LOVE or HATE FP+ Anyone's mind been changed ??

[SmithSmith]

OK. I will concede that point. FP+ is great for the person who buys a one day park hopper pass at $165. I'm glad that this sliver of the population is well cared for now.

But what seems to be evolving here is that people are crowing about the benefits of FP+ if one:

Rope Drops --> Park Hops --> Uses FPs.

Is that the norm? Is creating an awesome day for people who do this worth the side effects to people who do not spend the extra money for hoppers? Or who prefer to stick to one park per day? People are making a good case for one type of touring and then suggesting that FP+ is "better" generally.

The person that spends one unique day at the parks by using a one day PH may not be a popular idea, but the local AP holder that spends one unique day at the parks is DEFINITELY a popular idea.

 

[dayvewc]

OK. I will concede that point. FP+ is great for the person who buys a one day park hopper pass at $165. I'm glad that this sliver of the population is well cared for now.

But what seems to be evolving here is that people are crowing about the benefits of FP+ if one:

Rope Drops --> Park Hops --> Uses FPs.

Is that the norm? Is creating an awesome day for people who do this worth the side effects to people who do not spend the extra money for hoppers? Or who prefer to stick to one park per day? People are making a good case for one type of touring and then suggesting that FP+ is "better" generally.

From my reading, people are making the case that FP+ is better for them and their touring style than FP- was.

As opposed to people who are saying that FP- is better under any situation, since it can replicate what the FP+ user is doing AND lets them ride both ToT and TSMM, or Soarin'/TT, or SDMT 8 times in a day (yeah, exaggeration on purpose).

Was it the norm to create an awesome day for the one group and ignore the other? Seems to have been that way since FP was introduced. Those who know do better, those who know and plan do best. Same results, just different styles benefit now than before.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

OK. I will concede that point. FP+ is great for the person who buys a one day park hopper pass at $165. I'm glad that this sliver of the population is well cared for now.

But what seems to be evolving here is that people are crowing about the benefits of FP+ if one:

Rope Drops --> Park Hops --> Uses FPs.

Is that the norm? Is creating an awesome day for people who do this worth the side effects to people who do not spend the extra money for hoppers? Or who prefer to stick to one park per day. People are making a good case for one type of touring and then suggesting that FP+ is "better" generally.

Those of us with APs also do similar.

But arguing the cost of it is a tangential discussion that neither proves or disproves any thesis for or against FP+.

The scenario presented was 2 parks in one day. How the guest is able to do that is irrelevant.

What canNOT be argued is that an itinerary can be better planned allowing for minimal waits on popular rides at the second park removing all variables that would limit availability of paper fast passes.

This may not work for everybody, but it was certainly difficult to GUARANTEE that the same could be said for paper FP especially of the second park has an ADR tossed into the mix.

Cannot guarantee is not the same as saying it can't be done. The key is you cannot predict at all with 100% certainty that you will be able to hit 3 popular rides with minimal wait. That isn't to say that luck wouldn't be on your side for the old method.

 

[MrInfinity]

Thanks. I think you have distilled it. So FP+ really shines when one buys the more expensive hopping option and bounces around from park to park. I'm just not convinced that this has become the norm. I don't know for sure, but I still think one-park-per-day is still the most used approach. And under that approach, there is a "day two" at a tiered park that has to be contended with.

I don't hop, ever. And it works great for me. You still have yet to make good on your offer to detail how you replicate my ultimate-princess day, via FP-, in even a single park. I'll show you day 2 when you finish the discussion about day 1. You won't be able to beat it, either. But at this point your point is moot, because you said you could replicate ANY day with FP-, and you have yet to do that for even one of the several that have been posed to you.

JimmyV: Tell me what rides you got them for and for what times, and I could replicate that with FP- every time

JimmyV: I am saying that I could replicate your "awesome" day, quite easily in fact

You said this last bit directly to me, about the day I detailed. But you never followed this up with how or if you were just kidding.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Thanks. I think you have distilled it. So FP+ really shines when one buys the more expensive hopping option and bounces around from park to park. I'm just not convinced that this has become the norm. I don't know for sure, but I still think one-park-per-day is still the most used approach. And under that approach, there is a "day two" at a tiered park that has to be contended with. FP+ wins the day when hopping around. FP- wins the day when spending a whole day in a tiered park (assuming that one wants to ride all the rides that build up 70+ minute waits).

It may or may not be the norm. But there are a couple to posters using that very technique to do both WDW and USO.

Never mind that my family did do the park hop scenario on our Decemebr vacation. Day two is irrelevant, btw!

 

[cakebaker]

I'm confused too, because in her example, she had a FP for 7DMT. So that would preclude here from having FPs at Epcot. And if she had FPs for Epcot, she could have simply ridden 7DMT standby, thus negating the need for the FP whose time has passed. So, yes, this is too confusing.

No, it's not confusing at all. You said "Tell me what rides you got them for and for what times, and I could replicate that with FP- every time"

So replicate this:

I want a TOT FP for after 6
I want a Soarin' FP for after 6
And yeah, while you're at it, I'd like a SDMT for after 6- heck, make that one after 2.

 

[SmithSmith]

Rope Drops --> Park Hops --> Uses FPs.

Is that the norm? Is creating an awesome day for people who do this worth the side effects to people who do not spend the extra money for hoppers? Or who prefer to stick to one park per day? People are making a good case for one type of touring and then suggesting that FP+ is "better" generally.

One does not have to park hop. You could easily do this by RDing MK, break at hotel for the afternoon, and then go back to MK for nighttime fun with FP in hand. Really the issue is people are taking a midday break when crowds and temperatures are at their worst.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

No, it's not confusing at all. You said "Tell me what rides you got them for and for what times, and I could replicate that with FP- every time"

So replicate this:

I want a TOT FP for after 6
I want a Soarin' FP for after 6
And yeah, while you're at it, I'd like a SDMT for after 6- heck, make that one after 2.

Clearly not on the same day.

 

[JimmyV]

What canNOT be argued is that an itinerary can be better planned allowing for minimal waits on popular rides at the second park removing all variables that would limit availability of paper fast passes.

I agree. I think that it is irrefutable that one fares better in park #2 under FP+. So has all of this just become about hopping? If a FP+ person spends only the afternoon in Epcot with FPs all lined up, they do OK. They get a FP for Soarin' and a 90 minute wait for TT. The FP- person who hops to Epcot probably gets a 90 minute wait at both. But the FP+ person who shows up at Epcot at 10:00 gets a FP for one and a 90 minute wait for the other, and the FP- person gets a FP for both. Different touring styles. Different results. It is hard to make the point that FP+ is superior. It is superior under certain conditions.

 

[cakebaker]

Thanks. I think you have distilled it. So FP+ really shines when one buys the more expensive hopping option and bounces around from park to park. I'm just not convinced that this has become the norm. I don't know for sure, but I still think one-park-per-day is still the most used approach. And under that approach, there is a "day two" at a tiered park that has to be contended with. FP+ wins the day when hopping around. FP- wins the day when spending a whole day in a tiered park (assuming that one wants to ride all the rides that build up 70+ minute waits).

So you're saying now that we're prevented from buying and using the park hopper option under paper fp in order to tour effectively? Yet another restriction.

We don't bounce around from park to park. We go to a morning park, take an afternoon break and head to another park. That, while I can't tell you how common it is in the world, is extremely popular here on the Dis. Have you ever read a thread where someone asks if they should buy parkhoppers? The response is almost always overwhelmingly yes.

 

[cakebaker]

Clearly not on the same day.

You don't know that- I am super hopper! I can do anything!

 

[JimmyV]

One does not have to park hop. You could easily do this by RDing MK

I've said it a thousand time. RD is the antidote to the limitations of FP+. When one Rope Drops, this entire discussion becomes irrelevant. But in order to ride both TT and Soarin' with minimal wait with FP+, one must RD. With FP-, it was possible to get FPs for both without being there at Rope Drop.

 

[JimmyV]

I don't hop, ever.

OK. Now I'm completely lost. There are a bunch of people here telling me that the scenarios posited all derived from posters talking about hopping. But now you are saying that you don't.

 

[erc]

I've said it a thousand time. RD is the antidote to the limitations of FP+. When one Rope Drops, this entire discussion becomes irrelevant. But in order to ride both TT and Soarin' with minimal wait with FP+, one must RD. With FP-, it was possible to get FPs for both without being there at Rope Drop.

Are you saying that the only problem you have with FP+ is the tiered parks?

 

[JimmyV]

8-9 BBB for my DD. Take the boys on something else, probly SDMT (once) or Space Mtn (two or three times).

All done at RD with no FPs needed.

9-10 ride things around Fantasyland in our morning time. Maybe ETWB and Ariel, but play it by ear.

Still don't need a FP. So far, our days are the same.

10-11:30, CRT breakfast
11:30 SDMT

I use FP that I obtained around 8:00. I was in the Tomorrowland/Fantasyland area anyway.

12:30 A&E

I do this later in the day with a FP that I obtained around 10:00. (but in reality, I would have gotten this one first, and 7DMY second)

1:30 Peter Pan
Do things like Small World and Teacups in between these as time permits
(After this day, we will be in princess overload!)

I would have done this earlier in the day without a FP. (See: "9:00-10:00 ride things around Fantasyland in our morning time.)
So I've done everything that you did and still have used only 2 FPs.

 

[Hokie2000]

But....we did all these things under FP- too. I have spreadsheets (that drove my wife nuts) that had our days planned out but also had "change on the fly" contingencies. These contingencies included things like "Get FP for Splash Mountain with later return time if temperatures are too cold in the morning". It was always possible to do this. Now, on a crowded day, maybe not. If you are locked in at 10:00 a.m., you may have no ability to get a FP for 3:00. Under FP-, you could. Yes, that might involve a "runner" to go to that area of the park to get the FP at noon. Or perhaps not. Either way, it was not a huge inconvenience in exchange for getting a FP exactly when you wanted one.

Let's not assume that FP+ allows for advance planning that is somehow unique or revolutionary. Planning has always existed. FP+ has done nothing to change planning as it relates to anything other than 3 rides a day. All other planning remains the same as it has always been. You can lock in your FP for Soarin' at 10:30 a.m.. I knew pretty much how to get one with a 10:30-11:30 return time each and every time. Is FP+ easier in that regard? Unquestionably. But "easier" doesn't mean "additional planning options". The planning options are the same. The implementation is simply different. You lock in your 3 FPs 60 days in advance. Tell me what rides you got them for and for what times, and I could replicate that with FP- every time.

Jimmy, you specifically asked the PP for the rides and times that they had FP+ for, then stated that you could replicate it with FP- every time. When presented with a scenario that could not be replicated with FP-, you say that the times don't matter. Wut??? It's ok to be wrong, especially when making absolute statements!

Picking specific times for three attractions at once is one huge thing that differentiates FP+ from FP- and is one of main positives (for me anyway, I'll speak for myself only). So no, FP- would not equate to the same experience for me. If I could go back in time, I'm sure I could have used FP- better, especially for stay in one park days, but A) I can't - no flux capacitor, B) Why would I want to since the system currently in place works better for me anyway, and C) I never really complained about FP-; I liked it at the time but now I like FP+ better.

 

[JimmyV]

Are you saying that the only problem you have with FP+ is the tiered parks?

Yes. FP+ at MK and AK works just fine. Except for the built in limit of 3 and the reports that more are hard to come by on crowded days. I never got fewer than 4 or 5 on even the most crowded day, but again, I accept that this is a numbers issue.

 

[dayvewc]

I've said it a thousand time. RD is the antidote to the limitations of FP+. When one Rope Drops, this entire discussion becomes irrelevant. But in order to ride both TT and Soarin' with minimal wait with FP+, one must RD. With FP-, it was possible to get FPs for both without being there at Rope Drop.

But RD has always been the antidote to riding lots of rides. Or doing lots of things. It is not a sudden change just because of FP+.

And yes, depending on what time you showed up at EPCOT, you might be able to get FP- for both Soarin' and TT. But were you guaranteed that they wouldn't conflict with your ADR that evening? If you showed up afternoon, were you always guaranteed to get them both? By the time you arrive at 2 pm after having slept in from the 2 am MK closing the night before, you pull a FP- for Soarin' (to ride at 7:30 pm) and by 4 pm all the FP- for TT are gone or are during Illuminations.

 

[erc]

I use FP that I obtained around 8:00. I was in the Tomorrowland/Fantasyland area anyway. .

Except you notice that the return time for 7DMT coincides with your CRT breakfast. Now you have to figure out what to do.

 

[JimmyV]

Jimmy, you specifically asked the PP for the rides and times that they had FP+ for, then stated that you could replicate it with FP- every time.

If you read my statement to mean that I would replicate the times as well as the rides, I apologize. That is not what I meant. I thought that I cleared that up in subsequent posts by saying "maybe not at the exact times." Replicating the times seems rather pointless. The goal here is "what can one accomplish in a day". Not, "what can one accomplish at 9:47".