Long-Term Care Insurance

[jaye614]

Still haven't purchased it....does everyone think it's a good idea to have?

thank you...

 

[Art 1]

Yes, it's costly though.

 

[Bojo]

Yes; premiums are more the longer you wait.

 

[diz8297]

I am a business office manager in a nursing home. Frankly, I don't think it is unless you have significant assets. I e. Over $200k total. Private pay in a nursing home runs about $10,000 per month. Typically, long term care insurance will pay $100 to 150 per day. Which means you are still paying significantly out of pocket and will need Medicaid. Many nursing homes require you to submit the claims to the carrier and expect the patient to pay up front. Just food for thought. In 13 years of experience, I'm not impressed with any of them.

 

[PlutoPony]

For my mom, it was very much worth it. She paid ~ $1500/year premiums for maybe 12 years. We were finally able to use it when she went to an assisted living facility for residents who needed memory care assistance. It was expensive - like $7k+ /month and insurance maxed out at roughly half of that. She broke even in a year and it was a lot easier for me to cash flow $3500/month out of her assets rather than $7k.

Do not know how today's premiums make the cost/benefit play out. Look carefully at what it takes to qualify for the policy paying out, especially for assisted living.

 

[gwynne]

I am a business office manager in a nursing home. Frankly, I don't think it is unless you have significant assets. I e. Over $200k total. Private pay in a nursing home runs about $10,000 per month. Typically, long term care insurance will pay $100 to 150 per day. Which means you are still paying significantly out of pocket and will need Medicaid. Many nursing homes require you to submit the claims to the carrier and expect the patient to pay up front. Just food for thought. In 13 years of experience, I'm not impressed with any of them.

The numbers you quote may be typical for LTC purchased years ago. My elderly FIL's policy pays 100.00 a day, and I think he purchased it in the early 90's.

New policies are generally different. Ours is much more generous the numbers listed here, and includes increases for inflation. I would advice people to look at the numbers themselves. One other thing to consider, costs vary from state to state. It's good to know if you're in a high cost or more moderate cost area for assisted living or nursing homes.
If you ask me, we are glad we purchased it.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I sure hope so since I pay the premiums weekly. One good thing about ours, though, is that if we don't use it, we can get some of the money we put into it back.

My aunt had it and it was a godsend when she got Alzheimer's. (Which is what prompted me to get it.) It virtually paid for all of her care in an Alzheimer's unit, and then a nursing home. In fact, the nursing home charged less because she had it. Funny thing was, the only reason she'd gotten it was because her son's best friend sold insurance and sort of talked them into buying it. It was a good move for her. But things have changed in the industry. I know where I work, there is not even an option to buy it anymore. Ours probably won't go very far, but hopefully it will help if we need it. (And if not, we haven't lost much.)

 

[PlutoPony]

In my area, there aren't a lot of nursing home or specialized assisted living beds for Medicare / Medicaid, and waiting lists are lengthy. So being able to pay for this type care (with or without LT insurance) can very well be the difference between getting appropriate care and cobbling together care at home.

 

[antmaril]

I have it. It was first offered through my employer when I was about 40 (I am now 64). It was so cheap that it really was a no brainer. It's been 24 years, I am now retired and I still pay only $35 a month for it. I have increased the amount of coverage over the years and hopefully it will help pay some bills if I ever need it.

 

[eliza61]

The numbers you quote may be typical for LTC purchased years ago. My elderly FIL's policy pays 100.00 a day, and I think he purchased it in the early 90's.

New policies are generally different. Ours is much more generous the numbers listed here, and includes increases for inflation. I would advice people to look at the numbers themselves. One other thing to consider, costs vary from state to state. It's good to know if you're in a high cost or more moderate cost area for assisted living or nursing homes.
If you ask me, we are glad we purchased it.

Who do you have gwynee because I've been researching them over the last year and basically.

Op, I do not have a policy instead I purchased a combo life insurance policy with a long term care rider. I reevaluate about every two years.

so far I've looked into two major players, Genworth and AARP
Here are the problems I have had with them.
1) insanely expensive
2) at least a 3 month (90 day) "wait" period where you still have to pay the premium out of pocket before it kicks in. you may also see this called an elimination period
3) many policies "reimburse" payment. meaning some one has to pay first then submit the receipt and then get reimbursed.
4) premium prices skyrocket almost always more than the cost of inflation. I've haven't read one policy where when I turn 70 the prices increase almost 30%. that is a big concern for me. the older I get the greater the chance I'll need it and it seems the more likely I'll have to struggle to pay the premium.
5) inflation protection. that was an extra cost. so I buy a plan that pays 100 bucks in todays dollars. I wanted to make sure that once again in 20 or 30 years when inflation has hit, they actually pay 100 dollars.
I wish my employer offered a lti plan but they do not so I'm on the free market where it is ungodly expensive

 

[tvguy]

I am a business office manager in a nursing home. Frankly, I don't think it is unless you have significant assets. I e. Over $200k total. Private pay in a nursing home runs about $10,000 per month. Typically, long term care insurance will pay $100 to 150 per day. Which means you are still paying significantly out of pocket and will need Medicaid. Many nursing homes require you to submit the claims to the carrier and expect the patient to pay up front. Just food for thought. In 13 years of experience, I'm not impressed with any of them.

I dealt with this with my mom, who, on the advice of her financial adviser, purchased long term care insurance.
There are my observations.

First around here, the big push is away from nursing homes, to Residential Care Facilities for the Elderly. The difference is, a nursing home is an huge facility sometimes with hundreds of residents. A RCFE has a maximum of 6 residents in a home like setting, everyone has their own bedroom. A nursing home would have been about $6,000 a month for my mom, the RCFE was $4,200. My mom's LTC insurance paid $3,850 of that. The Cadillac of senior care homes run about $8,000 a month.

Second, and maybe you can speak to this DIZ297, the lack of knowledge of, and experience in dealing with LTC in the nursing home industry is shocking. My mom was in a rehab center that also did long term care. They seemed like they had rarely had to fill out the standard LTC forms. My mom's Doctor really had to ride the nursing home to fill out the forms to get the ball rolling to get her coverage started. The RCFE operator had never had a patient with LTC insurance before. And yes, I had to pre-pay each month's rent and submit a claim for reimbursement. And most policies require you to pay the first 90 days before coverage kicks in.

Third. The LTC insurance company had requirements that my attorney said were unnecessary, and illegal, at least in California I had Durable Power of Attorney for Medical. The LTC wanted POA because they said this was a financial transaction, not a medical one. My mom could not talk, but could respond to questions and it was clear she understood what this was, and was able to sign her name and satisfy all involved that she was doing.

Fourth. Medicaid. The universal comment from my mom's Doctors, and everyone I dealt with was, you do not ever want to put a loved one in a facility that takes Medicaid or Social Security.

My experience prompted me at age 55 to purchase LTC insurance. It can be customized in so many ways to get the coverage you want or premium you can afford. You can pick monthly benefit, inflation factors, life insurance components.
.

 

[tvguy]

Who do you have gwynee because I've been researching them over the last year and basically.

Op, I do not have a policy instead I purchased a combo life insurance policy with a long term care rider. I reevaluate about every two years.

so far I've looked into two major players, Genworth and AARP
Here are the problems I have had with them.
1) insanely expensive
2) at least a 3 month (90 day) "wait" period where you still have to pay the premium out of pocket before it kicks in. you may also see this called an elimination period
3) many policies "reimburse" payment. meaning some one has to pay first then submit the receipt and then get reimbursed.
4) premium prices skyrocket almost always more than the cost of inflation. I've haven't read one policy where when I turn 70 the prices increase almost 30%. that is a big concern for me. the older I get the greater the chance I'll need it and it seems the more likely I'll have to struggle to pay the premium.
5) inflation protection. that was an extra cost. so I buy a plan that pays 100 bucks in todays dollars. I wanted to make sure that once again in 20 or 30 years when inflation has hit, they actually pay 100 dollars.
I wish my employer offered a lti plan but they do not so I'm on the free market where it is ungodly expensive

I have Genworth. We got a discount because DW and I both signed up under their spousal option.
EVERY plan I have seen has a 90 day wait for benefits.
EVERY plan I have seen reimburses you.
Like I said, my premium is fixed forever. Premiums are suspended when benefits are being paid.
My policy has an inflation factor tied to the CPI.

My mom had Lincoln financial. It had no inflation factor, and it has a one time premium that was equal to the life insurance payout.

 

[eliza61]

I have Genworth. We got a discount because DW and I both signed up under their spousal option.
EVERY plan I have seen has a 90 day wait for benefits.
EVERY plan I have seen reimburses you.
Like I said, my premium is fixed forever. Premiums are suspended when benefits are being paid.
My policy has an inflation factor tied to the CPI.

My mom had Lincoln financial. It had no inflation factor, and it has a one time premium that was equal to the life insurance payout.

Thanks TV
Unfortunately those are two of the big reasons I'm self insuring. Im a widow so I don't get any discounts and the policy I priced with an inflation rider with Genworth was almost 1k a month and I'm under 60 in excellent health. I do reevaluate once a year. They did say premium was suspended but I would also have to pay upfront and submit for reimburse.

I'll double check Lincoln. Thanks for the info. I'm trying to find some reliable information on average length of stay in a nursing home. I've heard any where between 8 months and 2 years. My family history is one of good health until death. My dad died in his sleep at 85 at home with no major illnesses. His older sister is 100 this October and lives at home. Lol, like the stock market pay performance does not guarantee my future.

 

[gwynne]

Thanks TV
Unfortunately those are two of the big reasons I'm self insuring. Im a widow so I don't get any discounts and the policy I priced with an inflation rider with Genworth was almost 1k a month and I'm under 60 in excellent health. I do reevaluate once a year. They did say premium was suspended but I would also have to pay upfront and submit for reimburse.

I'll double check Lincoln. Thanks for the info. I'm trying to find some reliable information on average length of stay in a nursing home. I've heard any where between 8 months and 2 years. My family history is one of good health until death. My dad died in his sleep at 85 at home with no major illnesses. His older sister is 100 this October and lives at home. Lol, like the stock market pay performance does not guarantee my future.

Pretty much everything TV guy said is the same for us. Ours is through the Federal Employees plan.
I don't think you can really plan for everything. We purchased 3 years on both of us. It's not perfect, but in a difficult situation it would buy two to four-ish years, depending on how the $$ were spent.

 

[mnrose]

I have LTC insurance and I look at it as a way of protecting my assets. Long term care is insanely expensive.

The policy I have pays $250 a day, and that would make a BIG dent in any LTC facility. Maybe not 100%, but sure better than being private pay entirely OR having to depend on getting a Medicaid bed in a facility I may not want.

It costs me around $1000 a year, so not too bad (I got it when I was 53). Now, trying to find a policy for my husband is a different matter entirely. The cost is MUCH higher, for no apparent reason other than he is male (he is NOT a smoker, and is in good health...no issues whatsoever...takes ZERO medications). He is the same age as me, but we're looking a $5000-6000 a year for decent coverage.

So, our plan (honestly) is if he develops a need for LTC, we're divorcing. He'll get 1/2 the assets and I'll get 1/2. I'll visit him. But, I sure as heck don't want to run through a huge percentage of our joint assets paying for his care. He's in agreement with this plan, BTW, although honestly, I'd be shocked if he ends up in LTC other than possibly at the very, very end of his life (he's so dang healthy it's ridiculous....and still works a job where the vast majority of his co-workers could be his children or grandchildren).

 

[tvguy]

Thanks TV
Unfortunately those are two of the big reasons I'm self insuring. Im a widow so I don't get any discounts and the policy I priced with an inflation rider with Genworth was almost 1k a month and I'm under 60 in excellent health. I do reevaluate once a year. They did say premium was suspended but I would also have to pay upfront and submit for reimburse.

I'll double check Lincoln. Thanks for the info. I'm trying to find some reliable information on average length of stay in a nursing home. I've heard any where between 8 months and 2 years. My family history is one of good health until death. My dad died in his sleep at 85 at home with no major illnesses. His older sister is 100 this October and lives at home. Lol, like the stock market pay performance does not guarantee my future.

$1,000 a month is more than twice what we are paying to cover both of us. Average stay in a nursing home is 18 months. We bought 3 years coverage, $6,000 a month (3 years ago) with inflation increases.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Be careful. It's becoming more difficult to meet the criteria for benefits to be paid.

 

[diz8297]

Tvguy: you are correct. Nursing homes are not willing to wait for payments from ltc plans. Also there is enough paperwork to be done for carriers we are contracted with. frankly, this is an industry in crisis.

 

[eliza61]

Tvguy: you are correct. Nursing homes are not willing to wait for payments from ltc plans. Also there is enough paperwork to be done for carriers we are contracted with. frankly, this is an industry in crisis.

since yesterday I've been on line searching the top players in LTI. Genworth is the largest and seems to get the crappiest review. average 1 star out of 4 (at consumer report and forbes) the main gripe seems to be premiums increasing double digits, most jumping 37%.

this article is from March
http://www.investmentnews.com/artic...struggling-under-the-weight-of-long-term-care

so for the near future I'll talk to my fp about continuing to self insure. *** sighs** this is insane.

I'm still on the fence. I'll get some more quotes

 

[tvguy]

since yesterday I've been on line searching the top players in LTI. Genworth is the largest and seems to get the crappiest review. average 1 star out of 4 (at consumer report and forbes) the main gripe seems to be premiums increasing double digits, most jumping 37%.

this article is from March
http://www.investmentnews.com/artic...struggling-under-the-weight-of-long-term-care

so for the near future I'll talk to my fp about continuing to self insure. *** sighs** this is insane.

I'm still on the fence. I'll get some more quotes

This is what I don't get. I have Genworth, and my premium can never go up. That is why my financial adviser recommended it. So they do have fixed rate plans.