Major Policy Change in DVC/DCL Trade Policy UPDATE ON POST #193

[gdulaney]

We've been very happy with our DVC membership. We also bought with the intentions of cruising -- and we have done so every year.

While I understand that there is a limited supply of DVC rooms per cruise (notice I stated that I understand, not that I agree with or like).... I am concerned that we are about to board a B2B2B cruise on the Wonder. Does that mean that we will lose all three DVC "rebooking" opportunities unless we rebook (and possibly pay) with cash? That would be a very bad thing.

Ginny

 

[tjkraz]

I understand that cruising is not the smartest way to use our points but that is the reason we bought in. Directed by the what the sales team told us. Wanted to buy future vacations when we had the cash in our younger years to vacation in our 60's!! Just like slimy car salespeople DVC can now be added to that list!!

If that was your intent then, in my opinion, you were living on borrowed time from the start. As others have stated, there are no caps on the annual point changes to DCL charts. It is entirely possible that the number of points required to cruise could double or triple in just a short number of years. Additional booking fees could be imposed with no restrictions.

And they are free to make any changes to availability that they deem appropriate. This particular change has been pretty transparent due to the timing and scope. But going forward DCL could simply lower the number of cabins accessible to DVC members right from the start. The only obvious impact would be more phone calls ending with "sorry, there is no availability for that date and cabin."

At best, a salesperson is only going to be able to tell you how the program operates at the present time. They have no inside knowledge as to what changes may occur months or years down the road.

The DVC Product Understanding Checklist makes it pretty clear that the vast majority of our rights lie in booking of the DVC resorts, and that exchange programs can be modified or eliminated at any time.

 

[Cmbar]

I'm sorry some of you guys aren't happy. But to me, the base product is 95% the same as it's always been.

Except now we have more choices, including a monorail resort , a DLR respert and soon to be Hawaii. We have free Internet, nice new TV's and access to the dining plans. And if the downside is that it's hard to book a DCL cruise to Alaska on points, it just doesn't seem that big a downfall.

Something about message boards brings out the doom and gloom in people. When you feel that way, take a trip to Disney. Set on your balcony, soak it all in , and ask if it's really all that bad. If it is, time to sell.

You do know they suspended all cruises, not just Alaska right through next Septemeber of 2011. This isn't "simply" availability issue. There was plenty of availability on Thursday and then NONE on Friday. That is not "its hard to book a DCL to Alaska". While they are saying the option to book cruises still exists, it doesn't in reality. So we will see how they rectify it in the future. I think it would be nice if they offered another cruise line.

For me I am thinking of renting my points and cruising RCL. Save money, get a better cabin for the price and I don't have to worry about a DVC Sales presentation going on with a few lies being told that will just irritate me.

 

[tjkraz]

I was just on a Disney Cruise and attended a DVC meeting. This is one of the reasons I was able to convince DH to let me buy into a DVC in the near future. Maybe I should reconsider my decision?

I think it depends on what role cruising would play in your purchase decision. Cruising is, and has always been, a poor way to use points. Points go much further at the DVC resorts. Owning points specifically for cruise use has never been particularly wise.

None of us know exactly what occurred last week but it is reasonable to assume that some cruise availability will continue into the future. What we don't know is what sort of availability will exist and what it will cost. Point values for cruises have always been subject to change at Disney's whim. Members have always had to live with these unknowns.

If you are willing to live with those unknowns for occasional cruise use, then DVC is still a very economical way to save money on villa resort stays.

 

[TisBit]

You do know they suspended all cruises, not just Alaska right through next Septemeber of 2011. This isn't "simply" availability issue. There was plenty of availability on Thursday and then NONE on Friday. That is not "its hard to book a DCL to Alaska". While they are saying the option to book cruises still exists, it doesn't in reality. So we will see how they rectify it in the future. I think it would be nice if they offered another cruise line.

For me I am thinking of renting my points and cruising RCL. Save money, get a better cabin for the price and I don't have to worry about a DVC Sales presentation going on with a few lies being told that will just irritate me.

My understanding is that they stopped the bookings and are making "call lists" to offer the rooms to people who want to book, so it doesn't seem as cut and dry as what you are saying. Most likely, when they lowered the number of cabins available, they stopped booking to prevent a "rush" of reservations while the systems were being updated and then they will use the call list to serve people in the order of their request.

The option to cruise is still available, but it is not guaranteed availability. Just like if you call for a room tomorrow it might be all booked up. They are changing the rules, but that happens and if you think that things don't change I guess you have never dealt with any business before. Contracts change with phone/cable/electric/credit card/banks and pretty much any other company out there. When you start with them things might be one way and over time they change.....that is life and DVC is no exception. There will be good changes (such as free internet) and bad changes, you just have to decide if you still want to do business with them if things change too much.

 

[JimMIA]

I was just on a Disney Cruise and attended a DVC meeting. This is one of the reasons I was able to convince DH to let me buy into a DVC in the near future. Maybe I should reconsider my decision?

I certainly would not use anything except the ability to use points at DVC resorts as a justification for buying DVC. Anything else could change, and some of the benefits touted by DVC timeshare salesmen change pretty regularly -- sometimes for the better, sometimes for worse.

The bottom line with DVC is you are not really guaranteed anything but the ability to use your points at your home resort -- subject to availability -- and IF they allow booking at non-home resorts, you are guaranteed at least a one-month booking advantage.

 

[Cmbar]

My understanding is that they stopped the bookings and are making "call lists" to offer the rooms to people who want to book, so it doesn't seem as cut and dry as what you are saying. Most likely, when they lowered the number of cabins available, they stopped booking to prevent a "rush" of reservations while the systems were being updated and then they will use the call list to serve people in the order of their request.

The option to cruise is still available, but it is not guaranteed availability. Just like if you call for a room tomorrow it might be all booked up. They are changing the rules, but that happens and if you think that things don't change I guess you have never dealt with any business before. Contracts change with phone/cable/electric/credit card/banks and pretty much any other company out there. When you start with them things might be one way and over time they change.....that is life and DVC is no exception. There will be good changes (such as free internet) and bad changes, you just have to decide if you still want to do business with them if things change too much.

My understanding is that the call list is for those who have already committed the points to a cruise. No new reservations are being taken at this point. So essentially those that wanted to book a cruise cannot because of availability. My point is it isn't "simply" a matter of availability. It is more a matter of an imbalance of DVC to DCL demand I suppose. No one really knows why on Thursday you could book cruises and on Friday you couldn't. It certainly wasn't because there were only two cabins left and they all got filled up. If that were the case then there wouldn't have been a press release for the MS agents telling you of a new policy. I think there should have been more warning. At least a note on the website.

Yes things change, but at least the Credit card companies tell you before your rates change and such. DVC just arbitrarily cuts off perks. One day you are parking your car at BWV for free the next you are being told you owe money. One day you are told you can book that cruise but to WAIT until you are on board for you next sailing but the next day you are told, no way you can't book that cruise now or when you get onboard.

I love Disney just like the rest of you, but to excuse their blatent disregard for the membership as "just business" is to simply say "expect less and you won't be dissppointed". I don't want to expect less, I want to expect what they told me. Why now is it ok to say one thing and mean another?

Why when they told a recent cruiser that the point charts hadn't changed IMPLYING that the structure of the chart hadn't changed is that somehow now the person's fault for not reading between the lines. I was kinda hoping that they would have more integrity.

I love how everyone keeps mentioning the free internet, how long till that is gone. It can't be long now.

 

[ELKHUNTER]

My understanding is that the call list is for those who have already committed the points to a cruise. No new reservations are being taken at this point. So essentially those that wanted to book a cruise cannot because of availability. My point is it isn't "simply" a matter of availability. It is more a matter of an imbalance of DVC to DCL demand I suppose. No one really knows why on Thursday you could book cruises and on Friday you couldn't. It certainly wasn't because there were only two cabins left and they all got filled up. If that were the case then there wouldn't have been a press release for the MS agents telling you of a new policy. I think there should have been more warning. At least a note on the website.

Yes things change, but at least the Credit card companies tell you before your rates change and such. DVC just arbitrarily cuts off perks. One day you are parking your car at BWV for free the next you are being told you owe money. One day you are told you can book that cruise but to WAIT until you are on board for you next sailing but the next day you are told, no way you can't book that cruise now or when you get onboard.

I love Disney just like the rest of you, but to excuse their blatent disregard for the membership as "just business" is to simply say "expect less and you won't be dissppointed". I don't want to expect less, I want to expect what they told me. Why now is it ok to say one thing and mean another?

Why when they told a recent cruiser that the point charts hadn't changed IMPLYING that the structure of the chart hadn't changed is that somehow now the person's fault for not reading between the lines. I was kinda hoping that they would have more integrity.

I love how everyone keeps mentioning the free internet, how long till that is gone. It can't be long now.

I totally Agree!

 

[danandnan]

I think when we cruise in Oct there is going to be a few people going to the DVC meeting expressing there feelings. The way it sounds DVC and DCL are at odds. If there are new people on the cruise that want to become DVC members this problem will not help there sales pitch when they get wind of what is going on.

 

[tjkraz]

My point is it isn't "simply" a matter of availability. It is more a matter of an imbalance of DVC to DCL demand I suppose. No one really knows why on Thursday you could book cruises and on Friday you couldn't. It certainly wasn't because there were only two cabins left and they all got filled up. If that were the case then there wouldn't have been a press release for the MS agents telling you of a new policy. I think there should have been more warning. At least a note on the website.

I agree this could have been handled better. The recurring theme here appears to be that DCL reduced inventory. If so, this could have all been avoided if they were doing a better job of tracking inventory allocated to DVC in the first place.

Beyond that I'm not sure what else DVC could have done to help members. They did create the call list and from CarolAnnC's posts it sounds like that is yielding some positive results. She was initially unable to book anything and then got her re-booking a day later so it sounds like DVC is making some positive things happen.

This just came down the pipe barely one business day ago so we'll have to see how the situation continues to evolve.

I love how everyone keeps mentioning the free internet, how long till that is gone. It can't be long now.

Is there any reason to think that free Internet is being discontinued? No need for scare tactics or FUD to try and make a point.

 

[JOANNEL]

I think when we cruise in Oct there is going to be a few people going to the DVC meeting expressing there feelings. The way it sounds DVC and DCL are at odds. If there are new people on the cruise that want to become DVC members this problem will not help there sales pitch when they get wind of what is going on.

You had better believe it. I hope the DVC members on the member cruise next month let them have it!!

 

[Cmbar]

Is there any reason to think that free Internet is being discontinued? No need for scare tactics or FUD to try and make a point.

No reason to believe it, but there wasn't a reason to believe Valet would be pulled in a day or that Disney cruises were all of a sudden not available. Or how about those point charts changing with NO WARNING as I was buying my BLT points with just enough points to vacation the way I was told I could. After all it had not been done in 10 years or so. I sure wish someone had been on the boards highlighting all those possibilities prior to me buying. You know since we can't rely on the guides to tell the whole truth - oh wait thats right I have to know what they are really saying when they are talking because it's all a "sales pitch".

No scare tactics, Just reality. I mean you keep talking about keeping it realistic... DVC is a business. Is there any reason to believe they would continue to offer free internet. Why would they do that, it goes against business to offer something for free doesn't. Or how about those discounts on the AP passes. I mean really, do you really have to give DVC members a discount ---they are already committed to coming to Disney with the DVC points. They HAVE to buy tickets so why in the world would you give them a discount? That is stupid for the bottom line, right.

 

[Cmbar]

I think when we cruise in Oct there is going to be a few people going to the DVC meeting expressing there feelings. The way it sounds DVC and DCL are at odds. If there are new people on the cruise that want to become DVC members this problem will not help there sales pitch when they get wind of what is going on.

Please report back if they are still telling people some "misinformation". I know I will be at the meeting when I cruise in late Oct. It is one thing to say "my guide is always up front and honest" because the truth is there is no way to know what a guide is saying to a guest when they are in a one on one sales presentation. But when they stand up there on the ship and give this standard presentation and knowing lie about point charts and cruises it is another. Hopefully there will be more clarification as the week/months go on. I am mad now but maybe there will be a better explanation forthcoming that will make sense. But that would require DVC letting the members know. So I won't hold my breath!

 

[Deb & Bill]

New book at the DVC Kiosks in the parks and hotels -

Only photos of BLT, VCG, AKV and SSR. They ask which one you are most interested in. They tell you that you can buy X many points for $Y a point to only stay at that resort. Because, ultimately, that's the only thing the POS guarantees. And only as long as DVC and Disney manage those resorts.

Think it would go over very well???

 

[LisaS]

I love how everyone keeps mentioning the free internet, how long till that is gone. It can't be long now.

The "free" Internet is likely paid for by our dues, just like the "free" WDW transportation. They are unlikely to take something away that is paid for by members. On the other hand, when a member trades out for a cruise, DVC has to pay for it. If they can't recover the cost (by renting DVC rooms via CRO) then they will incur a loss. I suspect that things had gotten out of balance and they had to suspend DCL trades until things improve.

Why did they suspend trades out to DCL so abruptly? Who knows. Sounds like someone wasn't monitoring this as closely as they should have been and when the problem was noticed they had to take drastic action to protect quarterly profits. With the membership growing, lots of members trading out for cruises and CRO having to offer discounts to fill rooms, it's not hard to imagine how such a problem could arise.

But while I can understand the problem, I'm not happy about how they handled it, just as I wasn't happy when Mousekeeping marched into each studio at WDW and pulled the coffee mugs from the kitchenettes back during "mug gate" or when they reduced the pool temperature to 78 degrees during "pool gate".

 

[Minne's Friend]

That's the part that I think is really unfair if this really is a policy change. 1,500 points is crazy to have in reservaton points! Definitely complain until you get to someone who can help on this. It isn't reasonable for you to get stuck with so many points that can't even be used at WDW through no fault of your own.

I hate to disagree with you but this is OP own fault - Disney did not all of a sudden call her out of the blue and tell her to rebook her cruises. She is angry because DCL did not read her mind - that this is what she wanted to do and keep rooms handy just for her. I am sorry that there is no availablity for her to rebook on points - DCL is a limited room availablity that is just the way it is.

I just got off the phone with MS and booked a trip for February 2012 - was told that as of this time no avaiablity for 2011 through October and limited through December 2011. DCL is not stopping the booking of cruises on points. This is an availability issue not a policy change.

I am very sorry for Carol and hope that someone can help her out.

 

[Petraman]

I agree this could have been handled better. The recurring theme here appears to be that DCL reduced inventory. If so, this could have all been avoided if they were doing a better job of tracking inventory allocated to DVC in the first place.
Well said...
Beyond that I'm not sure what else DVC could have done to help members. They did create the call list and from CarolAnnC's posts it sounds like that is yielding some positive results. She was initially unable to book anything and then got her re-booking a day later so it sounds like DVC is making some positive things happen.
This is true as well. Hopefully they will take into consideration that the DVC system for using DCL is set up to discourage anyone from canceling and not taking another cruise by forcing points to go into "reservation status". The problem is going to arise for those who did what they were encouraged to do and booked 16 months out only to find they can't cruise that week now. But even if they are willing to move to another date, they can't. C'mon Disney, at least move their points back to normal status. One other thing, it truly is too early to tell, I only hope this call list isn't just another call list like many of us have tried to get a AKV concierge room or something... sounds nice but never seems to pay off

This just came down the pipe barely one business day ago so we'll have to see how the situation continues to evolve.

It is human nature for us to fear the unknown, but all too often what we fear never comes to pass. Let's hope that is not a sign of the future, but just DVC trying to figure out how to balance out what they can offer and what we can expect. I am still hopeful.

 

[Petraman]

I was just on a Disney Cruise and attended a DVC meeting. This is one of the reasons I was able to convince DH to let me buy into a DVC in the near future. Maybe I should reconsider my decision?

I wouldn't say this is a reason to simply rule out DVC. But, make sure when you buy that you don't make the mistake many of us have made in putting too much stock in the sales person's promises.

Are we disappointed that they made 2 huge changes in reallocation of points making it really hard on people who have to only travel on weekdays? Yes. Are we saddened that it now become increasingly more difficult if not impossible to book cruises? Yes. But honestly, we love Disney so much and the DVC experience is such a great one with the other things they do right, we have just had to adjust and we are OK with that...

Just remember, you are not buying a piece of Disney Magic, you are buying a Disney themed timeshare.... no more no less.

Hope you can convince your DH that there is plenty more to enjoy from it even without the cruise (although I personally don't think they will go away totally)

 

[Sammie]

Guess it's been a long, slow spiral then since JL has only been on the job since '04.

Actually if you rememeber I was very pleased with Jim at first. Gradually he has eaten way at any confidence I had in him, beginning with the change to banking procedures and that lovely comment he made that, the members needed the change because they were always having trouble understanding the old system. For years no one had problems with it.

It was changed to suit their needs, not the needs of the members. And so it began.

And I am sure there is a benefit to DVC with this most recent situation too. But yet it will be blamed on the membership.

 

[Petraman]

New book at the DVC Kiosks in the parks and hotels -

Only photos of BLT, VCG, AKV and SSR. They ask which one you are most interested in. They tell you that you can buy X many points for $Y a point to only stay at that resort. Because, ultimately, that's the only thing the POS guarantees. And only as long as DVC and Disney manage those resorts.

Think it would go over very well???

IMHO Nope....