* * *Major News* * * about Epcot's Spaceship Earth

[YoHo]

Well, since Pirates, Haunted, Mr. Toad and Jungle cruis still pack them in like crazy, it's a moot question.

This comes up every so often, but while you may not like it, Disney doesn't have a problem those rides, it's the newer ones that are the trouble.

 

[Linzybrooke]

I had a feeling that you would bring The Disney Store into this thread too.

Quick, someone!!! Where did I bring TDS into this thread? I apparently typed something visible only to ExDS Vet... This has zero to do with TDS.


I'm going to speak my mind right now. Take it or leave it.
For someone who claims to love Disney, pre-Eisner that is, you are about the most un-Disneylike individual I have ever run across. You have nothing good or polite to say to anyone who has a varying opinion of yours and you seem to spend all of your time on this board doing whatever you can to insult other people. If you are truly as unhappy in life as you sound then I feel very bad for anyone that actually has to deal with you in day to day life. Even when someone (not just myself) makes a comment about something positive you have to throw a bunch of mud on what they have to say. Give it a rest!

 

[exDS vet]

Well, since Pirates, Haunted, Mr. Toad and Jungle cruis still pack them in like crazy, it's a moot question.

I guess they just don't understand ride capacity. Do they?

If Pirates can accomodate over 3,000 guests per hour when all of the boats are being used, and that makes it appear to be less than crowded, maybe Disney should cut the amount of boats in half and make people wait in line for hours. Then we can hear everyone at WDW scream for Fastpass, or complain on these boards that Disney doesn't care that they have to wait in line all the time.

Perhaps less boats on Jungle Cruise too. Less "Doom Buggies" on HM. And, well, I always see a pretty good line at Mr. Toads. But then, the lines are longer for all of these rides at DL.

Moot question, exactly.

 

[Linzybrooke]

Well, since Pirates, Haunted, Mr. Toad and Jungle cruis still pack them in like crazy, it's a moot question.

This comes up every so often, but while you may not like it, Disney doesn't have a problem those rides, it's the newer ones that are the trouble.

I'll agree with that, some of the new ones totally suck. But, some of the old ones are getting tired. Haunted Mansion is my favorite ride at MK and I enjoy Jungle Cruise (one would think my husband wrote the jokes...) but not all of them are doing as well. If they were this thread probably wouldn't even exist...

 

[exDS vet]

Quick, someone!!! Where did I bring TDS into this thread? I apparently typed something visible only to ExDS Vet... This has zero to do with TDS.

Apparently you have a problem with sarcasm. Maybe you don't understand it.

You said;

So, what do we do then? Keep them operating under skeleton attendance? Make them "seasonal"? Pretend they are still popular and go on as if nothing is wrong? Update or replace them? I mean, what is the best option...

To that I sarcastically replied;

I had a feeling that you would bring The Disney Store into this thread too.

With my wit and humor, I was referring to TDS as an example of pretending that something was still popular and going on as if nothing was wrong. Maybe I should have continued to stay off-topic by saying that TDS should have been put out of it's misery years ago. It was supposed to be a sarcastic, but serious joke and you didn't get it.

If you are truly as unhappy in life as you sound then I feel very bad for anyone that actually has to deal with you in day to day life.

I'm sorry that you feel the need to read so much into every post that I write, or that you feel that you have to judge me. If this is your way of talking to people, you must be pretty unhappy. Oh wait, that's supposed to be me. My life is very positive and VERY happy. Thanks for asking.

Even when someone (not just myself) makes a comment about something positive you have to throw a bunch of mud on what they have to say. Give it a rest!

Maybe I throw a little bit of mud now and then, but look at your reflection, Mulan, and see who's slinging it.
I'm sorry if I have offended you.
(oops, there goes that sarcasm again)

 

[DancingBear]

IWhen the Classics like POTC, Mr. Toad, 20,000, Jungle Cruise, etc stop attracting the younger kids what do you propose that they do?

Once AGAIN, neither YoHo nor I are saying that there should never be updates or replacements.

 

[castleri]

Not as bad as some want you to think. After nearly 30 rides on the attraction I have yet to see a single person puke or even look sick after the ride. I am sure it happens, but I really don't think it is nearly as bad as reported.

While no one in our family actually puked - there is no one who cares to ride it again. Some of us had no adverse reactions, some felt queasy while on the ride and a few felt queasy for some time after getting off. I for one found it an interesting and unique experience the first time and extrememly boring the second and third times and don't get the idea that it is a thrill ride. Have no desire to ride it again. I was not one who felt at all sick.

 

[dbm20th]

You are honestly starting to make me angry. You are ignoring what I am saying. You are ignoring what others are saying about me. If you can't be bothered to read what I'm saying then all you're doing is trying to provoke a flame war and I have no time for that and I'm sure Sara will have a few things to say about it..[/QUOTE}

Well that is certainly not my intention, and if you look back you were the one to begin with cute lines like "stick that in your snowglobe and shake it." I just assumed a little friendly needling was what this was about. I apologize if I angered you. I certainly have no intention to get angry about Disney, especially not with a fellow junkie, even if our views on this subject are different.

In this thread, and in others too, you have made it clear that you are generally unhappy with the recent work by WDI. Did I misinterpret that? I am not unhappy. We disagree.

Marty Sklar became a company shil. He certainly wasn't the worst guy, but he's no saint either.

I HOPE Lasseter will make a difference, but realistically, there are a few more people back in burbank that need to clean out their offices before I expect any real change. I will say that I think we're better off with Lasseter then without.


Also, you didn't ask, but I think Joe Rhode is a twit.

It would seem that Lasseter has the right makeup, but only time will tell. When you say Sklar is no saint, what do you mean by that?

 

[YoHo]

Making a humorous snide comment. A comment that in reality is meaningless is very different from continuing to misunderstand what I'm saying. You can needle all you want, but outright ignoring what I'm saying is a little different.

 

[peter11435]

Funny, after my first (and only) ride...I saw 2 people that were sick...they were using the big, strategically placed trash cans.

I guess you just have bad luck.

 

[Winnie LoPooh]

I heard the same rumor when I was at Disney, I was told this rumor by a cm who was at Ohana. He stated the change was in the works. I am against this idea and hate the fact they take away the classics.

 

[exDS vet]

I heard the same rumor when I was at Disney, I was told this rumor by a cm who was at Ohana. He stated the change was in the works. I am against this idea and hate the fact they take away the classics.

Welcome to the Dis;

You might want to rethink your position here. There are some on these boards who will lose their minds if you voice an opinion that is contrary to theirs. They are very good at name calling and making assumptions about people who they don't even know. I agree with you about the classics and there are many others who do as well. But a few people who perhaps think they are Disney's bread and butter might look down on you for being in what they percieve as the minority.

"Be brave little one" and have a thick skin. You are using these boards at your own risk. Considered yourself warned. And have fun!

 

[SnackyStacky]

Obviously the theme of looking into the future has been lost on FW for a while now. Test Track is a futuristic as now outdated ending to SE itself. Test Track is about development, and it is darn fun too!

But as you yourself say, FW is suppose to be updated regularly. But, of course, you are happy with how long they waited to update it, and then unhappy with the updates, and now unhappy with the idea updating Spaceship Earth. It seems to me that leaving it alone is the only choice.

I think we can assume that a "classic" ride is one that is not updated too much. My concern is not about content. When I say that it seems weird to have a "classic" ride in Future World in EPCOT, I say that it is not what they planned. The plan was, as you stated, to move forward and update. That is exactly what I am in support of. But of course, you are convinced any update would be bad. There is nothing I can do about that.

Now instead of going back and forth about this, I would like to ask you a serious question. Are you happy with the departure of Marty Sklar? Do you think Lasseter will make a difference? Just curious what you would think about such a major shake-up in WDI

This is a question of degrees, and of generations.

Those who have been visiting Disney theme parks since their original openings will have an experience that is INCREDIBLY different from those who have begun visiting Disney parks within the past 10 or so years.

Imagineering has been, for the most part, completely outsourced. Whether or not we can agree on the quality of what has been produced by Imagineering as good or not - there's been a fundamental change in the way Imagineering operates.

YoHo's not saying that there's nothing that Imagineering will crank out that can possibly be good. What he's saying is that what used to come out of Imagineering was GREAT. Now - it NEVER hits that mark. It may be good - but rarely, if ever, is anything great.

And I'm not so sure the visitors who have recently begun to appreciate the parks will ever understand that because a good portion of what they know (a good deal of the Magic Kingdom, Epcot, as well as two ENTIRE theme parks at Walt Disney World) has been created under the Eisner regime. That' not to say there's ANYTHING wrong with that. It just that you're coming from two VERY different places.

 

[Planogirl]

Why is it so hard for some posters to believe that the Epcot of years past was in some ways better than the current incarnation? That once upon a time, everything was truly "shiny and new" (to quote the Horizons theme song) and that Epcot FW had a logical and cohesive theme?

I don't see anyone disputing the need for updates and modernization. I do see some posters unhappy that the theme, the very idea of Epcot was lost in the hope of luring the thrill ride lovers. If ride attendance at Horizons dropped, why was the ride allowed to deteriorate into a shell of its former self and why wasn't it updated? Does anyone remember how Jules Verne's face appeared to be melting? As far as I'm concerned, the neglect and then destruction of Horizons literally tore the heart out of FW and personally, I've had no success finding it back.

Sure, Epcot is nice and fun and "good". However, it's not excellent and it's not particularly unique, at least not to the degree it was. I was there when it was brand new and that was a unique experience. It wasn't unique and wonderful just because of the rides or shops or whatever but because of the theme. That theme that was gutted long before discussions of ruining Spaceship Earth ever came up.

 

[dbm20th]

This is a question of degrees, and of generations.

Those who have been visiting Disney theme parks since their original openings will have an experience that is INCREDIBLY different from those who have begun visiting Disney parks within the past 10 or so years.

Imagineering has been, for the most part, completely outsourced. Whether or not we can agree on the quality of what has been produced by Imagineering as good or not - there's been a fundamental change in the way Imagineering operates.

YoHo's not saying that there's nothing that Imagineering will crank out that can possibly be good. What he's saying is that what used to come out of Imagineering was GREAT. Now - it NEVER hits that mark. It may be good - but rarely, if ever, is anything great.

And I'm not so sure the visitors who have recently begun to appreciate the parks will ever understand that because a good portion of what they know (a good deal of the Magic Kingdom, Epcot, as well as two ENTIRE theme parks at Walt Disney World) has been created under the Eisner regime. That' not to say there's ANYTHING wrong with that. It just that you're coming from two VERY different places.

First of all, let me just say that I have been going to WDW for 30 years. I have never been to DL, and probably never will. I remember the Magic Kingdom as the only park, and I rememeber the first days at EPCOT. I also remember being young for those first years of EPCOT and wanting to hop the monorail to MK because I was getting really bored of being lectured to by rides. As I got older, I began to like EPCOT alot more, and now I literally love the place and go there more than any other park.

I understand the love for things that were so good. I understand the longing for the original Figment, Horizons, Mr. Toad and so on, but where we differ is that I don't except what has changed in those 30 years as bad, or at least not a good enough portion of it to be unhappy with WDI. On the contrary, I think the place is 100 times more fun and exciting now then it was in 1983 or whenever you want to frame this debate. In those years they have built some of the most amazing attractions. If you would like, I will name them all, but it would essentially list the majority of what you see in the guide books.

 

[DancingBear]

We don't need a list, but would be interested in what you have to say about the concepts raised. Do you disagree about the importance of cohesive theming, or attractions which families can enjoy together? Keeping things updated, interesting, fun and somewhat "educational" are not mutually exclusive.

Cranium Command was a perfect example of such an attraction (and also of an attraction which could have used some updating). Horizons had some dated (and poorly maintained) scenes, but what if those had been updated, if the films showing on the huge IMAX-type screens had been updated, and the closing "ride of your choice" feature was using state-of-the-art virtual reality technology (rather than having those vertical lines crossing the screen from time to time as you moved through the end of the ride)?

 

[SnackyStacky]

First of all, let me just say that I have been going to WDW for 30 years. I have never been to DL, and probably never will. I remember the Magic Kingdom as the only park, and I rememeber the first days at EPCOT. I also remember being young for those first years of EPCOT and wanting to hop the monorail to MK because I was getting really bored of being lectured to by rides. As I got older, I began to like EPCOT alot more, and now I literally love the place and go there more than any other park.

I understand the love for things that were so good. I understand the longing for the original Figment, Horizons, Mr. Toad and so on, but where we differ is that I don't except what has changed in those 30 years as bad, or at least not a good enough portion of it to be unhappy with WDI. On the contrary, I think the place is 100 times more fun and exciting now then it was in 1983 or whenever you want to frame this debate. In those years they have built some of the most amazing attractions. If you would like, I will name them all, but it would essentially list the majority of what you see in the guide books.

Since you're on the same page with your parks history, then there's a simple disagreement.

I have to side with YoHo. There's some wonderful things in the parks, and the parks themselves are cleaner, friendly, and just generally "better" than any other theme park. However, I think that there's a HUGE problem within Imagineering itself.

Rock 'n Roller Coaster is one of my favorite coasters. Ever. But I don't think it's Disney's best work. They looked at their competition, "demographics" and decided to build a story around a roller coaster.

Think back to pirates though. The ride system was developed around the story. They INVENTED a ride system to help them tell their story.

That's the difference I find between Imagineering of the pre-Eisner era, and the Imagineering of today. (At least before Lasseter came on board)

(I could get into this further - but I'm not writing a research essay! )

 

[MJMcBride]

This is a question of degrees, and of generations.

Those who have been visiting Disney theme parks since their original openings will have an experience that is INCREDIBLY different from those who have begun visiting Disney parks within the past 10 or so years.

Imagineering has been, for the most part, completely outsourced. Whether or not we can agree on the quality of what has been produced by Imagineering as good or not - there's been a fundamental change in the way Imagineering operates.

YoHo's not saying that there's nothing that Imagineering will crank out that can possibly be good. What he's saying is that what used to come out of Imagineering was GREAT. Now - it NEVER hits that mark. It may be good - but rarely, if ever, is anything great.

And I'm not so sure the visitors who have recently begun to appreciate the parks will ever understand that because a good portion of what they know (a good deal of the Magic Kingdom, Epcot, as well as two ENTIRE theme parks at Walt Disney World) has been created under the Eisner regime. That' not to say there's ANYTHING wrong with that. It just that you're coming from two VERY different places.

If Yoho and you are saying that Imagineering NEVER hits the mark anymore, well then I have to disagree. I love DAK. Kilimanajaroo Safari is a fantastic ride/zoological exhibit. Its tough to be a Bug is great. Soarin' is new and everyone loves it. (I have yet to go on), the Buzz ride is cool. These are all relatively new.

Sure some of it stinks. Stitch, etc. But I really don't think they have removed anything thas was all that great. I liked Horizons and am not a thrill ride kind of guy. Still, I don't think its all bad that Mr Toad's, Dreamflight, etc. are gone.

I still think the "World" is better than it was as the additions have far outpaced the losses/changes.

Having said all that- they better not put a coaster in SE.

 

[Another Voice]

They looked at their competition, "demographics" and decided to build a story around a roller coaster.

And this is where Branded Disney is a failure compared to Real Disney. Today the business is statisfied with just "being good enough". From the theme parks to films to merchandise - everything is done just enough for to fork over your cash. This is typical Hollywood thinking.

Real Disney would be a bunch of people sitting around in a room thinking "what's the coolest thing you've ever wanted to do - and how do we make that happen?" There were no focus groups for 'Pirates', no test screenings for 'Cinderella', to attempting to catch the competition for 'Haunted Mansion'.

At Disneyland, Real Disney did the absolute best they could, and the public rewarded them beyond anyone's imagine. Fifty years Branded Disney built a PowerPoint presentation that promised to maximize profits, and then wondered why no one pays for California Advneture.

 

[DisneyBaby!]

I too hate having focus groups for everything, and it would be great to have only the coolest stuff at Disney, but there is a point that you reach where you need to think about profit. Last time I checked, Disney was a publicly traded company whose purpose was to MAKE MONEY. Gripe all you want, but this is capitalism we are talking about and sometimes just good enough makes the most money. It is their company and their money.

I think the coolest thing would to build a runway and fly the vomit comit over the gulf or take the restrictor plates off the cars at the speedway and let me run flat-out, but 1, the insurance will kill you and 2, what market will that serve? Who will pay for that? Is it worth the investment?

The "If you build it they will come." idea is from a MOVIE, it is FICTION. Sometimes you get a car only Homer Simpson would love, but generally this is the most cost effective way to see if ideas have any merit, any mass appeal because, again, they are doing this to make money. I gladly pay every year.