a problem. But, I never expect them to get there. There's a lot of land left they could build on.

That said, they have converted some cash rooms to DVC---the North Wing at CR, and the top two floors of AKL.

The loss is not the point - the level of service, the commitment to customers, and its reputation could have been held to a different standard in how DVCers were notified and how existing cruises were handled.

Swell. But *someone* has to put the lost revenue that isn't going to be earned on that cabin on their books. There's no Money Fairy to make up for it. I suppose you could argue that Disney should just take the loss, just like "they used to." But, it's one thing to give a guest who dropped their ice cream cone a new one. It's another to toss out a multi-thousand-dollar cruise booking and swallow hard.

 

[gkrykewy]

Can this be reasonably described as a policy? Sounds like a 1-year moratorium on DVC bookings, if anything. How bizarre.

 

[Petraman]

The loss is not the point - the level of service, the commitment to customers, and its reputation could have been held to a different standard in how DVCers were notified and how existing cruises were handled. The name Disney used to be synonymous with a model of service, commitment, and reputation to be envied.

I'm still a Disney nut, Disneyphile, and Disney Cruise Addict, but let's just say my rose colored MM glasses have been retinted.

Good point.
Truth is, they may have had no choice in making this change and we are not always going to be able to do whatever we want (try booking Christmas 2 months before)....
The real problem here is once again, how they handled it. This situation is obviously not something they just noticed this week. They had to see it coming, so how about preparing your owners for the change by giving them a heads up. Sounds like they didn't even have the respect to let their own employees know what was happening, so now they will take the brunt of people's frustration.

I am with you tikimini... this doesn't change my absolute passion for all things Disney, just takes some sparkle off of dealing with DVC

 

[Brian Noble]

how about preparing your owners for the change by giving them a heads up.

Point taken. Unfortunately, that makes the problem worse in the short term, because people who were thinking "Gee, maybe we should cruise one of these years" suddenly decide, "Crap! We better do that right now before we can't anymore!"

 

[Dean]

Since booking a DCL trip is an "exchange" of points, and since all exchange options must be negotiated annually with the individual venues we are allowed to trade into.....I'm going to guess this is the result of negotiation breakdown between DCL and DVC. My guess is that too many of the "favorite" booking catagories are being booked up by DVC and taking reservations away from DCL cash reservations.

DVD negotiates price with DCL and looks to match the cost to what they can get out of the points by rental through CRO or MS.

My guess would be that DVD were having trouble getting cash for the points so they wanted to shut off the inflow of points they'd have to rent. You may see other programs affected if this is the case.

Over the years I've preached how both the costs and the program itself was not guaranteed and that one should not buy to use for the exchange options, these type of things are exactly why.

I've heard the number 10% of DCL cruises available to DVC points exchanges, I wonder if they've either cut back that amount OR they were routinely going over and have begun to enforce to 10%. I doubt this is DCL alone as I'm sure they'd love to get a discounted full price for the entire ship.

DVD has the right to make this change, they clearly list the option to make changes or even eliminate the program unilaterally.