*Lightbulb Moment* Why people act brash at disney world! (IMO)

[goodhonk]

I think it's less about money and more about TIME.

I think this is correct, or more correctly (desperation to experience)=(cost/time). One more factor of course, the higher the value that you place on money the higher the desperation. Someone making 30K a year is more likely to place a higher value and be more careful with their money that someone making 100K.

Analysis:

I first came to WDW in 1989 for 4 days and we were there open to close because that's all the time and money that we had. My cost/time ratio was high. I think this is the case of most people.

I came in 2004 as a contractor at Lockheed and knew that I would just be here one year. With an AP and a year to go, not so desperate due to the cost/time ratio.

Now I am a permanent resident of Orlando (4 years and counting). I get to the park at opening, stay till noon when it starts to get busy or hot, I leave. I know I can just come back next week with no extra cost. And leaving at noon allows me to have the rest of the day to do something else. I also know that I can just wait until Sept. if I really want exclusivity. With this situation, for example, if something is closed for refurb that I wanted to experience, it's no big deal. I also live within 20 minutes of all Disney and Uni parks. Comparatively few, who want to come to WDW, have this low cost/time ratio.

Conclusion:

Analyzing this in the lens of the original poster, the higher the desperation to experience, the further you move from Social Norms to Business Norms. If it costs you nothing to be nice, most people with be. When it starts costing something to be nice, people don't want to pay the price of being nice to you.

 

[Summertinkerbell]

I think it has a lot to do with someone's character.

We live in CT and can only afford to come every few years (this time it was 4 years). We can only come during a school vacation...I will not take my child out of school, and I'm a teacher who cannot miss school either. We spent well over 5K. We drove through insane traffic for two full days. It was hot and humid. We didn't push people or act out.

Somehow we managed to be patient and continue to use our good manners as people viewed us as invisible crashing right into us head-on. We watched the crazy-looking people run right off the monorail propelling the crowd down the ramp only to be halted at the bag check area in MK. We stayed off to the side, holding on to the railing as we walked quickly getting into MK at the same time as those who ran like lunatics.

One day I took a break as my DH & DD went off to do a ride on their own. I sat and people-watched. I watched the tantruming by kids of all ages (adults included), and the adult in charge giving in every time. I wanted to scream, "Are you crazy?!" It was something to see. I should have filmed it and posted it to youtube.

A mental health professional should do an actual study on human behavior in WDW. I would be very interested to read it.

 

[ErinCat]

Are you familiar with Dan Ariely's work? As far as FP+, that's hard to say. Before, people were running to get early morning slips of paper. All serious disney nazi's sent a 'runner'. Now, that has been negated and people can at least rest easy and say yes, Aunt Mabel..you ARE going to get to ride Soarin! If I had to guess, I would say the pressure and bad behavior have risen in sync with the rise of prices. It's not uncommon for a family to spend $4-5K on a WDW trip, and when you consider the average household income is 50K, that's a HUGE chunk of money.

I am familiar in the sense that people are predictably irrational. I do wonder if there is a difference in behavior with income. But that is a very sensitive subject for most people. My personal observation is that people are more pushy and competitive at Disney, but are more generally rude/crass at other places such as Six Flags. I don't think I have ever heard someone curse loudly at a CM at Disney, but it is common at Six Flags. I doubt anyone would be posting videos and threads of someone cursing out an employee at Six Flags. Not news.

 

[merrick]

coming from canada, our costs are significantly higher than $5000. but to be honest, i don't think about that the entire time i am walking thru the park, waiting for a table or for an attraction. like others have said, i feel like "this was really expensive so let's make the best of it".

i did see some pretty bad behaviour when we were there last year... the one that stood out was at fast track. a little boy (8?) was making car on computer with his parents. as we made our way thru the queue to the cars, he was resistant, he clearly did not want to do this. his parents were begging, cajoling and finally, when time to put up his magic band, he flat out refused and started crying. the father grabbed his arm and tried to *force* it up to the mickey pole. the child was hysterical and i started to say something, thankfully the mother stepped in and told her husband to go alone. he said "forget it, this was supposed to fun for ALL OF US" and stormed away. ugh. i saw them later in the park and the dad was still 10 feet ahead of them with a foul look on his face. sometimes you just gotta shake things off and make the best of it. his holiday wasn't ruined because his son was afraid, he CHOSE to ruin his holiday by making a big deal out of it.

 

[seashoreCM]

The "free" plate of candy versus the candy at 2 cents apiece is not the best analogy to a Disney park. Nothing was mentioned about whether the students had to pay admission to get into the Victorian high ceilinged library where the cookies and tea and candy were being served and where some of the students got into lengthy philosophical and sometimes heated discussions on varied topics. Like, "what if the candy cost 50 cents apiece, or two dollars apiece?".

At Disney, after you got into the park, everything was free from then on.

What we have is a breakdown of the "all you can eat" or "all you can ride" pricing system, in effect at Walt Disney World since 1982 (opening of Epcot) and known in the amusement industry as "pay one price."

Returning to individual ride pricing can cut way down on the rude rush-rush behavior.

To the amusement industry in general, pay-one-price saved on the labor needed to collect money or coupons at the rides. But at Disney, the Fastpass system has required adding back the labor at each ride to admit FP riders

 

[Disneymom1126]

I think the theory makes a lot of sense...I also think we can't forget that people don't leave their (diagnosed and undiagnosed) issues back at home when they come Disney. All that comes right down Main Street with them....and is probably heightened by the stress of crowds, heat, other inconsiderate people, high expectations, stress of planning and wanting everyone to enjoy every minute of every day...it's all a recipe for crazy!

 

[DisLee]

I think you hit the nail on the head, OP. that and there are also people who are miserable 24/7, no matter what they are doing.

 

[Hisgirl]

I'd like to add one example of when I experienced business/social norms in a totally different setting. I was shopping for mortgages and spoke with a highly successful broker.

We talked numbers and it was very business like. I was interacting with him using my business norms.

However, he was SO friendly and I really enjoyed our banter. As we talked the finer points of the mortgage, he asked about my kids, colleges, and then said," I sure would like to get advice from you about college. My daughter is in high school!" I thought to myself,"What a NICE guy! He sure is friendly! And he wants my advice!" I felt appreciated.

As we progressed in the potential deal, I suddenly realized what he was doing. I had begun to 'like' him as a person, and I found myself not wanting to compare quotes because, well...we had formed what felt like a friendship of sorts.
I didn't want to hurt his feelings and 'betray' him.

He had successfully switched me from business norms, to social norms.

I instantly began only communicating via email and he panicked. He began insisting we speak in person. I compared quotes and quickly found a much better deal and also discovered a very steep commission buried in the mice type of his contract (I had not signed).

I informed him I was going with a different company and his response was curt, with a threatening, harsh tone. He said that with the amount of time he had invested in me, he expected me to send clients to him within the week. Seriously?

Another time, a cracker jack salesman had showed us a property and as we left, he said,"I realize people say they'll think about it and maybe get back to me...but no one ever does. So....goodbye...and....God bless you."

Later that night, I couldn't stop thinking about this man and something, SOMETHING in me wanted to be ONE who DID come back, the ONE who didn't disappoint him! I finally mentioned this to my DH and he said, "Oh my gosh, that's EXACTLY what I feel TOO!"

We realized we had been subtly switched from business to social norms. Successful sales people can have tricks up their sleeves and this, indeed, is one.

 

[nooneshome]

If it were a business norm then why aren't more people brash? I think that is just a way to explain why a few people are jerks but thankfully it doesn't apply to most people. Why is it that people in the entitlement class who are given things for free don't exhibit the social norms described in the OP? Some people are just selfish and brash and don't care about anyone else regardless of a business or social environment. Thank God most people aren't like that.

 

[disneyjunkie]

As a side point, people, I really WILL try not to run over people, but sometimes people do the MOST unpredictable things and literally decide out of no where either to stop immediately right in the street or decide to jump off their ledge right on or into us etc. Or lil kids leave their parents side and wander right in front of us and do circles and now we have no idea which way to go around them, do we go left, do we go right, straight? NO WAY to tell!

So lets take some responsibility as well when it comes to the main thoroughfares...

Exactly

If you want to stroll through the parks. Knock yourself out. Just move out of the way so that those of us speed walking to the next attraction can get pass you. And please, don't get offended when once of says excuse me and scoots around you.

 

[disneyjunkie]

Interesting. I am a psychology professor and it makes sense. Anonymity plus pressure to compete for the "best" time. Do you think FP+ has made thing more or less civil?

I say less.

I know I more more intense about times with the new system than I was with the old one. With the old system, I knew we would get to do all of our favorites a bunch of times during our trip. That just isn't the case FOR US with FP+.

 

[ArwenMarie]

Very interesting post OP. I think you are right on.

And I agree with previous posters that the increasing prices as well as increased scarcity of rides has played a role.

On the flip side, I think Disney tries hard to keep the transaction in the social-norms category, much like the salesmen you mentioned in your examples. Memories! Magic! Picture of a little girl hugging a princess on the lawn! I mean, is there any company that tries to evoke an emotional response harder than Disney?

 

[JimmyV]

The "free" plate of candy versus the candy at 2 cents apiece is not the best analogy to a Disney park. Nothing was mentioned about whether the students had to pay admission to get into the Victorian high ceilinged library where the cookies and tea and candy were being served and where some of the students got into lengthy philosophical and sometimes heated discussions on varied topics. Like, "what if the candy cost 50 cents apiece, or two dollars apiece?".

At Disney, after you got into the park, everything was free from then on.

What we have is a breakdown of the "all you can eat" or "all you can ride" pricing system, in effect at Walt Disney World since 1982 (opening of Epcot) and known in the amusement industry as "pay one price."

Returning to individual ride pricing can cut way down on the rude rush-rush behavior.

To the amusement industry in general, pay-one-price saved on the labor needed to collect money or coupons at the rides. But at Disney, the Fastpass system has required adding back the labor at each ride to admit FP riders

I agree with this. I don't think that the "2 cents a piece" analogy works. The better test would be to compare how people behave when the candy is free versus how they behave when they pay $1 and are told that they can take as many pieces as they want. Do they continue to take one or two pieces and leave the rest for others? Do they take the number of pieces that they think fairly equates to the value of $1? Or do they take as many as their hands and pockets will carry trying to take advantage of the offer. This, I think, is a better test than 2 cents a piece when it comes to evaluating behavior at WDW.

I think a major factor in behavior, (as well as the change we see over time) is crowding. Crowding and cramped quarters causes stress. It is true for the tiger who paces back and forth in the zoo and it is true for humans. The MK plays host to almost twice as many people today than it did when it opened. But the space did not double. People feel more crowded because they are more crowded. So everyone designs a strategy to "beat the system". And the implementation of that strategy adds to the stress. "C'mon kids! We have to be at the Jungle Cruise at exactly 11:16 or our whole day is ruined!" I think this behavior accounts for pushing and running and rudeness than the social/business dichotomy. Take a moment and observe the people in the happiest place on earth. Most of them are miserable.

 

[mort1331]

As I read all the points, everyone with the exception of ArwenMarie went to the money side of things. What I see Disney doing and has done is get to the personal side of us. My DW loves the attention to detail, the courteous CM and has not had a bad experience with the Disney way. We have friends that do this as well, 17 cruises and counting, plus DVC members. Why? Because they see the value in the money, getting to the personal side of us, and making us feel its still Magical even after all the trips. It takes us away from the money we spent on DVC, knowing there are cheaper ways to do Disney, less expensive timeshares, with better accommodations. I see how we don't mind spending the extra to have the little things. I would not spend the extra $1000 for the dvd in a minivan, the kids can have their portables. But I have no issues giving my money to have a "free ride" from the airport to a Disney property.

 

[Goofey Drool]

Yes, good point... and add that the culture has deteriorated so. Even a trip to the grocery store usually creates contact with rude behavior. I cant watch reality TV because of the nasty people on display for all to learn from. We want to encourage good behavior and courtesy but we celebrate "crazy" We live in odd times.

 

[ErinCat]

So just out of interest and procrastinating doing actual work preparing for my classes in the Fall, I looked up "Disney World" in PsycNet which is a search engine for published psychology research. Psychologists have tended towards research on the creativity of imagineers, CM emotional exhaustion, the actual experiments happening with dolphins at Epcot, the effect of princesses on little girls, and how WDW is physically designed to keep everyone distributed in the parks with the magic "rationally prepared and presented."

 

[JimmyV]

As I read all the points, everyone with the exception of ArwenMarie went to the money side of things.

Then perhaps I wasn't clear enough. I think rude behavior is derivative of the stress caused by crowding and the perceived need to commit to and follow a regimented schedule. I do not think this is monetarily driven.

 

[mort1331]

Then perhaps I wasn't clear enough. I think rude behavior is derivative of the stress caused by crowding and the perceived need to commit to and follow a regimented schedule. I do not think this is monetarily driven.

I am sorry JimmyV, please forgive me

 

[Ambear]

I think the business norm makes sense and contributes to people acting like they're the only ones who matter at Disney. You can get caught up in the fact that you paid significant money to be there so you have to look out for yourself and family.

But then manners and personality contribute to the rest of the negative behavior. Like the other thread, the little boy was knocked down by someone and they didn't even care cause they were too concerned about running to whatever attraction. This separates him from the people who might also get caught up in their excitement and knock a kid over, but instead they stop and say "*** am I acting like this for?" and they help the kid up and make sure he's okay. It's the ones who don't help who wouldn't help you anywhere. Even if it weren't a business setting.

 

[Magpie]

Yes, good point... and add that the culture has deteriorated so. Even a trip to the grocery store usually creates contact with rude behavior. I cant watch reality TV because of the nasty people on display for all to learn from. We want to encourage good behavior and courtesy but we celebrate "crazy" We live in odd times.

I disagree. But, that said, I am a Canadian so my culture may be quite different from yours.

However, I have not seen any "deterioration" of my culture. Instead I've seen many improvements.

In my lifetime...

Teachers are more sensitive to issues around bullying. The school environment is kinder.

People in general are more tolerant of each others differences, with regards to religion, race, and sexuality.

Boys and men are considerably less grabby, entitled and disrespectful toward women.

People take better care of their pets, and are less likely to behave as if they're disposable.

People are better informed about the world around them.

Seeking mental health treatment is less stigmatized.

Casual racism and sexism are no longer socially acceptable.

To see the positive changes in our culture, all I have to do is look at the teenagers who volunteer with the elderly at our local hospital. They're frequently shocked by the things these old folks say and do, that would have been acceptable once upon a time. (Making crude comments about the nurses, saying things that are racist or homophobic toward minority staff or male nurses, etc...)

Reality TV is not real. It's nonsense - a clown show, cut and paste and faked up for our entertainment. I don't think it changes how most of us behave any more than Hee Haw turned people into yokels.