Magical Express to end in 2022

mmackeymouse

DIS Veteran
Joined
Jul 15, 2008
Secondly.

I have seen the following said:

Bob Chapek is cheap and/or doesn't understand or respect the Disney legacy or the lifers who make the brand what it is. Both of these are very likely true.

Disney has to do whatever it takes to re-coup the money lost due to the Covid situation. This is also likely true.

I don't think either of these are the reason for this decision.

I may be completely off base here, but I genuinely think the reason for all of this is Chapek and company want to turn Disney World into Disneyland. Look at the park prices Disneyland commands. I think they want WDW to be a locals park complex. For years, DL was for locals, WDW was for travelers. I think they want to change that narrative.

I think a couple of things happened: the influx of people moving to the Orlando area, especially those moving specifically to be near Disney World, has boomed over the last decade. And, I think they realize the local presence is much stronger than ever before. It's not just people who *happen* to live in Orlando who are wanting to go somewhere fun for the day or weekend or whatever. It's people who live in Orlando specifically because they will be going to the parks. And, I think Disney sees this.

I think they saw the demand when they re-opened the parks, which was carried primarily by local or in-state travelers. I think attendance, eventually, exceeded what they expected to come from a largely majority local audience. Park passes were consistently taken from the resort pot and distributed to the AP and day-of pot. Now...this was to be expected of course, that resorts would suffer because of people not traveling. But the fact that local traffic picked up so much of that slack...I think whatever hope there was for DME to continue probably died at that point.

I might be completely off. It's just a gut feeling that the powers that be are wanting to transition WDW into a more local destination, ala Disneyland.
 

Farro

Becoming a Heffalump...October 2021
Joined
Jun 19, 2016
Secondly.

I have seen the following said:

Bob Chapek is cheap and/or doesn't understand or respect the Disney legacy or the lifers who make the brand what it is. Both of these are very likely true.

Disney has to do whatever it takes to re-coup the money lost due to the Covid situation. This is also likely true.

I don't think either of these are the reason for this decision.

I may be completely off base here, but I genuinely think the reason for all of this is Chapek and company want to turn Disney World into Disneyland. Look at the park prices Disneyland commands. I think they want WDW to be a locals park complex. For years, DL was for locals, WDW was for travelers. I think they want to change that narrative.

I think a couple of things happened: the influx of people moving to the Orlando area, especially those moving specifically to be near Disney World, has boomed over the last decade. And, I think they realize the local presence is much stronger than ever before. It's not just people who *happen* to live in Orlando who are wanting to go somewhere fun for the day or weekend or whatever. It's people who live in Orlando specifically because they will be going to the parks. And, I think Disney sees this.

I think they saw the demand when they re-opened the parks, which was carried primarily by local or in-state travelers. I think attendance, eventually, exceeded what they expected to come from a largely majority local audience. Park passes were consistently taken from the resort pot and distributed to the AP and day-of pot. Now...this was to be expected of course, that resorts would suffer because of people not traveling. But the fact that local traffic picked up so much of that slack...I think whatever hope there was for DME to continue probably died at that point.

I might be completely off. It's just a gut feeling that the powers that be are wanting to transition WDW into a more local destination, ala Disneyland.
I don't think they want to turn Walt Disney World into a locals destination.

They want the out-of-towners.
 

DGsAtBLT

DIS Veteran
Joined
Jan 10, 2017
Secondly.

I have seen the following said:

Bob Chapek is cheap and/or doesn't understand or respect the Disney legacy or the lifers who make the brand what it is. Both of these are very likely true.

Disney has to do whatever it takes to re-coup the money lost due to the Covid situation. This is also likely true.

I don't think either of these are the reason for this decision.

I may be completely off base here, but I genuinely think the reason for all of this is Chapek and company want to turn Disney World into Disneyland. Look at the park prices Disneyland commands. I think they want WDW to be a locals park complex. For years, DL was for locals, WDW was for travelers. I think they want to change that narrative.

I think a couple of things happened: the influx of people moving to the Orlando area, especially those moving specifically to be near Disney World, has boomed over the last decade. And, I think they realize the local presence is much stronger than ever before. It's not just people who *happen* to live in Orlando who are wanting to go somewhere fun for the day or weekend or whatever. It's people who live in Orlando specifically because they will be going to the parks. And, I think Disney sees this.

I think they saw the demand when they re-opened the parks, which was carried primarily by local or in-state travelers. I think attendance, eventually, exceeded what they expected to come from a largely majority local audience. Park passes were consistently taken from the resort pot and distributed to the AP and day-of pot. Now...this was to be expected of course, that resorts would suffer because of people not traveling. But the fact that local traffic picked up so much of that slack...I think whatever hope there was for DME to continue probably died at that point.

I might be completely off. It's just a gut feeling that the powers that be are wanting to transition WDW into a more local destination, ala Disneyland.
Never say never and all, but...

Never, lol. WDW is not nearly as profitable as a primarily locals park. They need the full blown Disney vacation, week+ onsite spending money on souvenirs they don’t need and expensive Disney food kinda guests. Per guest spend is way higher for these types of guests than your typical local AP. The value of vacationers was recently stated by Chapek (I think it was him) as well.

DME could arguably be gone because they know there’s still a good amount of time before out of state and international travel returns to the level they want it to be at, that would make sense if it eventually comes out as the driver IMO, but it’s not a goal to make the crowd breakdown like DLR IMO. It doesn’t make sense for WDW and how it’s been designed as an entire vacation destination much more than DLR has.
 

bookwormde

<font color=darkorchid>Heading out now, another ad
Joined
Mar 16, 2008
Secondly.

I have seen the following said:

Bob Chapek is cheap and/or doesn't understand or respect the Disney legacy or the lifers who make the brand what it is. Both of these are very likely true.

Disney has to do whatever it takes to re-coup the money lost due to the Covid situation. This is also likely true.

I don't think either of these are the reason for this decision.

I may be completely off base here, but I genuinely think the reason for all of this is Chapek and company want to turn Disney World into Disneyland. Look at the park prices Disneyland commands. I think they want WDW to be a locals park complex. For years, DL was for locals, WDW was for travelers. I think they want to change that narrative.

I think a couple of things happened: the influx of people moving to the Orlando area, especially those moving specifically to be near Disney World, has boomed over the last decade. And, I think they realize the local presence is much stronger than ever before. It's not just people who *happen* to live in Orlando who are wanting to go somewhere fun for the day or weekend or whatever. It's people who live in Orlando specifically because they will be going to the parks. And, I think Disney sees this.

I think they saw the demand when they re-opened the parks, which was carried primarily by local or in-state travelers. I think attendance, eventually, exceeded what they expected to come from a largely majority local audience. Park passes were consistently taken from the resort pot and distributed to the AP and day-of pot. Now...this was to be expected of course, that resorts would suffer because of people not traveling. But the fact that local traffic picked up so much of that slack...I think whatever hope there was for DME to continue probably died at that point.

I might be completely off. It's just a gut feeling that the powers that be are wanting to transition WDW into a more local destination, ala Disneyland.
If they are going to try to rely on locals like DL they are going to need to change their ticket pricing structure since they receive much lover average daily visit revenue from Florida guest than then do from non residents
 

Eric Smith

DIS Veteran
Joined
Jun 1, 2017
Secondly.

I have seen the following said:

Bob Chapek is cheap and/or doesn't understand or respect the Disney legacy or the lifers who make the brand what it is. Both of these are very likely true.

Disney has to do whatever it takes to re-coup the money lost due to the Covid situation. This is also likely true.

I don't think either of these are the reason for this decision.

I may be completely off base here, but I genuinely think the reason for all of this is Chapek and company want to turn Disney World into Disneyland. Look at the park prices Disneyland commands. I think they want WDW to be a locals park complex. For years, DL was for locals, WDW was for travelers. I think they want to change that narrative.

I think a couple of things happened: the influx of people moving to the Orlando area, especially those moving specifically to be near Disney World, has boomed over the last decade. And, I think they realize the local presence is much stronger than ever before. It's not just people who *happen* to live in Orlando who are wanting to go somewhere fun for the day or weekend or whatever. It's people who live in Orlando specifically because they will be going to the parks. And, I think Disney sees this.

I think they saw the demand when they re-opened the parks, which was carried primarily by local or in-state travelers. I think attendance, eventually, exceeded what they expected to come from a largely majority local audience. Park passes were consistently taken from the resort pot and distributed to the AP and day-of pot. Now...this was to be expected of course, that resorts would suffer because of people not traveling. But the fact that local traffic picked up so much of that slack...I think whatever hope there was for DME to continue probably died at that point.

I might be completely off. It's just a gut feeling that the powers that be are wanting to transition WDW into a more local destination, ala Disneyland.
That's an interesting observation and I think you're partially right. I think Disney is operating under the assumption that their out of area visitors and especially international visitors won't be returning in significant numbers for quite a while. I think the MDE change was made because it had already seen a decline in usage and the cost was no longer justified if that usage was going to stay low. I think you may see Disney do things to try to appeal to Florida residents as well as people from neighboring states even more than they already are. I think they're going to be more reliant on regional guests than they have been in the past for quite a while.
 
  • Eric Smith

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Jun 1, 2017
    Well, have they started AP sales again yet?
    I don't think they'll do that until capacity at the parks isn't an issue. The last thing they want to do is sell APs again and then have people start complaining that they can't get park reservations.
     
  • MrsBooch

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Mar 13, 2019
    Mrs. Brooch,
    Maybe not. The area is going to be so saturated by drivers, they may undercut each other, especially if the uber app is used. We can pick from whom we want.
    I was talking more in the way of car service not ride share - time will tell.
    I think the basic economic principle is that when demand goes up for a product & the quantity of that product is reduced, the price goes up.
    so unless more rideshare drivers consistently appear, and more car service options open, or more vehicles are added to the fleets, we will be in a situation with more people trying to use a finite number of resources.
    Prices, in that scenario, will increase.
     

    dlavender

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    May 7, 2015
    I was talking more in the way of car service not ride share - time will tell.
    I think the basic economic principle is that when demand goes up for a product & the quantity of that product is reduced, the price goes up.
    so unless more rideshare drivers consistently appear, and more car service options open, or more vehicles are added to the fleets, we will be in a situation with more people trying to use a finite number of resources.
    Prices, in that scenario, will increase.
    That's a great point. How many people fly into MCO for WDW each day? They get 50 million travelers annually (Pre Covid). We think at least a million per year are going to WDW?

    That's about 2800 people per day going to WDW from MCO. Let's have them land between 9am and 5 pm just to add some realism. Let's pretend there's an even distribution per hour for those 8 hours. That's 350 travelers per hour. Let's divide that into groups of 4 and assign one car to that group. That's about 87 cars that are needed per hour. Also one has to think of the luggage component. Obviously will need a vehicle to accommodate that. That hurts the supply end, as smaller ubers or cars are a no go.

    With this rambling that has tons of holes in it.......I think we can say prices will go up. Demand will be up, I would say supply will remain at the same level.

    So when demand pricing can carry a $100 price tag each way, WDW swoops in as the hero and announces a paid version (with cupcakes of course) for $100 for round trip fare.

    Then let the savings begin!
     

    EveDallas

    Always keep fighting
    Joined
    Aug 21, 2008
    From a purely cost perspective and for those who are able to use Uber - this morning if you were to take Uber to Jambo House (first hotel that popped up!)

    regular that seats 3 people - about $32 one way
    One that seats 6 people - about $47 one way
    Comfort ? - about $38 one way

    $10 extra for requested car seat, which you do on app.

    I know it's not ideal for everyone, but thought seeing the prices may help. Of course they could go up by 2022, but they won't be at surge price all the time like everyone is guessing.

    Now renting a car service for drop off/pick up, that's pricey! :oops:
    Disagree about the car service. I use Tony Hinds for airport pick up/drop off. He drives a ten passenger van, so plenty of room, and only charges $100 round trip. He also includes a 30 minute grocery stop for no extra charge
     
    Last edited:

    TheMaxRebo

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Jan 12, 2008
    That's a great point. How many people fly into MCO for WDW each day? They get 50 million travelers annually (Pre Covid). We think at least a million per year are going to WDW?

    That's about 2800 people per day going to WDW from MCO. Let's have them land between 9am and 5 pm just to add some realism. Let's pretend there's an even distribution per hour for those 8 hours. That's 350 travelers per hour. Let's divide that into groups of 4 and assign one car to that group. That's about 87 cars that are needed per hour. Also one has to think of the luggage component. Obviously will need a vehicle to accommodate that. That hurts the supply end, as smaller ubers or cars are a no go.

    With this rambling that has tons of holes in it.......I think we can say prices will go up. Demand will be up, I would say supply will remain at the same level.

    So when demand pricing can carry a $100 price tag each way, WDW swoops in as the hero and announces a paid version (with cupcakes of course) for $100 for round trip fare.

    Then let the savings begin!
    549809
     

    Mit88

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    May 18, 2019
    0 chance they’re trying to turn WDW into a locals park. First of all, they’ve spat in the face of locals on numerous occasions just this year alone, a year in which the locals have been instrumental in the reopening of the parks. Second, focusing on that demographic would alienate the guests that spend the most money between resort rooms, DVC contracts, full priced day tickets or APs, food/beverage, merchandise. A big reason why we’ve seen massive layoffs and in park cuts like entertainment is partially because of the shutdown, but also because the resorts aren’t being booked from out of state guests. That’s a lot of money not coming in having these rooms empty every night
     

    Tiki Birdland

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Feb 11, 2017
    Truth.
    People seem to forget ME is fairly new, people going to wdw before that found a way. The real issue here is the loss of something that was built into the price of the room
    I believe it's been going on since at least 2005-6 (15 years?). I really appreciated ME and baggage check back then when my kids were babies. It was truly magic. Now that they're grown (well, almost), we rented a car the last time and didn't use ME or the baggage check. But, I know how valuable that is for others. I'm still upset about the loss of "free" magic bands and the luggage tags. The marginal cost there demonstrated to me that this wasn't about the pandemic; it was about increasing profit margins.
     

    Fanofthegame

    Registered
    Joined
    Jan 11, 2021
    I believe it's been going on since at least 2005-6 (15 years?). I really appreciated ME and baggage check back then when my kids were babies. It was truly magic. Now that they're grown (well, almost), we rented a car the last time and didn't use ME or the baggage check. But, I know how valuable that is for others. I'm still upset about the loss of "free" magic bands and the luggage tags. The marginal cost there demonstrated to me that this wasn't about the pandemic; it was about increasing profit margins.
    Someone that gets it. I agree money is always the motivation for everything.
     

    hertamaniac

    Dis Veteran
    Joined
    Feb 9, 2017
    Secondly.

    I have seen the following said:

    Bob Chapek is cheap and/or doesn't understand or respect the Disney legacy or the lifers who make the brand what it is. Both of these are very likely true.

    Disney has to do whatever it takes to re-coup the money lost due to the Covid situation. This is also likely true.

    I don't think either of these are the reason for this decision.

    I may be completely off base here, but I genuinely think the reason for all of this is Chapek and company want to turn Disney World into Disneyland. Look at the park prices Disneyland commands. I think they want WDW to be a locals park complex. For years, DL was for locals, WDW was for travelers. I think they want to change that narrative.

    I think a couple of things happened: the influx of people moving to the Orlando area, especially those moving specifically to be near Disney World, has boomed over the last decade. And, I think they realize the local presence is much stronger than ever before. It's not just people who *happen* to live in Orlando who are wanting to go somewhere fun for the day or weekend or whatever. It's people who live in Orlando specifically because they will be going to the parks. And, I think Disney sees this.

    I think they saw the demand when they re-opened the parks, which was carried primarily by local or in-state travelers. I think attendance, eventually, exceeded what they expected to come from a largely majority local audience. Park passes were consistently taken from the resort pot and distributed to the AP and day-of pot. Now...this was to be expected of course, that resorts would suffer because of people not traveling. But the fact that local traffic picked up so much of that slack...I think whatever hope there was for DME to continue probably died at that point.

    I might be completely off. It's just a gut feeling that the powers that be are wanting to transition WDW into a more local destination, ala Disneyland.
    You bring up valid points, and if my memory serves, I thought the % for AP increases at WDW was higher than most other categories. I could be wrong as I don't have that data.

    I can only share that over my almost twenty years of living near Orlando, the influx of transplants has increased substantially. The underlying reason for the majority of folks I speak with is proximity to the theme parks (not just WDW).
     



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