Leverage: anyone considering SSR purchase:

[TCPluto]

Tho he had once felt Deb and Bill had been his champions in his 'war'... that now they were lumped in with the rest of us, as attacking him.

I IM'd TC back... He declined, as is his right. I'm sorry about that. I invited him to close this thread (page 20) but he said he didn't feel comfortable with that idea.

Heck, we all probably need a little... a few people need a lot of practice.

It isn't enough to SAY you will take the high road....you really have to walk the high walk (highway?).

I never thought I was in a war, those are not my words, those are yours. I never said I thought they were allies, just that they could see the issue. That is likely part of the problem, some do see this as a war.

When she reread her post, she apologized emphatically, it was hearetfelt and sincere. I know she didn't mean to offend, she intended humor. I think she does see, as many do, the secondary and unintended message, which was indeed hurtful. And was a perfect example of what I was trying to get across.

I have no authority to close this thread. Indeed, it has taken on a life of its own.

It's not my intent to try and convince anyone their opinion is right, wrong or invalid. I have accomplished my goal.

Practice makes perfect, right?

Your'e absolutely right, lets take the high road.

 

[ColoradoBelle1]

Yes Ken, tis true that a hard or soft or bedbuggie (eeeeuwww! )
bed could be a problem at any hotel, motel, friend's house in the world...completely logical. And I am sure that you agree that it wouldn't be logical to never travel anyway because of the danger of getting a bad bed.
However, it might be logical to ascertain the chances of getting a soft bed (if that is what you prefer) by picking up the phone, calling the friend and asking OR requesting a softer bed from the hotel or at least figuring out your chances of getting a soft bed room. Are we still agreeing?
It is even ok to get EMOTIONAL about the need for a soft bed and further, ok to hope that your friends and disboarders will be empathetic to your quest.

Things go bad when someone instead tells you you are stupid for wanting a soft bed. You aren't stupid. RIght?

There is sometimes a definite point when a message goes off kilter. Focusing on that point often 'nips things in the bud' (hope I haven't offended any non-budnippers ). And that is really what we need to strive to do, instead of egging people on or accusing each other of being stupid (or naughty...tho I just love that word naughty and keep thinking of that new show, the nanny when it is said.)

Ken, you may be right that we can turn this thread around...it would be a nice step up in human development. Lets see how long the positive statements...tho different...can last!

 

[ColoradoBelle1]

TC..we posted at the same time...I wasn't ignoring your post, just busy writing mine.
I'm glad you IMd Deb and told her how you felt. That is indeed good practice and indeed a job well done. And I'm glad it felt comforting when she apologized and said she only meant to be funny and was including you in the rest of the group when she DISed us all. (and of course I am assuming that is what she said from the positive effect it had on you.)

As to war and gangs and ganging up on....those words might have come from your IM to me and from some of your last posts, but I had no negative connotation attached to that word...only trying to express to others how you might have been feeling somewhat besieged.

So before you IM'd DEB you IMd me that she was cruel and insensitive and posted it here too , right? Tho a few pages back, you felt she was supportive of you and posted that on this thread , right? My point was that you might have felt doubly betrayed by someone you hoped was an ally suddenly being cruel. Glad you Im'd her and worked it out tho. Now perhaps accepting others apologies (even if you aren't quite convinced of their sincerity) might be even more practice and end up creating more positivity...right?
Maybe someone rich can give out DIsney dollars to every positive poster!

CB

 

[SoCalKDG]

Ken, you may be right that we can turn this thread around...it would be a nice step up in human development. Lets see how long the positive statements...tho different...can last!

Lets make the assumption that DVC is going to allow us to book online(very possible), and that the bookings will allow specific requests that will be guaranteed(who knows if possible, and when it would be).

How much detail should be allowed for requests?

View
Floor
HC or not
Smoking or not
Close to elevators/far away from elevators

 

[sssteele]

"Maybe someone rich can give out DIsney dollars to every positive poster!"
See my post from 3/2. I think I qualify - please send me a PM to make arrangements for payment.

 

[ColoradoBelle1]

It wouldn't bother me in the least if anyone requested anything (except perhaps that women over 120 pounds not be allowed to use the SOB pool .....for explanation see a now closed thread re bikinis at BCV)

I think Disney does honor medical requests as guaranteed. and if I am not mistaken, they take the position that if the person requesting says it's medical then that is alright by Disney...and that is a highroad way to act...Disney dollars there).

Someone posted...and I think this might be true...that the more requests you post at any given time, the harder it will be to honor them...and the more frustrated the CM will become in trying to do so.

So , when you phone, try to keep it to one or two requests for medical or health considerations. Of course, if you don't have any medical preference for a smoking or non, handicap or non, then I think it fine if you have a request about a floor or a view or proximity tot he elevator. It just behooves us to try to KISS IT so it doesn't get overwheming to the CM

.But for all other requests...I think you should make them at the front desk on arrival by simply saying : any chance I can get a room near the elevator OR are there any Epcot views left OR views of the golf course?
. Then you give the CM an opportunity to say: well I have one room with great views near the elevator BUT it is smoking optional...will that work? Then you get to make the choice of what is most important to you personally.

And it isn't rocket science. And yes, once in a while a late arrival is gonna get the last room in the house....TO that end, I called the hotel manager at BWV cause I read he was a real hottie...no not true bad girl...I read he was a really nice guy who bent over backwards to please his guests. I asked him who payed when he comped a room or sent flowers or stuffed animals to guests...he said DISNEY paid and wrote it off on taxes and that DVCers did not pay...I realize he isn't the accountant, and that those of you who peruse budgets with a fine tooth comb might find differently...but I trust him. I think Disney pays and then uses it as a tax relief and doesn't pass it off on DVC members (cause then it couldnt' take the tax relief.

THis is just my opinion of course....you may feel differently and you may find flaws in my opinion if you want. But we are NOT going to go the route of attacking me or anyone just because my opinion didn't consider something important to you BECAUSE we are trying to earn DISNEY DOLLARS...right?
Already then...let the poll continue.

 

[SueM in MN]

I have not read every entry in this War and Peace of threads, but I felt I needed to add some facts.

• It is a fact that some handicapped accessible rooms are sometimes less convenient or do not meet the needs of some people (even some people with disabilities).
• It is a fact that some handicapped accessible (HA) rooms have only roll in showers, but some also have a tub in addition to the roll in shower (1 bedroom and larger villas) and some have only a tub with grab bars.
• There are actually 2 types of HA rooms.
  The first are HA, but not fully wheelchair accessible. Most people who get these rooms probably don't even realize they have HA rooms because they have tubs with grab bars and raised seat toilets with grab bars, but otherwise they are the same as a Non- HA room. They may be useful for someone who is ambulatory, but unsteady. The guest may not need a wheelchair/scooter in the room, but needs grab bars in the bathroom.
  The second type are fully wheelchair accessible rooms. Those rooms are pretty obvious because they have roll in showers, raised seat toilets, lower counters, roll under counters, etc. Someone who needs that level of access typically can not travel unless they have a fully wheelchair accessible room.
• HA rooms may have lower beds (the fully wheelchair accessible rooms usually have a bed at a height that someone in a wheelchair can transfer into). The beds in the rooms without roll in showers are often at the same height as typical rooms for that resort.
• There is no one type of mattress that is better for someone with disabilities. Some might want a softer one because it that's what they prefer (same as some people without disabilities). Some prefer a harder mattress because it is easier to transfer to/from.
  The mattress in a HA room is usually exactly the same as the other mattresses at that resort. If someone has a soft mattress and wants a harder one, it is possible to request a bed board from Housekeeping.
• It is a fact that the ADA requires a certain number of HA room, depending on the number of rooms in a resort. (Here is a link to the ADA site that lists the numbers. )
• From reading this thread, one would think that most of the rooms at SSR (or any other DVC location) are handicapped accessible. They are not.
  
  Looking at the total number of rooms in resort listed on the DIS site for each resort, this is the number of HA and roll in shower rooms that the ADA requires for that many rooms:
  
  VWL has a total of 181 villas, so it fits in the category of
  Total number of rooms= 151 to 200
  ADA requires 6 HA and 2 with roll in showers
  
  BCV has 282 villas, so it fits in
  Total number of rooms in resort = 201 to 300
  ADA requires 7 HA and 3 with roll in showers
  
  BWV has 383 villas, so it fits in
  Total number of rooms in resort = 301 to 400
  ADA requires 8 HA and 4 with roll in showers
  
  OKW has 709 villas, so it fits in
  Total number of rooms in resort = 501 to 1000
  ADA requires 2% of total be HA and 4 with roll in shower, plus 1 with roll in shower for each additional 100 rooms over 400
  
  If I remember right, SSR is scheduled to be just over 1000 villas when done, so it would fit in the category of 1001 and over.
  20 HA plus 1 for each 100 rooms over 1000 and 4 with roll in shower, plus 1 with roll in shower for each additional 100 rooms over 400
  
  (If it's 800 something like I read in a recent thread, it would be the same category as OKW).
  
• The owner of the resort can choose to have more HA or roll in shower rooms, but they typically stay pretty close to the number that is required for the roll in shower rooms. Often, they will have more of the non-roll in shower rooms than the ADA requires because it just amounts to putting in grab bars.

 

[ColoradoBelle1]

Thank you Sue for all this great info

Can't believe you spent time reading this novel...we really needed to offer you Cliff Notes !

Re it's new title: WAR AND PEACE :
............LMAO

 

[SueM in MN]

Thank you Sue for all this great info

Can't believe you spent time reading this novel...we really needed to offer you Cliff Notes !

Re it's new title: WAR AND PEACE :
............LMAO

I skimmed it, but it took a while.
I'd like to order the Cliff Notes version.

 

[sjdisneywedding]

I went back and read your post to make sure I hadn't misread it. You said some people feel it was a health issue for them to have a HA bed. To me that means HA beds are worse, not different(health issue - bad thing).

I simply stated that each bed at every resort in the world is different, and may be an issue to someone with a bad back, not just a HA specifically. If one needs a specific hard or soft bed for their back, then there will always be a chance at any hotel in the world that it could be a problem.

its fine if you think they are worse but as I stated thats not what I said, worse for one may be better for another, better for one may be worse for another Thats why I am saying they are just different!

like I said this is not my feelings its what I have read more than once from others who state these beds, because they are I guess lower or whatever cause them to have back problems.

Its not my right to say whether something gives soemone else problems with their physical health and well being.

 

[sjdisneywedding]

I have not read every entry in this War and Peace of threads, but I felt I needed to add some facts.

• It is a fact that some handicapped accessible rooms are sometimes less convenient or do not meet the needs of some people (even some people with disabilities).
• It is a fact that some handicapped accessible (HA) rooms have only roll in showers, but some also have a tub in addition to the roll in shower (1 bedroom and larger villas) and some have only a tub with grab bars.
• There are actually 2 types of HA rooms.
  The first are HA, but not fully wheelchair accessible. Most people who get these rooms probably don't even realize they have HA rooms because they have tubs with grab bars and raised seat toilets with grab bars, but otherwise they are the same as a Non- HA room. They may be useful for someone who is ambulatory, but unsteady. The guest may not need a wheelchair/scooter in the room, but needs grab bars in the bathroom.
  The second type are fully wheelchair accessible rooms. Those rooms are pretty obvious because they have roll in showers, raised seat toilets, lower counters, roll under counters, etc. Someone who needs that level of access typically can not travel unless they have a fully wheelchair accessible room.
• HA rooms may have lower beds (the fully wheelchair accessible rooms usually have a bed at a height that someone in a wheelchair can transfer into). The beds in the rooms without roll in showers are often at the same height as typical rooms for that resort.
• There is no one type of mattress that is better for someone with disabilities. Some might want a softer one because it that's what they prefer (same as some people without disabilities). Some prefer a harder mattress because it is easier to transfer to/from.
  The mattress in a HA room is usually exactly the same as the other mattresses at that resort. If someone has a soft mattress and wants a harder one, it is possible to request a bed board from Housekeeping.
• It is a fact that the ADA requires a certain number of HA room, depending on the number of rooms in a resort. (Here is a link to the ADA site that lists the numbers. )
• From reading this thread, one would think that most of the rooms at SSR (or any other DVC location) are handicapped accessible. They are not.
  
  Looking at the total number of rooms in resort listed on the DIS site for each resort, this is the number of HA and roll in shower rooms that the ADA requires for that many rooms:
  
  VWL has a total of 181 villas, so it fits in the category of
  Total number of rooms= 151 to 200
  ADA requires 6 HA and 2 with roll in showers
  
  BCV has 282 villas, so it fits in
  Total number of rooms in resort = 201 to 300
  ADA requires 7 HA and 3 with roll in showers
  
  BWV has 383 villas, so it fits in
  Total number of rooms in resort = 301 to 400
  ADA requires 8 HA and 4 with roll in showers
  
  OKW has 709 villas, so it fits in
  Total number of rooms in resort = 501 to 1000
  ADA requires 2% of total be HA and 4 with roll in shower, plus 1 with roll in shower for each additional 100 rooms over 400
  
  If I remember right, SSR is scheduled to be just over 1000 villas when done, so it would fit in the category of 1001 and over.
  20 HA plus 1 for each 100 rooms over 1000 and 4 with roll in shower, plus 1 with roll in shower for each additional 100 rooms over 400
  
  (If it's 800 something like I read in a recent thread, it would be the same category as OKW).
  
• The owner of the resort can choose to have more HA or roll in shower rooms, but they typically stay pretty close to the number that is required for the roll in shower rooms. Often, they will have more of the non-roll in shower rooms than the ADA requires because it just amounts to putting in grab bars.

great info SueM. I think this type of info is very good for the debates. The only thing I will comment on is it seems that DVC for some reason goes way beyond the ADA requirements(not saying good or bad, right or wrong.. I am sure they know what they need)

For ex the ada at BWV requires 8 HA in total and according to info I have seen BWV has 29 HA rooms(or almost 4 times the requirement)

 

[SueM in MN]

great info SueM. I think this type of info is very good for the debates. The only thing I will comment on is it seems that DVC for some reason goes way beyond the ADA requirements(not saying good or bad, right or wrong.. I am sure they know what they need)

For ex the ada at BWV requires 8 HA in total and according to info I have seen BWV has 29 HA rooms(or almost 4 times the requirement)

Actually BWV needs 12 rooms - 8 of them would be HA (the tub with grab bar type) and 4 would be fully wheelchair accessible (with roll in showers)

The counts that DVC gives of HA rooms are kind of misleading because when they report them, they report each room size separately, even though most of them are lock offs (so most of the rooms are counted at least twice if you add them up).
Explanation:
I emailed once to ask how many HA rooms in each villa size there were at OKW. I don't have the numbers where I can find them anymore, so I'll use x and y.
According to the email, there were xx one bedrooms, xx studios and xy 2 bedrooms. When I added all the numbers up, it was almost 3 times the number required by the ADA. So, I asked for more clarification of how many of the rooms were lock offs and whether there were actually xx plus xx plus xy rooms or a smaller number. As it turned out, there were a couple dedicated 2 bedrooms and the rest were 2 bedroom lock offs that could be used as studios, one bedrooms or 2 bedrooms.

Also, I don't know how many of the total number of rooms are the fully wheelchair accessible rooms (with roll in showers). Hotels typically could have more of the HA (with tubs and grab bars) than are required. The floorplan of those rooms is the same as a "regular" room, it's inexpensive to add grab bars and many people don't even realize those are HA rooms.

The number of roll in shower rooms is probably not much more than required by the ADA. Those types of rooms do require a different floorplan, (and as shown on this thread) people who don't need the features of the room often are not happy if they get one.

If WDW has more HA rooms than the ADA requires, it's probably because they have historiacl data of how many they need.

 

[SueM in MN]

Duhhh!
It came to me all of a sudden how to explain the number of DVC HA rooms.
If they only had one type of room available (like 2 bedrooms were all they offered), you could just look at the number of rooms required by the ADA for a hotel/resort of that size and the number of HA rooms should fall into the required number.
Since DVC offers studio, 1 bedroom, 2 bedroom and Grand Villa accomidations, they also have to offer villas in all those sizes to people who need accessible accomidations. I think the law says something like a "proportional number" of accomidations in each type offered need to be HA.
So, if you just look at total number, they will appear to be providing way more HA than are required, but if looked at by number of one bedrooms, studios, etc. they probably fall right into the required number.

Having lock offs also has an impact on the number. I think (but I'm not sure, so this is just a guess based on what I know) that the total number they give if you ask for the number of HA rooms somehow counts rooms that can be used at the same time. So the count would include lock off 1 bedrooms, lock off studios, the dedicated 2 bedrooms and the Grand Villas. You could use a lock off studio and a lock off 1 bedroom at the same time, so I think that's how they count them. I don't think they include the all the 2 bedroom lock offs in the counts they give people because a villa can't be used at the same time as a studio, one and 2 bedroom.

This may make things clearer (or muddy them up more), but it's the best I can do.

 

[sjdisneywedding]

no I completely understand.

excellent stuff, thanks for taking the time to post some of this sinformation. where were ya about 2 weeks ago when this thread started

 

[SueM in MN]

no I completely understand.

excellent stuff, thanks for taking the time to post some of this sinformation. where were ya about 2 weeks ago when this thread started

I didn't read it at first since we are not considering a SSR purchase. (We have stayed there and it is very nice, but we already have enough points for several families - although DH is getting that "I need more points" look).
I found it a few days ago when I did a search for "handicapped".
Guess I need to search more often.

 

[waltfan1957]

Can't we just make lying illegal???

which party is that ill vote for them

 

[waltfan1957]

I see a huge difference between smoke/non-smoke and HA/non-HA, and they shouldn't be lumped together.

First, I believe smoke/non-smoke should be guaranteed. Having said that, many of the Dr's quotes listed here state 2nd hand smoke is bad, which I agree. They don't state anything about the actual effects of a room that had been smoked in, but was then cleaned.

I'm pretty sure that having a non-smoking room next to smokers room would be worse than a previously smoked in room. I say make the all of DVC non-smoking to guarentee non-smoking. Maybe allow on balconies???

They should try their hardest to give people HA/non-HA. It shouldn't be guarenteed. If you get stuck with the room that you didn't prefer, at least it only affects you the 10 minutes each day you go to shower/bath.

so smoking/non smoking should be guarenteed but ha/non ha should'nt, do you really believe that a disabled person would only suffer for ten minutes a day if they did'nt get a ha room. thats about the worst and most stupid qoute I've ever read on here

 

[waltfan1957]

TCPluto:in response to your comments to me personally: My daughter is an adult, 24, and a licensed therapist. I asked her to read this thread ...your posts specifically..and to tell me her opinion as to your need to attack others rather than simply and more effectively stating your own opinion. I am glad that you posted that you FEELsorry for my family. Because it was her opinion as a therapist that you might have difficulty in feeling your own feelings and that therefore you have even more difficulty in empathizing with the feelings and needs of others so instead, when confronted, you tend to regress into attack mode. You can certainly feel sorry for my family...I appreciate it. My daughter read your post and laughed
Colorado Belle

thats sad using your daughter to analyze someones posts, just for the record shes a million miles off

 

[waltfan1957]

you are making broad statements about what one rude loud person said about the HA room being inferior. One can find these types of situations in any aspect of life. this is a completely different discussion we are trying to discuss the current reservation system with regard to requests.

totally missed the point it wasnt about the room it was about the look she gave his daughter and how she and other disabled people read this. you said I think you lived with a disabled person then you must have come across this yourself if not you are very lucky

 

[waltfan1957]

Will TCPluto get that H/A room and have people stop rolling their eyes at her daughter?

not very funny, you said in an earlier post that you didnt care you just proved it