looking for advice/info

[clori]

I have an dd8. While I think she is a great kid I am realizing that she has some issues though I don't know for sure what they are. DD8 is a bright child and academics are easy enough for her. The report card she got today was all As/Bs. She can be very active at times but also has decent concentration etc so I doubt she has something like adhd. She can loose focus if working on something not that desired (homework etc).

Basically dd is having trouble making friends and isn't well liked by kids in her class. In January dd's teacher told me dd was having trouble getting along with kids and it was getting worse. I asked her about seeing the school adjustment counselor. I have met twice with the school adjustment counselor and she has met with dd individually a few times. She has also done some observing in the classroom off/on though not specifically to observe dd. After that dd seemed to be doing better at school based on a few comments from the teacher.

DD likes to be first in line and the counselor thinks that it goes beyond a normal desire and thinks it is anxiety. The other issue is that dd seems to see things her way only, very rigidly, which leads to arguing. For instance if you tell dd that even though we both know 1+1=2 but the teacher insists 1+1=25 there is no way dd will just go along with that. DD knows the rules and seems to have a burning desire to tell on kids who break the rules (though she doesn't see it as tattling which is part of why other kids don't like her).

At the school adjustment counselor's request I have called a place regarding therapy for anxiety. That was last Thursday and I haven't heard back yet. I did talk to a real person and was told it would take a few days to get back in touch. I also asked dd's teacher if we can have a confernce with me, her and the adjustment counselor which will hopefully be soon.

DD tells me the kids are mean to her, don't want to be grouped with her etc. The teacher has started to take recess away for the tattling (not that I blame her for that) but there was a very recent instance in which one day dd said a girl was making fun of her eye brows and calling her a uni-brow and dd lost recess for tattling and the other kids told dd to shut up.

Today I picked dd up from school. Another child ran by me and told me dd has an awful day (dd wasn't even with me yet). I have no idea what that meant. I saw dd and she asked me if she could go to the library for a second. While I was waiting I saw her teacher. The teacher came over to me and told me dd had been doing great except that she had some difficulty with the substitute a few days ago. If the teacher says she is doing fine and another child said she had a bad day I don't know what that indicates.

Basically I'm concerned that my child may have some issues but I'm also concerned that there is pontential issues caused by other kids. I want dd to be happy. I also feel like no matter what dd does the other kids simply don't like her so as a mother I feel awful and am beginning to think about homeschooling. On the other hand I don't want to leave a real issue unaddressed.

Does anxiety or any other issues come to mind? I'm hesitant to post this because I feel people will simply say dd is a brat. DD does have one friend in the class that she eats lunch with. Some other things which are probably completely unrelated is that for the past year or so dd suddenly started to be bothered by seems in her socks. She is also scared of the bathroom light going out since we lost power once while she was in there again maybe a year ago. DD also happens to have a medical disease - alopecia- in which hairloss occurs. She currently has most of her hair but her eyebrows aren't the best shape and she is missing most of her eyelashes.

I don't know if the disabilities board is the right place to post but I thought I would try here. I hope it is okay to ask for help here.

 

[pudge the fish]

first I can give you a
and say here is a place to post things like this
I have no advice for you but can say that kids can be mean at a really early age.
My DD is now starting to pick out the *mean girls* in her school-and she's in 5th grade- she doesn't talk boys ( unless it's the Jonas Brothers) and she is very serious about school-

Seams in my socks annoy me to no end also- (really I HATE socks and only wear them under extreme conditions) so that could just be her deciding she hates socks or it could be something more. with me it's the tight feeling- constricted and just tight while wearing socks.

if you are going to see someone who is a pro and can help- wait and see what they say-and go from there.

good luck and best wishes
keep us posted- maybe someone who has better experience than I can help!

 

[mechurchlady]

Sue, bookworm and others should be around soon. She may be a neurovariant but bookworm and others are the experts. I will put out coffee and hope the come around to help you out.

Hugs
Laurie

 

[C&G'sMama]

To OP Welcome,

My personal opinion is you've come to the right place. Every kid is so different. Go with your gut. In addition to go to the anxiety specialist. Have you talked to you pediatrician? Coming here was an excellant idea to network with other parents. If you haven't already you might want to start keeping a journal of behaviors. What happens when?

Good Luck, keep us posted.

 

[BeckyScott]

I will put out coffee and hope the come around to help you out.

Thank you.

All I can tell you is sort of what C&G's said. Go with your gut. Trust your mommy instinct. If you think something is wrong (and it sounds like you do) then pursue it. I'd start with your ped, too, try to get a referral over to a psych for evaluation maybe.

There is a big big difference between punishing a child for tattling, and a child being bullied. And I would find out what that difference is, what the school's policy is, what the teacher says. If your daughter is being picked on, in my book that's bullying, and she shouldn't be punished for reporting it, and the school should step in and do something about it. Also, if she is "tattling" on a regular basis, the teacher might not really be listening to her anymore and just automatically punishing her, when in fact some of her tattling might be legit issues. Many schools have a "kids will be kids" attitude and try to blow it off and it's possible you'll have to have a temper tantrum yourself to get anything done. If she continues to get punished for tattling, eventually she will clam up so much she will be afraid to report anything, even when it's something important...

 

[locolala]

Your daughter sounds a lot like me when I was her age. I had many many problems with teasing and bullying in school, and I was always getting good grades.. but my teachers couldn't get me to stay on task. They found out I have a mild form of ADD, and that my IQ is just at the genius point. I think your daughter might simply be bored in class like I was. I have anxiety as well, and there were days where I had to have everything just.right. or I couldn't function. I would talk to the specialist, see what they have to say, and maybe have them do an eval for learning disabilities. While I don't call myself learning disabled, I know I have some difficulties learning in certain areas. I hope you and your DD get the help you need

 

[DisDreaminMom]

Hi Clori, Thanks for posting. Thanks for being a great mom. You are right to question and investigate. Have you read our thread about behavior challenges? Mechurchlady told us about you and you are welcome to join in and discuss or vent and let us know of your progress. Thanks Mechurchlady for the thought.

I would go to the library and do some investigations about the concept of Asperger's syndrome. It is considered "autism" but is more of a thinking difference than what we see nowadays as autism in the media. I am not saying that this is daughter's issue, but a lot of her behaviors are similar to our experiences with our children and this might be helpful. There is a man named Tony Attwood who writes in a loving, logical way about Asperger's and it may help you.

Your daughter's future quality of life and outlook on life depend on how you handle this now. There are so many incredible, knowledgeable people on this particular board, and they have helped me tremendously this year.

Glad to have you. Becky and Mechurchlady are excellent resources for the sock issue. I know my Patagonia socks and LL Bean socks are completely seamless and I wash them all the time because I can only afford a few pairs at a time, but it's totally worth it!

 

[disney-dreams]

clori,
I would suggest that you have your daughter tested for an Autism Spectrum Disorder. My daughter was recently diagnosed with an ASD. She too had social "issues" and had a hard time focusing in school over the last several years, although she did very well academically. I thought she might have ADD, but all of her behaviors just didn't "fit".

My daughter is also afraid of the dark, has anxiety about lots of things and gets very upset easily especially if things don't happen the way they are "supposed too". I started, in 2nd grade, requesting teachers that I knew were very structured and stuck to a schedule, and this helped a lot. However, about two months into the 3rd grade, she started having more emotional and social issues with her classmates than usual and she was becoming very overwhelmed with school.

I work in Special Education at my daughters elementary school (I started working there four years ago when I found out that my oldest daughter had a seizure disorder). I have learned so much about all kinds of "disabilities", especially autism. There are many different types of disorders that fall on the Autism Spectrum, and it is not uncommon for children to be older when they are diagnosed. Your school should have access to an Autism Specialist that can do the testing that your daughter needs. There are also tons of awesome books on Autism Disorders. Good luck, you are already taking the steps that will help your daughter learn to cope with "life".

 

[bookwormde]

Welcome,

Lot of good advice from PPs.

I do not know what type of bullying policy you child’s school has but punishing a child for “tattling” is completely inappropriate in any bullying prevention program. If it turns out that your daughter has some autism spectrum characteristics it is just plain abuse.

Your daughter does have a few indictors of some potential neurovariations and with the manifestation of heightened anxiety I would suggest asking your school for a formal evaluation. Even if this does not result in a formal classification it often can help identify areas of concern, which might be contributing to the heightened anxiety.

If you can find a councilor with significant experience with neurovariations (such as Aspergers) it might be helpful for your daughter to have someone to “talk to” and the councilor will be able to offer some thoughts from his/her experience for you to consider.

Just remember that in the vast majority of cases in children anxiety is a secondary manifestation or other issues.

Atwood’s book is titled “the Complete Guide to Aspergers” , he is the preeminent clinician in this area.

bookwormde

 

[clori]

thanks everyone! Honestly I don't know what to think. At home most of the time dd seems fine. She can fight with her sister at times but it seems like normal sibling stuff to me. However she still has an occasional tantrum which I thought would be done at a younger age (she is in third grade turning 9 in May). She is getting better though. The other night we went to girl scouts to find out that the meeting was cancelled. I did get a text message but my cell phone wasn't with us when all of us (dh and dd4) went to run an errand right before. She started to get mad but quickly calmed down to mad (which I understood) without any tantrum.

I met with the school adjustment counselor last week and I actually mentioned the possibility of high functioning aspergers. She is convinced dd has anxiety and doesn't think it is anything else. I am not as convinced. I also called the child psych place she recommended and still haven't gotten a call back. Just Thursday I bumped into the teacher at the end of the day. We had a pleasant conversation and she willingly agreed to a conference for us and the adjustment counselor. There was no school Friday. I told the teacher for the two of them to figure out when since my schedule probably is the most flexible.

The teacher seems very concerned with the arguing done by dd. I think it is part of the I'm right and can't see things any other way like a black/white approach to understanding. On the other hand I also think the kids have learned how to set dd off and know she will be the one to get in trouble not them and may set her up. In terms of the alopecia a girl just came to dd's class and made comments about dd's eyebrows on her first day. It wasn't like she tried to know dd before she took an immediate dislike. Then the following school day she made another comment. Also dd's motor skills aren't great though she doesn't qualify for ot at school. For instance she can sort of tie but not the best. She struggles to use pants with buttons. Her handwriting isn't perfect but she can hold a pencil correctly which is what the school cares about. Her gross motor has issues but again only bad enough to make her picked last at gym. She can't ride a bike yet but some is our fault. We live on a steep hill etc. She can't dribble a basketball that well. She can't do a cartwheel that looks decent etc. She can swim to a level I'm comfortable with (minnow at the ymca) but wouldn't survive a swim team. She is decent at ice skating.

At this point I do think there is a potential for some issues with dd but I also do not want her picked on/bullied so I want to approach it from both angles when I meet with the teacher. I am petrified as to what it will be like if dd does loose her hair again ( a very real possibility).

My pediatrician is great for medical illnesses such as pneumonia, ear infections etc. However I don't think she is great for other things. For instance when dd started loosing her hair at 2.5 she was like well she is nervous and that happens sometimes after tests ruled out things. I did take dd to a specialist. I might call next week and see if she can recommend anyone for me to call.

Who do I call? A child pshchiatrist? The school adjustment counselor told me to request counseling. I'm okay with that but I want to have some sort of real evaluation. Is there a special name I should be asking about to have testing done.

 

[C&G'sMama]

I met with the school adjustment counselor last week and I actually mentioned the possibility of high functioning aspergers. She is convinced dd has anxiety and doesn't think it is anything else. I am not as convinced. .

Your "I am not as Convinced" is the "gut" Becky and I were talking about. You know your child better than anyone else. Keep in mind Bookwormde's words "Just remember that in the vast majority of cases in children anxiety is a secondary manifestation or other issues."

As far as your pediatrician. That's common, but just be pushy, say that you feel this could be a real issue and you would like a referral to someone and don't take no for an answer. Remember your pediatrician is not interacting with your child on a daily basis. As I mentioned before start keeping a journal and a notebook and bring it with you to every Doctor's appointment,school appointment etc.. We do that with our kids. It is very helpful. It is also helpful to have a picture of your child with you if you are in a meeting without them, such as a CSE, so that everyone in the room can see who they are making decisions for.

Good luck. You know your child best, remember that.

 

[KirstenB]

Clori, a child psychiatrist would be a good place to start. Our older dd sees one for ADD. Our younger dd has a mild form of autism, and when the doctor was seeing our older dd, she (the doctor) mentioned there are some kids with autism seen in their practice.

Our younger dd was dx'd pretty early, at 22 mths. Her diagnosis was at our children's hospital, and done by a team. The team was made up of developmental peds, and therapists, and an education specialist. You could go that route too. I wish our daughter was closer in age to your child, so I could offer better advice, but I have a feeling that the person who makes the diagnosis may be different for a school-age child, vs a very young child.

Anyway, my heart goes out to you. You sound like a very kind, intuitive mom!

 

[bookwormde]

If it turns out to be some spectrum characteristics or even a diagnostic level that meets the criteria for Aserpgers, I would not recommend a psychiatrist; it is very rare to find one who is current and competent in this area. They also tend to be trained in the “disease” mode of clinical work not managing genetic variations and often do more harm than good.

At this point with school I would focus on the bullying issues. It does sound like you school is still in the “dark ages” in this area, as example choosing teams in gym is a practice in has been abandoned by many schools because of the damaging potential it has. Your schools councilor also is still in the “dark ages” about neurovariations by her comments so I doubt you will get much help there either

Since you are still feeling your way through things, the best thing you can do is to educate yourself about the possibilities, Once you have read the Atwood book you will be in a much better positions to make decisions about your child and what path is appropriate for her.

Also reading “Perfect Targets” by Rebekah Heinrichs is a must read for anyone with a child that is exposed to bullying.

bookwormde

 

[SueM in MN]

First, it might be useful to get an overview of what a typical 8 yr old is like. This PBS article is pretty good.
This is another good article about the age stage of 6-8 yr olds.
Some of the things that look like problems (like viewing things as black or white and not being able to see other's points of view) may not actually be unusual for 8 yr olds since children of that age are still working on seeing/understanding things from other's points of view.
You didn't say when your child's birthmonth is, but because of cut off dates for school, there can be kids in class who are a whole year older than the youngest in class.

Thank you.

All I can tell you is sort of what C&G's said. Go with your gut. Trust your mommy instinct. If you think something is wrong (and it sounds like you do) then pursue it. I'd start with your ped, too, try to get a referral over to a psych for evaluation maybe.

There is a big big difference between punishing a child for tattling, and a child being bullied. And I would find out what that difference is, what the school's policy is, what the teacher says. If your daughter is being picked on, in my book that's bullying, and she shouldn't be punished for reporting it, and the school should step in and do something about it. Also, if she is "tattling" on a regular basis, the teacher might not really be listening to her anymore and just automatically punishing her, when in fact some of her tattling might be legit issues. Many schools have a "kids will be kids" attitude and try to blow it off and it's possible you'll have to have a temper tantrum yourself to get anything done. If she continues to get punished for tattling, eventually she will clam up so much she will be afraid to report anything, even when it's something important...

I agree with everything Becky wrote

I met with the school adjustment counselor last week and I actually mentioned the possibility of high functioning aspergers. She is convinced dd has anxiety and doesn't think it is anything else. I am not as convinced. I also called the child psych place she recommended and still haven't gotten a call back.

I'd probably start with the child psych place she recommended.
Since they did not call you back yet, I would see if they have a website and see what kind of feeling you get from that.

A child Psychologist or neuropsychologist would be a better place to start than a Psychiatrist (Psychiatrists have their place, but are often more involved with medication than other types of treatment). Whether a Psychiatrist or Psychologist, you want to deal with someone who specializes in children (they need to have a good understanding of child development because children are not just small adults).

Another option would be a Developmental Pediatrician. They are Pediatricians with specialized training in development and behavior. There are not that many of them and you may have a long wait, but it would be another option.

There are no specific tests for most of the conditions she would be screened for. A lot of the testing will be cataloging the things she has problems with and seeing which condition seems to best fit with your DD. Each diagnosis has specific criteria about which signs and symptoms and how many are needed to 'meet' that diagnosis. Some are "must be present" to meet that diagnosis and some are "may be present"

There are many conditions that have anxiety as a symptom and many kids with alopecia fit the criteria for anxiety disorders or obsessive compulsive disorders.
So even though the alopecia seems like a purely physical condition, it could be a physical manifestation of a psychological condition.

One thing I would suggest is to keep an open mind - you don't want to settle on a diagnosis (like Aspergers or High functioning autism) until an evaluation is done. If you do a lot of reading ahead of time, it's easy to see one path that you are reading about and not see other paths that might be equally likely.
For whatever condition, arriving at a diagnosis is a bit like putting a puzzle together without really knowing what picture it will make.
And, just to make things a bit more confusing, some of the pieces you are given may actually belong to a different puzzle, not the one you are working on. If you are think you know what the picture is, you may just see the pieces that look like they belong to that picture and actually miss the pieces that are for your picture.

Good luck in your quest

 

[honugirl]

I know this is going to sound goofy, but a trip to the doctor to check on things like hormone levels might be in order. She sounds a lot like me when I was a kid. I didn't know it at the time, and honestly, it took up until last year to really start to pin my problems down. I ended up having a tumor on my pituitary gland which was secreting hormones, these hormones caused my body to go CRAZY! I believe I've had the tumor from a very young age and also believe that it was influencing my behavior as a child. In fact, it was causing my anxiety because it was secreting cortisol which is a stress hormone that your body makes in flight or fight mode. I just had the tumor removed and my anxiety has decreased so much that I no longer feel the need to take medication for it. We're going to have to wait and see what else goes away when my body starts to regulate itself in the next year or so.

I had a high degree of anxiety as a child, especially at school. I was finally diagnosed with ADD at age 25, I question whether or not that was accurate (I would dx'ed me on the borderline of Asperger's personally...). I have an incredible sense of right/wrong and when I was younger I wasn't afraid to use it. I'm better now, but when the hormones go nuts, sometimes it just comes out. My best friends in elementary school were the librarian and the kitchen lady. I have some very strange quirks. I am extremely smart, but would get agitated over the weirdest things. To this day, I throw tantrums with little to no warning over stupid things and I'm 30 years old. I have certain things that have to be done my way, or I go nuts.

Keep hunting for answers, they're out there! She's not alone. many doctors do not realize how powerful hormones are and what can happen when they aren't functioning properly.

 

[bookwormde]

“One thing I would suggest is to keep an open mind - you don't want to settle on a diagnosis (like Aspergers or High functioning autism) until an evaluation is done. If you do a lot of reading ahead of time, it's easy to see one path that you are reading about and not see other paths that might be equally likely.
For whatever condition, arriving at a diagnosis is a bit like putting a puzzle together without really knowing what picture it will make.
And, just to make things a bit more confusing, some of the pieces you are given may actually belong to a different puzzle, not the one you are working on. If you are think you know what the picture is, you may just see the pieces that look like they belong to that picture and actually miss the pieces that are for your picture.”


Very well said Sue, and even once an evaluation is done and a diagnosis is made keep an open mind. Our children and we are still susceptible to standard challenges of life and particularly with spectrum characteristics can mimic or be so intertwined that is easy to miss an issue that at its core is unrelated to autism (or any other complex issue).

One other thing to keep in mind is that a formal diagnosis, while it has some value really is only a generality, and it is understanding the specifics of characteristic issues and developing skills, therapies and accommodations is what is really important for the development, growth and quality of life for our children.

bookwormde