Let's speculate about Polynesian some more!

[BeachClub2014]

You go from having to choose one home resort at 11 months to 5…RIV, VDH, AUL, CFW and Poly tower.

Right now..it’s pick one. Even I could see how it might be a better purchase along with my deeded ownership over resale.

At 7 months you access the rest, which is no different.

Plus, every other new project done would automatically be included in the trust so over time, you get more and more properties until eventually, it’s all like that.

That could really suck for Riviera resale owners. They'd be competing with a whole lot more pool of people at the 11-month mark and could be potentially locked out.

 

[Sally524]

Just some hopeful thinking here. What if making the Poly2 not its own resort and restricted is a sign that Disney is rethinking "restrictive" resorts and will eventually remove the restrictions from Riviera.

 

[🍀TwinsMom]

So we’re direct Riviera owners. We knew about the restrictions but bought where we want to stay. After several split stays, DH is 100% all Riviera, all the time. I love it, too, but I advocated the purchase for direct for access to the whole DVC portfolio, because we bought for the long haul 50 years, and I want options with/for our kids. We do plan to pass it on to them, as each contract covers the blue card requirement, and variety is the spice of life.

I did think Poly 2.0 would be a new association, for all the reasons stated ad nauseam. I am not mad at resale Poly owners (that’s weird,) but I do feel led astray by the DVC spiel about the future resorts having restrictions. I feel that Riviera is being penalized being the only WDW to have restrictions, and after seeing the cash cow after the fire sale of VGF this summer, who’s to say they don’t flip Yacht Club, or make CFW part of Copper Creek under the WL banner with no restrictions? I just don’t trust this deliberate ambiguity and, intended or not, weakening of their own restrictions policy.

We were stoked to buy Poly 2.0 if it was a separate association because we don’t like studios and never intended to be in a bungalow. I think if you don’t own Poly, in order to get the standard view one and two-bedrooms, like Riviera, you’ll be lucky to get those rooms off season for a few days, slim chances for a week. You’ll need to own there.

I’m not dying to face, at best, $190pp (sale price after incentive) to still be competing with OG Poly points for larger rooms with cheaper views. As well, with this many points going up for sale, if they decide to declare them all at once like VGF, I am willing to roll the dice at 7 months with my direct Riviera points or buy Poly resale, or maybe hedge our bets on CC resale with an eye on CFW and Reflections being bundled into it.

At the end of the day, we do believe in buying where you want to stay, especially since we have another decade of being forced to travel peak times for kids’ school and sports schedule, as well as wanting a second resort with Thanksgiving week priority every year, but unless there’s a Poly fire sale equivalent to VGF, there’s no burning rush to buy in now.

Guess we’re putting in hardwoods and renovating our bathroom versus Poly points!

 

[Sandisw]

That could really suck for Riviera resale owners. They'd be competing with a whole lot more pool of people at the 11-month mark and could be potentially locked out.

My thought is that they only add the units from RIV or VDH, that are not yet declared.

So, the 11 month booking would consist of points only associated with those units. Basically, it would be set up to have two different buckets of rooms because the trust owned units are not actually part of the RIv condo association.

Members who buy into the trust would not have access to the other units until 7 months.

And, because the POS already states they don’t have to declare more…I think they could adjust things in such a way to accommodate the units not yet declared.

Right now, my RIv resale points are tied to declared inventory. If no more inventory is declared, it doesn’t change my options.

Like I said, I would not be surprised if we see something unique done with the Poly tower rooms when added to the PVB association and that CFW might come on board differently as well.

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

Except you don’t own at the resort. You are buying a membership. And I see nothing that would preclude DVD from setting up the POS of the trust to put restrictions on selling your membership interest in the trust.

Who knew they’d ever go the restrictions route.

So, yes, I can definitely see them finding a way to do it.

You think they’re going to try to sell a product that you can never resell or give away? That seems highly unlikely to me and would be unique amongst all major timeshare systems. And, in my experience, Disney has never been a trailblazer, they always have copied.

When Disney implemented resale restrictions that restricted resale purchasers to home resort priority, that was already something that many other timeshare properties had implemented (Westgate, Vistana/Westin Staroptions Voluntary, etc.). What you are describing, a system that effectively cannot be resold, would be unique. One of the big selling points of any timeshare is the idea that you own some kind of real estate interest that you can later sell. I just can’t see Disney trying to do this, and I’m also not sure it would be legal. There are no “trust-based” timeshare products amongst the major developers that cannot be resold.

 

[Sandisw]

You think they’re going to try to sell a product that you can never resell or give away? That seems highly unlikely to me and would be unique amongst all major timeshare systems. And, in my experience, Disney has never been a trailblazer, they always have copied.

When Disney implemented resale restrictions that restricted resale purchasers to home resort priority, that was already something that many other timeshare properties had implemented (Westgate, Vistana/Westin Staroptions Voluntary, etc.). What you are describing, a system that effectively cannot be resold, would be unique. One of the big selling points of any timeshare is the idea that you own some kind of real estate interest that you can later sell. I just can’t see Disney trying to do this, and I’m also not sure it would be legal.

I didn’t say that the rules would no allow you to sell.. they absolutely will.

I said they will put in restrictions on some way like they did with RIV and VDH.

They already have defined Class A and Class B owners.

I just do not see them not having a difference in buying from them vs the resale market.

And rememger, the current rules for restrictions on resale for RIV also say that resale contracts are restricted.

I am not sure they change one without changing the other.

Now, if they totally get rid resale differences together, then I agree that they won’t do it.

Just think the moves DVD has done in the past 11 years support they want it different.

As I said, we shall see

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

I didn’t say that the rules would no allow you to sell.. they absolutely will.

I said they will put in restrictions on some way like they did with RIV and VDH.

They already have defined Class A and Class B owners.

I just do not see them not having a difference in buying from them vs the resale market.

And rememger, the current rules for restrictions on resale for RIV also say that resale contracts are restricted.

I am not sure they change one without changing the other.

Now, if they totally get rid resale differences together, then I agree that they won’t do it.

Just think the moves DVD has done in the past 11 years support they want it different.

As I said, we shall see

I agree, it remains to be seen, and I’m going to remain optimistic. I think this is a positive thing, these types of systems are popular and sell well for a reason. With that said, what kind of resale restrictions are you talking about? As you said, you own trust points, and not points in a specific resort, so there’s no “home resort” that you could be restricted to. What kind of restrictions are you envisioning? I’m having trouble figuring out what they could possibly do.

 

[cdirazonian]

With Marriott Timeshare points, you can purchase them resale from an owner but before you can use them in the system you have to pay Marriott a $3/pt fee to use.

 

[maui22]

Except you don’t own at the resort. You are buying a membership. And I see nothing that would preclude DVD from setting up the POS of the trust to put restrictions on selling your membership interest in the trust.

Who knew they’d ever go the restrictions route.

So, yes, I can definitely see them finding a way to do it.

Wouldn’t the trust still have to abide by the number of points it owns at a resort?

Example, if trust owns 10,000 RIV points they are still tied to UYs. (They also have 10,000 points at the other 4 resorts). In 2025, trust members want to book RIV from F&W through NYE. They will not have enough points to book 40,000 points worth during the 7+ home resort booking window.

If I understand correctly, get the popcorn ready when trust owners see RIV owners booking rooms when the trust is out of points at RIV.

 

[GrumpyInPhilly]

What is the trust and how is going to work?

I asked the same question yesterday.

Here's a response from @intamin :

Refer to this thread
https://www.disboards.com/threads/dvc-club-level-and-home-resort-survey.3935147/page-7#post-65191559
Apparently a bunch of DVC execs are part of this new FL business called the Palmetto Trust Association.

And another one from @Sandisw :
Here!
Thread 'DVC Club Level and Home Resort Survey'
https://www.disboards.com/threads/dvc-club-level-and-home-resort-survey.3935147/
Post #127 has the link to the newly created documents that are pretty interesting to read!

 

[BeachClub2014]

I agree, it remains to be seen, and I’m going to remain optimistic. I think this is a positive thing, these types of systems are popular and sell well for a reason. With that said, what kind of resale restrictions are you talking about? As you said, you own trust points, and not points in a specific resort, so there’s no “home resort” that you could be restricted to. What kind of restrictions are you envisioning? I’m having trouble figuring out what they could possibly do.

Just spitballing, but maybe DVC puts a different booking window for resale points versus direct.

 

[cdirazonian]

Just spitballing, but maybe DVC puts a different booking window for resale points versus direct.

That would be easier all around, but is Disney going to leave money on the table when they can see what’s worked with other companies before? if they knew they could make money I’m sure they’d try to do something like Marriott does with its resale points.

Not saying Disney would do this but they could, as an example Marriott makes the new owner of the resale points pay an additional fee to be able to use them in the system again

example-
In Marriott 1500 points (which don’t get you very far - maybe 2-3nts in a 2 Bedroom in an average/medium season, if your lucky) cost approx $16+ direct purchase equaling $24,000 - $25,000. but resale value is only around $2-$3/pt = $4,500. You lose around 80% when selling.

The resale buyer gets cheap points but then has to pay Marriott a fee to enroll those points sold on the resale market, which I think is around $3/pt, approx another $4,500 to be able to use.

I feel that you lose more when selling points more than when selling a deeded membership. Especially if you own highly sought after week/deed.

Now this is Marriott and just an example, Disney’s resale value has always been higher so maybe Disney’s Trust points would keep its value better just like the deeded points do..but who knows.

 

[Sandisw]

Wouldn’t the trust still have to abide by the number of points it owns at a resort?

Example, if trust owns 10,000 RIV points they are still tied to UYs. (They also have 10,000 points at the other 4 resorts). In 2025, trust members want to book RIV from F&W through NYE. They will not have enough points to book 40,000 points worth during the 7+ home resort booking window.

If I understand correctly, get the popcorn ready when trust owners see RIV owners booking rooms when the trust is out of points at RIV.

Correct…they would be…but who decides which rooms they offer and what days they offer them?

Right now, 100% of the rooms declared into a resort are available every single day and any owner can use some or all of their points to book a room.

What the trust can’t do is pull rooms exclusively for its members up to its amount…ie: if the trust owns 100k points, it doesn’t get to pull 100k worth of rooms from the rest of us.

Of course, if the trust members won’t be able to reserve rooms for resorts that exceeds its point total, but is this creating an unfair advantage for members of the trust vs those of us who bought into the deeded ownership plan?

I know there are other timeshares out there who may have transitioned into both but what are the size od those programs? How many resorts are there that play into this system? We have 16, soon to be only 17. Might not be an easy as it was for them.

 

[Sandisw]

I agree, it remains to be seen, and I’m going to remain optimistic. I think this is a positive thing, these types of systems are popular and sell well for a reason. With that said, what kind of resale restrictions are you talking about? As you said, you own trust points, and not points in a specific resort, so there’s no “home resort” that you could be restricted to. What kind of restrictions are you envisioning? I’m having trouble figuring out what they could possibly do.

Only those trust memberships bought directly from DVD have access to the 11 month booking at all resorts. Those bought on the resale market get a different window.

Since the trust is the actual owner of the deeded interest in the resort, then don’t understand why the POS cant be set up that way.

It’s like now. We are guaranteed only one month advantage but they give us all 4….

Since you are not buying anything but a RTU the rooms that are associated with the trust…seems pretty simple to me that they can set up “access” in anyway they want…

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

I know there are other timeshares out there who may have transitioned into both but what are the size od those programs? How many resorts are there that play into this system? We have 16, soon to be only 17. Might not be an easy as it was for them.

DVC is tiny compared to those resort systems. Club Wyndham advertises that it has 220. I think that may be including Worldmark resorts, but it’s still multiples larger than DVC.

 

[Sandisw]

I want to add too that the DVC resort agreement for RIV, for example, says resale points for current and future resorts bought resale are restricted from exchanging into their resort.

So, letting people get around that by buying resale for the trust, to get access, for me, would be a direct conflict with the RIv POS.

 

[ziravan]

I am starting to feel a little badly for Riviera owners with regards to the Trust. If they launch the trust and don’t remove resale restrictions from Riviera, I don’t see how Rivera resale doesn’t plummet. It won’t go to zero i suppose because there exists a price where people would still snap it up just to stay in Riviera, but if resale trust points can get you into Riv, who would want to buy Riv resale?

Disney wouldn’t have a direct financial incentive to remove the resale restrictions either, because they wouldn’t need to sell Riviera direct anymore, they could just throw the remaining Riviera into the trust and sell trust points. As a result, at least in the beginning, people who own trust points (direct or resale) could have a better ability to book at Riviera than people who own direct at other non-riviera resorts. Finally, if Disney starts selling an upgrade/wash option to convert your deed to trust points, they’d have a real incentive to keep the resale restrictions, to try to incentivize current Riviera owners into “upgrading” their membership. That would be what other timeshare developers would do, I guess it’ll be a test to see if Disney is like everyone else.

My guess is that there won’t be any resale trust points - that, in case of the trust, you’ll have to agree as part of the purchase to “surrender” the points to DVD at a severe discount if you want out.

The whole purpose is to allow DVC to repackage distressed-type contracts and resale them. Why would they want to also compete with those contracts? They won’t.

Great deal but only for you and your family. When you’re ready to walk away you have to give them back.

The Wyndham deal is no more MFs but we aren’t buying them back. They give I think at most two free UYs worth of points to surrender.

 

[Poohspaleeyore]

"Speculate" is in the title of this thread. And speculate we did. People made very good arguments as to why their thoughts were correct and convinced themselves they were right. Weeks. Months. Years? These boards do this ALL THE TIME. And now some people, who convinced themselves of something with zero input from an actual decision maker, are a little peeved. Why did Disney not communicate better? Why this, why that? Meanwhile, I can imagine DVC thinking "why would it NOT be the same resort? It's literally at the same resort. All we did was finish it." We got ourselves all worked up for a decision that, in the end, was really no decision at all IMO. It was fun though.

I agree. I am not a DVC owner but I am a disney fan and have stayed at OKW, AKL- Kindani, and BCV through cash stays and renting points. I enjoy these resorts and feel that television has nothing to offer me so often my nightly entertainment is reading disboard threads, watching Disney related vlogs and following the DVC Fan page on Facebook. I go to WDW an average of every 3 to 4 years. So, the information I come across is useful, but it is also entertainment. IMHO, it does make since that the Poly tower will be in the same association as the current DVC rooms at the Poly and that the points can be booked by current poly owners at 11 months due to the fact that the current DVC rooms are only studios and the new ones will finally offer the much needed larger rooms. It’s kind of like the VGF except in the reverse order. As an outsider looking in or from someone who has nothing to gain or lose, I believe the powers-to-be made the correct decision to keep the new tower in the existing association if in fact that’s what they did.Riviera is a stand alone resort.

 

[DougEMG]

You think they’re going to try to sell a product that you can never resell or give away? That seems highly unlikely to me and would be unique amongst all major timeshare systems. And, in my experience, Disney has never been a trailblazer, they always have copied.

Disney already has a very expensive product that you can never sell or pass on to your children called Club33.

 

[DougEMG]

One of the big selling points of any timeshare is the idea that you own some kind of real estate interest that you can later sell.

If that were true there would not be so many companies willing to help you to unload your timeshare that you can't sell.