* * *Major News* * * about Epcot's Spaceship Earth

[YoHo]

There is something here that I don't get, and maybe you guys can explain it to me. I have been on these rides a million times, and I am sure most posters on this board have as well. Why do we not get excited about the possibility of incredible, new things, but instead whine that they are taking away "classics"?

I love SE, just like everyone else, but to me Imagineering is what makes this place amazing and stand out from the crowd. They want to put a roller coaster in that thing! How cool would that be? Why am I the only one that thinks that? I don't care if it is a roller coaster or an AA ride. It's new and that is exciting.

I'm worried, because imagineering has been all but laid off and they aren't exactly batting a thousand lately (E:E not withstanding)

Why should I be excited about the potential attractions from the people that brought you dinorama?

 

[dbm20th]

I'm worried, because imagineering has been all but laid off and they aren't exactly batting a thousand lately (E:E not withstanding)

Why should I be excited about the potential attractions from the people that brought you dinorama?

The parks are filled with things Imagineered in last 10 or so years. You mention EE, what about...

Mission Space
Soarin
Kilimanjaro
Tough to be a Bug
Dinosaur
Rock'n Roller Coaster
Test Track
Tower of Terror
etc, etc

Imagineering has revolutionized the parks in recent years.

In fact, there are few E-ticket attraction I can thin of in the last 20 years that I don't like. They are all great, which is why I go. The good FAR outweighs the bad. That's why I am on this board, and I would imagine the same goes for you.

 

[DisneyFanatic4Life]

blah blah blah blah

 

[Another Voice]

The good FAR outweighs the bad.

I'll bet you haven't seen California Adventure yet.

Mr. YoHo's point is very true - the people responsible for most of your list are no longer with Disney. 'Expedition: Everest' is far from a full sized "E" attraction along the lines of 'Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom', 'Journey to the Center of the Earth' or even technical magic of Tokyo's 'Winnie the Pooh'.

 

[YoHo]

Thanks AV.

All of the AK stuff you listed is literally 10 years old, right at your arbitrary cut off. So, one year from now, if you ask the same question you've got nothing.

Rock N' Rollercoaster is nice, but it's a sham of an E-Ticket.

Test track is hit or miss,
Soarin is a D-ticket with no story at all.
Mission space is a pathetic version of what was planned
and Tower of Terror is way more then 10 years old.


In fact, the only ride in the past 10 years that qualifies as Disney E-ticket is not even on your list and that's Indiana Jones and the Temple of the Forbidden eye. Which is 10 years old and is the last true E-ticket Disney built.


AV is also right, If you've been to DCA, you'd know why I feel like punching a cat right now.

 

[YoHo]

In fact, there are few E-ticket attraction I can thin of in the last 20 years that I don't like. They are all great, which is why I go. The good FAR outweighs the bad. That's why I am on this board, and I would imagine the same goes for you.

Actually, I'm here because I fell in love with WDW and DL in the 70s. I like some of the stuff from the past twenty years, but I'm here because fo the stuff Walt and His brother and his son in law did.

So put that in your snowglobe and shake it.

 

[rogerram]

Actually, I'm here because I fell in love with WDW and DL in the 70s. I like some of the stuff from the past twenty years, but I'm here because fo the stuff Walt and His brother and his son in law did.

So put that in your snowglobe and shake it.

If Walt had still been around, he would never keep things the same. He would always try to improve or add to what is there already.He was innovative and had great vision that would have only tried to make things better. if he felt he had to change something to make it better, he would have. He was a great risk taker which he proved by making full length animated features when no one ever did and made them great. He was taking a chance with DL and he made it great and WDW would have been his next vision to develop( he had the plans ,but never saw it done) if he did not pass away before it could be opened. He would never say what is there is unchangeable and there is nothing else that he could do to improve it. The latest thing people are upset about is potc being remodeled. how could anyone say it might not be better. I love the originals, but I also embrace change for the better. Walt might have felt it needed this. You never know. Time will tell.

 

[mitros]

In the hope of not being *flamed like some folks have been on this thread, the original story {rumor, news,CM bold faced lies} that I had heard and posted last year was that the Time racer ride would have also required an addition to one side of the structure which would house the "launch" area for the ride. It had been stated that this addition to the building would have blocked off one of the entrance paths into the rest of the park. As to wether that had anything to do with their anything, ......who knows?

* not that I care.

 

[YoHo]

If Walt had still been around, he would never keep things the same. He would always try to improve or add to what is there already.He was innovative and had great vision that would have only tried to make things better. if he felt he had to change something to make it better, he would have. He was a great risk taker which he proved by making full length animated features when no one ever did and made them great. He was taking a chance with DL and he made it great and WDW would have been his next vision to develop( he had the plans ,but never saw it done) if he did not pass away before it could be opened. He would never say what is there is unchangeable and there is nothing else that he could do to improve it. The latest thing people are upset about is potc being remodeled. how could anyone say it might not be better. I love the originals, but I also embrace change for the better. Walt might have felt it needed this. You never know. Time will tell.

sigh, You've entirely missed my point. I never said I don't want change. I said that the stuff Eisner put in isn't what drew me to Disney.

Sure Walt would change stuff, maybe he would even put in stuff I didn't like, but that's not the point at all and has nothing to do with the point.

The point is that Disney had me prior to Eisner. And that the stuff that has happened during Eisner's tenure is not what made me care.

Walt created things that made me care, Roy O. created things that made me care, Ron Miller created things that made me care.

Eisner created tings that I like, things that I don't like and so forth, but I was already a junkie.

I realize this website is populated with people who didn't start going until a year ago, or started having families and therefore started caring recently, but there was a WDW and DL before then and almost everything that makes those parks truely spectacular was there back then.
ugh.

 

[exDS vet]

I can't say that there are many on these boards that I really like, but YoHo, you are the real deal. The things you have said about the Walt/Roy/Ron days are right on track and I agree with you 1000% about Eisner.

I also agree about the setbacks in imagineering (and animation) thanks to the cutbacks, lay-offs and overall stripping of everything Walt created. This has totally cheapened the brand.

I know that DCA is a sore spot with many people. I'm not a big fan of the place either. For me, the worst thing to happen at DCA was nothing new. I was furious when they brought back the Electrical Parade after that one year sham of a "Farewell Season". Make that a scam instead. I was on hand at Disneyland on October 15, 1996 for the so-called final parade. That was then followed by the "encore" performances. I bought two of the "original" lights from the parade which were sold for charity. Then the parade moved over to France or Tokyo, I believe. And then back to WDW, before being renamed "Disney's Electrical Parade" and being brought to DCA to lure the crowds. Another failure.

And what did we get at Disneyland in it's place? "Light Tragic!" And for only a couple of months until they pulled the plugs for it's lackluster popularity? Or was it because Disney abused child labor laws with the performers?

Speaking of failures. Can anyone say "Rocket Rods"? The new Tomorrowland at Disneyland is/was a joke. It didn't come close to the MK's updated version. "Cosmic Waves"? That was comic. Even the new Autopia sucks. And after experiencing the Pooh ride at WDW, and the long line for it, I was shocked to see no line at DL's ride. The shameful replacement for Country Bear Playhouse.

Ok, I gotta stop before I turn this reply into a novel. Those are just some of my thoughts. I'm glad to see that I am in good company.

 

[dbm20th]

So put that in your snowglobe and shake it.

Well, I think we have hit a wall, especially considering the tone you choose, but that's okay with me. I like WDW, and you apparently don't, perhaps with the exception of Jungle Cruise, Spaceship Earth, and the Carousel of Progress. No sense in wasting our time debating that point. Clearly we will get nowhere.

Your interpretation of what makes a great attraction is obviously very, very different from mine. I guess you can't make everyone happy all the time. I think the RnR is absolutely terrific , as is everything else I've named and a few more. They don't appeal to you for whatever reason.

My point is that all things they have added to WDW in the Eisner era, and that includes hotels as well as theme parks and attractions, have mostly met wuth my approval. You want something else, that is fine. Pleasure debating you, but this one has no end. It is about what appeals to each of us, and that is very different.

And just for reference, ToT was opened in 1994, which doesn't qualify to me as "way more than 10 years old."

And also, I was referring strictly to WDW as I have not been to California, and can't imagine that I ever will.

 

[DisneyBaby!]

Oh Boy, here we go again!

What Would Walt Do?!

I will probably bet flamed for this but here goes. I am new to these boards and already am growing tired of the above response to anything that the company does. It is amazing that the parks and resorts have transformed into the destination that they are without ol' Walts imput. Does it really matter why or who brought the parks to the state they are in? According to some people, the parks are just a wateland of bad ideas, the good new ones are re-treads of things that have worked in the past or appeal to the lowest common denominator and not to the true Disneyphiles that are the only ones that truly deserve to be there or appreciate the parks.

Some people hate change, want things to stay the same and I don't want change just for the sake of change but you can not get better without trying things and seeing how people react or find out what works and what doesnt. Don't some of the posters realize how much like Grandpa Simpson they all sound "When I was a kid....."

There was onle 1 time my kids fell asleap in Disney last year, that was on Spaceship Earth. We have enough Museums here in Chicago, I go to Disney for fun and action. Brings on the Racers!!!

 

[dbm20th]

There was onle 1 time my kids fell asleap in Disney last year, that was on Spaceship Earth. We have enough Museums here in Chicago, I go to Disney for fun and action. Brings on the Racers!!!

Oh boy have you asked for it!

 

[DancingBear]

At the risk of evoking the ghost of LandBaron, it's about more than what each of us prefers. It's a question of just what is WDW about.

I haven't cried any tears over the demise of Mr. Toad in MK; I'm not against changes per se. I'm also not against thrill rides per se, but I do believe that Walt's core concept of having attractions which the entire family can experience together should be kept in mind when determining the mix of attractions.

Future World has lost several of such attractions--Horizons, Cranium Command, World of Motion. The east side of Future World seems out of whack with the thrill rides M:S and TT side-by-side, and WoL closed. (I feel the same way about Tower of Terror/RnR and Splash/Big Thunder, although Splash is perhaps my favorite attraction in all of WDW). If your kids are too young for M:S and TT, are you going to walk all the way over to Universe of Energy?

Also, management has somewhat created a self-fulfilling prophecy by not updating or making feeble attempts to update the Future World attractions. Horizons was never updated. Universe of Energy just received a new gloss (they didn't, for example, replace any dinosaurs with new-generation audioanimatronics). On Spaceship Earth, changes were minimal, and the end of the ride was made worse. I know of nobody who prefers either the second or third generation of the Imagination ride to the original. Food Rocks was a cheaped-out update of Kitchen Kabaret.

[I've never understood why the "Tomorrow's Child" song was removed from Spaceship Earth, or "Listen to the Land" was removed from the Land boat ride. A lot of original songs have been lost and not replaced.]

There has also been a loss of the cohesive themes of Future World, about the vision of the remarkable world we live in and the more remarkable future that our children have the opportunity to create. I enjoy Soarin' as a ride, but what's it about, exactly?

For me, I wouldn't invoke Walt to say I know exactly what he would do on a particular decision, but as a shorthand reference to the Philosophy (there, Baron, I said it) behind the parks that made them great, and which could continue to keep them great (and something different and better than Universal, Busch Gardens, etc.).

Disney loves to trade on the "magic" and the nostalgia that we have for the Company, but they have somewhat lost track of what created those magic memories and planted that affection in our hearts.

 

[Another Voice]

We have enough Museums here in Chicago, I go to Disney for fun and action. Brings on the Racers!!!

But now aren't you just as closed-minded as all the people you just blasted? Not everyone goes to Disney, or even enjoys, motion-induced nasuesa. Maybe some posters don't understand how much they sound like Beavis...

There is nothing wrong with change. The Disney parks are all about change. The problem is that in recent years there's been a lot of change but no improvement. At every opportunity the company has choosen the quick and easy way - Dino-Rama, closing pavilions, reduced shows, etc.

No one became excited about Disney because "it's acceptable", "it's better than a parking lot" or "at least it's new". People drop the big bucks to visit because the place is unique. The more Disneyland/WDW resembles a standard amusement park, the fewer people will go.

Wander around California Adventure and see that in action.

 

[manning]

Imagination was changed. Boy was it changed....yawn!!!!!

 

[YoHo]

dbm20th, we can't have a debate, because you clearly did not understand word one of what I said. I love the Magic Kingdom (It's no Disneyland, but so what).


I'm Chicago born and bred and a Die hard Bears fan. Doesn't mean I don't think Mike McCaskey was a twit who tried to ruin the team. I can love something and still point out it's flaws.

I'm fed up with this "You have to love it all, or you don't love Disney at all" attitude that so many people on this board have.


As for Chicago having plenty of museums. Again, Chicago born and bred. Lived there for 25 years. Been all over the museums, the zoos, the Aquarium. And yet for some reason, I still love Epcot, I loved the Living Seas, I still think the San Diego Zoo is awesome.

So clearly, that's just your opinion. And of course, Chicago isn't exactly typical America. It's the 3rd largest City (Well 2nd, L.A. is more of a tumor) in America. You're expereinces can hardly be said to be relevent for the vast majority of the country.

 

[dbm20th]

dbm20th, we can't have a debate, because you clearly did not understand word one of what I said. I love the Magic Kingdom (It's no Disneyland, but so what).


I'm Chicago born and bred and a Die hard Bears fan. Doesn't mean I don't think Mike McCaskey was a twit who tried to ruin the team. I can love something and still point out it's flaws.

I'm fed up with this "You have to love it all, or you don't love Disney at all" attitude that so many people on this board have.


As for Chicago having plenty of museums. Again, Chicago born and bred. Lived there for 25 years. Been all over the museums, the zoos, the Aquarium. And yet for some reason, I still love Epcot, I loved the Living Seas, I still think the San Diego Zoo is awesome.

So clearly, that's just your opinion. And of course, Chicago isn't exactly typical America. It's the 3rd largest City (Well 2nd, L.A. is more of a tumor) in America. You're expereinces can hardly be said to be relevent for the vast majority of the country.

Don't have a clue what you're talking about with Chicago, but I suppose if I look back I will find what you're talking about. Must've been someone else, no big deal.

And I am very sorry that I was not detailed enough in spelling out all the things you don't like, but listing everything "Eisner put in" seemed like it would take way too long. Just wanted to keep the post short. My bad.
I was using something called hyperbole. What was your line? "Stick that in your snowglobe and shake it?"

You do make a good point about being able to criticize that which you love. Seems that is exactly how I got into this debate, by wanting changes to something I love.

 

[DancingBear]

Your interpretation of what makes a great attraction is obviously very, very different from mine.

Okay, give us yours then.

 

[Jonas Grumby]

I haven't cried any tears over the demise of Mr. Toad in MK

I'm not ashamed to admit that I did, but riding Mr. Toad is one of my fondest memories of WDW when I was little.