Magic 11/16/02 Illness - THIS IS WHERE YOU CAN POST ABOUT THIS INCIDENT

Just to let everybody know, this virus is not only on ships. In our paper today the front page had an article about 400 cases being reported in IA to date. There has been 7 outbreaks in the state. This is just a nasty year for the Norwalk virus. I had it when we were in Ft. Lauderdale at the beginning of Nov. Also remember, there is a small incubation and the virus usually lasts one to two days. Dehydration is the side effect and of course older people and young children are easy targets for that.

The best prevention is hand washing, can't repeat that enough. This virus can also be spread in the air. Most cruisers get to the ports via airplanes. I swear I was infected on the plane. I was the only one in our group to use the lavatory on the plane and yes, I washed my hands. In our group of 4 I was the only one sick and we were in a 2 bedroom suite. I hope this virus dies out before the Spring Break cruise. Kathy
 
Someone on this board also reported that it is in their hospital in Canada....so that leads to the question.........are they ever going to get rid of it? Certainly they are not going to require a clean bill of health for all cruisers before they are allowed to sail! And if you had a cruise scheduled a year in advance, and happen to have the scoots the day before you board, are you willing to cancel your vacation plans?:rolleyes:

I truely hope that this dock cleaning will take care of the problems. I just have my doubts:confused:
 
As a health care professional, it is everywhere. Always has been. Tis the season!
Remember"WASH YOUR HANDS!!!!!!!
 

I posted this elsewhere and then realized it probably should have gone in this thread instead since this is where the discussion on the virus hitting Disney is (sorry for the repeat for anyone reading it in both places).

My husband and 11 year old son are booked for the cruise leaving 1/9 and are spending about a week prior at Cape Canaveral and WDW. Would be happy to try to meet anyone here who cares to catch up with us, maybe over a drink of wine as I plan to drink wine every single day after reading some post about wine killing the Norwalk virus in 45 minutes or less. I wish I could find something online from the CDC confirming that all the people who were sick on the cruise never had wine with dinner and all those who did never got sick - anyone know of a site online where this is noted by the CDC?

I can share a few things, and hope Michele doesn't get upset with me for doing so (I really don't want to hurt her travel business, but do want to have people be informed). When I heard about the Disney Magic having so many illnesses likely due to a virus, my first thought was, "It will be at the WDW resorts and parks by the time we arrive in January, if it isn't there already, as many people add a WDW vacation after a Disney Cruise and won't even feel sick while contagious the first few days." Having heard of others being sick at WDW in the past couple months who never took any cruise, I am guessing it's long since been there. So my suggestion for anyone who enjoys wine (or can tolerate drinking it and isn't going to become addicted drinking it during a vacation, as it is far better to be sick a couple days than have to shake an alcohol addiction later) is to not only drink wine when on a cruise, but while at the WDW resort and parks (though I suspect not all the restaurants at the resorts offer wine, and I need to learn which do and don't as I never took note of this in all my visits past - anyone know this information offhand?).

Think about where the CDC has said this virus most takes hold - hospitals, nursing homes, schools, cruises....yes, all areas with people sharing a similar space, BUT with the exception of the cruises, also all areas where wine is not on the menu! At first, I thought the wine as a cure concept an old (or new) wives' tale (not to insult any wives - might have started from an unmarried male for all I know). However, giving it more thought, and especially if the CDC survey information about who drink wine with dinner and who got sick being completely mutually exclusive sets, this could indeed be a cure and one that tastes better than Peptodismal, I mean Pepto Bismal.

I am puzzled as to why in the CDC interview Michele ever so kindly posted a link for (and thanks, Michele, for that!) had not a single person asking what the number of people sick on the Disney Wonder currently is, as since two ships at the same port have come down with an outbreak of the same thing, I don't think it would be much of a jump to think it will "jump ship" to another cruise ship sharing the same port (where employees of both cruise lines likely mingle from time to time), especially when it also might share some of the same crew (do the Disney crew ever switch cruise ships? I know a guy who used to be a lifeguard at one of WDW resorts and also was a crew member of one these Disney ships and should ask him, but if he can bounce from a resort to the cruise ship, I would think others could bounce from ship to ship). Similarly, nobody talks about how many people are sick in the WDW resorts and parks, though this can be harder to track as so few would report it and unlike with cruises, hotels and amusement parks aren't required (far as I know - feel free anyone to correct me if I am wrong) to report figures regarding illness to the CDC.

I know my brother sure never reported to anyone when his daughter got sick, and while it happened on a Disney bus (she vomited on the way to their hotel from one of the water parks, where she felt so sick that my brother - an MD who wouldn't likely bother to go to another doctor unless it was a life threatening emergency - decided it best to take her back to their room and scrap the rest of the day at the park ). I doubt bus drivers are reporting vomiting incidents, either. I don't recall the exact day this happened, but think it was around October 19th that they arrived as I know my nieces made it to our son's Halloween party on 10/26 and hadn't been back from Disney long, so my guess is the Norwalk virus has been at Disney awhile. On a cruise ship, it can also be onboard awhile with people having no clue it is a virus - just thinking it is sea sickness or food poisoning or the flu or whatever (of which there is likely all in some measure on any cruise). Also, some who catch the Norwalk virus won't know they caught it when they disembark and fill out the CDC forms as they will still be in the first hours of transmission where they are possibly spreading the virus but asymptomatic, so the figures of how many got sick from something picked up on each cruise are likely underestimates (though by how much, I am not sure, as more and more could get sick as the week progresses since if you know two friends, and they each spread your germs to two of their friends, etc....an illness can get more rampant as time goes by, especially with a mere 12 to 48 hour incubation period illness as this one I believe is - it is an exponential math problem I should leave to my math major son).

Anyway, the interesting thing is my brother and his wife, who were at Disney for some wine festival they have at Epcot or something once each year, drink wine every single day and the two of them never got sick, even being with a daughter who vomited. By the way, they said the wine festival was fabulous, which is a huge compliment coming from these two as they are connoisseurs with an incredible custom wine cellar and my sister-inlaw heads a $40+K wine tasting fundraiser for the American Cancer Society each year - they know wine...so if you enjoy wine, book through Michele if you want to be a part of a good wine festival next year! Oh, and my niece (who could have been exposed by contaminated water at the water park, for all we know, so maybe staying out of the water is also a good idea - my sister-inlaw never went into the water) was fine by dinner - ate a lot and never vomited or had the severe cramping again the rest of the day (or trip).

As with many, I will be celebrating a birthday on this trip, and have been looking forward to this celebration on the Disney cruise for four years and had some others book with us, so I'll be disappointed if any in our party get sick. However, as far as I can tell, this is a rather quick sickness and not deadly or related to anything deadly (like some sexually transmitted viruses have been linked to cervical cancer, so other viruses are likely linked to other deadly diseases), so I am keeping it in perspective. My question of the hour is "Can Disney stock up on non-alcoholic "wine" for the children on board and would it be legal to serve it to them and would it offer the same protection against Norwalk as alcoholic wine?" Our son has never had alcohol, other than cooked into sauces and desserts at restuarants, but I tell you, I almost wish he could legally drink some wine for this trip
 
Originally posted by Party Mouse
Would be happy to try to meet anyone here who cares to catch up with us, maybe over a drink of wine as I plan to drink wine every single day after reading some post about wine killing the Norwalk virus in 45 minutes or less. I wish I could find something online from the CDC confirming that all the people who were sick on the cruise never had wine with dinner and all those who did never got sick - anyone know of a site online where this is noted by the CDC?
I assume that the post "Norwalk Virus Cure!!????" was meant to be a joke, either by Ismac or by the person who posted the "information" that she copied and pasted.

If wine could actually prevent or cure serious viral illnesses such as e coli, it would be big, big news. If the CDC had actually reported a connection between wine consumption on cruise ships and the prevention of illness from Norwalk virus, it would be big, big news.

If only wine were the cure...
 
Nothing would surprise me...
Afterall, the media is always reporting wine being used medicinally by Italians to reduce cholesterol. :)
 
hmmm... this wine cure wouldn't be a rumor started by someone wanting to sell more wine on board cruise ships would it...

Laughing! Just kidding...

I think the packing frenzy is getting to me... either that or the cold weather has froze my brain cells...
 
partymouse.....I think the reason you don't see so many people sick at Disney from Norwalk is because they are never really near the same people for any amount of time. They are not in the same close proximity like a cruise ship...unless waiting on line counts. I just think that WDW is so large and has such a transient nature that it would be very hard to track who got sick and when.

As far as the little girl getting sick on the bus, her symptoms do not sound like Norwalk at all. If she only had one incident of being sick, she probably had something else, maybe too much sun, excitment or a combo of both. Most people report being sick for two-three days with constant trips to the "bathroom".

BTW.....which CM do you know that used to work at one of the Water Parks and now works on one of the ship...as I know one also. It would be funny if it was the same person!!!

MJ
 
From http://131.104.232.9/fsnet/2002/6-2002/fsnet_june_8.htm
(and ironically immediately following a story on the Norwalk virus being on another cruise ship this past summer)

WINE MAY BECOME A KITCHEN DISINFECTANT
June 6, 2002
Engine54
http://www.cgsentinel.com/news/community/cg_community-04.html#TopOfPage
CORVALLIS - Scientists at Oregon State University are working on a new,
natural kitchen disinfectant: white wine.
Food researchers at OSU recently learned that wine kills bacteria when it is
consumed with a meal. That means those who take wine with their entrée are
less likely to come down with food poisoning.
Something in the grape has antibacterial properties that kill germs that
cause common types of food poisoning, such as E. Coli and Salmonella. It
also kills a number of other bacteria that cause illness.

Now Norwalk is a virus and not a bacteria, so the above might not mean much. It also could be people drinking wine aren't drinking water in the form of ice cubes which could be contaminated, though I doubt this is the case since the water supply on the ship has been checked and seems fine (though it still could be from swimming pools, as this is noted at http://cpmcnet.columbia.edu/texts/guide/hmg18_0013.html as a way the virus can spread).

Then again, Norwalk, even being a virus, might be similar to bacteria here (and only having taken biology in 10th grade many years ago, do our white blood cells attack bateria differently than viruses and do we not have but one type of white blood cell?) as at http://www.hi-tm.com/homeprep/home-III.html it states: "Foodborne infection occurs when humans consume low numbers (1 to 100) of pathogenic pasteurization-sensitive microorganisms that then multiply in the body. Symptoms of illness can occur in no less than 8 hours, but usually 2 or 3 days to weeks are required for infectious microorganisms such as Salmonella and Shigella (bacteria), Norwalk virus or Hepatitis A virus, or Giardia and Cryptosporidium (parasites) to multiply in the body, causing the development of illness or disease." Since the microorganisms work similarly, maybe they can be knocked out similarly.

But I note that I am not a scientist or a doctor! I am simply trying to piece together what could make a vacation go smoother...but I will note I am not a psychic friend nor a detective with a badge either!

Here's to every having smooth sailing! I'll toast to that! :)
 
I've actually heard that a number of people sick on the cruise were indeed sick in just the manner my niece was (cramps for a very short time, vomit, and done) - haven't there been posts on this board of that nature (I'm thinking their have, but maybe not)? And I doubt the gal was sick from excitement - they had been there for days already and she goes to Disney every year, so this wasn't something new for her. I'm not saying it *couldn't* have been something else, as surely it could have been, but it does seem suspicious. It reminds me of when I was 5 and stepped on a bee at a birthday party and the next day was in a different state and a whole hive attacked me and my father on a walk. I said the bees must have sensed the bee guts on my shoe and thus been attacking - everyone thought me a silly 5 year old, till about 15 years later when scientists announced that bees have a fluid in them they can release when under attack to signal to bees within (I believe this is the right distance) about 100 yards to come help *and* that squashing a bee can release this fluid. Now, here I am not saying the sickness seeming similar *must* be Norwalk, but again, it does seem suspicious.

As for the guy I know who worked at a Disney resort and on one of their ships, he isn't working there now. He is about to finish his undergraduate degree in biology and is a friend of our son's. I'm not sure how long ago he last worked for Disney.
 
Guess who is back on board the 01/11/03 Magic :-)

I'm happy to report that DCL has made many positive changes regarding sanitation. I sent a letter suggesting these changes (and I suspect others did too).

1) A placard is in your stateroom advising you of handwashing guidelines. This is a basic instruction sheet on how to wash your hands.

2) restaurants have a sign out front advising you to wash your hands before eating

3) public handicapped bathrooms now have soap. On the 11/16/02 Magic cruise they didn't !

4) No more babies in diapers at Pool. I saw CM politely ejecting several mom's and their kids in pampers.

KenP - 11/16/02 Magic Survivor

p.s. I have my purell and will use it after typing this note!!!
 
On the Wonder they were passing out Sanitary wipes to guests as they entered Beach Blanket Buffet. This was on the January 2nd cruise.
Ann
 
We were very impressed with all the measure taken on our 1/4 Magic cruise. I kept by bottle of Purell with me and told all my teens to do the same.

Actually, the weather was a bit chilly for me to be in the pools at all, so I did not worry about "cataching" anything in there. I have to say, that I used the public bathrooms quite a bit (had lots to drink this cruise, ha ha ha) and always saw everyone washing up afterwards, which is common sense, but does not always happen. I think people are reading the placards and paying attention now. Thank goodness!!!!

We saw one little boy throw up while in his stroller on the way to the WWTBAM show at 6:30.....didn't stay around to find out what happened!

I did not hear much sickness talk at all last week.

MJ
 

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