Looking for some insight from a Pentaxian

edolyne

DIS Photog
Joined
Jan 23, 2008
Messages
120
I know that there are quite a few who shoot pentax on the forum here and I am looking for some insight as to what keeps you shooting Pentax, the advantages over other brands and such. Right now I have a Sony a700 however to build out the kit that I would like to have I would need a rather large amount of cash. So I am looking to get into a system where the lenses and acessories don't cost an arm and a leg and Pentax looks like it might be a good fit. Unfortunatly though I don't have any friends who shoot Pentax to confer with them so I am looking for some help from the other members here. Also how well does the weather sealing work(if any have been brave enough to test it).

Thanks
 
I'll jump in, though Groucho, UKFan, and others are better positioned to respond than I.

For me it is value for the dollar, mostly. We couldn't afford much when we got our first DSLr in 2006 (didn't have a camera of our own at all, had to borrow from DW's parents for vacations) - we were able to get an ist*DL for pretty cheap (compared to the Rebel XT at the time, etc.). Now, the ist*DL is a lower end model so it does't focus as quickly or as well in bad lighting, but it does the job well enough and is just as good in proper lighting for me, and we saved a few hundred bucks in the process. I am now saving up for a K20D, and with the cost difference I will save with the K20D vs. a D40 or D50, etc. I will be able to purchase an extra lens or two, nicer tripod, filters for the new lenses, etc. - and be perfectly happy and get great photos, and have a lot more cash in hand than purchasing compirable Nikon or Canon products just to have a fancier name on the side of my equipment. (If the Toyota is plenty nice, I don't need a Lexus if they both do the same thing - point A to point B.)
 
I know that there are quite a few who shoot pentax on the forum here and I am looking for some insight as to what keeps you shooting Pentax, the advantages over other brands and such. Right now I have a Sony a700 however to build out the kit that I would like to have I would need a rather large amount of cash. So I am looking to get into a system where the lenses and acessories don't cost an arm and a leg and Pentax looks like it might be a good fit. Unfortunatly though I don't have any friends who shoot Pentax to confer with them so I am looking for some help from the other members here. Also how well does the weather sealing work(if any have been brave enough to test it).

Thanks

Not a Pentaxian here but I do own the A700. Just wondering what the kit is that you are looking to build?
 
Not a Pentaxian here but I do own the A700. Just wondering what the kit is that you are looking to build?

I was looking to add some of the SSM glass, such as the CZ 24-70 and a 70-200 or 70-300, this combo could cost more than 3k however when I started looking at pricing for other brands I found that doing a Pentax 16-50 and 50-135 this combination can be had for about 1400.
 

I was looking to add some of the SSM glass, such as the CZ 24-70 and a 70-200 or 70-300, this combo could cost more than 3k however when I started looking at pricing for other brands I found that doing a Pentax 16-50 and 50-135 this combination can be had for about 1400.

Yep - those are all terrific lenses, and expensive, although the 70-300 is consider reasonable for it's quality. I was lucky enough that my DH has a very good friend that is a pro potographer and he advised DH on a zoom lens for my BD. What he came up with was the 70-200 as the lens I had to have. Couldn't turn down a present now could I? ;) And it's wonderful, although heavy so it's only particular places it goes. I looked at a CZ 24-70 at a photo shop and tried it on an A700. All I could say was WOW! I had hoped to also look at the 70-300 but haven't run across it anywhere.

Maybe someday on those other two but I figure I'm pretty lucky to have the 70-200 and have filled in with other's that I really like. I was just very curious since I've been doing lens shopping myself - thanks for sharing!
 
I have a K100. I chose a Pentax for a few reasons.

One was the price. You just can't beat it.

Second, it has image stability in the body. You don't need to spend the extra money to get it in the lens.

Lastly, you can use all Pentax lenses. You can find older lenses for not much at all.
 
Well, at this point I'm fairly heavily invested in the Pentax system so I'm extremely unlikely to switch. But, I do keep tabs on the others so I like to think that I'm at least sort of well-informed.

The Pentax system is, surprise surprise, not perfect. But none of them are, that's why there are still five companies moving enough DSLRs to keep them doing well. (I'm ignoring Sigma and Panasonic and Fuji here.)

What I can do is tell you why, if I were starting over today, knowing what I know now, that I'd have to go with a Pentax because I couldn't comfortably buy into any other system. If you are easily offended, stop right here - these are my own opinions mixed in with a few facts. :) This is also mostly looking from my own perspective, where I'm willing to drop maybe around a grand for a body and consider $750 to be the most I'd ever (?) be willing to drop on a lens, and that's still a ton more than I like to spend.

I wouldn't buy a Canon because I don't like the feel nor build quality of their entry-level models and the mid-grade (40D/50D) ones lack proper weathersealing and still don't quite feel right. (And sorry, I'm not willing to spend ~$3k+ on a camera body, folks. This is just a hobby and I'm not rich.) In terms of lenses, lots of stuff is available but I feel that Canon artificially keeps quality levels low on their cheaper lenses in order to sway you into buying their big-dollar "L" lenses. IS generally is only available on high-end, expensive lenses, and off the top of my head, I don't think they have a single prime with IS. Canons also seem to have a more "plastic" look than some other DSLRs, which some love and some don't. The all-electronic nature means concerns about "chipping" old lenses that don't exist in other systems. In all honesty, I also have an intangible distaste for Canon as a company, partially stemming from my habit of rooting for the underdog - this is purely personal, but at this point, I would be unlikely to buy anything with the Canon name on it. On the good side, their AF is quite good, their high-ISO noise levels are generally good (though not class-leading any more and never were much better than the rest), and you can mount mount most any old lens on there with an adapter - but you have to make sure to get one with focus confirmation and stop-down metering.

I generally like Nikon but wouldn't feel comfortable buying one. The entry-level ones can't AF old lenses and can't use really old lenses hardly at all. The D80 was getting a little old but the D90 is pretty impressive on paper (forgetting the somewhat silly "video" thing.) The D300 is great but overly large and heavy and quite expensive. The D700 is even better but that's a lot of money (even if it's a bargain compared to the D3) and I'm not convinced than FF is worth the extra cost, size, and weight. The AF system on the D90 is a bit stripped-down so I wonder how it will perform next to the competition. The D90 also lacks weathersealing. But lenses would be a big problem. Nikon has some pretty amazing new zooms by all accounts, but they've almost abandoned primes (although IIRC they do have one prime with IS, which is more than Canon), and many of their lenses are pretty old designs. In fact, outside of a few highly-regarded zooms, there's not that much that interests me in their lens line-up. Furthermore, they have the worst adaptability of any of the big DSLRs; forget trying to adapt older lenses.

Olympus makes some very interesting DSLRs but their strength is also their weakness - the 4/3rds sensor is right off the bat the wrong aspect ratio, but also will forever have higher noise levels than the competition. You'll probably never want to go beyond ISO 1600 and even then you might be pushing it. The E3 does have weathersealing but is a little more expensive. Their AF is reportedly very good. Lenses are a very big concern - there are fewer than for any other system (and less third-party support), and while the quality level is apparently quite good across the board (with several great lenses), the costs are rather startling. You're looking at a ton of money to get a decent lens collection going. On the positive side, they also have wonderful lens adaptability, like Canon, but again, you have to watch for adapters with focus confirmation and stop-down metering. I'm a little fuzzy on IS with older lenses though, I think a recently firmware update changed the settings, but I think that originally, it couldn't do IS with older manual lenses. Still, in-body IS has to be listed as a positive of the system.

Sony doesn't interest me because they just don't seem to be taking advanced amateur photographers seriously. When the A700 came out, you couldn't turn off high-ISO noise reduction, and the photos suffered greatly for it. With the A350 and A900, they've proved that they're willing to sacrifice image quality for megapixel ratings. The A350 is basically just an A300 with more megapixels and lower image quality. How many DSLRs actually list the megapixel count on the side like you'd see on a $150 PnS? The A900 has 24mp and much worse high-ISO performance than the D700/D3, and almost certainly worse than the 21mp 5Dm2. (The 5Dm2 goes to 25,600 ISO and the A900 stops at 6,400, to give an idea.) But lenses are another big concern. There seems to be a mix of old, rebadged Minolta lenses with varying quality and some new, very expensive lenses. If you're not rich (or making a living at it), you'd probably better stick with third-party lenses. Lens adaptability is also pretty poor, you're unlikely to mount anything but current Minolta/Sony lenses on it. Another problem I have with the A300/A350 is the emphasis on acting like PnSs, encouraging you to compose on the LCD instead of the small and dim viewfinder, etc. On the positive side, their AF on the newest models is supposed to be very, very good, and they have pretty good in-body IS.

Pentax has its negatives, too - the AF is improving every model but unlikely to be at the level of the top models out there today. (One rumor is that the upcoming K2000 is the fastest yet, using the same setup as the K20D but with software tweaks, so hopefully those'll appear in a K20D firmware update.) Don't get me wrong, the K20D is very fast and works well in low light, but probably not quite as fast as some others. There aren't as many lenses and third-party support as C/N. There's still question about if Pentax will release a FF camera (the current thinking is that it's still being decided, but their true medium-format DSLR is basically ready to go and they just need to decide if it's financially feasible) but that doesn't concern me that much, I think the appeal of FF for most people is more emotional than rational (not that there aren't advantages, but there are trade-offs, too.) It's harder to find Pentax cameras and equipment in local stores than any of the other lines. If you want high continuous shooting rates, look elsewhere - 3 fps is it for any model unless you count the video-like 21fps of the K20D (no focus/exposure adjustment during this rate, and smaller photo size.)

On the positive side, all their models are weathersealed now (which I've found to be tremendously useful over the time of owning the K20D and a weathersealed lens), you get a lot of camera for your money, the build quality and feel is generally the best in the price range, they generally give the photographer good tools to work with (they're always had spot metering and DoF preview in all entry-level DSLRs unlike C/N, they all had top LCDs until the new small K2000, and their kit lens is in a whole different league than C/N/S's comparable lens.) The lens selection is pretty solid at this point, and Pentax has been churning out new lenses fairly regularly. There also are few clunkers in the line-up, and many lenses that are really great. They also continue producing new prime lenses like no one else. They generally have nice, bright viewfinders and good in-body IS. The lens compatability isn't as wide as Canon or Olympus but the M42 lens support is the best, and you can find an astounding variety of great old M42 lenses out there, and all automatically get focus confirmation, metering (you can just shoot in aperture priority and it'll adjust, or shoot full manual if you want), and IS.

The K20D with a 16-50mm and 50-135mm is a great setup IMHO. The 50-135mm is really a nice range, basically the same as 70-200mm on a FF or film camera, but it's about half the weight (or less, compared to the tanklike Canon) and shorter, so it's very easy to handhold. Both lenses are weathersealed so you can shoot in driving rain with no concerns. (I went down Splash Mt with mine and kept it out and shooting all the way down the big drop and through the splash, no issues except water splashing hard enough to get past the long lens hood and onto the front element! No big deal...) 135mm is also, IMHO, long enough for most telephoto shots, especially at Disney. And I think that 50mm as the starting focal length is much more useful than 70mm.

However, switching systems can be a bit of a pain, especially if you have a pretty modern DSLR as you do. Have you considered just going third-party? Tokina does sell a variant of the Pentax 16-50mm and 50-135mm (with a different barrel, no weathersealing, and inferior lens coatings) but I don't think they're available for the Sony mount. Tamron and Sigma both have good fast wide primes, and Sigma makes a 50-150mm F2.8 however again, I'm not sure if it's available in a Sony mount.
 
Groucho,

Thank you for the very long and informative post. Before posting I did look at third party options for the Sony however I would like to have the SSM or SDM motor inside the lens. Unfortunatly it does not look like the off brands are offering that for the Sony mount yet. So that is what brought me to the Pentax line as they have the lenses which are weathersealed, SDM and are quite a bit less money. From there I also noticed that they also have some very nice limited edition prime lenses which have really peaked my interest. I also took a look at the Panasonic G1 as we know that the kit should be 799, but the pricing on the other lenses are unknown which leaves it out of the running for now. Ultimatly I don't have a ton of disposable cash to spend on my hobby so I am just trying to build a nice kit without breaking the bank.
 
edolyne,

I recently switched systems myself, except I switched into a Sony A700 after debating between Pentax and Sony for quite a while. Honestly, either could have won, and I'm not interested in bashing Pentax, if that's the way you go, awesome! Just wanted to say that if it is focusing speed that is drawing you to SSM/SDM/HSM, there is no clear advantage as the A700 has the fastest and strongest in-body focus motor of any DSLR. I've compared the K20D with 16-50/2.8 side by side my A700 with Tamron 17-50/2.8 and there is pretty much no difference.. there is the noise factor with SDM, though, which may be more important to you than me, along with the sealing. I went almost exclusively third party as building a complete kit all at once on a budget was my goal, and pricing out what I wanted, it was just about the same price for Pentax (half Pentax, half Sigma/Tamron) vs Sony (mostly Sigma/Tamron). Having in-body IS really makes third-party a great option to save money.

Sigma does make some HSM lenses for both Pentax & Sony too.. off the top of my head I know of 24-70/28, 50-150/2.8, 70-200/2.8, 50/1.4. Though they are brand new for both mounts so I think just becoming available.

My lineup is Sigma 10-20, Tamron 17-50/2.8, Minolta 70-210/4 (replaced someday by Sigma or Tamron 70-200/2.8), Sigma 105/2.8 Macro, Sigma 30/1.4, Sony 50/1.4. If I had gone Pentax, the ultra wide would be the more expensive Pentax 12-24, the 17-50 would be the more expensive 16-50, not sure I would have bought the 50-135 as its just not long enough for me so I'd probably have the Sigma 70-200 HSM, the 50/1.4 would be the cheaper Pentax 50/1.4, and I'd still own the Sigma 30/1.4 and 105/2.8 macro. Comparable systems, and price tradeoffs make the overall cost about the same too, at least for what I was looking for.
 
So that is what brought me to the Pentax line as they have the lenses which are weathersealed, SDM and are quite a bit less money. From there I also noticed that they also have some very nice limited edition prime lenses which have really peaked my interest.
Yes, the Pentax lenses give you a lot for the money. Certainly no one else is offering the sealing, SDM, and F2.8 for that kind of money - especially if you start looking at IS lenses for the C/Ns.

I've only got one Limited lens, but what a lens! The 31mm F1.8 is a true legend and regarded as one of the best lenses ever made. I would like to pick up the 77mm F1.8 Limited also. However, I'm not sure how much longer they'll be around, Pentax has been slowly phasing out the "film" lenses like this one. There is a series of three digital Limited lenses, which are all pancake lenses, but they're not as fast as the film ones. Pentax tends to get most of the extra-quality manual-focus lenses that get released lately, too, like the Voigtlander and Zeiss lenses (these are different than the ones in the Sony mount, these are traditional Zeiss lenses - manual-focus primes with extreme quality.)

I recently switched systems myself, except I switched into a Sony A700 after debating between Pentax and Sony for quite a while. Honestly, either could have won, and I'm not interested in bashing Pentax, if that's the way you go, awesome! Just wanted to say that if it is focusing speed that is drawing you to SSM/SDM/HSM, there is no clear advantage as the A700 has the fastest and strongest in-body focus motor of any DSLR. I've compared the K20D with 16-50/2.8 side by side my A700 with Tamron 17-50/2.8 and there is pretty much no difference.. there is the noise factor with SDM, though, which may be more important to you than me, along with the sealing.
I would probably agree with that. Some find the SDM to be notably quicker but I suspect that much of that is just subjective, because of the silent focusing. I don't mind the focus noise too much so SDM is not a must-have for me - but it doesn't hurt. :) One or two early reports on the upcoming K2000 have said that its focus was very fast and noisy, so people are wondering is Pentax also went with a stronger and faster in-body motor for that one... I don't know for sure yet. Updates to the K200D and K20D are expected next year; if there is a faster in-body motor, no doubt we'll see it on them then.

My lineup is Sigma 10-20, Tamron 17-50/2.8, Minolta 70-210/4 (replaced someday by Sigma or Tamron 70-200/2.8), Sigma 105/2.8 Macro, Sigma 30/1.4, Sony 50/1.4. If I had gone Pentax, the ultra wide would be the more expensive Pentax 12-24, the 17-50 would be the more expensive 16-50, not sure I would have bought the 50-135 as its just not long enough for me so I'd probably have the Sigma 70-200 HSM, the 50/1.4 would be the cheaper Pentax 50/1.4, and I'd still own the Sigma 30/1.4 and 105/2.8 macro. Comparable systems, and price tradeoffs make the overall cost about the same too, at least for what I was looking for.
Comparable although the Pentax lenses are going to be better quality than the Sigma ones/Tamron ones and of course, you get that sealing with the 16-50mm - of course, the A700 isn't really sealed either so that's really not an option anyway. The Sigma 10-20mm and Tamron 17-50mm are available for Pentax if you want to make an exact price comparison.

For the long tele, I have to say, I've found the 50-135mm remarkably flexible, and have decided that I'd much rather have the 50-69mm range available and give up the 136-200mm area. 70mm is IMHO not wide enough to use for very long without it being restrictive. I would give the Sigma 50-150mm or Tokina 50-135mm a serious consideration, plus the lighter weight and smaller size make it much easier to live with. I've got a pair of manual focus very high-quality 70-210mm F2.8-F4 lenses that I'm going to be selling any day now, the extra range just isn't worth it to carry them around with me. Just a thought for your consideration...

I would love the upcoming Pentax 60-250mm F4 lens to get some real extra reach (which should be out by my next trip even), but I doubt I'll be getting it any time soon... $1,500! :scared1: Apparently, they put an "unobtainium" lens element in there. :) Hopefully street prices will fall to a more reasonable level soon.
 
Comparable although the Pentax lenses are going to be better quality than the Sigma ones/Tamron ones

I wouldn't really agree with this.. the two lenses I mentioned, Pentax 16-50 and 12-24, are both Tokina optical designs (50-135 too). I'm not saying that's a bad thing, more like saying that (some) Sigma/Tamron/Tokina lenses get a bum rap.. I know that I am absolutely in love with my 17-50/2.8 ;). Sony has the same sort of partnership with Tamron, where the Sony 18-200 and newer 18-250 are the same lenses as their Tamron counterparts in a different shell.
 
I wouldn't really agree with this.. the two lenses I mentioned, Pentax 16-50 and 12-24, are both Tokina optical designs (50-135 too). I'm not saying that's a bad thing, more like saying that (some) Sigma/Tamron/Tokina lenses get a bum rap.. I know that I am absolutely in love with my 17-50/2.8 ;). Sony has the same sort of partnership with Tamron, where the Sony 18-200 and newer 18-250 are the same lenses as their Tamron counterparts in a different shell.
Actually, the 16-50mm F2.8 is optically 100% a Pentax design, just like the 10-17mm and 50-135mm that Tokina also makes variations of for other mounts. I believe that the 12-24mm is a Tokina design but am not quite sure - there have been reports of Pentax engineers saying that their 12-24mm is their own design, and it is much lighter than the Tokina. Tokina also has a 35mm 1:1 macro like Pentax, but Pentax has stated very strongly that their 35mm 1:1 macro (which has gotten rave reviews) is 100% their own design, and the Tokina is a different lens. Still, it seems strange that both would come up with such a unique lens at such similar times. :confused3 Regardless, the 12-24mm seems to get better reviews (whether Pentax or Tokina) than the 10-20mm last time I checked (admittedly, I don't pay too much attention to non-fisheye ultrawides.) Actually, some comparisons have shown the Pentax 12-24mm a little better in overall sharpness than the Tokina although they theoretically should be about the same.

Also, the Pentax versions are going to have the "quick-shift" (fine-tune focus manually in AF mode) and the superior SMC lens coating as compared to the Tokina variants, both of which will also be missing from any third-party lens. The coating definitely makes a difference, you're certainly less likely to see flare with the SMC coatings.

FWIW, my understanding of the current Pentax 18-250mm lens is that it is also a rebadged Tamron.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trashing third-party lenses, there are some definitely bargains to be had. But if you're talking a Tamron 17-50mm vs Pentax 16-50mm, right off the bat you're giving up 1mm (which is noticable when that wide!), you're giving up quick-shift focusing, you're giving up SDM focusing, you're giving up weathersealing, you're giving up SMC coating, and that's before you start comparing sharpness, bokeh, etc. And if the Tamron 17-50mm is anything like my Tamron 28-75mm, the build quality is pretty mediocre at best. (Sharp lens, lousy build.) You can compare the lenses all day but there's no question that there are some definite advantages to the OEM lens in this case.
 
As a fairly new Pentax DSLR user, I thought I would throw in my 2 cents worth. My primary consideration when looking for an upgrade to our P&S was the Pentax DSLRs being able to use literally any Pentax (and many Pentax mount 3rd party) lens ever made. I have several lenses from my K1000 days in high school and college.

Just about any DSLR from one of the bigger names will perform much better than most any P&S and will allow the user to go from full automatic to full manual mode and get as creative as one would want. Most will produce really good pictures if the user is willing to learn the camera and practice, practice, practice....

I won't pretend to know half as much as Groucho, :worship: but I do agree with his points on the Pentax camera's strengths (weather sealing, AS in the body, etc.). However, after owning my K200D since May, I have found some shortcomings. The biggest is the K200D does not like to autofocus in very low light. It tends to hunt a great deal and sometimes just flat out refuses to AF. This is not a deal breaker for me as the MF capabilty is easy to use. Also the FPS is not the fastest. 99% of the time this is not critical, but it would be nice for some of the sports stuff I like to do.

I don't know if these aspects are unique to the Pentax cameras (my boss shoots a Nikon D200 and he sometimes has issues with the low-light focusing as well). But having to do it all over again, I would do it without regret.

The K200D just "feels" good in the hands. It is heavier than some others (almost as heavy as my boss' D200!) but I like that. I have the 18-250mm lens that Groucho referred to and I LOVE it. It is not great for low light (F/3.5 at 18mm), but it covers a lot of ground. It is very sharp, in my opinion, and allows me to carry fewer lenses.

Hope some of this helps!
 
I just wanted to thank everyone for their input on this. As of right now I am still debating what to do as I am invested in Sony and with the current economic outlook it may not be the best time to take a loss on the Sony and convert to Pentax. I really do appreciate the time that you all put into your replies.
 
No problem, glad to be of help. I would say that your best bets are third-party lenses and maybe find some decent older Minolta-brand lenses that might be available for sorta-cheap on eBay or similar places.

With lenses, you can usually get nearly all your money back when selling... not so for bodies!
 












Receive up to $1,000 in Onboard Credit and a Gift Basket!
That’s right — when you book your Disney Cruise with Dreams Unlimited Travel, you’ll receive incredible shipboard credits to spend during your vacation!
CLICK HERE







New Posts







DIS Facebook DIS youtube DIS Instagram DIS Pinterest DIS Tiktok DIS Twitter DIS Bluesky

Back
Top