Love to Hate Disney?

[Madteaparty001]

I'm not sure what portion of Josh's post qualified as "snotty". In a nutshell, his argument is to base your opinion of TWDC on the quality of their product as perceived by YOU, not on what others from a discussion forum have to say about. I couldn't agree more, actually.

While the intention behind Sarah's post was innocent and it appears that she has already obtained the answer that she was seeking, it's pretty plain to see what direction this thread was going to head. And frankly, you're just as guilty of adding fuel to the "pixie pounders" vs "negative nellies" fire as anyone.

Can't we simply agree that there is validity to both sides of the argument, and let it be up to the individual to listen to the counterpoints and make a determination as to where they stand on the subject?

I was pretty sure what I thought was snotty was obvious in my post, him trashing on the thread by basically calling it worthless and telling people to post elsewhere. Just because he didn't like it doesn't mean it didn't add value in any sort of way, someone was seeking perspective and they got it. I also don't think any of my posts have been inflammatory, if you view them that way then I'm sorry to have offended. The problem is that quite often neither side will acknowledge the validity of the other. Posts filled with 100% negative and 100% rose colored glasses drives a conversation to a dead end pretty fast.

 

[Andrew015]

I didn't join the boards until recently, but that doesn't mean I haven't visited. Are you saying that only a long standing member is allowed to express opinions?

Settle down. If you couldn't figure out that my comment was simply a light-hearted joke, I think you'll need a bit more coffee and/or pixie dust to get you through the day.

Having said that, I also find humor in your responses. Isn't it ironic how every "new member" on any forum (I participate on many) that acts like a long time vet has "been visiting for years". You'll never hear anything to the contrary.

 

[LeeAndRobin]

But if i recall... There was a very tedious "why don't you pound dust" thread a few months ago that went nowhere...

That thread was a query concerning actual operating costs of the monorail vs. buses. I set up the thread asking that only actual numbers be used, from confirmed sources. If there were no such, that would have been fine with me. But the thread devolved quickly into your mantra of "the monorail is inefficient and expensive vs. buses", none of which you could give ANY numbers to substantiate.

I've forgotten/moved on...why are we revisiting things Again, Jolly Roger? Refresh, please...

I'd like to, but in almost every thread you repeat your mantra of "all Disney wants in more profits, they no longer care about the consumer, blah, blah, blah". I have no problem with criticism of Disney. There is much about it I don't like. But unlike you, I'm not on a moral crusade to try to convince everyone that they have had it.

Interestingly enough, the two posters that you specifically called out - LockedOut and Josh - are far from what you described.

No, in LockedOut's case, I am correct. I challenge you to find one post from him on the rumor board in the last year that is overall positive in nature. I doubt you will.

However, if you actually take the time to listen to their arguments rather than dismiss them as "negative banter", you will find that they are almost always based in fact or formed on an opinion that is backed by enough evidence/support to seem plausible.

Well, based on what LockedOut himself claims in the "How Credible is Jim Hill?" thread, only the people in the boardroom inner circle know what's going on anyway. So if you believe his arguments about the total lack of credible inside sources, his arguments by definition are just speculation like everyone else. On the other hand, if you believe he has some inside knowledge, then it can't be true that only the inner circle knows what's going on. You can't have it both ways.

Speaking specifically of LockedOut, he worked the front lines and speaks from experience that the typical "Disney can do no wrongeth" won't have.

Do you really, seriously believe that someone working at Disney for a few years over 10 years ago gives them any special insight into what's occurring in the company today?

 

[Andrew015]

I was pretty sure what I thought was snotty was obvious in my post, him trashing on the thread by basically calling it worthless and telling people to post elsewhere. Just because he didn't like it doesn't mean it didn't add value in any sort of way, someone was seeking perspective and they got it. I also don't think any of my posts have been inflammatory, if you view them that way then I'm sorry to have offended. The problem is that quite often neither side will acknowledge the validity of the other. Posts filled with 100% negative and 100% rose colored glasses drives a conversation to a dead end pretty fast.

He didn't use the word useless. He called it boring, and judging by how this thread is quickly unraveling, again, I think he was spot on in his assessment.

 

[3DisneyFanz]

He didn't use the word useless. He called it boring, and judging by how this thread is quickly unraveling, again, I think he was spot on in his assessment.

I'd say far from boring. You had to know once someone decided to call specific posters out it was going to get interesting.

 

[LOL!]

Isn't it ironic how every "new member" on any forum (I participate on many) that acts like a long time vet has "been visiting for years". You'll never hear anything to the contrary.

There are so many things wrong with that comment that I truly don't know where to start, other than to say I'm just glad I'm not the one who made it.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I didnt work at aloha isle...and it was - matter of fact - during the most tumultuous (arguably) period in wdw history. Wisdom come from the lows...not the highs. As always in life.

Do you seriously believe that there isn't natural selection in business?...as there is with every other thing on this asteroid?

But whatever.

Oh yes...the monorails...

The monorails are a high cost, limited coverage system that faces an uncertain future.

Going on 30 years of service... Far in excess of any current or previous set of trains... Really should be a question mark for anyone looking into it...

Buses offer flexibility for the cost... The monorail does not. And while the monorail is partially... Maybe more than partially... a selling point - The price history of the 3 hotels they serve indicated they aren't necessary at this point to sell the rooms. Boats arent that bad.

I say this not to jack the thread... But to point out what was missed. As Always...the how is harped on more than the what.

And how exactly do you think I came to the "don't believe the employees stance on rumors"?

Just a thought.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

And for the record...I've been positive about some of the theory/developements at downtown Disney...

The "find a positive post within a year on news and rumors"...answered the question itself...

Where have the complimentary things been?

It's been alot of price increases for premium upsells, sketchy details on a 6 year project, and closures with fan speculation and no substance... For the last 365 days in Florida...

And DVC...ill compliment that - I can stay at the poly now

 

[Andrew015]

I'd say far from boring. You had to know once someone decided to call specific posters out it was going to get interesting.

I guess if you're looking for cheap entertainment, you're right. I've seen enough food fights in the Rumors & News forum that I yawn at the thought of another one.

 

[Andrew015]

There are so many things wrong with that comment that I truly don't know where to start, other than to say I'm just glad I'm not the one who made it.

Again, I'm calling it like I see it. This isn't my first rodeo on this forum or many others covering a multitude of different subjects. Perhaps your the exception to the rule, and if so, I do apologize.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

It's tiring...but "hey you" by name is something that even the most "negative nancies" doesn't do...

That's something the fake account pot stirrers do...

I don't get excited at this board...it's satire to me mostly... Except where I answer questions and give reviews - as often on dining and resort threads...

But the "white knight" approach here is annoying...I'll admit.

Defending the strong is always the right tact for the consumer - it seems.

 

[Jon84]

I think people who have been many times are more likely to be upset about the slow pace of change.

As someone who has only been 3 times and can't frequent the parks as often as I'd like (twice a year max), there's still so much that I have yet to see and explore. Therefore it does not bother me so much.

 

[nilla]

A lot of people don't like change.

 

[3DisneyFanz]

This kind of solidifies for me that I'm missing the context of a period of years during which it seems (to put it oh so eloquently) visitors started getting less bang for their buck. So it's probably not a viewpoint I can relate to as far as my WDW experiences go, but I do at least understand it better now. Thanks!

I think what you'll find is the people who are most critical with the current product grew up with a different Disney culture where guest experience and protecting the brand were key components of operations.

 

[iamsarahpotts]

I think people who have been many times are more likely to be upset about the slow pace of change.

As someone who has only been 3 times and can't frequent the parks as often as I'd like (twice a year max), there's still so much that I have yet to see and explore. Therefore it does not bother me so much.

Ya, I guess initially I was thinking that if you are a DVC member, have an annual pass and/or visit multiple times a year, it's because you LOVE Disney...so why would you complain? But if any or all of those things are true put into the context of a longer-term relationship with Disney where (as multiple posters have now explained) cost has increased while the experience hasn't also bettered accordingly or even been maintained, then one could argue those people especially have the right to be disgruntled.

 

[Planogirl]

Why can't some understand that to some of us Disney has changed for the worse and our concerns have nothing to do with disliking change itself? I see this comment a lot and speaking for myself I love change. I love to see new places and I get excited about new attractions at old places. However I really don't like change just for the sake of change.

As for this thread, I wouldn't exactly call it boring but it is unfortunate. I don't like to see good posters attacked particularly those who IMO add a lot of value to the forum. It's ironic when I see so-called positive people attack others but neither side should do it and in fairness both sides do. I see a tendency to only blame and go after one side though.

 

[3DisneyFanz]

I think people who have been many times are more likely to be upset about the slow pace of change.

As someone who has only been 3 times and can't frequent the parks as often as I'd like (twice a year max), there's still so much that I have yet to see and explore. Therefore it does not bother me so much.

I can only speak for myself but pace of change is not as critical for me as type of change. I enjoy SM as much today as I did the week it opened. I also don't care that Horizons was lost and replaced with a new attraction. I loved Horizons as a kid but it is what it is. I didn't mind Mission to Mars becoming Alien Encounter but I did mind it becoming Stitch because that's terrible. I also don't care for the change when there is nothing to replace it. HS is full of attraction buildings that have been empty for years. I loved Sounds Dangerous and wouldn't have minded it closing if it hadn't become an empty building.

I also don't know why there was a change from cool area specific merchandise to generic Disney Parks products (actually I do know why and it wasn't consumer driven) or why Main Street in MK had to become one giant store. How many Main Streets in any town have you been to with no alleys or side streets.

I don't mind change as long as it's consumer driven and designed to benefit the customer and the experience. I do mind change when it's specifically designed to lessen the guest experience which we've seen a lot of lately.

 

[Jon84]

Ya, I guess initially I was thinking that if you are a DVC member, have an annual pass and/or visit multiple times a year, it's because you LOVE Disney...so why would you complain? But if any or all of those things are true put into the context of a longer-term relationship with Disney where (as multiple posters have now explained) cost has increased while the experience hasn't also bettered accordingly or even been maintained, then one could argue those people especially have the right to be disgruntled.

Yeah you are right, everyone has an opinion as everyone's touring style and attendance and expectation is different. You've probably opened a massive, but interesting, can of worms

A comparison could be made to Universal, Comcast is ploughing money (Potter, Springfield, Kong, F&F, Nintendo) into what has been a struggling resort (due to some bad previous owners), maybe WDW is coming up to a similar renaissance that UOR has been going through,

The Execs are implying this (Avatar, Pixar/Star Wars Lands, Rivers of Light) but its difficult to get excited with long timescales. Spreading projects over multiple financial years gives financial benefits to the company and it's shareholders, keeping profits steady instead of splashing all the cash.

Yes it the keeping the brand number one and guest satisfaction used to look like number one, but I'd be a fool to assume it's never been run as a business before the Eisner days.

I do mind change when it's specifically designed to lessen the guest experience which we've seen a lot of lately.

I don't think it's done to annoy people, it's a business decision to centralise costs at Disney Parks world wide.

 

[JoshuaShaw]

Isn't it ironic how every "new member" on any forum (I participate on many) that acts like a long time vet has "been visiting for years". You'll never hear anything to the contrary.

Or was arbitraily banned"voluntarily left" and just created a new username.

As for the topic at hand, I would argue that the people who may seem the most vocal about changes they perceive as being for the worst love Disney more than the people who are happy with whatever scraps Disney deigns to feed them from the table.

I can only speak for myself but pace of change is not as critical for me as type of change. I enjoy SM as much today as I did the week it opened. I also don't care that Horizons was lost and replaced with a new attraction. I loved Horizons as a kid but it is what it is. I didn't mind Mission to Mars becoming Alien Encounter but I did mind it becoming Stitch because that's terrible. I also don't care for the change when there is nothing to replace it. HS is full of attraction buildings that have been empty for years. I loved Sounds Dangerous and wouldn't have minded it closing if it hadn't become an empty building.

I also don't know why there was a change from cool area specific merchandise to generic Disney Parks products (actually I do know why and it wasn't consumer driven) or why Main Street in MK had to become one giant store. How many Main Streets in any town have you been to with no alleys or side streets.

I don't mind change as long as it's consumer driven and designed to benefit the customer and the experience. I do mind change when it's specifically designed to lessen the guest experience which we've seen a lot of lately.

Bingo. Good change is good, bad change is bad. Lately Disney has been erring on the side of bad change.

 

[916chipndale]

Why can't some understand that to some of us Disney has changed for the worse and our concerns have nothing to do with disliking change itself? I see this comment a lot and speaking for myself I love change. I love to see new places and I get excited about new attractions at old places. However I really don't like change just for the sake of change.

As for this thread, I wouldn't exactly call it boring but it is unfortunate. I don't like to see good posters attacked particularly those who IMO add a lot of value to the forum. It's ironic when I see so-called positive people attack others but neither side should do it and in fairness both sides do. I see a tendency to only blame and go after one side though.

Yep, I love change... I just don't like FP+. Sadly that is really the only change over the last few years and it's also the most major one. Maelstrom being changed is another I don't like. But guess what? If they were to change Stitches Great Escape I wouldn't mind it. Or change Monsters Inc Laugh floor, which I really like. But it has no reason to be in Tomorrowland. Change is good, not all change is good.