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[daughtersrus]

Can I just point out that this school had a 48% graduation rate? The teachers wanted $90/hr to consider trying to be better than 48% successful at their jobs. Hooray for the board.

Do you have a link showing that they wanted $90/hour to "consider"?

If the teachers are responsible for the success of the students, the principal should be responsible for the success of his/her teachers. The superintendent should also be responsible for the success of his/her principals.

Why aren't the principal and superintendent being fired for not doing their jobs successfully?

 

[kpm76]

Years ago, in RI (Warwick) there was a teacher strike that I think left a bad taste in many RI people's mouths. The teachers were ordered back to work (horrors!), but basically held the students and their parents hostage. On parents/teachers conference night, they covered student work on their bulletin boards. They refused to write college recommendations for seniors. Some were jailed for refusing to return to work when ordered by a judge. I remember a teacher friend of mine being horrified that teachers would be jailed (for breaking the law? ). She talked about how much her friend...an engineer...made, and it was so much more than HER, and SHE taught CHILDREN! Then she sheepishly admitted that based on the time actually worked...inside and outside the "office", she made more per hour than he did. Are you serious?? Are you salaried? I would hope that time outside the classroom...meetings, additional training, etc...would happen during the summer and NOT during the school year, with a substitute who sometimes is doing nothing more than babysitting. During the school year, teachers should be IN THE CLASSROOM doing their jobs. There were days I allowed my kids to come home from school during the day because there were so few teachers in for one reason or another.

I was a Junior in a Warwick high school the year that strike happened and let me tell you, I remember how horrific it was to be in school that entire year. It got so bad that teachers were threatening to not chaperone the Prom. Those of us on the Prom committee decided that we'd rather ask our parents to chaperone than risk not having one at all. I had Senior friends that missed out on early decision because we were not in school and they could not get their applications done. I want to say we went to school for a few days the third week in Sept, then we were out again until at least mid-Oct. Awful and disgraceful.....

The situation with Central Falls is not entirely the teachers' fault. And I will maintain that I am sure many of the teachers would have been willing to accept what was offered but were denied that opportunity. Yes, they work hard and they work in the poorest school district in the state. They have next to no support from parents. However, they all make at least $70,000 and some as much as $78,000. That's A LOT of money and very well compensated, even for having to teach in a under performing school.

BTW, $90/hour to tutor, attend professional development etc is obscene and quite frankly, laughable

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I'm confused. Are you saying that the students and their parents are have no responsibility in whether they learn or not because they go to public school?

No--but parents took a back seat to educators when the government took over.

Mom and dad didn't have to teach anything. In fact, mom and dad couldn't really teach much.

You listen to stories of elders or perhaps even remember your youth. I could be educated without too much reliance on my parents to "reteach" or "help me do" my homework. Now, I think they could have had instilled a better work ethic by allowing for homework time or maybe going over spelling words every once in a while--but NOTHING like what I hear today. Between the mutlitude of grade school projects, hefty assignments--the parents practically have to sit and hold their child's hand or the child isn't going to do well.

This is private or public.

This is not how it used to be. Or maybe it was and my parents just sucked.

But 10 schools in 4 different states, I still managed despite what my parents did not provide. I wasn't wealthy either. And one might say that I lived the life of a Jeff Foxworthy joke.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Do you have a link showing that they wanted $90/hour to "consider"?

If the teachers are responsible for the success of the students, the principal should be responsible for the success of his/her teachers. The superintendent should also be responsible for the success of his/her principals.

Why aren't the principal and superintendent being fired for not doing their jobs successfully?

I think they should be--or at the very least, fired next year if the situation is worse.

Anyone remember Summer School with Mark Harmon. They didn't want to give the teacher tenure b/c all the kids had to pass. However, the kids had significant improvement and the kids and teachers faught for his job. He felt like a failure, and from a grading standpoint he was. But there was significant improvement.

Of course that is a fictional movie where a PE coach is forced to teach English.

 

[shrubber]

Which ones? From what I read on CNN, this area has a very high transient population. Are you going to go to the schools where these children came from and demand that the fire their teachers?

When I was a youngin they held kids back if they didn't learn the required material. Unless something has changed, that right there proves that these teachers are not doing their jobs.

 

[daughtersrus]

Of course that is a fictional movie where a PE coach is forced to teach English.

In this case, all of the teachers are being fired including those that teach PE, Art, Music...

 

[daughtersrus]

When I was a youngin they held kids back if they didn't learn the required material. Unless something has changed, that right there proves that these teachers are not doing their jobs.

How does this prove that the teachers are not doing their jobs?

 

[shrubber]

How does this prove that the teachers are not doing their jobs?

If the kids got to the 11th grade and only 7% passed math, some teacher did not do there job, no?

 

[kpm76]

Do you have a link showing that they wanted $90/hour to "consider"?

If the teachers are responsible for the success of the students, the principal should be responsible for the success of his/her teachers. The superintendent should also be responsible for the success of his/her principals.

Why aren't the principal and superintendent being fired for not doing their jobs successfully?

Here's is the link:

http://newsblog.projo.com/2010/02/money-a-sticking-point-in-tran.html

Some have argued that per diem means per day but it's clear in this case it's per hour. The reporter misused the term per diem.

 

[ZephyrHawk]

Fireman are paid to put out fires, if half of the buidings in town burn to the ground, I would think seriuosly about replacing the fire department.

Nurses are paid to treat the sick. If the patients all end up with a staph infection, I would not go to that hospital.

Police are paid to prevent crime and catch criminals. If my town starts to look like downtown Detroit, I would say that the police are not doing their job.

If only 7% of the kids in the school are proficient at math, the teachers shoulder the responsibility.

Detroit cocks its eyebrow in amusement at poster from Cleveland.

 

[shrubber]

Detroit cocks its eyebrow in amusement at poster from Cleveland.

Hah! I was born in Detroit. Go Lions ...( somewhere else )

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

You listen to stories of elders or perhaps even remember your youth. I could be educated without too much reliance on my parents to "reteach" or "help me do" my homework. Now, I think they could have had instilled a better work ethic by allowing for homework time or maybe going over spelling words every once in a while--but NOTHING like what I hear today. Between the mutlitude of grade school projects, hefty assignments--the parents practically have to sit and hold their child's hand or the child isn't going to do well.

This is private or public.

My parents never helped me with my homework, and I didn't help my kids. I always felt that what I needed to teach my kids was responsibility for their own work and their own actions. And many times over the years, I was frustrated KNOWING that some kids' projects were as good as they were because of an enormous amount of help from their parents. But it was always my belief that my kids' homework was just that. And they managed fine...great grades, and they're very independent. I think that's part of the reason my two DDs fared so well when they went off to college.

I knew parents who did ALL of their kids' college research and applications. I did none. What I did do was discuss what they were interested in, ask them what they were doing to research it, told them to let me know where and when they wanted to visit colleges and I'd go, discuss things to consider (big university vs small college, close to home vs farther away, etc), suggested ways to get more insight (talking to teachers, contacting former students from HS, etc) but first and foremost, it came from them. I think that was just the natural outcome of being 99% responsible for schoolwork. And I think that's what they need, as much as the education itself, to succeed after college.

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

I was a Junior in a Warwick high school the year that strike happened and let me tell you, I remember how horrific it was to be in school that entire year. It got so bad that teachers were threatening to not chaperone the Prom. Those of us on the Prom committee decided that we'd rather ask our parents to chaperone than risk not having one at all. I had Senior friends that missed out on early decision because we were not in school and they could not get their applications done. I want to say we went to school for a few days the third week in Sept, then we were out again until at least mid-Oct. Awful and disgraceful.....

It was horrible, and I was just an outsider looking in. I remember the desperation of seniors trying to get recommendations. I'd be LIVID if I were the parent of a senior (or any other grade, but esp seniors). Warwick seems to have a history of very contentious strikes. You couldn't pay me to live there and send my kids to their public schools. Too risky.

 

[eliza61]

my local news just reported that the state has closed the school and the students will be sent to various other schools.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

In this case, all of the teachers are being fired including those that teach PE, Art, Music...

I figured, I was just inserting some humor with bringing up that fictional movie.

As far as the extra-curriculars...it seems silly to fire them.

But let's think about it this way--if half the school can't pass a PE class? Gotta blame the teacher on that one. There's lack of discipline if he/she cannot get the students to even participate. Then that points to an even bigger problems of leadership (aka Prinicipal, Vice Principal, Deans)--to get the kids in line. But if I couldn't speak Spanish if I were in school in spain, the teacher need only to point to the track and do a mini jog for me to get that he/she wants me to run.

But we don't know b/c they fired everyone based on graduation rates and half the kids failing, but they don't really identify where the specific shortcomings are.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

You guys are beating this to death without discussing the real reason that these teachers were fired. It is really simple. The school has to be turned around. The administration put together a plan to turn it around. That plan required more work from the teachers at a fair rate ($30/hr). The teachers refused, demanding more money ($90/hr). The district cannot afford that rate, so the whole plan was scrapped and Plan B went into effect. The teachers knew that there was a real risk of Plan B if they didn't accept the conditions.

So, in a nutshell, the teachers quit.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

How does this prove that the teachers are not doing their jobs?

It proves that admin isn't.

Social promotion has increased over the years and in some cases teachers are not allowed to "fail" a student. His poor snowflake feelings may be hurt.

Now if a teacher is willfully concealing a student's lack of knowledge, then that is the teacher's fault.

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

But let's think about it this way--if half the school can't pass a PE class? Gotta blame the teacher on that one. There's lack of discipline if he/she cannot get the students to even participate. Then that points to an even bigger problems of leadership (aka Prinicipal, Vice Principal, Deans)--to get the kids in line. But if I couldn't speak Spanish if I were in school in spain, the teacher need only to point to the track and do a mini jog for me to get that he/she wants me to run.

A little off topic here, but I was SO not an athlete. I hated any sport that involved a ball. But when I was young PE was the same as other classes...you did what was being taught. In other words, there was baseball "classes" (a ball! ), volleyball "classes" (a ball! ), etc. Now, there are many more options. Somewhere along the line, I think they looked at Phys Ed in a different way...to get kids moving, and healthier. I would have been thrilled if I could have run around the track.

My point being...?? LOL Maybe...obviously...cities/towns like CF need to look at their approach with what they're dealing with. What approach they might come up with, I don't know. It's definitely a complicated situation.

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

You guys are beating this to death without discussing the real reason that these teachers were fired. It is really simple. The school has to be turned around. The administration put together a plan to turn it around. That plan required more work from the teachers at a fair rate ($30/hr). The teachers refused, demanding more money ($90/hr). The district cannot afford that rate, so the whole plan was scrapped and Plan B went into effect. The teachers knew that there was a real risk of Plan B if they didn't accept the conditions.

So, in a nutshell, the teachers quit.

To a large extent I agree, except that I don't think that the union and the teachers thought there was a real risk of "Plan B". I think they're truly shocked, as is everyone else.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

A little off topic here, but I was SO not an athlete. I hated any sport that involved a ball. But when I was young PE was the same as other classes...you did what was being taught. In other words, there was baseball "classes" (a ball! ), volleyball "classes" (a ball! ), etc. Now, there are many more options. Somewhere along the line, I think they looked at Phys Ed in a different way...to get kids moving, and healthier. I would have been thrilled if I could have run around the track.

My point being...?? LOL Maybe...obviously...cities/towns like CF need to look at their approach with what they're dealing with. What approach they might come up with, I don't know. It's definitely a complicated situation.

Hey--you and I must be twins.

I get that--but sports is something that can be taught without the lengthy discussion. Show and do.

I got A's in PE. It didn't make me an Olympian by any stretch of the imagination. If that was the litmus--I would have failed PE beginning in 3rd grade with that blessed rope climb.