long term maternity leave (debate)

[jmmom80]

Should I need maternity leave, I think I have paid in enough premiums to pay my salary for a year.

unless the ei tax was significantly more in the past than it is now, you probably haven't.

 

[Branwen]

Originally posted by jmmom80
unless the ei tax was significantly more in the past than it is now, you probably haven't.

But, I will not be having a child in the near future and I still have 30 years until retirement so by then, I'm sure that one year will have been paid for.

 

[maxie]

Originally posted by jrydberg
And what of those people who would never have children who would have to pay into such a system? Should they have to fund your maternity leave, and cover your job while you're gone and have to completely retrain you since you'd been gone so long that everything changed?

I returned to work after my 1 year mat leave 5 weeks ago. No one needed to retrain me. A year isn't that long. It only took a day or so to get up to speed. And the girl who replaced me was a brand new grad who 1.) got a year of experience 2.) will now herself qualify for EI until she finds something permenent 3.) has made contacts in the field.

 

[jrydberg]

But that's just it. It's not insurance. It's not a catchall. It is specifically for maternity leave. And in the case of maternity leave, it's fairly clear to me that it's not fair to a good number of people to have to contribute to such a system.

Insurance is required for automobiles in order to cover the cost of damages that may occur in the operation of the vehicle. Homeowner's insurance is required to cover the investment of the mortgage company should there be a catastrophic event.

Maternity leave is, in my view, completely different from insurance. I know for a fact that it will never benefit me. I don't need it and don't want it.

Why then should I have to put up with paying into it, covering for co-workers for extended periods of time, etc.?

 

[hpsauce]

Originally posted by jrydberg
But that's just it. It's not insurance. It's not a catchall. It is specifically for maternity leave.

Several people on this thread have explained that maternal and parental benefits are paid from employment insurance, which is NOT specifically for maternity leave.

So, you're wrong. It is insurance.

Back to your regularly scheduled thread.

 

[maxie]

Originally posted by jrydberg
Why then should I have to put up with paying into it, covering for co-workers for extended periods of time, etc.?

You don't have to you're American.

 

[jrydberg]

Just because it's taken out on the same line on the paycheck doesn't mean it's all the same.

Maternity leave may be paid for by the money from EI deductions, but that doesn't make it insurance. So I'm not wrong. It's not insurance.

Back to your regularly scheduled thread

 

[Chicago526]

Originally posted by Parkerpooh
Okay, this thread has really ticked me off! As a mother who just finished with my one year mat leave finds this "discussion disgusting and reminds me exactly why Canada will always be our home! I have paid my EI premiums for 13 years and definitely felt justified in using MY MONEY that was put there through 13 years of work to take a year off with my son so he can grow up being nurturing and well adjusted. I could not even imagine dumping my child in a daycare at 6 or 8 weeks of age! The child/parent bond is essential for the normal growth and health of the child's spirit and sense of self worth. I feel as a canadian woman that it is a terrible shame that americans do not have the same opportunities or want them. It is only the children that will suffer and your country in the long term. If I had chosen not to have children of my own I would have more than happy to pay my premiums for other mothers(or laid-off workers) to have that money aside in their time of need. I feel I would be contributing to society by ensuring children have the emotional connection with their parents so they too can grow up to be mature, responible law-abiding citizens. Although, perhaps that's what the difference between our 2 countries is, I ACTUALLY CARE ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS TO THOSE AROUND ME NOT JUST WHAT'S IN IT FOR ME,ME,ME!!!!!!Oh,well at least I can send my kids to public school knowing that some ill-adjusted kid won't come in with gun and blow them away!!!!(we have excellent gun laws as well, but that's a whole other debate!!) JENN

I agree, the more I read this thread, the nicer Canada sounds. Can I move in?

That said, you have to realize that Americans are raised to believe that you take care of yourself, don't expect anyone else to do it for you if you're not willing to (except for disaster/emergency type situations). That's why our government benifits are so stingy. They are designed to help keep people's heads above water for a short period of time, until they can get back on their feet. That's why the thought of paying a tax (and it is a tax!) so moms and dads can take paid time off is a little odd sounding to us. Here, that only happens if your company chooses to offer such a benifit. (and my company allows us to take our earned sick time as manternity if we so choose, so far I've got about 8 weeks of sick time saved up, I'm lucky and have good health so I dont' call in often).

Now, as a result, American's pay lower taxes, both personal a corporate. I supose we should then save that extra money for a rainey day, and/or donate it to charities that help the poor (and some do) but most of us just spend it. But again, it comes down to personal responsibility. If you don't save, and get laid off, that's your own dumb fault.

 

[talicskai]

I can see both sides of the debate however, I had 2 six month maternity leaves and I feel it was better not to put my children in daycare at such a young age. I decided to go back to work part time (after working hard for 10 years to get where I was). We sold a vehicle and lived in an older house with a $500 mortgage for 7 years so that I could be home with our kids. Two many families feel they have to have the big house and two new vehicles in the driveway. What they forget is that their kids will be gone in 18 years. That is the time to get the vehicles and the fancy house. Don't get me wrong. We have two decent vehicles (1999 and 2000 models) and our house is only 5 years old. However, my husband has a good job and I work part-time for our "fun" money. (DISNEY)
I would love to have had one year with each of our kids but the mandate was only 6 months at the time. Both DH and I pay into EI and I certainly don't begrudge the others who now get 1 year.
I can guarantee I will never use EI again for maternity leave but if I ever get cancer and my DH gets sick then we have something to fall back on.

Please stop the nasty comments to each other and have a civilized debate. If you can't, then find another thread. It's getting a little scary.

 

[Madi100]

I didn't take the time to read the other posts, dont' have time right now. But, I sometimes wonder if we looked at our country as more of a "family" if we would be producing more respectful children who don't like to blow schools up. I'm not saying that because parents work that their kids are messed up. But, I think that careers demand so much out of people that often times it is a daycare doing a lot of the parenting. I think if we lived in a society that allowed people to have a career, and still have family be #1, we might be a little better off. I'm not putting down people for having careers, so please don't take it that way. I'm pointing fingers at the companies that give people the guilt trips because they want to attend their daughter's afternoon program at school so they need to miss work. Or, if their son is sick that they don't feel guilty for leaving.

I've got two friends who have really good jobs. One is a small company and mostly women, and ran by a woman. She hired someone to come in and go and run errands for people so that after work they can go and spend time with their family. The other friend works for a Japanese owned company, and they have unlimited sick days. They don't want them to come to work sick. They don't want them to leave their kids home sick. They don't want them driving in bad weather.

So, to the OP question, it might be a little outlandish to cover pay for a year, but I can sure see how it might be healthy for our society if we put a little more thought into family with the career. And, again that comment is made to companies, not the parents.

 

[diz karen]

I find it so sad to hear people say they are not willing to pay for something because they do not think it directly benefits them.
It seems really selfish and narrow minded.
I am willing to put money into things that will help improve society.
I believe that putting money into Paternity leaves improves life for all! Even if you do not have children.

 

[Hedgie81677]

Madi100 very well put....

 

[Madi100]

Originally posted by jmmom80
you're certainly free to read it however you like, but facts are facts. they have built a system where they expect to get a year off with pay because they pay into they system. i don't want this country to go down that road where people expect government to solve all their problems for them.

I honestly laughed when I just read that. I have a SIL who got pregnant when she was 16. Then she got pregnant again when she was 20 or so. I'm not sure, but I THINK that she EXPECTED and LET the government pay for those babies. And, then when they lived in foster homes, I believe that she just was fine expecting someone else to foot the bill for that. Um, oh, yeah, when she decided about 15 different times to go back to school and become something great, I think she EXPECTED someone else to pay for that. And, let's not forget that the WHOLE time she was going to school and having babies and the rest of her life she was sitting around letting US pay for her living expenses. In fact, I dont know if anyone in DH's family has paid for anything in their life. They EXPECT someone else to do it. I'm sorry, but I honestly think that our welfare program allows people to let someone else solve their problem. That is something I've been paying into since I worked, and you can guarantee that I won't be using any of the services welfare offers. And, I don't think the program is right at all. We won't pay for a family to nurture their child, but we will pay for someone to sit and do NOTHING.

 

[damo]

Originally posted by diz karen
I find it so sad to hear people say they are not willing to pay for something because they do not think it directly benefits them.
It seems really selfish and narrow minded.
I am willing to put money into things that will help improve society.
I believe that putting money into Paternity leaves improves life for all! Even if you do not have children.

That is the basis of Canadian society. And I am proud of it.

Madi, what a nice post.

 

[jmmom80]

madi, i agree 100% with your assessment of the welfare system in this country. i have a sil that did the exact same thing, and it angered me to no end.

 

[soupy11]

Hard work and personal responsibility are the answer to most things, IMO.

I was just reading through this thread and this part stuck out. This is very true. Canadians are as hard working and responsible as Americans in most respects (except defense, we are more concerned with social services than military, a real legitimate concern for us). I would even say that in some respects, Canadians are more committed to personal responsibility than our great neighbors. I say this in regards to our difference in litigation. Up here we don't see the class action lawsuits, the frivolous claims that people make in order to get huge settlements. This is just a generalization and doesn't properly belong in this thread, but I wanted to make a point. We are totally different countries and cultures. We have a liberal slant towards most social institutions and the Americans have a Capitalist slant. No big deal, who's to say which is better?

 

[cdnmickeylover]

Ok, I've now read the entire thread. I'm Canadian and proud of it. I have one child and did not qualify for paid mat leave. I was a student at the time and hadn't worked for the required length of time. Did not have a problem with this, then or now. Did not expect the government to pay for me to go to school and have a child. I was married, he worked and he paid into the EI system.

I've never collected anything from the EI system and pray that I never will have to. Since my DS is now 18 I'm not having any more so collecting on Mat Leave isn't going to happen. Hopefully I will never lose my job and have to collect that way. Hopefully I will never be sick enough to have to collect EI either. Do I resent paying this tax/premium? Nope, not one little bit. Why? Because I know that if something awful happened it would be there to fall back on. Does this mean that I don't have savings too? Nope. Does this mean I don't take 'personal responsibility' for my actions? Nope. I trust my government to take my money and invest it back into society as a whole. I live in the society and want it to be the best that it can be.

I pay higher income taxes than people in the US do but I don't have to stress that if I become sick (or a member of my family does) that I will go bankrupt because of the medical bills.

If that's a socialist system I'm fine with it. I contribute a little bit for the good of all.

 

[grover]

Originally posted by jrydberg
Bottom line, it's not my responsibility to pay for the upbringing of others. My daughter is my responsibility -- no one else's.

Umm-if you are going to collect EI then you have to have paid into it for a certain mandatory amount of time...so how would someone else be paying?? You are getting your own money back.
G in W

 

[Debbie]

We are totally different countries and cultures. We have a liberal slant towards most social institutions and the Americans have a Capitalist slant. No big deal, who's to say which is better?

Aaaaahhhh. THAT is the crux of this "discussion". We are of a different culture, and that makes it hard (somewhat) to see the other side. I, too, am pleased and proud of my liberal slant, but I can allow you your beliefs (that's my culture, too! ). I want to do things that are for the good of society, and supporting families is one way. And I guess the venue for deciding that is the government....which is, after all, just people that we have elected to do what we want to be done. I know that all the good that we do when children are young, allows us to reap the benefits in later years.

We don't always agree, but the fact is, that we all want what is best for ourselves, our families, and our country. This works-usually-for us.

 

[DIZNYFAN]

Wow some passionate arguments in here I like it For those that say EI covers only mat leave WRONG it is for that but also covers lay offs and job loss etc. I am more than happy to pay into this I know I will never use the maternity side of it but I am sure as hell happy to know I have possibly helped another mother to use it with the money I contribute.