LOVE or HATE FP+ Anyone's mind been changed ??

[wisblue]

But how ? I would seriously like to know this, how was the old paper FP system, pull them when and where they are available for whatever time is available, if you got one for later in the day you could still pull others all day. How was that more restrictive than booking 60 days in advance without knowing the conditions on the ground, or if you change your mind day of having to chose from what people have picked over for 60 days already, and being locked in to those 3 until you use all 3 ?

This is an honest question, I am not doubting your feelings, people can feel trapped in a very large room with open doors, just wondering why (if you can express it) you felt this way ?

cakebaker can answer for herself, but for me the answer is that making maximum use of paper FP required being in the same park for much of the day. You refer to pulling one for later in the day and pulling others all day, but that has no value if you aren't planning on being in the park all day. As I said in my response to Jimmy V, if you wanted to take a break from a crowded and/or hot park in the middle of the afternoon, you wouldn't be in a position to use FP's available late in the morning or to pull them for use later. And, the more crowded the park, the less flexible paper FP became. For those of us who usually have to visit at Easter or Christmas, paper FP was never very flexible.

This is the other side of the question that I have about how people can feel like FP+ makes them feel like they have their whole day scheduled to the minute. When I make those FP+ reservations for later in the day, it frees up the rest of the day to do something else. This thread provides a lot of examples of what people might choose to do with that time.

 

[MrInfinity]

It's interesting to see Wis' and Cake's plans, cuz they're nothing like mine. Just shows how FP+ can benefit people in completely different ways!

Tell me what rides you got them for and for what times, and I could replicate that with FP- every time.

Ok, go for it. One day I've thought out so far is a Saturday, a "9".
My tentative plan is...

8-9 BBB for my DD. Take the boys on something else, probly SDMT (once) or Space Mtn (two or three times).
9-10 ride things around Fantasyland in our morning time. Maybe ETWB and Ariel, but play it by ear.
10-11:30, CRT breakfast
11:30 SDMT
12:30 A&E
1:30 Peter Pan
Do things like Small World and Teacups in between these as time permits
(After this day, we will be in princess overload!)

Once done w Peter Pan, I'd hit up a local kiosk and see what's available. I'm sure based on past experience, I'll find something. We'll go w the flow here, and do some combination of HM, BTMRR, Pirates, Jungle, or whatever else I happen to find that works us back toward the front of the park. We'll probly hit up the Tiki room in here too, and maybe catch the parade while wandering thru Frontierland.

By 4pm we'd be looking to leave the park, boating back to the Poly for an 'Ohana dinner.
After that, we'd probly not return to the park. If we do at all, it would be while the kids are asleep w a babysitter and adults going back from midnight till 2am or something. Maybe we'd challenge ourselves to ride all 3 coasters after midnight... but... this will probly get axed in favor of drinking Captains Mai Tais on our deck.

I could probly replicate this with FP-, but it would not be quite as good. And would be much less predicatble. I'd be interested to see how you'd replicate this with FP- to get in all that stuff on a 9-day. Do you really think you could get FP-'s to SDMT, A&E, PP, plus ride Small World and the Teacups, between 11:30 and 2 on a 9-day? I'm guessing you'd get ONE FP- to SDMT, A&E, or PP during this time, and any others to these 3 attractions would be for post-4pm, when we won't even be there.

 

[cakebaker]

But how ? I would seriously like to know this, how was the old paper FP system, pull them when and where they are available for whatever time is available, if you got one for later in the day you could still pull others all day. How was that more restrictive than booking 60 days in advance without knowing the conditions on the ground, or if you change your mind day of having to chose from what people have picked over for 60 days already, and being locked in to those 3 until you use all 3 ?

This is an honest question, I am not doubting your feelings, people can feel trapped in a very large room with open doors, just wondering why (if you can express it) you felt this way ?

And this is the problem- I accept your decision that you can't make FP+ work for you. Even though I think there are things you can do to mitigate some of the issues you have, you don't want to and that's fine. It doesn't work, you can't make it work. It's ok with me and I won't try and convince you that it does.Those who don't like it seem to want to convince me that for some reason, I shouldn't. That I'm somehow wrong or that I feel trapped when there's no reason to feel that way- it's all in my head.

But here's just one example of the issues with paper fp_

Can you tell me how it is I would pull a paper fp for TOT, Soarin, TSM, RRC after 4 pm in those parks? Because that's when I want to be there. That's what I want my schedule to be- Under paper fp it could not be done at the time of year we had to go.

With paper fp, I was locked in to whatever time the machine wanted to spit out. If I didn't get there soon enough, the time was later than I wanted to stay in that park. A time I can't use is as bad as no time at all. Paper fp locked me into a park. I want the freedom to go to the parks when I want to go. That's what FP+ does.

 

[disney08]

we just returned from Feb vacation week...I did my homework (lots of it) and booked all our FP+.
I loved/hated it.
Loved it because you knew you could get on some rides with virtually no wait. I hate it because if you decide on Wednesday that you would rather go to a different park the following day then where you have your FP, you have to cancel what you have, and try to get new ones...and I will say at that point there are none left.
This happened a couple of times. In the past flip flopping a park for another was not a big deal. Now you are locked in.
I also feel like the lines are even longer for stand by because you have accomodate so many FP people.
We stood in lines less, but definitely did less rides.
My best advice is be at rope drop, go on 2-3 of the bigger rides early (we did EM whenever we could in the morning). Make your FP for about 30 min after regular opening hour and then call it a day (or morning).
This means that you have NO FP for night time parks (we do 2 a day). But it worked ok for us as we were more relaxed at night after running with the herd in the morning anyway.

 

[disney08]

Oh...one more tip...the MDX app on the phone is SLLLLLOOOWWW.
But if you just pull up the website on your phones browser, works way faster with all the same options.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

But how ? I would seriously like to know this, how was the old paper FP system, pull them when and where they are available for whatever time is available, if you got one for later in the day you could still pull others all day. How was that more restrictive than booking 60 days in advance without knowing the conditions on the ground, or if you change your mind day of having to chose from what people have picked over for 60 days already, and being locked in to those 3 until you use all 3 ?

This is an honest question, I am not doubting your feelings, people can feel trapped in a very large room with open doors, just wondering why (if you can express it) you felt this way ?

I cannot speak for Cake....

But in the old system, there were built in road blocks to pulling passes all day as you put it. At a minimum, the window OR 2 hours had to have elapsed before pulling the next one. Times were random in that you had zero control over the times--you got the next slot and that was it.

Personally, I don't need to "know the conditions on the ground" to know what *I* will likely want to do. We have lived in Florida for many many years--short of a hurricane, I am not phased by the possibility of a wash out. And if one occurs, I roll with it.

And I have not ever been locked into any FP be it paper or plus. I am honestly confused at such claims. You can "feel" trapped in the present system, but it does not actually make you trapped.

We have changed FP on the fly and we have let them go. Much like in the paper system.

And if one feels this system is more restrictive, then that is how they feel. But it would be nice that they recognize that folks felt that way about the paper system as well--especially if they wanted to pull one, but it was already out or for times that would not work.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I don't think Jimmy could do what you are planning with Paper FPs during anything above low crowds, unless, as you say, they hung around the park all day to grabbed those paper FPs just at the right time.

But what you are pointing to isn't flexibility, its the exact opposite. You are pointing to the rigidity of the system as an advantage. You are locked in to those times/attractions. No one else can take those slots, unless you release them.

What happens for you for instance if its going to poor rain later in the day and you are expecting your attractions to be closed (or don't want to brave the rain), or if in the morning you decide you don't want to do those attractions in the evening, but would rather do them around lunch or in the morning ? Of if someone starts feeling ill later in the day and you miss them and the next morning they decide they want to do them still ? You and I both know that you likely wont be able to FP those if the crowds are moderate or above. The system is not flexible. That you can move your day around a fixed inflexible point doesn't make the system flexible.

Though I happily admit that FP+ in some ways certainly works better than FP- during busier season (which is only about 1/3rd of the year), its not because of its flexibility, its the inflexibility in the system that people CAN use to an advantage.

If I had park hoppers, I would plan around the weather if it was a true wash out.

If we were sick, the system in place would not matter. We have gotten sick at Disney. Nothing could have saved it.

But it is curious that what someone claims as flexible, you are trying to prove as inflexible.

I don't understand that.

 

[erc]

Loved it because you knew you could get on some rides with virtually no wait. I hate it because if you decide on Wednesday that you would rather go to a different park the following day then where you have your FP, you have to cancel what you have, and try to get new ones...and I will say at that point there are none left.

I helped my MIL book 3 FP for herself and her friend when they decided to go to Epcot just the night before last week. All of the rides were available even just booking the night before. I'm not sure how that would have worked with MK or if there were more than 2 in her group.

 

[JimmyV]

I'm glad to hear you actually acknowledge that FP+ doesn't really change much at all.

I agree with this. It doesn't change much at all, in terms of one's ability to plan. But what it does change is my wait time at non-headliner attractions; changes my ability to get repeat FPs for headliners; and changes my ability to get FPs for all the rides of my choosing outside of the construct of tiers. So what it boils down to is that the "positives" of FP+ could have easily been replicated by good planning under FP-, and the negatives of FP+ are impossible to shake off. We all just now have to adjust to those changes with no ability to work around them.

This entire debate is now silly. The pros and cons have been laid out and placed on the balance scale. Some people prefer to lock in a FP time of 2:00 p.m. for Test Track 60 days in advance with the click of a mouse and find that this is a great benefit to them as they:

• know that they will be able to get on the ride...weather permitting, (which they cannot predict 60 days in advance);
• know that FPs will not run out;
• know that they will not need a "runner";

The people who value the above also understand that with these benefits come the side effects of:

• having to wait in a long line for Soarin' (unless they get to the park for RD);
• not being able to get a second FP for Test Track
• not being able to get a FP earlier in the day if it appears that their plans are changing;
• having to wait in longer lines at other attractions.

These are the trade-offs that people make. There is nothing "wrong" or irrational in people favoring the "positives" listed above over the negatives.

Other people find little value in the benefits of FP+ because with FP- they could have:

• gotten a FP for Test Track with a return time of 2:00 p.m. by walking over to a machine at around 10:30;
• knew that when they woke up that morning, all FPs were available to them and that nothing was off limits;
• knew that if the weather was not cooperating, they could skip Test Track and gotten a FP for Soarin' instead;
• could have gotten a FP for Soarin' in addition to the one they got for Test Track.

And these people understood that with these benefits came the side effects of:

• perhaps needing a runner to get their FPs;
• perhaps getting a return time that varied by 10 or 15 minutes off of their predicted return time;
• having to be in the park before noon to get their FPs.

There is nothing in any of that that makes such people "wrong" or irrational for favoring these positives over these negatives.

So let's stop pretending that FP+ is some miraculous technological advancement beyond that which it is, which is an electronic way of doing what one used to do on foot. My days at WDW haven't really changed all that much except that I have to use RD now as a mandatory touring strategy at tiered parks. Beyond that one change, I am not getting anything more out of FP+ that I didn't get out of FP-. And FP- did give me things that I now cannot get out of FP+. But I recognize that this latter point is one of usage numbers. I got more because others got less. Such is life. If your department awards performance bonuses out of a collective pool of money, every dollar that you get is because someone else didn't get it. Personally, I have no remorse for the people under FP- who didn't "get", and, as a result, allowed me to achieve more.

 

[jade1]

dup

 

[dayvewc]

I cannot speak for Cake....

But in the old system, there were built in road blocks to pulling passes all day as you put it. At a minimum, the window OR 2 hours had to have elapsed before pulling the next one. Times were random in that you had zero control over the times--you got the next slot and that was it.

Personally, I don't need to "know the conditions on the ground" to know what *I* will likely want to do. We have lived in Florida for many many years--short of a hurricane, I am not phased by the possibility of a wash out. And if one occurs, I roll with it.

And I have not ever been locked into any FP be it paper or plus. I am honestly confused at such claims. You can "feel" trapped in the present system, but it does not actually make you trapped.

We have changed FP on the fly and we have let them go. Much like in the paper system.

And if one feels this system is more restrictive, then that is how they feel. But it would be nice that they recognize that folks felt that way about the paper system as well--especially if they wanted to pull one, but it was already out or for times that would not work.

I think this says it pretty much perfectly. Yes, you could under FP- "pull them all day long" given the restrictions of the system (window or 2 hours, take the time given or not). BUT, if I know of an upcoming conflict (want to watch a parade, have ADR, etc.) I felt "forced" (inflexible) to get there as early as possible to get in the rides I know I want to do before the lines build or the times are too far away (so no planning for park hopping) OR if I don't get there early enough, I was "forced" again (still inflexible) to "hang around" the dispensing machines until a workable time appeared. In the first case, why bother with FP in any form, since I'm pretty much talking rope drop and low crowds, and in the 2nd case, I'm "losing" park time by literally waiting to wait in a virtual line. That to me is a direct waste of money that I've worked and saved to be able to take my trip.

Do I think that FP+ is the answer to all park touring plans, brought from on-high with angelic praise? No, it still has problems. BUT FOR ME, and I can't speak to anyone else, the problems I face under FP+ are not as off-putting as the ones I dealt with under FP-. But I am sure that is more due to my personal touring preference and ride strategy being different than others.

 

[JimmyV]

If paper FP were still in place, I seriously doubt that you could have found FPs for each of these things at those times unless you were very lucky.

Your entire premise is flawed. It assumes that there is an exact "right" time to get a FP for these attractions and still make your ADR. If you don't think that I could have gotten FPs for A&E, 7DMT and Space Mountain all in the same day, and still made my ADR, then you don't know me at all. Would I have gotten the exact same times as you? I have no idea. But it doesn't matter. I would have enjoyed the same things as you. Is the order relevant? Not to me. And again, as I point out above, your ability to plan with military precision comes with a cost. It all boils down to:
Pick One:

• 3 FPs at the MK at times certain knowing that you cannot get FPs for both Soarin' and Test Track; or
• 3 FPs at the MK for the same three rides but at less certain times, knowing that you can get FPs for both Soarin'a and Test Track tomorrow.

You pick the former. I pick the latter. It's opinion.

 

[YesMickey]

Quick question. How do you do just one fast pass at a time? I did it last night for our trip this weekend and when selecting only one ride three fast passes come up. I don't want to do all three. Just the ones I want. Any help will be appreciated.

 

[JimmyV]

I could probly replicate this with FP-, but it would not be quite as good. And would be much less predicatble.

I am with you 100%. Not quite as good, and less predictable. But on the next day, I would be able to get FPs for TSMM, RnR and ToT all in the same day. Or both Test Track and Soarin'. That is what I gain by suffering through a less predictable day at the MK. It is a trade I would take every time.

 

[JimmyV]

I hate it because if you decide on Wednesday that you would rather go to a different park the following day then where you have your FP, you have to cancel what you have, and try to get new ones...and I will say at that point there are none left.

It's amazing how a system that is so "flexible" can turn on you so quickly!

 

[cakebaker]

disney08 said: ↑
I hate it because if you decide on Wednesday that you would rather go to a different park the following day then where you have your FP, you have to cancel what you have, and try to get new ones...and I will say at that point there are none left.

"It's amazing how a system that is so "flexible" can turn on you so quickly!"

Except for that bolded section is hyperbole. These days, a day in advance leaves you lots of options and they are far from having none left.

 

[erc]

These days, a day in advance leaves you lots of options and they are far from none being left.

Which I provided a clear example for if they had read it. When my MIL decided to go to Epcot I was actually telling her that there may not be any FP available, so I was surprised to see so many, and this was a level 8 day for Epcot. It almost seems like they leave an allotment of FP for visitors who cannot plan 60 days out.

 

[JimmyV]

These days, a day in advance leaves you lots of options and they are far from none being left.

"None", as in, "not a single one for any ride whatsoever"? I agree with you. That would not be the case.
"None" as in, "we decided to go to DHS at the last minute and there were none for TSMM"? Then I agree with disney08.

 

[MrInfinity]

I am with you 100%. Not quite as good, and less predictable. But on the next day, I would be able to get FPs for TSMM, RnR and ToT all in the same day. Or both Test Track and Soarin'. That is what I gain by suffering through a less predictable day at the MK. It is a trade I would take every time.

So then I take it you retract your statement that... "Tell me what rides you got them for and for what times, and I could replicate that with FP- every time."?

I told you what rides I got them for and what times, and I built a pretty awesome day. I do not think you could replicate that under FP-. If I read your response correctly, you are basically giving the nod that "yeah, you've actually got a pretty cool day there... it's possible because of FP+ and some other good strategies, and I really could not replicate that under FP-... but what I can do is change the subject to an Epcot day and challenge you to post a day there..." Is that it? Cuz I could go there. Our next day is Epcot

 

[Laketravis]

Tomorrow is a "2" per EasyWDW. I just pulled up FP's for HS for a party of three and was surprised to see that "FastPass+ Distribution Has Ended for Selected Day" for both TSMM and ToT.


.