Looking for a teaching job? Rhode Island is hiring 74 at one school!

[daughtersrus]

You need to read this thread in its entirety. That is not true...

Did you read the yahoo link? It clearly says that Gallo was not willing to give them anything extra for increasing their time and duties during the school day.

 

[TheDisneyGirl02]

Edited - I can't understand how this boils down to blame for some of you. The blame should be shared amongst all who failed the children - teachers, parents, and the kids themselves. The whole system is broken. The parents and kids can't be fired. They can't be forced to change. But the teachers can. When they refused to change, they lost their jobs.

I don't see the point is discussing blame. It is fruitless...

You are very correct, sadly you can't fire kids or their parents. If kids who didn't care could be fired (kicked out of school), maybe the school would be doing better.

I just don't see how firing 88 EXPERIENCED teachers and support staff will make the situation any better? There's nothing like bringing in just-out-of-college kids (who may I add could only be four years older than the students that they will be teaching) without giving them somebody to be a mentor? That's just crazy.

I had a teacher when I was a senior that was fresh out of college. Sadly, he was more a friend to the popular kids than a teacher to all of us. The stuff he allowed to go on in his classroom was terrible. I was shy and too scared to say anything at the time...if I were in that class now, there is no way I would stay silent.

I realize that they can hire up to 50% of the old teachers back, but can you image 44 newly graduated college students in a high school where the schooli s already in trouble? I highly doubt anything good will come from it.

As far as money is concerned, the college kids who are just graduating now are expecting FAR more in compensation than teachers who have been around for 20+ years. I used to work with a girl who was graduating from college (not an education major) and she expected to make $50,000 directly out of college. Does it happen - yes, but not very often.

 

[FireDancer]

Edited - I can't understand how this boils down to blame for some of you. The blame should be shared amongst all who failed the children - teachers, parents, and the kids themselves. The whole system is broken. The parents and kids can't be fired. They can't be forced to change. But the teachers can. When they refused to change, they lost their jobs.

I don't see the point is discussing blame. It is fruitless...

That is exactly what I think and posted on page 12. It is up to the parents, teachers, and kids to motivate themselves. When any of those three fail something has to be done. The only part of those 3 the administrators have power over is the teacher part.

 

[daughtersrus]

That is exactly what I think and posted on page 12. It is up to the parents, teachers, and kids to motivate themselves. When any of those three fail something has to be done. The only part of those 3 the administrators have power over is the teacher part.

It wasn't these teachers that failed. These students came to them unable to read or understand math. I haven't read anything about the superintendent doing anything with the staff and/or students that feed into this high school.

We don't even know if the test scores that are being compared are for the same students. I read (I don't remember the link) that this is an area that has a large transient population.

 

[TheZue]

You are very correct, sadly you can't fire kids or their parents. If kids who didn't care could be fired (kicked out of school), maybe the school would be doing better.

I just don't see how firing 88 EXPERIENCED teachers and support staff will make the situation any better? There's nothing like bringing in just-out-of-college kids (who may I add could only be four years older than the students that they will be teaching) without giving them somebody to be a mentor? That's just crazy.

That was my point. Regardless of the reasoning, no good teacher is going to be scrambling to go work there because they've proven they are willing to just fire everyone if bargining fails. You are going to get either inexperienced teachers or plain old bad ones who can't find other employment. It's going to be an absolute last resort to put in an application there.

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

When will parents be held accountable for their children. The students need to have some responsibility also. ... My students score above average, but I have parent involvement and great communication. This is due to the administration at the top implementing programs, and not firing all the teachers. My school is a high poverty, high acheiving school.

Many of the parents are poor and/or immigrants and/or absent. If you've got a plan that works so well in your high poverty/high achieving school with parent involvement, by all means, share it.

Had the parents done their job in the first place the teachers would not have been forced to be put in this position.

See above.

Do you work extra for no pay?

BK (before kids) when I worked at a professional salaried job, and my DH who also works at a professional salaried job, you can bet we put in plenty of extra time, as well as performed any duties necessary to get the job done.

Any time you've got a 44% absentee rate, that ain't the teachers fault. It's pretty hard to teach math when the person who is supposed to be learning not in his seat.

I had that same issue with two of my kids' Pre-calc teacher who, by November of each of those years, had been absent so much, I was furious. It's pretty hard to learn Math when the teacher isn't there. Thank God for those personal days! And thank God she got promoted to an administrative position, because she was replaced by a teacher who showed up.

More than 50% do not graduate. How in the name of all that is holy do you NOT know your kid is about to be a h.s. dropout? How does 4 years go by and you not know if your kid is going to graduate or not.

I seriously doubt that what happens is that graduation is around the corner, and the student and parent suddenly find out the student isn't going to graduate. It's more an issue of 50% of the students who start as Freshmen somewhere along the way don't make it to graduation.

You are very correct, sadly you can't fire kids or their parents. If kids who didn't care could be fired (kicked out of school), maybe the school would be doing better.

Well, that sure would help the school numbers look better...just keep the kids who care enough to do well.

I just don't see how firing 88 EXPERIENCED teachers and support staff will make the situation any better? There's nothing like bringing in just-out-of-college kids (who may I add could only be four years older than the students that they will be teaching) without giving them somebody to be a mentor? That's just crazy.

Up to half can be hired back. Altho, I wouldn't be surprised if they attempt to make a point by allowing the new teachers to flounder.

As far as money is concerned, the college kids who are just graduating now are expecting FAR more in compensation than teachers who have been around for 20+ years. I used to work with a girl who was graduating from college (not an education major) and she expected to make $50,000 directly out of college. Does it happen - yes, but not very often.

So you're saying that the new grads who might be applying for these teachering jobs are expecting to get FAR more than the $70 - $80,000/year of the fired teachers? Even without the state of the economy, I can't believe they'd expect that. And what if they did "expect" FAR more in compensation? They'd be you-know-what out of luck.

That was my point. Regardless of the reasoning, no good teacher is going to be scrambling to go work there because they've proven they are willing to just fire everyone if bargining fails. You are going to get either inexperienced teachers or plain old bad ones who can't find other employment. It's going to be an absolute last resort to put in an application there.

I would hesitate to go work there not out of a fear of getting fired, but out of a fear of some form of retaliation by the union/fired teachers/fired teachers hired back. I'm sure that "inexperienced teachers or plain old bad ones" aren't the only teachers not currently working in RI.

I'm not saying this is in any way a good situation or that there are any easy solutions. No matter how it turns out, there will still be blame...some of it created to fit certain arguments.

I'm going to a soccer tournament in March, and some of our players are from CF High School. I'm curious to hear their take on it.

 

[TheZue]

I'm sure there are very good teachers out of work in RI as well. But who doesn't have a list of jobs they'd like to work at that they apply to first? I'm in retail and if I absolutely had to I guess I'd apply to Walmart, but it's probably the last place that I'd drop off an application...and then it would only be if no where else in town would take me. Not only that if I did get one of the jobs that was way down the list I'd constantly be trying to get out of that job and into a better one. So at that point if many people act that way who will they be left with? The teachers that have no other choice for whatever reason. I think this school just downgraded their attractiveness as an employer in a big way. And they certainly wouldn't get anyone moving their to take that job unless they were really desperate.

 

[FireDancer]

It wasn't these teachers that failed. These students came to them unable to read or understand math. I haven't read anything about the superintendent doing anything with the staff and/or students that feed into this high school.

We don't even know if the test scores that are being compared are for the same students. I read (I don't remember the link) that this is an area that has a large transient population.

Yes, the teachers who taught them before also failed them. The kids also failed themselves by not seeking the additional information they weren't given. The parents failed them by not getting more involved in their educations. A lot of people failed them.

Sometimes the people who are blamed for failure and are let go aren't the ones that ultimately caused the failure. There are a lot of scapegoats in the corporate world too. Often times the poor choices made by a board or executive get blamed on the people below them executing their poor decisions.

It happens everywhere, not just in under performing schools in RI.

 

[TheDisneyGirl02]

Well, that sure would help the school numbers look better...just keep the kids who care enough to do well. Up to half can be hired back. Altho, I wouldn't be surprised if they attempt to make a point by allowing the new teachers to flounder. So you're saying that the new grads who might be applying for these teachering jobs are expecting to get FAR more than the $70 - $80,000/year of the fired teachers? Even without the state of the economy, I can't believe they'd expect that. And what if they did "expect" FAR more in compensation? They'd be you-know-what out of luck. I would hesitate to go work there not out of a fear of getting fired, but out of a fear of some form of retaliation by the union/fired teachers/fired teachers hired back. I'm sure that "inexperienced teachers or plain old bad ones" aren't the only teachers not currently working in RI.

I wasn't saying that schools shouldn't educate the kids who don't care, but it's something that does need to be taken into consideration. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't force it to drink - that saying applies in this situation. Instead of just blaming the teachers, I think that the entire picture needs to be examined...however since only the teachers can be fired, that is what ended up happening in this situation.

When I was talking about kids out of college, I wasn't referring to education majors, I was speaking about kids in general. Since teacher's salaries are public knowledge, the prospective teachers will know approximately how much they will be getting paid. It's the kids who are fresh out of college going into what some people call 'the real world' who expect much more. I believe the person I was referring to in my previous post was a business/marketing major. I remembered being shocked when she told me how much she expected to make when she graduated.

Not all kids are like that - I didn't graduate college expecting a lot - heck, my first job I earned $10 an hour and I thought that was so much money...now that I've been around a little longer, I see that $10 isn't that much. Can you live on it? Yes, but it's not as much as I thought it was when I was a fresh-faced college grad.

 

[eliza61]

Many of the parents are poor and/or immigrants and/or absent. If you've got a plan that works so well in your high poverty/high achieving school with parent involvement, by all means, share it. I'm not saying this is in any way a good situation or that there are any easy solutions. No matter how it turns out, there will still be blame...some of it created to fit certain arguments.

I'm going to a soccer tournament in March, and some of our players are from CF High School. I'm curious to hear their take on it.

I think this statement is exactly what I find upsetting about the firings. There is no plan. We have got to stop with this "magic bullet/one size fits all" mentality of fixing problems. So what, They make the school day longer and get 80 new teachers who will have lunch with the kids and whammo graduation rates just jump to 90%. Kids see they are getting new teachers and say "ooh let's all go to school now, it's sooo much better"?
Has anyone heard of what will happen next year to these kids? What's that plan? I've been looking and I sure can't find one mention of it? Have they looked into why these kids are not showing up, why they are coming into h.s. so absymally prepared?
You're right 50% of the kids starting freshmen year not finishing is pathetic so did some one even bother to find out what's happening to these kids? Or was it, humm we have to get our test scores up nothing else matters?

Like I said, I was born and raised in the "hood" (Harlem, NY) I thank god daily that I had a mom and dad who lived by the creed of "you will get a good education". I'm old so my parents had no problem choking the life out of me and my siblings if they even thought for a nanosecond we cut school.

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

I wasn't saying that schools shouldn't educate the kids who don't care, but it's something that does need to be taken into consideration. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't force it to drink - that saying applies in this situation. Instead of just blaming the teachers, I think that the entire picture needs to be examined...however since only the teachers can be fired, that is what ended up happening in this situation.

I don't think the entire picture ISN'T being looked at, nor that all the blame is being put on the teachers. The city is well aware of the problems there...high percentage of minorities, poverty, drugs, absentee parents. It's just that this particular portion of it...the teachers...is what's making the news now, because the teachers' union chose not to accept what was offered.

But to suggest, even vaguely kidding around, to "fire" the kids that don't care...that situation already exists in the "dropout rate". And just having the kids get out of the school is part of the problem, not the solution.

When I was talking about kids out of college, I wasn't referring to education majors, I was speaking about kids in general. Since teacher's salaries are public knowledge, the prospective teachers will know approximately how much they will be getting paid. It's the kids who are fresh out of college going into what some people call 'the real world' who expect much more. I believe the person I was referring to in my previous post was a business/marketing major. I remembered being shocked when she told me how much she expected to make when she graduated.

If the college grads now, who majored in education, don't have a clue that they're not going to make as much as maybe an engineer, then they haven't been paying attention. To make a blanket statement that college grads in general expect to make more than these teachers make, just doesn't fit the situation.

I think this statement is exactly what I find upsetting about the firings. There is no plan. We have got to stop with this "magic bullet/one size fits all" mentality of fixing problems. So what, They make the school day longer and get 80 new teachers who will have lunch with the kids and whammo graduation rates just jump to 90%. Kids see they are getting new teachers and say "ooh let's all go to school now, it's sooo much better"?

Has anyone heard of what will happen next year to these kids? What's that plan? I've been looking and I sure can't find one mention of it? Have they looked into why these kids are not showing up, why they are coming into h.s. so absymally prepared?

You're right 50% of the kids starting freshmen year not finishing is pathetic so did some one even bother to find out what's happening to these kids? Or was it, humm we have to get our test scores up nothing else matters?

Like I said, I was born and raised in the "hood" (Harlem, NY) I thank god daily that I had a mom and dad who lived by the creed of "you will get a good education". I'm old so my parents had no problem choking the life out of me and my siblings if they even thought for a nanosecond we cut school.

If you don't think there should be "a plan", then what should happen??? I mean...whatever they do is "a plan", so I'm not sure what you mean. Having "a plan" is not synonymous with anyone thinking it's a magic solution.

I don't think there's a single solitary person involved in this, directly or indirectly, who thinks that the changes they are trying to implement is a magic bullet/one size fits/whammo anything, nor are the kids going to suddenly and excitedly think school is so much better now. I mean...seriously. Just because THIS is what is being discussed, here and on the news...the teachers' firing...doesn't mean they are ignoring all the other problems and how to fix them.

I named the reasons why, it would seem to make sense, kids aren't going to school, or why they're doing poorly. Lots of immigrants. ESL. Poverty. Drugs. Parents who don't speak English. Absentee fathers. And teen pregnancy too, I'm sure. Obviously, in any city/town with those and other problems, issues need to be addressed that affect youth and education, and no, I don't know to what extent it is. None of that is going to change overnight either. Perhaps teachers eating lunch with the kids and developing a rapport with them would HELP. And I'll pipe in before you do...NO, I don't think it's THE cure-all for the situation. Nor the only action that should be taken. Helpful tho? I think it could be.

And I seriously doubt anyone said "humm we have to get our test scores up nothing else matters" either. Please.

That's wonderful you had two parents at home who cared about you and your education, despite where you grew up. There seems to be a lot of that missing in CF.

 

[golfgal]

We are talking apples and oranges - I am a director - there is never a time in which I am not on call. I work every night. I work every weekend.

That said, I have had many jobs leading up to this one in which I worked long hours without compensation. I have had jobs completely change over time, and those changes resulted in different hours, different responsibilities, etc. So, yes, I have been asked to make similar changes without additional compensation.

These teachers were not asked to do so. They were offered a very fair sum for their additional work ($30/hr). They refused. They got exactly what I would have received had I refused the changes - fired. That's life in the big city.

Ok but teachers are also already working nights and weekends without pay and then they ask them to put in MORE time???

Ahh, back to assigning blame...

Edited - I can't understand how this boils down to blame for some of you. The blame should be shared amongst all who failed the children - teachers, parents, and the kids themselves. The whole system is broken. The parents and kids can't be fired. They can't be forced to change. But the teachers can. When they refused to change, they lost their jobs.

I don't see the point is discussing blame. It is fruitless...

THIS WHOLE ISSUE IS ABOUT BLAME---the teachers are being blamed for the poor performance of the kids, then asked to work even more then they already do for a pointless "solution" to the problem only to find they will all be fired anyway when the test scores come out next year and they aren't any better.

I think this statement is exactly what I find upsetting about the firings. There is no plan. We have got to stop with this "magic bullet/one size fits all" mentality of fixing problems. So what, They make the school day longer and get 80 new teachers who will have lunch with the kids and whammo graduation rates just jump to 90%. Kids see they are getting new teachers and say "ooh let's all go to school now, it's sooo much better"?
Has anyone heard of what will happen next year to these kids? What's that plan? I've been looking and I sure can't find one mention of it? Have they looked into why these kids are not showing up, why they are coming into h.s. so absymally prepared?
You're right 50% of the kids starting freshmen year not finishing is pathetic so did some one even bother to find out what's happening to these kids? Or was it, humm we have to get our test scores up nothing else matters?

Like I said, I was born and raised in the "hood" (Harlem, NY) I thank god daily that I had a mom and dad who lived by the creed of "you will get a good education". I'm old so my parents had no problem choking the life out of me and my siblings if they even thought for a nanosecond we cut school.

BRAVO!!!!!!!!!!


MaryAnnDVC---I don't have a plan, I don't know what would work except that I think this money may be better spent educating the parents on the importance of getting a good education. In Minnesota we have a good plan for those that take advantage of it, Early Childhood Family Education, ECFE. They are fabulous classes for parents. Every district in the state has this but it is the same old, same old, those that need it the most don't use it. We have had "plans" in place for 20+ years to educate low income kids--Head Start being the most widely known. THEY DON"T HELP when the kid shows up to school not haven eaten since lunch the day before, after getting 6 hours of sleep and maybe knowing where mom and dad even are. The solution HAS to start with the parents or anything done at school will get undone at home.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

Ok but teachers are also already working nights and weekends without pay and then they ask them to put in MORE time???

Trust me, you can't put in more time. As much - absolutely, but you can't work more than always...

THIS WHOLE ISSUE IS ABOUT BLAME---the teachers are being blamed for the poor performance of the kids, then asked to work even more then they already do for a pointless "solution" to the problem only to find they will all be fired anyway when the test scores come out next year and they aren't any better...

Wow! Pointless solution - fired anyway...

I guess to you it is all about blame because you have given up on that community. Fortunately others have not. They are trying to turn this around...

 

[daughtersrus]

Trust me, you can't put in more time. As much - absolutely, but you can't work more than always...

Please explain? Are you always working?

Wow! Pointless solution - fired anyway...



I guess to you it is all about blame because you have given up on that community. Fortunately others have not. They are trying to turn this around...

Blame was set by the Gallo when she blamed these teachers for the lack of success of these student. Do you honestly believe that if these teachers agreed to the terms that she set forth and that test scores didn't improve that they would still have a job the following year? If Gallo's plan doesn't work, should she be fired next year?

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

Please explain? Are you always working?

My job has no hours. I am connected at home every minute, I have my work laptop next to me as I type this. Not complaining - it is a part of the job, and I love my job. Honestly, I would do it for free...

Blame was set by the Gallo when she blamed these teachers for the lack of success of these student. Do you honestly believe that if these teachers agreed to the terms that she set forth and that test scores didn't improve that they would still have a job the following year? If Gallo's plan doesn't work, should she be fired next year?

If it had not worked they would be right where they are now. How is that worse than being there NOW?

 

[golfgal]

Trust me, you can't put in more time. As much - absolutely, but you can't work more than always...

Wow! Pointless solution - fired anyway...

I guess to you it is all about blame because you have given up on that community. Fortunately others have not. They are trying to turn this around...

She is not trying to turn it around, she is trying to save her OWN job by making it look like she is doing something--HUGE difference. I have NOT given up on the community (not that I have any connection to that community what so ever) I have simply pointed out that their solution is WORTHLESS because it is NOT addressing the problem. You can't fix something without fixing the problem. They can could hire the top 80 teachers EVER in the world and they STILL won't have good test scores if the kids don't show up to learn.

 

[golfgal]

My job has no hours. I am connected at home every minute, I have my work laptop next to me as I type this. Not complaining - it is a part of the job, and I love my job. Honestly, I would do it for free...



If it had not worked they would be right where they are now. How is that worse than being there NOW?

Because the teachers are smart enough to know that if they add 15 hours/week to their already 60 hour work week, it isn't going to make a difference and it gets to the point where it just isn't worth your health and family life.... I am sure your family just LOVES you working as much as you do .

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

Because the teachers are smart enough to know that if they add 15 hours/week to their already 60 hour work week, it isn't going to make a difference and it gets to the point where it just isn't worth your health and family life....

Choices - we all make them. So long as we agree - this was a choice.

I am sure your family just LOVES you working as much as you do .

Let's just say that I find a way to love and be loved. We are very close. They wish that I traveled less, but our love is sufficient to get us past these things. Thankfully, I am married to the finest woman on this planet...

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

She is not trying to turn it around, she is trying to save her OWN job by making it look like she is doing something--HUGE difference. I have NOT given up on the community (not that I have any connection to that community what so ever) I have simply pointed out that their solution is WORTHLESS because it is NOT addressing the problem. You can't fix something without fixing the problem. They can could hire the top 80 teachers EVER in the world and they STILL won't have good test scores if the kids don't show up to learn.

You could be 100% correct. Neither of us has any way of knowing...

 

[kpm76]

Not according to the link previously posted. So maybe it was $90/day that they were asking for but Gallo was only offering $30/day.

The school district offered to pay teachers extra for getting training over the summer and for other professional development time during the school year, Gallo said. But she did not have the money to raise salaries for extending the school day or for making teachers eat lunch with students once a week.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100226/ap_on_re_us/us_entire_school_fired_17

No, it was $90/hour that the union demanded and the district was offering $30/hour. I posted a few links and showed the math a few pages back.