LOVE or HATE FP+ Anyone's mind been changed ??

[BugsDaddy]

No dog in this fight, but, here is a simple calculation that is not "solving for "x" trying to make up a big number (or a small one):
Family of 4 who flies:

Air=$315 per person=$1260 (I don't know about you, but those days of $99 per person r/t are definitely over.)
Hotel=$165 per night (all in, taxes and fees included) for 7 nights = $1,155
Tickets = $350 per person = $1400
Meal Plan and any other food = $60 per person per day for 7 days = $1690

Total = $5495.

Every one of these line items can be shaved except tickets. But not by very much. If the airfare is on sale and you catch a $200 per person flight, and you stay at a hotel for $110 per night and you eat QS for every meal, you can get that down to $4090. So bottom line? A family that flies and stays for a week and stays on site is pretty much looking at $4K minimum

I think you could cut the food costs way down but would agree that it would be between 3k and 4k for a family of 4 staying 7 days if taking advantage of discounts. Possibly less by staying offsite. But I would also argue that there are not many other locations that offer the all immersive 12 to 16 hour a day entertainment factor for that price point.

 

[JimmyV]

a family of 3 can go for $909 for 3 nights. That's pretty... reasonable.

Unfortunately, that is a tough argument to make with this crowd. When was the last time you read a post here about how someone just returned from a 3 day vacation? And compare that to the posts that say that they just returned from a 10 day vacation. It's a tough sell here that 3 days at WDW is a "real trip".

 

[JimmyV]

I think you could cut the food costs way down but would agree that it would be between 3k and 4k for a family of 4 staying 7 days if taking advantage of discounts. Possibly less by staying offsite. But I would also argue that there are not many other locations that offer the all immersive 12 to 16 hour a day entertainment factor for that price point.

Agree 100%. When one factors in driving and an off site stay at a condo, the game changes completely. And other than a cruise or a trip to a foreign country, I can't think of too many places that compare to the immersive 12 to 16 hours a day that one gets at WDW. (Though staying off site does nip away at some of that).

 

[MrInfinity]

Unfortunately, that is a tough argument to make with this crowd. When was the last time you read a post here about how someone just returned from a 3 day vacation? And compare that to the posts that say that they just returned from a 10 day vacation. It's a tough sell here that 3 days at WDW is a "real trip".

Well... so is the requirement that Disney now be so affordable that someone on a $30,000 a year income should be able to stay on property for 10 days? That would be getting kind of absurd. I haven't been able to afford a 10-day vacation most of my life, and I make a decent living. So I picked the lowest offer that Disney is publicly putting out there, and it's really not that bad. If we were to go to the Dells for a vacation, we'd go for about 3 days. So it's not unreasonable to compare doing Disney for that long. Doesn't matter if people who can afford more tend to pay more and stay longer. If you can do a 3-night Disney stay for $909, that's pretty good and real-world affordable.

 

[jade1]

No dog in this fight, but, here is a simple calculation that is not "solving for "x" trying to make up a big number (or a small one):
Family of 4 who flies:

Air=$315 per person=$1260 (I don't know about you, but those days of $99 per person r/t are definitely over.)
Hotel=$165 per night (all in, taxes and fees included) for 7 nights = $1,155
Tickets = $350 per person = $1400
Meal Plan and any other food = $60 per person per day for 7 days = $1690

Total = $5495.

Really shows how the ticket price increase was insignificant, trip went from about $5,400 to $5,495.

Heck it would be $4,000 if WDW parks were free.

 

[lauradis]

Really shows how the ticket price increase was insignificant, trip went from about $5,400 to $5,495.

Heck it would be $4,000 if WDW parks were free.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

No dog in this fight, but, here is a simple calculation that is not "solving for "x" trying to make up a big number (or a small one):
Family of 4 who flies:

Air=$315 per person=$1260 (I don't know about you, but those days of $99 per person r/t are definitely over.)
Hotel=$165 per night (all in, taxes and fees included) for 7 nights = $1,155
Tickets = $350 per person = $1400
Meal Plan and any other food = $60 per person per day for 7 days = $1690

Total = $5495.

Every one of these line items can be shaved except tickets. But not by very much. If the airfare is on sale and you catch a $200 per person flight, and you stay at a hotel for $110 per night and you eat QS for every meal, you can get that down to $4090. So bottom line? A family that flies and stays for a week and stays on site is pretty much looking at $4K minimum

False.

Our last trip--less than $500 for 7 days in a condo.

We weren't planning to fly because it was cost prohibitive. But it ended up being moot since we moved to Florida. But gas would have been half your quote.

Meal plan is not obligatory, but we work at $100-$150 per DAY (typed wrong) IF we are planning a TS splurge. This is total per day, not per person.

And we travel with 6 people.

Not everyone opts to stay on site. It is an available option. But it is by no means mandatory and we need to stop pretending that it is. It is misleading in order to sway opinion. None of that changes that it is indeed variable.

ETA: we did spend >$2000 for seasonal and 2 regular APs. But even then, still come in well under $6K. We would have made ticketing plans differently to possibly be a 4 day pass otherwise keeping the budget the same. (Not checking on the site, but the money was finite so ticket media would have been matched to our budget to be within our means. So in a way--ticketing can be variable if you opt for less days.)

 

[cakebaker]

Really shows how the ticket price increase was insignificant, trip went from about $5,400 to $5,495.

Heck it would be $4,000 if WDW parks were free.

Exactly. It's not the increased cost of admittance that prices people out of a Disney vacation. And it's taken several pages of posts to get to that point. Disney is not an evil, heartless corporation denying low income people the right to go WDW.

 

[JimmyV]

Well... so is the requirement that Disney now be so affordable that someone on a $30,000 a year income should be able to stay on property for 10 days? That would be getting kind of absurd. I haven't been able to afford a 10-day vacation most of my life, and I make a decent living. So I picked the lowest offer that Disney is publicly putting out there, and it's really not that bad. If we were to go to the Dells for a vacation, we'd go for about 3 days. So it's not unreasonable to compare doing Disney for that long. Doesn't matter if people who can afford more tend to pay more and stay longer. If you can do a 3-night Disney stay for $909, that's pretty good and real-world affordable.

I agree completely. Lost in this discussion is the "proper" length of trip. People seem to be extrapolating their 8-10 vacations onto "the poor". I can't even begin to count the number of individual trips I've made to WDW. But I can tell you how many of those trips were longer than 7 nights. 0.

 

[JimmyV]

False.

Our last trip--less than $500 for 7 days in a condo.

We weren't planning to fly because it was cost prohibitive. But it ended up being moot since we moved to Florida. But gas would have been half your quote.

Meal plan is not obligatory, but we work at $100-$150 per person IF we are planning a TS splurge. This is total per day, not per person.

And we travel with 6 people.

Not everyone opts to stay on site. It is an available option. But it is by no means mandatory and we need to stop pretending that it is. It is misleading in order to sway opinion. None of that changes that it is indeed variable.

False?? There is nothing "false" in that math. Or did you miss fuzzylogic's follow up post that starts..."Yeah. I buy this". (See post #1677). Were you reading my post to suggest that one had to spend that amount? If so, you need to adjust your approach and continue on to post #1683. I was merely calculating what one would spend under the conditions stated. Of course conditions can change the outcome. Drive. Bunk with relatives. Stay for a shorter period of time. Pack PB&J sandwiches. Your accusation that my math is "false" is just silly. Anticipated apology accepted in advance.

 

[SmithSmith]

Absolutely. I never boarded a plane until my Junior year in college. We drove everywhere. But also, see my post above. A "poor" family affords a trip to WDW by not going every year. Or every other year. Or every third year. etc.

I understand what you're saying now.

A family who drives could spend $3000 a week at a value. If they wanted to spend even less money the could camp at Ft Wilderness. A 10 day trip for a family of 4 (who drives) would be around $2250, add in groceries and souvenirs, and a 10 day trip could be had for $2500.

Not that I'm advocating for someone to sleep in a tent for 10 days, that sounds awful, but then again I don't camp. I'm just laying this out there as a possibility.

 

[Laketravis]

Our last trip--less than $500 for 7 days in a condo.

We weren't planning to fly because it was cost prohibitive. But it ended up being moot since we moved to Florida. But gas would have been half your quote.

Meal plan is not obligatory, but we work at $100-$150 per person IF we are planning a TS splurge. This is total per day, not per person....

And I'm betting that was a really nice condo. We found one for $242 a week this coming June so we've booked it for two weeks ($484). We'll try driving this time ($220 fuel R/T from Austin at $2.50 a gallon and 25mpg).

That's $704 for lodging/transportation.

Add food, and the condo helps with that because it facilitates storage/prep. We've already got our AP's for both WDW and USO so we can amortize that cost.

Heck, I could show how it's cheaper for us to spend two weeks in Orlando than it is to stay at home if that were the goal.


.

 

[flicx]

Exactly. It's not the increased cost of admittance that prices people out of a Disney vacation. And it's taken several pages of posts to get to that point. Disney is not an evil, heartless corporation denying low income people the right to go WDW.

Give me a break. It sure does price me out. We are those 3 night people who scrimp and save to go. Now over the years since Disney revoked park hopping and no expiration and made them pay features that caused a significant increase in cost. Now no expiration is done forever. Thus now those of us who can afford Disney only in small doses are paying a lot more!

 

[Planogirl]

Universal was getting really run down before they started their building and over hauls. Plus they are some really awful employees. Dirty,Dirty tables chairs, bathroom etc.

Plus I have never hear a CM tell a guest f off before, or shut f up. which I have witnessed at other parks including universal.

The avg Disney vacation for family of 4 is around 4k. I would love to buy a new car for 8k.

I have never seen any park employee tell a guest to do that not even at the lowly Six Flags. I wouldn't put up with that anywhere, any time. I also don't believe that you will find any Universal employees that will do that and stay employed. The change in attitude there has been as incredible as the other changes in the parks.

Heck FP+ is even screwing with RD.

The early bird doesn't get as many worms with FP+ being in place.

That is one part of all of this that continues to puzzle me. It has always been a given at themeparks in general that getting to rope drop helps with touring. That seems to have changed drastically.

False.

Our last trip--less than $500 for 7 days in a condo.

We weren't planning to fly because it was cost prohibitive. But it ended up being moot since we moved to Florida. But gas would have been half your quote.

Meal plan is not obligatory, but we work at $100-$150 per DAY (typed wrong) IF we are planning a TS splurge. This is total per day, not per person.

And we travel with 6 people.

Not everyone opts to stay on site. It is an available option. But it is by no means mandatory and we need to stop pretending that it is. It is misleading in order to sway opinion. None of that changes that it is indeed variable.

ETA: we did spend >$2000 for seasonal and 2 regular APs. But even then, still come in well under $6K. We would have made ticketing plans differently to possibly be a 4 day pass otherwise keeping the budget the same. (Not checking on the site, but the money was finite so ticket media would have been matched to our budget to be within our means. So in a way--ticketing can be variable if you opt for less days.)

We are staying offsite in a few weeks and spending very little. It is definitely possible to spend way less than what many people see as normal. Passes continue to be our biggest expense and while an hourly breakdown as listed earlier sounds good, it is still expensive.

 

[BugsDaddy]

I understand what you're saying now.

A family who drives could spend $3000 a week at a value. If they wanted to spend even less money the could camp at Ft Wilderness. A 10 day trip for a family of 4 (who drives) would be around $2250, add in groceries and souvenirs, and a 10 day trip could be had for $2500.

Not that I'm advocating for someone to sleep in a tent for 10 days, that sounds awful, but then again I don't camp. I'm just laying this out there as a possibility.

I came from a lower middle class upbringing and if someone had offered the chance to go to Disneyworld for 10 days and sleep in a tent, I would have been all over that as a kid.

 

[JimmyV]

Thus now those of us who can afford Disney only in small doses are paying a lot more!

I don't know what to tell you. In July, 1972, we (my parents) paid $35 per night for a 3 night stay at the Contemporary, and around $8.50 per adult and $5.75 per child for "12 Adventure Ticket Books". And if I recall correctly, we supplemented those with additional "8 Adventure Ticket Books" because, darn it all, we were the "Original Park Commandos". A buffeteria dinner cost about $4 per person (and the food was barely edible). But we aren't ever going back to those days. But what I will say is that $35 for an on site hotel in 1972 dollars is more than what you would typically pay at Pop now, in today's dollars. I think.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Unfortunately, that is a tough argument to make with this crowd. When was the last time you read a post here about how someone just returned from a 3 day vacation? And compare that to the posts that say that they just returned from a 10 day vacation. It's a tough sell here that 3 days at WDW is a "real trip".

But we were discussing going to Disney at all.

At some point, people need to make responsible decisions about what they can truly afford. If nothing less than the best will do be it length of stay or hotel type, then that is a personal accountability issue.

One year, we could not vacation. We did 2 (maybe 3, I don't recall) nights in Virginia beach at an ocean front hotel over the 4th of July. How was this frugal? Well--we used hotel points, so the hotel was free. Now--free is awesome. If we could not have done free, we would have picked an entirely different place. We spent much less than $1000 for food, entertainment and incidentals.

 

[lauradis]

I don't know what to tell you. In July, 1972, we (my parents) paid $35 per night for a 3 night stay at the Contemporary, and around $8.50 per adult and $5.75 per child for "12 Adventure Ticket Books". And if I recall correctly, we supplemented those with additional "8 Adventure Ticket Books" because, darn it all, we were the "Original Park Commandos". A buffeteria dinner cost about $4 per person (and the food was barely edible). But we aren't ever going back to those days. But what I will say is that $35 for an on site hotel in 1972 dollars is more than what you would typically pay at Pop now, in today's dollars. I think.

The avg income in 1972 according to the us cen was $8,424.
2012 was $49,486

so Disney price should be 5.87 times higher today?

 

[SmithSmith]

I don't know what to tell you. In July, 1972, we (my parents) paid $35 per night for a 3 night stay at the Contemporary, and around $8.50 per adult and $5.75 per child for "12 Adventure Ticket Books". And if I recall correctly, we supplemented those with additional "8 Adventure Ticket Books" because, darn it all, we were the "Original Park Commandos". A buffeteria dinner cost about $4 per person (and the food was barely edible). But we aren't ever going back to those days. But what I will say is that $35 for an on site hotel in 1972 dollars is more than what you would typically pay at Pop now, in today's dollars. I think.

$35 in '72 is $195 today.

 

[Laketravis]

You'd think that if Disney wanted to penetrate a large width of the economic spectrum, they'd offer onsite accomodations ranging from tents to motels to midrange to deluxe.

Oh, wait...........


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