Magic Key Program

[gelatoni fan]

Now I'm kind of debating even getting an AP at all... this might just accelerate our move to go once a year, twice, tops. I don't want to spend $1000 and worry about reservations.

I think cutting off AP1 sales will accelerate AP2-4 sales, worsening the availability problem in the near-term.

It really depends on the situation you are in. For most of my friends who used to have APs and went 10-20 days a year, it actually makes the most sense to go to other vacation destinations instead and go to Disneyland on tickets once or twice a year max.

But if you're committed to going to Disneyland enough to break even and there is no chance of changing that to other places, then check your break even point. I have different relatives and friends who keep asking me to go so when I bought my key, I already had August, September and February trips basically set. So no matter what, I would break even on the key so every additional trip is just because I already have a key. So it made sense for me but I am actively trying to convince friends and family to take vacations to other destinations with me instead. Pre-pandemic, I would ask if people want to go to Disneyland together but not anymore.

Of course, if you splurge on Disney hotels each trip, the reservation ability problem may not matter too much. However, hotel status is important to me so I never stay at Disney hotels anymore. In fact, if my relatives didn't want to stay at one of my preferred hotel chains in September, I would not have gotten a key because I wouldn't have gone in September with them and only considered the August trip because of the key. The premium to stay at Disney hotels each time likely outweigh the cost savings from getting a Key over day tickets so going the Disney hotel route only makes sense if you would have stayed at these hotels anyway or if you're a family trying to save money with multiple keys.

 

[DLgal]

It's worse than a 60 day window. It's a 90 day window for pass reservations. I wish it was even just a 60 day window at this point.

Oh, you're right. My bad. I literally just made. Reservation for Jan 22 so I should have realized that.

 

[disland7]

It really depends on the situation you are in. For most of my friends who used to have APs and went 10-20 days a year, it actually makes the most sense to go to other vacation destinations instead and go to Disneyland on tickets once or twice a year max.

But if you're committed to going to Disneyland enough to break even and there is no chance of changing that to other places, then check your break even point. I have different relatives and friends who keep asking me to go so when I bought my key, I already had August, September and February trips basically set. So no matter what, I would break even on the key so every additional trip is just because I already have a key. So it made sense for me but I am actively trying to convince friends and family to take vacations to other destinations with me instead. Pre-pandemic, I would ask if people want to go to Disneyland together but not anymore.

Of course, if you splurge on Disney hotels each trip, the reservation ability problem may not matter too much. However, hotel status is important to me so I never stay at Disney hotels anymore. In fact, if my relatives didn't want to stay at one of my preferred hotel chains in September, I would not have gotten a key because I wouldn't have gone in September with them and only considered the August trip because of the key. The premium to stay at Disney hotels each time likely outweigh the cost savings from getting a Key over day tickets so going the Disney hotel route only makes sense if you would have stayed at these hotels anyway or if you're a family trying to save money with multiple keys.

Curious- what hotel chains do you stay at?

 

[DLgal]

Then give folks 5 cancellations? 10? Seems like you could bump the number up to deal with life getting in the way



Doesn’t shortening the time window make the problem worse? If you had a 7 day window with Dream key folks having 6 reservations at a time why wouldn’t they just keep 6 of the 7 days reserved on a rolling basis?

Well, naturally with a shorter window, you'd have to lower the number of reservations allowed. The only reason they allow so many is because the window spans a quarter of the year at a time.

 

[disland7]

I’m having a really hard time trying to decide what to do myself. We are consistent Disney visitors. 2 5-6 day vacations on an annual pass (nov and oct VGC). Blackout calendar kind of stinks, and the stress of only 4 reservations, buying enough passes for 7 and then add genie . Once I convince myself to just buy park hoppers, I think about the little trips I could maybe take throughout the year with smaller groups of kids and change my mind.

 

[PirateBrigade]

It really depends on the situation you are in. For most of my friends who used to have APs and went 10-20 days a year, it actually makes the most sense to go to other vacation destinations instead and go to Disneyland on tickets once or twice a year max.

I hate saying this part out loud, but during the pandemic, as much as we missed Disneyland... in hindsight, we were pretty well okay.

We went in May after reopening, and to be honest, our "want to go back" meter is sitting at about a 4-5 right now. If you asked me pre-reopening, I would have been 10/10, and would have paid anything.

Maxing out 2 visits a year, no monthly payments, no reservation madness, not worrying about blackout dates and having to do scheduling gymnastics to get it to work (now that AP1 is not on sale), sounds really attractive right now. Taking the extra cash and flying to Hawaii sounds even better.

If we were able to buy AP1 at $1400, I would have probably felt obligated to maximize trips -- that would have cannibalized other vacation options. That's one thing I learned during pandemic...when we'd visit SoCal while holding old AP, we felt like we HAD to go, just to get our money's worth, even if we were down there for an entirely different purpose. AP visit obligation is real!

I’m having a really hard time trying to decide what to do myself. We are consistent Disney visitors. 2 5-6 day vacations on an annual pass (nov and oct VGC). Blackout calendar kind of stinks, and the stress of only 4 reservations, buying enough passes for 7 and then add genie . Once I convince myself to just buy park hoppers, I think about the little trips I could maybe take throughout the year with smaller groups of kids and change my mind.

We were every-other-month visitors pre-pandemic (and VGC owners, contract for ~7 nights/yr) and are moving to your visit frequency (2 x 4 day visits a year -- June and December). The 2nd tier AP still kind of makes sense if we adjust our days...but I'm starting to become commitment-phobic with these passes.

 

[gelatoni fan]

Curious- what hotel chains do you stay at?

I primarily focus on Marriott but am going after Hyatt status this year as well after hitting Marriott . I sometimes stay stay at Hilton properties when they're a good deal relative to Marriott and Hyatt properties in an area but I don't prioritize Hilton because it's hard to get significant value out of their points and I don't have to stay at their properties to requalify for status because of their credit cards.

 

[truetink]

I was holding out on buying all our Believe passes. Now that Dream is sold out, do you think that will push Believe to sell out too?!

 

[bwvBound]

I hate saying this part out loud, but during the pandemic, as much as we missed Disneyland... in hindsight, we were pretty well okay.

We went in May after reopening, and to be honest, our "want to go back" meter is sitting at about a 4-5 right now. If you asked me pre-reopening, I would have been 10/10, and would have paid anything.

Maxing out 2 visits a year, no monthly payments, no reservation madness, not worrying about blackout dates and having to do scheduling gymnastics to get it to work (now that AP1 is not on sale), sounds really attractive right now. Taking the extra cash and flying to Hawaii sounds even better.

If we were able to buy AP1 at $1400, I would have probably felt obligated to maximize trips -- that would have cannibalized other vacation options. That's one thing I learned during pandemic...when we'd visit SoCal while holding old AP, we felt like we HAD to go, just to get our money's worth, even if we were down there for an entirely different purpose. AP visit obligation is real!

Amen! I agree! There is a great big world out there ... and plenty of new things to explore. Try something new! Be bold! Enjoy it thoroughly!

 

[DLgal]

I hate saying this part out loud, but during the pandemic, as much as we missed Disneyland... in hindsight, we were pretty well okay.

We went in May after reopening, and to be honest, our "want to go back" meter is sitting at about a 4-5 right now. If you asked me pre-reopening, I would have been 10/10, and would have paid anything.

Maxing out 2 visits a year, no monthly payments, no reservation madness, not worrying about blackout dates and having to do scheduling gymnastics to get it to work (now that AP1 is not on sale), sounds really attractive right now. Taking the extra cash and flying to Hawaii sounds even better.

If we were able to buy AP1 at $1400, I would have probably felt obligated to maximize trips -- that would have cannibalized other vacation options. That's one thing I learned during pandemic...when we'd visit SoCal while holding old AP, we felt like we HAD to go, just to get our money's worth, even if we were down there for an entirely different purpose. AP visit obligation is real!



We were every-other-month visitors pre-pandemic (and VGC owners, contract for ~7 nights/yr) and are moving to your visit frequency (2 x 4 day visits a year -- June and December). The 2nd tier AP still kind of makes sense if we adjust our days...but I'm starting to become commitment-phobic with these passes.

This makes a lot of sense. I can see how Disneyland has definitely become a less appealing vacation destination.

It's very different for our family. Living so close means Disneyland was part of our routine. The same way people might go to local recreational or sporting events on weekends in between big vacations, we went to the parks pre pandemic. It's literally our local hangout spot, and has been since 2001, basically. During the pandemic, we also became "okay" with not going, but we definitely missed it and realized that there really isn't much else we enjoy doing as a family locally. The beach is seasonal, we aren't hiking/camping people, places like movies and bowling weren't open either, and we really just were bored a LOT. My kids don't play sports or anything so our weekends were always a void of "what should we do." The answer to that question was always Disneyland.

I said if they brought back passes, we would pay anything, and I stand by that. As much as Disney has screwed up lately, on the whole, we still enjoy our days there and feel like our lives are very close to "back to normal." With autistic kids who function best when routines are established and followed, there is something soothing about a day in the parks, even when it's crazy busy and everything seems to be going wrong. The kids, to their credit, don't pick up on any of that, and just being there lifts them up, emotionally. So, we are making the best of the situation.

I think a lot of locals feel the same way. It is so ironic to me that Disney just doesn't seem to want to accept that this is first and foremost a locals park. They should embrace that. They want to treat Disneyland like WDW and keep pushing to make it a vacation destination, but these policies are pushing people away from wanting to come. They are making it hard for people to plan multiple trips using passes and making it hard for even locals to come throw money at them every weekend.

They continue to have problems filling the parks on down days and have to rely on ticket specials and whatnot. They'd do well to cut weekday hours significantly, like 10am- 6 or 8pm (and offer lower ticket prices), lower staffing levels to meet demand, and then go ALL OUT on the weekends (Fri-Sun), with 8am-midnight hours in BOTH parks, FULLY staff up (pay CMs a weekend premium rate) and open the floodgates to full capacity. If they did this, they would get the crowds they want while keeping the experience pleasant for people by running everything at full capacity (shows, dining, rides...all of it).

It's sad that people are considering a Disneyland trip to be too much of a hassle and gamble at this point, but Disneyland created that perception with their poor decisions lately.

I don't know many moms who have 17 and 15 year old sons who still demand to ride Casey Jr. I treasure how they embrace their inner child and don't give a damn about being "cool." I will pay whatever it takes to keep that going. And yeah, that's my 15 year old bounding as the Pixar ball.

 

[RedVines2001]

I think a lot of locals feel the same way. It is so ironic to me that Disney just doesn't seem to want to accept that this is first and foremost a locals park. They should embrace that. They want to treat Disneyland like WDW and keep pushing to make it a vacation destination, but these policies are pushing people away from wanting to come. They are making it hard for people to plan multiple trips using passes and making it hard for even locals to come throw money at them every weekend.

I cannot agree with this more. I’m in the Bay Area so not exactly a SoCal local but pre pandemic I was making it down there every 2 months for 2-3 days at a time. I don’t consider going to DL a “vacation” per se but as a little getaway to decompress. It was a very important piece for my mental health and I considered it a necessity.

Buying the AP wasn’t even a question each year and despite the price hikes the value was still there. I could get into the parks whenever I wanted to and even if it’s super crowded I still had a great time with the family. I had a signature AP before Covid and was debating going Signature Plus. I was spending money in the parks on food Merch and even staying onsite. They were definitely making money off me. But now with reservations and Genie+ coming I feel like they’re just cramming WDW one-in-a-lifetime-visitor sale tactics into DL where it just sits so wrong.

 

[DizMe]

This makes a lot of sense. I can see how Disneyland has definitely become a less appealing vacation destination.

It's very different for our family. Living so close means Disneyland was part of our routine. The same way people might go to local recreational or sporting events on weekends in between big vacations, we went to the parks pre pandemic. It's literally our local hangout spot, and has been since 2001, basically. During the pandemic, we also became "okay" with not going, but we definitely missed it and realized that there really isn't much else we enjoy doing as a family locally. The beach is seasonal, we aren't hiking/camping people, places like movies and bowling weren't open either, and we really just were bored a LOT. My kids don't play sports or anything so our weekends were always a void of "what should we do." The answer to that question was always Disneyland.

I said if they brought back passes, we would pay anything, and I stand by that. As much as Disney has screwed up lately, on the whole, we still enjoy our days there and feel like our lives are very close to "back to normal." With autistic kids who function best when routines are established and followed, there is something soothing about a day in the parks, even when it's crazy busy and everything seems to be going wrong. The kids, to their credit, don't pick up on any of that, and just being there lifts them up, emotionally. So, we are making the best of the situation.

I think a lot of locals feel the same way. It is so ironic to me that Disney just doesn't seem to want to accept that this is first and foremost a locals park. They should embrace that. They want to treat Disneyland like WDW and keep pushing to make it a vacation destination, but these policies are pushing people away from wanting to come. They are making it hard for people to plan multiple trips using passes and making it hard for even locals to come throw money at them every weekend.

They continue to have problems filling the parks on down days and have to rely on ticket specials and whatnot. They'd do well to cut weekday hours significantly, like 10am- 6 or 8pm (and offer lower ticket prices), lower staffing levels to meet demand, and then go ALL OUT on the weekends (Fri-Sun), with 8am-midnight hours in BOTH parks, FULLY staff up (pay CMs a weekend premium rate) and open the floodgates to full capacity. If they did this, they would get the crowds they want while keeping the experience pleasant for people by running everything at full capacity (shows, dining, rides...all of it).

It's sad that people are considering a Disneyland trip to be too much of a hassle and gamble at this point, but Disneyland created that perception with their poor decisions lately.

I don't know many moms who have 17 and 15 year old sons who still demand to ride Casey Jr. I treasure how they embrace their inner child and don't give a damn about being "cool." I will pay whatever it takes to keep that going. And yeah, that's my 15 year old bounding as the Pixar ball.

View attachment 616550

Very fun to put a face to the name! Your boys are adorable, and look at that--you all have the same smile! We're also a Peter Pan family (we never grow up).

 

[DLgal]

I cannot agree with this more. I’m in the Bay Area so not exactly a SoCal local but pre pandemic I was making it down there every 2 months for 2-3 days at a time. I don’t consider going to DL a “vacation” per se but as a little getaway to decompress. It was a very important piece for my mental health and I considered it a necessity.

Buying the AP wasn’t even a question each year and despite the price hikes the value was still there. I could get into the parks whenever I wanted to and even if it’s super crowded I still had a great time with the family. I had a signature AP before Covid and was debating going Signature Plus. I was spending money in the parks on food Merch and even staying onsite. They were definitely making money off me. But now with reservations and Genie+ coming I feel like they’re just cramming WDW one-in-a-lifetime-visitor sale tactics into DL where it just sits so wrong.

It's ridiculous how hard they are trying to change a culture that has been in place for 66 years. Everything they are going to try is going to backfire on them until they relent and embrace the "ownership culture" of the parks here. It is never going to be WDW and they need to do like Elsa and let it go.

 

[mom2rtk]

It's ridiculous how hard they are trying to change a culture that has been in place for 66 years. Everything they are going to try is going to backfire on them until they relent and embrace the "ownership culture" of the parks here. It is never going to be WDW and they need to do like Elsa and let it go.

It's their circus. I expect they're going to do whatever they want.

 

[DLgal]

It's their circus. I expect they're going to do whatever they want.

Oh, of course they are going to try. I just continue to be baffled and amused at their attempts and the fallout where they realize they made a bad call. I predicted the quick return of annual passes as soon as the parks reopened to less than expected crowds. I knew previous pass holders weren't going to just be okay buying full priced tickets all year. It's almost comical how that came back to bite them. Cancelling the annual pass program is among the worst decisions they have ever made. They let go of a steady income stream.

 

[Dory92130]

This makes a lot of sense. I can see how Disneyland has definitely become a less appealing vacation destination.

It's very different for our family. Living so close means Disneyland was part of our routine. The same way people might go to local recreational or sporting events on weekends in between big vacations, we went to the parks pre pandemic. It's literally our local hangout spot, and has been since 2001, basically. During the pandemic, we also became "okay" with not going, but we definitely missed it and realized that there really isn't much else we enjoy doing as a family locally. The beach is seasonal, we aren't hiking/camping people, places like movies and bowling weren't open either, and we really just were bored a LOT. My kids don't play sports or anything so our weekends were always a void of "what should we do." The answer to that question was always Disneyland.

I said if they brought back passes, we would pay anything, and I stand by that. As much as Disney has screwed up lately, on the whole, we still enjoy our days there and feel like our lives are very close to "back to normal." With autistic kids who function best when routines are established and followed, there is something soothing about a day in the parks, even when it's crazy busy and everything seems to be going wrong. The kids, to their credit, don't pick up on any of that, and just being there lifts them up, emotionally. So, we are making the best of the situation.

I think a lot of locals feel the same way. It is so ironic to me that Disney just doesn't seem to want to accept that this is first and foremost a locals park. They should embrace that. They want to treat Disneyland like WDW and keep pushing to make it a vacation destination, but these policies are pushing people away from wanting to come. They are making it hard for people to plan multiple trips using passes and making it hard for even locals to come throw money at them every weekend.

They continue to have problems filling the parks on down days and have to rely on ticket specials and whatnot. They'd do well to cut weekday hours significantly, like 10am- 6 or 8pm (and offer lower ticket prices), lower staffing levels to meet demand, and then go ALL OUT on the weekends (Fri-Sun), with 8am-midnight hours in BOTH parks, FULLY staff up (pay CMs a weekend premium rate) and open the floodgates to full capacity. If they did this, they would get the crowds they want while keeping the experience pleasant for people by running everything at full capacity (shows, dining, rides...all of it).

It's sad that people are considering a Disneyland trip to be too much of a hassle and gamble at this point, but Disneyland created that perception with their poor decisions lately.

I don't know many moms who have 17 and 15 year old sons who still demand to ride Casey Jr. I treasure how they embrace their inner child and don't give a damn about being "cool." I will pay whatever it takes to keep that going. And yeah, that's my 15 year old bounding as the Pixar ball.

View attachment 616550

My 20 autistic son and I are right with you - Pooh and Nemo subs top his list just as much as Big Thunder. We find a way forward despite some of Disney's recent failings.

 

[PirateBrigade]

This makes a lot of sense. I can see how Disneyland has definitely become a less appealing vacation destination.

It's very different for our family. Living so close means Disneyland was part of our routine. The same way people might go to local recreational or sporting events on weekends in between big vacations, we went to the parks pre pandemic. It's literally our local hangout spot, and has been since 2001, basically. During the pandemic, we also became "okay" with not going, but we definitely missed it and realized that there really isn't much else we enjoy doing as a family locally. The beach is seasonal, we aren't hiking/camping people, places like movies and bowling weren't open either, and we really just were bored a LOT. My kids don't play sports or anything so our weekends were always a void of "what should we do." The answer to that question was always Disneyland.

I said if they brought back passes, we would pay anything, and I stand by that. As much as Disney has screwed up lately, on the whole, we still enjoy our days there and feel like our lives are very close to "back to normal." With autistic kids who function best when routines are established and followed, there is something soothing about a day in the parks, even when it's crazy busy and everything seems to be going wrong. The kids, to their credit, don't pick up on any of that, and just being there lifts them up, emotionally. So, we are making the best of the situation.

I think a lot of locals feel the same way. It is so ironic to me that Disney just doesn't seem to want to accept that this is first and foremost a locals park. They should embrace that. They want to treat Disneyland like WDW and keep pushing to make it a vacation destination, but these policies are pushing people away from wanting to come. They are making it hard for people to plan multiple trips using passes and making it hard for even locals to come throw money at them every weekend.

I'm so torn about the whole thing because I've held an AP, off-and-on, since 2003 -- as a single person living in OC, with a girlfriend living in OC (and going to the parks after class on a Friday because....well, that's what you do!), being a DINK married couple in OC, and having a child and living in Nor-Cal (and that whole level of planning). Crowds that didn't bother me before... bothered me, it was almost as if no amount of price increases would keep folks away.

Then the passes get pulled and the system messed with... it seems like no one is happy, unless you've gotten lucky with reservations.

Anyway, I've decided to upgrade the tickets in December to the lowest possible pass available, just to preserve the value of the tickets spent. One more 3 day trip, and I hit break-even. I just need to get lucky once with reservations, and I'm good.

And I hate saying this, but MSEP (and a daughter who may soon enter her angsty teen years) may have had something to do with that. Agh! Oh well.

 

[AndrewC]

Disneyland has sold out of the top-priced Magic Key after just two months as complaints from angry passholders continue to echo throughout social media about the widespread lack of reservations available for the $1,399 pass with no blockout dates.

“The Dream Key is more like a Nightmare Key,” Jane Friday wrote on Instagram. “It’s an unbelievable amount of money to spend to have nothing but weekday reservations available.”

Keyholders can visit either Disneyland or DCA any day their passes are not blocked out and reservations are available. Keyholders can make two, four or six reservations at a time in a 90-day window depending on their pass type.

How entitled are these people!?

Keys went on sale Aug 25th with a 90 day window.

Book a Saturday and Sunday for Aug 28th and 29th, September 4th and 5th, and October 2nd and 3rd. (Six days)

As soon as you use your August dates you can then book the next day that falls into the 90 day window, which would be November 26th (day after Thanksgiving). You could book 26th and 27th. (Two Days)

You make your September visit and then decide to wait a few more days to book your next two open reservations because you want December 25th and 26th (Christmas, Sat, and day after, Sun). They open up September 26th. (So heck, you could visit a couple weeknights after work between September 5th and September 25th, just have both reservations open and ready to book by September 26th.) (Two Days)

You enter the park the moment it opens on October 2nd and immediately try to make a reservation for 90 days out, which so happens to be December 31st, New Years. Maybe New Years will fill up starting at 12:01am when reservations open, but maybe it'll last a day or two in which case if you book at 8am or 9am the day reservations open you'll be fine. You also book January 1st. (Two Days)

You visit the weekend after Thanksgiving and leave your two open reservations open for a couple days and as soon as the window opens you book February 26th and 27th (Sat/Sun). (Two Days)

You visit during Christmas and wait a couple weeks (night weekday visits?) with your two open reservations so you can book the moment April 16th and 17th open (Easter). (Two Days)

You visit for your random February weekend and wait a day or two and book the moment May 28th and 29th open up which is Memorial Day weekend. (Two Days)

You visit over Easter weekend and then book July 16th and 17th (Sat/Sun). (Two Days)

You have now run out of 90 day windows before your pass expires, but starting right after Memorial Day weekend you'll have two or more reservations that become open for weekday stays (summer, kids aren't in school, it's easier to do a week day) or last minute weekend cancellations.

That's 20 visits over the year that are ALL SATURDAY AND SUNDAY visits and you visit the days after Thanksgiving, during Christmas, during New Years, Easter weekend, AND Memorial Day weekend.

Your $1,399 pass with 20 visits results in $70/day. If you bought a single park 2 day ticket for all those dates it would average $127.50/day so the pass is saving you almost $60 every day, plus free parking and discounts on food and merch. This would be the most strict "schedule" to come up with that you HAD to only go on weekends and by LUCK it worked out this first year that you would hit a lot of holidays too! This took maybe 15 minutes for me to think about. I'm sure you could optimize it better, or carry only 4 weekends at a time and have two floating days which were always ready for the edge of the 90 day window or random afterwork during the week visits. If you're local (like 60 min or less drive) and LOVED Disney, you probably could easily visit 40 times during the year with at least 30% to 50% of the visits being weekends, and probably even the major holidays.

SUCH a nightmare!



(I will admit, I could see some extra revenue here if Disney added a "premium" reservation option past your 6. Once your six days were booked they could charge $5/day to make another week day reservation, $10/day if a Sat/Sun, and $15 if it's a holiday or the day before/after. You could cancel these, but you would not be refunded your payment and if you were a no show it counted against you. This could allow people to either purchase lower passes but pay for extra days (if not blocked out) or allow the real heavy users with the top passes to have extra reservations. It also allows out of state people like me that might do 7 or 8 days to secure all those reservations without having to stay on site)

 

[AndrewC]

So the Dream Key had no block out dates, yet it does have block out dates. I would be irate to have bought such and not be able to get in, but day tickets could get in. That's is messed up!!!

There are no blockout days. If you keep a reservation open at any time you could get any day of the year you want. If Christmas, New Years, 4th of July, Labor Day, Memorial Day, etc is important to you the Dream key would get you all of those. It takes a little planning, but most holidays are spread far enough apart that you could hit all the major ones and still have one or two floating open reservations for random days.

 

[SOCALMouseMommy]

@AndrewC your scenario only works if you bought the Dream Key in the first month. When I bought my Dream Key in October the next available weekend reservation was January 9. It was good they paused the sales of that key. It is a stupid amount of money to not have access to weekend days for the next three months.

I am lucky that I can use my key on weekdays (with my younger son) AND weekends, but my older son can only go on weekends because he’s in school. He has Believe and when I decided to pull the trigger and buy our keys I chose to gamble on being able to pick up cancelations in November and December. We will see how that goes.