Looking for a teaching job? Rhode Island is hiring 74 at one school!

[DisneyBamaFan]

The poster may not have aimed a comment at one person, but it was aimed at an entire group of people. To me that's an attack. Saying that somebody isn't professional because he/she belongs to a union is certainly an attack in my book - a personal attack, maybe not, but an attack none-the-less.

I'm sorry if you disagree, but that is the way that I feel.

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. But if we use that thin reasoning, almost any negative comment can be perceived as an attack. This board would be devoid of members...

 

[TheDisneyGirl02]

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. But if we use that thin reasoning, almost any negative comment can be perceived as an attack. This board would be devoid of members...

True, but there is a point where you can insult an entire group of people with one comment. Doesn't have to be said directly to you, but it doesn't mean that it doesn't hurt any less.


If somebody accused you of not being professional in whatever your given profession is, would that upset you? I'm not saying that by any means, but I'm just asking for your opinion.

 

[shrubber]

Professionals work to get the job done right. Teachers stopped being professional the minute they join the union, then they become Labor.
As labor,they were doing a lousy job, and now are out on their can. I say hooray for the superintendant.

Probably my post being recalled here.
If anyone takes offense, sorry I guess....
The thought expressed is that when you join a Labor union, you become Labor.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

True, but there is a point where you can insult an entire group of people with one comment. Doesn't have to be said directly to you, but it doesn't mean that it doesn't hurt any less.


If somebody accused you of not being professional in whatever your given profession is, would that upset you? I'm not saying that by any means, but I'm just asking for your opinion.

If they knew me it would. If they didn't, absolutely not. I mean, how would they make that judgement? It would be like that mother in the other thread being called out as a bad parent for letting her child go to a public bathroom by herself. The drive by insult is meaningless unless you let it become otherwise - even if it is annoying.

The internet requires a thicker skin because general jabs are not personal, but can be taken personally all too easily...

 

[kpm76]

True, but there is a point where you can insult an entire group of people with one comment. Doesn't have to be said directly to you, but it doesn't mean that it doesn't hurt any less.


If somebody accused you of not being professional in whatever your given profession is, would that upset you? I'm not saying that by any means, but I'm just asking for your opinion.

I certainly don't think that all people who belong to unions are unprofessional. Heck, I was a former union member myself, though not by choice. My government position was unionized and I had no choice. This is not intended to union bash, but it's important to understand that unions and the power they have varies state to state. In RI, I have said before, they are quite powerful. With regard to the Central Falls situation, I firmly believe the union failed the teachers. The demands placed on the district were outrageous and unattainable and instead of compromising they stuck by their original proposal and in the end, the teachers lost.

 

[C.Ann]

Considering the state of our economy, I think these unionized teachers made a very, very foolish decision.. There are times in life when "half a loaf is better than none" - 2010 is one of those times..

I hope they have plenty of savings; aren't upside down with their homes; and will be able to afford health insurance for themselves and their families - while hoping and praying they can find new jobs..

 

[hentob]

I love the bolded part. What does that have to do with good/bad teachers?

It actually shows me that Ms. Barrett should NOT be a teacher



"Well, go ahead, tell the teacher, go ahead tell the principal, what they gonna do?" "You don't hear nobody here saying, 'Well, go ahead, tell Mr. Cowling, what he gonna do?' They don't say that here."

 

[TheDisneyGirl02]

Probably my post being recalled here.
If anyone takes offense, sorry I guess....
The thought expressed is that when you join a Labor union, you become Labor.

May I ask why you feel this way? Why do you feel that if you join a union that you are no longer professional? Have you had a PERSONAL experience that makes you feel this way or are you just lumping all union works together simply because they are a member of a certain group?

 

[TheDisneyGirl02]

I certainly don't think that all people who belong to unions are unprofessional. Heck, I was a former union member myself, though not by choice. My government position was unionized and I had no choice. This is not intended to union bash, but it's important to understand that unions and the power they have varies state to state. In RI, I have said before, they are quite powerful. With regard to the Central Falls situation, I firmly believe the union failed the teachers. The demands placed on the district were outrageous and unattainable and instead of compromising they stuck by their original proposal and in the end, the teachers lost.

It does vary state by state, I completely understand that. I also believe that the union failed the teachers in this case. Instead of working against each other, BOTH sides should be working together to solve the problem. I don't think firing 74 teachers was the best way to solve the problem. My sister has been a teacher for 8 years so she has experience under her belt. However, there are still times that she needs to consult with other teachers with what is best for the students. By firing 74 experienced teachers, I think this is going to end up making the situation even worse than what it was before.

 

[kpm76]

It does vary state by state, I completely understand that. I also believe that the union failed the teachers in this case. Instead of working against each other, BOTH sides should be working together to solve the problem. I don't think firing 74 teachers was the best way to solve the problem. My sister has been a teacher for 8 years so she has experience under her belt. However, there are still times that she needs to consult with other teachers with what is best for the students. By firing 74 experienced teachers, I think this is going to end up making the situation even worse than what it was before.

You're right, it was not the best solution but unfortunately it was the only option. According to federal regs, under performing schoos can adopt a Transformation Model (which the union rejected) or a Turnaround Model (which is where you start from scratch so to speak). This was not a arbitrary decision but guided by statute. However, up to 50% of the "fired" teachers can and probably will be re-hired so the high school will not be left with 74 brand new teachers.

 

[FireDancer]

Unions become a problem when they form an agenda that differs from their members' agenda. It isn't only unions that have this problem of course, and I'm sure all of them don't have it, but far too often unions stop being about the union members and start to be about the union.

I have no knowledge of what the meetings were like in this case but if the union decided to vote against the proposal based on what is best for it as opposed to these 74 teachers it failed them. Far too often something like this is done not because it is best for the 74 involved but because they think it will set some sort of precedent. That would be putting the agenda of the union over that of these 74 members.

In that case it would have been better for the teachers to decide for themselves what they would like. If 30 took the deal and 44 rejected it there would be 30 more people in RI with jobs.

As for the who's fault is it...a combination of the parents, the teachers, and the students. Some of the responsibility has to come from self motivation. Knowing that what you do in class today will effect your life 20 or 30 years down the road. I thought that many a time when sitting in a Bio class I knew I would never use. But I didn't stop going.

Unfortunately the school can fire the parents and there are limits to what you can do to the students. In that case you apply the pertinent part of the serenity prayer...change the things you can not accept (in this case that means the staff) and accept the things you can not change (in this case that means lazy or absent parenting).

 

[TheDisneyGirl02]

You're right, it was not the best solution but unfortunately it was the only option. According to federal regs, under performing schoos can adopt a Transformation Model (which the union rejected) or a Turnaround Model (which is where you start from scratch so to speak). This was not a arbitrary decision but guided by statute. However, up to 50% of the "fired" teachers can and probably will be re-hired so the high school will not be left with 74 brand new teachers.

I hope for the student's sake that they rehire 50% of the experienced teachers.

It's amazed me in the last couple of years of the number of people saying that schools are failing and how the government has stepped in to 'save' them. Are schools worse off than they were years ago, maybe - but I don't think it's always the fault of the teachers. What makes me laugh is that some government official who probably has no experience in a classroom sits in an office somewhere and says that THIS is how all of the schools will be fixed. It's not that easy. What will help one school may not help another school. There are no cookie cutter solutions.

I hear stories about children who are trying their hardest at school and are making progress but are not on grade level - nor will they probably ever be. There is no way that in a few short years those students will be 100% proficient. It's just not going to happen. It's sad but it's just life.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

You're right, it was not the best solution but unfortunately it was the only option. According to federal regs, under performing schoos can adopt a Transformation Model (which the union rejected) or a Turnaround Model (which is where you start from scratch so to speak). This was not a arbitrary decision but guided by statute. However, up to 50% of the "fired" teachers can and probably will be re-hired so the high school will not be left with 74 brand new teachers.

Think about it - the union isn't hurt at all. They will get their membership back. The teachers who blindly followed the advice of this union when the union had no skin in the game should be ashamed of themselves...

 

[kpm76]

Think about it - the union isn't hurt at all. They will get their membership back. The teachers who blindly followed the advice of this union when the union had no skin in the game should be ashamed of themselves...

You're absolutely right! Not only will they get their membership back, but they themselves were never in a position to lose a great paying job with top notch benefits. Shameful.

 

[shrubber]

May I ask why you feel this way? Why do you feel that if you join a union that you are no longer professional? Have you had a PERSONAL experience that makes you feel this way or are you just lumping all union works together simply because they are a member of a certain group?

Perhaps this is quibbiling over semantics. But the NEA is the largest labor union in the US.

 

[C.Ann]

You're absolutely right! Not only will they get their membership back, but they themselves were never in a position to lose a great paying job with top notch benefits. Shameful.

Sad, isn't it?

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

True, but there is a point where you can insult an entire group of people with one comment. Doesn't have to be said directly to you, but it doesn't mean that it doesn't hurt any less.


If somebody accused you of not being professional in whatever your given profession is, would that upset you? I'm not saying that by any means, but I'm just asking for your opinion.

Not to get into semantics--but noone on this thread posted that they were specifically in a union.

The "union" is a very important part of this story.

Talking about such a group in general terms is not "personal".


I personally do not like unions. I went to a school in a district that had them. They were on strike for three weeks. I was new to the school, it was a very prestigious public school and it soured my overall success that year. We had "scabs" who came in, but of course they could not teach at the level expected fo the striking teachers. When they later came back, catching up was awful. But they got what they wanted/deserved, right? And then the students were left with the results--even higher expectations than before to make up for their 3 week strike.

Unions had their place. I'm not in a comfortable place to agree that they have a place in our society anymore.

In this story--it resulted in these teachers terminating themselves. The union did not help them much at all. They pushed for what they felt was deserved with little regard to what perhaps was right.

But unions had been intended for "labor" hence "labor unions".

To have a negative opinion of what they are or to properly refer to its membership in that way--doesn't mean that they are being referred to as unprofessional.

It isn't a attack--and it certainly isn't personal.

You may have taken it personally. But that doesn't make it a personal attack.

 

[TheZue]

They aren't going to attract great people if they've proven they are willing to fire absolutely everyone regardless of their personal work history. There is no way I'd work for any employer that did that. In fact both my husband and I have avoided even applying for jobs that come up more than once every year or two. They are going to attract teachers that have no other alternative, ie the bottom of the barrel.

 

[Jen414]

Not to get into semantics--but noone on this thread posted that they were specifically in a union.

I have not posted since the beginning of the thread, but I'll stand up and say that I'm in a union. I'm not sure that getting rid of everybody was the answer, but clearly something had to be done. However, as I don't have first-hand knowledge of this school, it's hard for me to say what should be done.

 

[TheZue]

Not to get into semantics--but noone on this thread posted that they were specifically in a union.

The "union" is a very important part of this story.

Talking about such a group in general terms is not "personal".


I personally do not like unions. I went to a school in a district that had them. They were on strike for three weeks. I was new to the school, it was a very prestigious public school and it soured my overall success that year. We had "scabs" who came in, but of course they could not teach at the level expected fo the striking teachers. When they later came back, catching up was awful. But they got what they wanted/deserved, right? And then the students were left with the results--even higher expectations than before to make up for their 3 week strike.

Unions had their place. I'm not in a comfortable place to agree that they have a place in our society anymore.

In this story--it resulted in these teachers terminating themselves. The union did not help them much at all. They pushed for what they felt was deserved with little regard to what perhaps was right.

But unions had been intended for "labor" hence "labor unions".

To have a negative opinion of what they are or to properly refer to its membership in that way--doesn't mean that they are being referred to as unprofessional.

It isn't a attack--and it certainly isn't personal.

You may have taken it personally. But that doesn't make it a personal attack.

I think the balance of power in government unions is really skewed. At least in a private employer the union KNOWS that if they go too far their business is going to go under, and the employer knows if their union is out too long their business is going to go under. In government situations both sides whine at the voters instead of trying to find an economically feasible balance, and both sides know the government isn't going anywhere.