Magic Kingdom closed

[Gentry2004]

Well, playing devil's advocate, the customer knew when they made the reservation what the terms and conditions were (i.e., if you don't show for any reason you will be charged a no show fee) and the customer would have been able to enter the park without restriction if they arrived early enough (arrival time is under the control of the customer and their plans, not Disney), so if they arrived too late, and Disney could not admit any further guests due to capacity (set for safety) it would technically be the customer's fault not Disney's. If you make an ADR at a park on your arrival day during a time where capacity closures have historically occurred, you are the one taking the risk. I could see Disney winning a credit card dispute with this information (I used to work the credit card disputes for a company I worked for, that also charged guests no show fees and provided we could prove the customer knew at the time they booked that if they didn't show they would be charged the fee, we never lost a case).

Disney might practice going above and beyond to make a guest happy and avoid negative publicity, but they would have enough on their side to make it perfectly legal to post the no show charge and make it stick if they wanted to.

Meh. Disney waived our no show fee for Cali Grill 1 hour before our res because DH’s stomach was bothering him. Didn’t bat an eye. I don’t see Disney giving anyone a hard time over something like this.

 

[kandb]

Well, playing devil's advocate, the customer knew when they made the reservation what the terms and conditions were (i.e., if you don't show for any reason you will be charged a no show fee) and the customer would have been able to enter the park without restriction if they arrived early enough (arrival time is under the control of the customer and their plans, not Disney), so if they arrived too late, and Disney could not admit any further guests due to capacity (set for safety) it would technically be the customer's fault not Disney's. If you make an ADR at a park on your arrival day during a time where capacity closures have historically occurred, you are the one taking the risk. I could see Disney winning a credit card dispute with this information (I used to work the credit card disputes for a company I worked for, that also charged guests no show fees and provided we could prove the customer knew at the time they booked that if they didn't show they would be charged the fee, we never lost a case).

Disney might practice going above and beyond to make a guest happy and avoid negative publicity, but they would have enough on their side to make it perfectly legal to post the no show charge and make it stick if they wanted to.

How could you see Disney winning a credit card case in this circumstance? I am sure there are a lot of people out there that don't know that MK closes because it fills to capacity. Did Disney advise this customer they have to get to the parks when they open to avoid being shut out? Never heard them tell guests this before. It's like charging people for an adr no show that got stuck on the monorail for 2 hours and they could not get to their restaurant on time.

 

[randumb0]

Not sure why you would ever want to go to MK on Christmas day

 

[Disney_Princess83]

Meh. Disney waived our no show fee for Cali Grill 1 hour before our res because DH’s stomach was bothering him. Didn’t bat an eye. I don’t see Disney giving anyone a hard time over something like this.

We had Disney waive two no show fees for us on two separate occasions. I suffer from migraines and when I get them, I can barely eat. During two seperate trips, migraines hit and I had to return to the resort for a few hours. Both times, Disney waived our no show see when we explained to them the situation.

 

[fbarker]

Not sure why you would ever want to go to MK on Christmas day

to say you did. It would be a special memory even with the large crowds.

 

[theSurlyMermaid]

Meh. Disney waived our no show fee for Cali Grill 1 hour before our res because DH’s stomach was bothering him. Didn’t bat an eye. I don’t see Disney giving anyone a hard time over something like this.

Disney let us cancel about five reservations without a fee because of our illnesses as well. One was about five minutes before the start of the reservation, the others an hour or so. This just happened a week ago. They were very accommodating.

 

[Disneylover99]

Not sure why you would ever want to go to MK on Christmas day

Because it's magical. Seriously. It's the best Christmas Day I've ever had.
So much fun!

 

[DisneyFanThi]

How could you see Disney winning a credit card case in this circumstance? I am sure there are a lot of people out there that don't know that MK closes because it fills to capacity. Did Disney advise this customer they have to get to the parks when they open to avoid being shut out? Never heard them tell guests this before. It's like charging people for an adr no show that got stuck on the monorail for 2 hours and they could not get to their restaurant on time.

I agree that Disney would never let it get to that point, they would waive the fee before you dispute it. However, assuming that you call Disney and they were unwilling to resolve it, you would have a valid dispute case with the four major credit card networks for services not rendered. In this case Disney is unable to provide the service that you paid for, so you would have a valid credit card dispute...assuming that your bank doesn't just credit you outright. The expectation would be that you call Disney first in an attempt to resolve it first.

 

[AngiTN]

Disney let us cancel about five reservations without a fee because of our illnesses as well. One was about five minutes before the start of the reservation, the others an hour or so. This just happened a week ago. They were very accommodating.

You don't even have to ask them to cancel. You can just use the Change Reservation feature on MDE and move it yourself, to a date far out. Choose either a date you do want, if you want to try and eat there or any date and just go back and then cancel it.
They told me to do it that way when I called to cancel an ADR one time. Works like a champ. I've done it at about an hour out but not 5 min. 5 min may still take a phone call.

 

[KyleAfterAWhile]

I could not even imagine wanting to get into a park that is that crowded. No thank you.

 

[fla4fun]

How could you see Disney winning a credit card case in this circumstance? I am sure there are a lot of people out there that don't know that MK closes because it fills to capacity. Did Disney advise this customer they have to get to the parks when they open to avoid being shut out? Never heard them tell guests this before. It's like charging people for an adr no show that got stuck on the monorail for 2 hours and they could not get to their restaurant on time.

It says right on your ticket (just checked my AP to be sure) that parks can close due to capacity, without notice and without liability. That would be considered notification. I'm not saying that Disney WOULD do it, but someone said it wasn't legal to do it, and Disney has their ducks in a row legally. They just don't want the bad press, so they do what they can (within reason) to make the guests happy.

 

[kandb]

It says right on your ticket (just checked my AP to be sure) that parks can close due to capacity, without notice and without liability. That would be considered notification. I'm not saying that Disney WOULD do it, but someone said it wasn't legal to do it, and Disney has their ducks in a row legally. They just don't want the bad press, so they do what they can (within reason) to make the guests happy.

Even though it says it on the ticket that a park could close at anytime, does that mean that I MUST show up to every park opening to get into an adr I made for dinner? Sorry, I stand firm, that legally Disney could not charge a penalty to someone if THEY close one of their parks and do not give a person with an adr, access to the park they have an adr at. There is NO WAY IMO, they could legally charge someone.

 

[Allison]

Even though it says it on the ticket that a park could close at anytime, does that mean that I MUST show up to every park opening to get into an adr I made for dinner? Sorry, I stand firm, that legally Disney could not charge a penalty to someone if THEY close one of their parks and do not give a person with an adr, access to the park they have an adr at. There is NO WAY IMO, they could legally charge someone.

Curious if you have a legal background?

 

[Hopefully]

Even though it says it on the ticket that a park could close at anytime, does that mean that I MUST show up to every park opening to get into an adr I made for dinner? Sorry, I stand firm, that legally Disney could not charge a penalty to someone if THEY close one of their parks and do not give a person with an adr, access to the park they have an adr at. There is NO WAY IMO, they could legally charge someone.

I disagree. I agree with fla4fun.
Believe what you may .....

 

[kandb]

I disagree. I agree with fla4fun.
Believe what you may .....

It's common sense. You made an adr and were willing to go and use that adr but Disney did not allow you into the place where the adr was. How could Disney possibly hold you responsible?

 

[ShadeDK]

Is there any written policy/contract language out there about ADR no-show penalties? Couldn't find anything (other than the general language on Disney's website), but that's what would control. My understanding is that each restaurant operates under its own policy.

As a legal matter, I don't see how a restaurant in a park that's been closed could charge guests a no-show penalty if challenged. Under common law contract principles, the prevention doctrine says that a party can't cause failure of performance under a contract and then take advantage of it legally. It's part of the implied duty of good faith and fair dealing under every contract. If Disney shuts the park and prevents a guest from coming in to honor their reservation, Disney can't then penalize the guest for a no-show. (This assumes that Disney park and Disney restaurant are the same or in privity - and there's no contract language to the contrary).

As for the argument that guests should get in the parks earlier - the obligation under the reservation is to be there within 15 minutes after the reservation time. If a closure prevents a guest from reasonably performing (and I'd say arriving hours before a reservation isn't reasonable - considering most WDW restaurants will turn you away if you're more than 15 minutes early), I'd argue that the prevention doctrine applies.

As for the language on tickets/passes about closure and no liability for Disney, that doesn't concern ADRs. It's a shield to protect Disney from claims by guests who couldn't get in, not a sword to attack those same guests with no-show penalties.

All that said - I agree 100% that, as a practical matter, Disney takes care of its guests and bends over backwards to accommodate them in this situation. The penalty discussion is mostly academic.

 

[brockash]

I doubt very much Disney would charge a guest for a reservation when Disney would not allow them to enter the park. I don't think Disney handles business that way.

No kidding, there's no way in the world Disney would make someone pay or at the very least not reimburse guests in that situation. It drives me nuts when we mislead and scare others into thinking they'll b charged for this or that etc when it's completely illogical.

 

[supersnoop]

Even though it says it on the ticket that a park could close at anytime, does that mean that I MUST show up to every park opening to get into an adr I made for dinner? Sorry, I stand firm, that legally Disney could not charge a penalty to someone if THEY close one of their parks and do not give a person with an adr, access to the park they have an adr at. There is NO WAY IMO, they could legally charge someone.

A park closing would be outside of Disney’s control. It’s akin to an act of god. You can argue all you want, and it will likely be a theoretical exercise (because I doubt it will ever actually happen), but they have a firm legal basis. Of course, as my attorney is keen to advise me; anyone with $20 can file a lawsuit. I can’t imagine this issue, which would likely be about $60, would ever be settled in court.

 

[MermaidMommy]

Is there any written policy/contract language out there about ADR no-show penalties? Couldn't find anything (other than the general language on Disney's website), but that's what would control. My understanding is that each restaurant operates under its own policy.

As a legal matter, I don't see how a restaurant in a park that's been closed could charge guests a no-show penalty if challenged. Under common law contract principles, the prevention doctrine says that a party can't cause failure of performance under a contract and then take advantage of it legally. It's part of the implied duty of good faith and fair dealing under every contract. If Disney shuts the park and prevents a guest from coming in to honor their reservation, Disney can't then penalize the guest for a no-show. (This assumes that Disney park and Disney restaurant are the same or in privity - and there's no contract language to the contrary).

As for the argument that guests should get in the parks earlier - the obligation under the reservation is to be there within 15 minutes after the reservation time. If a closure prevents a guest from reasonably performing (and I'd say arriving hours before a reservation isn't reasonable - considering most WDW restaurants will turn you away if you're more than 15 minutes early), I'd argue that the prevention doctrine applies.

As for the language on tickets/passes about closure and no liability for Disney, that doesn't concern ADRs. It's a shield to protect Disney from claims by guests who couldn't get in, not a sword to attack those same guests with no-show penalties.

All that said - I agree 100% that, as a practical matter, Disney takes care of its guests and bends over backwards to accommodate them in this situation. The penalty discussion is mostly academic.

Thanks for this explanation. It makes a lot of sense.

 

[fbarker]

Instead of all this speculation why dont we all wait until someone who had and ADR and could not get into the park and see what their experience was.