Lots of service dogs this trip

[wilkeliza]

Didn't read thru the thread, assume you've been taken to task for how your comments read even if not intended, so I'll let it go

The issue here is, as their pattern, WDW selectively chooses which of their self-imposed rules to enforce.

Akin to most issues of this sort (GAC, FP, etc), it will get out of hand and they will eventually change things, but only when it impacts their operations.

All for bona-fide service animals, but on airplanes I've seen some odd animals on other passenger's laps.

I am highly allergic to dogs with fur, the reason mine has hair. On planes, I have elected to move my seat when one is seated nearby me, even though i was seated first/paid for my seat selection. My understanding is only so many animals permitted per flight. would hate to think of somebody with an official service animal not being able to fly if 'designer' ones are aboard.

@ WDW I don't want to think about being placed in a resort room that housed a dog that didn't receive a very deep cleaning.

Service dogs and emotional support animals don't max out that number. The top out number is for paid animals. I only know because our 2 pups will take 50% of paid slots when we fly with them.

 

[NYDisGuy]

Actually Canada has a system where the trainers are certified by the government, and I believe, the dogs are registered through the government. The trainers are listed as being certified by the government, and only dogs trained by those trainers are "service" dogs. Probably wouldn't happen in this country, but there are systems in other countries that could possibly work.

I'm fine with alternative solutions, but I don't see how Disney or Joe's Supermarket can verify this without having a master list of trainers. And again, if we are talking about fakers then it would be easy for them to falsify a trainer on their documents just like it is to print "Service Dog" on certificates and vests so we go back to the same issue we are talking about now. This is the same reason why ECV's are/were a hot button topic when abuse threads popped up on these forums, because all the hand wringing usually boils down to prove your disability or we will automatically assume it's your house pet.

 

[AngiTN]

I'm fine with alternative solutions, but I don't see how Disney or Joe's Supermarket can verify this without having a master list of trainers. And again, if we are talking about fakers then it would be easy for them to falsify a trainer on their documents just like it is to print "Service Dog" on certificates and vests so we go back to the same issue we are talking about now. This is the same reason why ECV's are/were a hot button topic when abuse threads popped up on these forums, because all the hand wringing usually boils down to prove your disability or we will automatically assume it's your house pet.

No but the harder it is to get valid certificates the fewer fakes there will be. And the harder it is, the more expensive it will be
Right now it's too easy.
You will always have some that will do whatever it takes but you won't have as many as there are now

 

[NYDisGuy]

Actually Canada has a system where the trainers are certified by the government, and I believe, the dogs are registered through the government. The trainers are listed as being certified by the government, and only dogs trained by those trainers are "service" dogs. Probably wouldn't happen in this country, but there are systems in other countries that could possibly work.

And I'm looking but I don't see anything about the Canadian government getting involved with service dogs, it looks like it's the same third party verification system that the US has unless im missing it. Cf4aass even says that there's no national accreditation for service dog trainers

 

[HopperFan]

School districts in our area actually have procedures in place to allow for service animals. Usually it involves a specific need, discussion with doctors and therapists as to what that need is, boundaries of what the animal is needed for, and ensuring the animal is trained in a manner so it is not a safety threat or distraction to other students. There's a lot of back and forth and discussions.

Every school district should. But having gone through a couple school districts with a special needs child for almost 20 years ... sadly the rise in parent demands, threats of lawsuits etc have weakened school districts fortitude. I can absolutely see a parent demanding an ES dog stay with their child.

 

[danikoski]

And I'm looking but I don't see anything about the Canadian government getting involved with service dogs, it looks like it's the same third party verification system that the US has unless im missing it. Cf4aass even says that there's no national accreditation for service dog trainers

Each province right now has laws. Canada's govt is working to standardize their laws to provincial laws. Most provinces have specific trainers that are regulated by the government. You are right, it isn't national yet, but they are apparently moving in that direction.

And, interestingly, the way that happened is by legitimate trainers and people with service dogs speaking out and pushing for stricter regulations.

 

[bumbershoot]

the only type of dog that Disney has to allow into the parks and resorts are service dogs, right?

Right.

But, the real issue is that Disney does not ask the two necessary questions to confirm that the dog is indeed a service dog?

Who knows?

From what I've read there has never been a successful lawsuit against a business who has kept an esa animal out, or who has righteously kicked out a service dog who is behaving badly. But businesses are still scared.

Relative 2: You know, you can just go online and have your dog certified as a service animal. And, then you can bring him everywhere.

I would have to step in. One, there no certification needed. And two, seriously? And we could chat about honesty.

I try not to judge but it is people that fake having a disability that make it harder for people like dh and I to get the help we need

How do you feel it's making it harder for you?

But honestly it doesn't matter because there is no ADA approved certification of these animals. Therefore even if Disney asks the questions the guest can lie, which they will do, and there is no proof Disney can even ask for.

This problem will have to be resolved at the ADA level and it will take lots of businesses ... theme parks, restaurants, rental companies, hotels etc .... to complain and demand for regulation and licensing put into place. Doing this will insure the trained animals are allowed, and the untrained animals are left home.

Yep.

And...if the ada wants to go forth, that's their business. As a so-far able-bodied person I have no interest in putting roadblocks in the way of someone who needs a service animal. And I don't think that any of us like me get to have a say in it. If people want to put financial roadblocks in their own way, ok. But I'm not going to wish for it.

You have a better than average chance of not even seeing a service dog. In 12 trips to WDW and 5 Disney cruises, I've seen 2 service dogs

I think I've seen one at Disney. Maybe.

 

[kelliejason]

I'll only say that legit owners of service animals suffer from the stigma that they may or may not have a real reason to have their animal with them at all times. In College, my SIL trained puppies for the first year of it's life for Soldiers that needed them through a valid service animal group. My friends mother has a freaking mini Yorkie that she purchased the fake tag & vest for so she could take it with her wherever she goes (she has absolutely no need for it, other than a fashion accessory). The questions that my SIL got questioning the legitimacy of her dog all came from the fact that there are so many people that just want to take their pet with them.

 

[JerseyJanice]

@bumbershoot I'm not tinkerbellandeeyor, but I think she is saying that when people who aren't disabled pretend to be, or they exaggerate their issues, it contributes to disabled people like herself and her husband not getting help when they need it.

I don't know if you're looking for her to cite a specific example of when she's been been denied help, but if so, she will have to answer herself.

 

[disneyvoice]

We have good friends whose son has extremely severe autism and many other challenges. He has a legitimate service dog for which they had to bend over backwards to raise a LOT of money to get him. Their little guy can't get through the day with the assistance of his service dog. Because of all the hoops they had to jump through to get a legitimate service dog it drives them crazy when they see people with their dogs in public places wearing the service dog vests you can just purchase online. We are very aware of this now as well since we have become friends with this family.

On our last trip we saw probably the worst example of this. There was a mother and her daughter on the tram to baggage claim at MCO - they were heading to WDW as well. The woman had a tiny little Chihuahua on a leash with a vest on that said "Emotional Support Dog." The tram wasn't at all crowded - there were maybe two other small groups of people in our car. When the tram started the dog started to shake and whine and the women picked the dog up and started to comfort it. The woman turned to us and, I kid you not, said in a baby voice "My sweet wittle baby gets so scared when she is in crowds. Momma has to give her love."

We got off the tram and my husband turned to me and said "How exactly does that work? Their Emotional Support Dog needs their emotional support when it's in public???"

 

[maltdizzy]

But honestly it doesn't matter because there is no ADA approved certification of these animals. Therefore even if Disney asks the questions the guest can lie, which they will do, and there is no proof Disney can even ask for.

This problem will have to be resolved at the ADA level and it will take lots of businesses ... theme parks, restaurants, rental companies, hotels etc .... to complain and demand for regulation and licensing put into place. Doing this will insure the trained animals are allowed, and the untrained animals are left home.

Yep, this came up in another thread. Not only is there no certification, but the ADA actually declares it illegal to require one....

Q7. What questions can a covered entity's employees ask to determine if a dog is a service animal?
A. In situations where it is not obvious that the dog is a service animal, staff may ask only two specific questions: (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability? and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform? Staff are not allowed to request any documentation for the dog, require that the dog demonstrate its task, or inquire about the nature of the person's disability.​

 

[JerseyJanice]

@disneyvoice My "emotional support dog" is all about me providing her with care and comfort. With my boys all grown up, my emotional well-being requires somebody to adore and nurture, and that job goes to my ES dog (obviously).

Fortunately, I don't need my pup to be with me 24/7 to fulfill this need. She stays home when I'm at work and stays at grandma's house when we're on vacation. Grandma has some of the same emotional need that I have to nurture. She was afraid of my last dog, but this one is an angel.

 

[vanillagirl]

It doesn't matter if u need an emotional support dog with u 24/7.... they r not allowed in public places (except air travel) They are not trained service dogs. I think peeps r getting this confused.

If u actually TRULY need emotional support 24/7 then maybe what u need is some kind of prof trained psychiatric service dog....or actual psychiatric/psychological therapy.

 

[wilkeliza]

It doesn't matter if u need an emotional support dog with u 24/7.... they r not allowed in public places (except air travel) They are not trained service dogs. I think peeps r getting this confused.

If u actually TRULY need emotional support 24/7 then maybe what u need is some kind of prof trained psychiatric service dog....or actual psychiatric/psychological therapy.

Even with a psychiatric service dog it has to have a task so if the only benefit is it being there to make you feel better it will never qualify as a service dog. Psychiatric service dogs have to be trained for a task that helps mitigate the disability.

 

[vanillagirl]

i agree 100% wikileza. I just think peeps r conveniently misunderstanding the ES dog thing.

My dd is a college student and the trend there is go to a shelter and pick up and ES...get a note from a dr and then students are allowed to keep their shelter pet (aka emotional support dog) in the dorm room. These dogs bark in the dorms..poop in he dorms...jump out and growl at my DDs guide dog...they are rampant on campus. Service dogs need to be able to focus and do their jobs without "emotional support dogs" popping out at them in public places. It's bad enough there are ignorant PEOPLE that bark talk pet stick food in her guide dogs way...

If peeps fly with an ES...They need a pet friendly hotel because emotional support animals are pets.

 

[PollyannaMom]

I'm not sure why you wouldn't feel safe going to WDW. You have a better than average chance of not even seeing a service dog. In 12 trips to WDW and 5 Disney cruises, I've seen 2 service dogs. And both were well-behaved dogs that were very obviously providing services to their handlers. I have seen the trend of questionable service dogs in my every day life (in stores, malls, restaurants) far more often, but I have yet to feel unsafe around one. I think this thread is perhaps making the issue seem like a bigger problem than it really is. You really don't need to worry about a dog attack in WDW.

I think the other poster has already answered the specific question, but this post made me think. What if we have two people: one has medically diagnosed anxiety that is abated by the presence of a dog, and the other has medically diagnosed anxiety that is caused by the presence of a dog. What's a business to do? - Either way, one customer with a disability is excluded from the restaurant/plane/whatever.

 

[NYDisGuy]

I think the other poster has already answered the specific question, but this post made me think. What if we have two people: one has medically diagnosed anxiety that is abated by the presence of a dog, and the other has medically diagnosed anxiety that is caused by the presence of a dog. What's a business to do? - Either way, one customer with a disability is excluded from the restaurant/plane/whatever.

The business has to accommodate both, usually by separating them to different locations.

 

[wilkeliza]

I think the other poster has already answered the specific question, but this post made me think. What if we have two people: one has medically diagnosed anxiety that is abated by the presence of a dog, and the other has medically diagnosed anxiety that is caused by the presence of a dog. What's a business to do? - Either way, one customer with a disability is excluded from the restaurant/plane/whatever.

It is harder when it is an open air business like say WDW but for say a school they accommodate by either different class schedule or by putting the person with the service dog and person with dog based anxiety or allergies as far away as possible form each other. On planes they put one in the front row and one in the back etc. It is not easy to say the least but the business is required to accommodate both in the most reasonable way possible.

 

[ChicagoJ]

Just curious. We are allergic to dogs (and HORRIBLY allergic to cats). When we stay at poly....is there a chance we'll stay in a room that had a pet?

 

[wilkeliza]

Just curious. We are allergic to dogs (and HORRIBLY allergic to cats). When we stay at poly....is there a chance we'll stay in a room that had a pet?

There is always a chance that a service dog could have been in the room at some point. If you are extremely allergic you can ask at check in and ask for a deep clean.