Let the Prom Drama begin....Like Aurora, her dress keeps changing

[mamacatnv]

I would LOVE the blue, though!! (But not on my DS - hey I'm a hypocrite!)

It's just hair! You can cut it off or change it - I chanted this just about every time DH saw DS I took DS to his GodParents sons' wedding in Seattle when the hair was blue and his Godfather was having a hard time not giving him a ration of crap while his Godmother who raised 2 boys just kept saying "It's only hair, could be a piercing or a tattoo so what is the deal"

Kids

 

[Sandy V.]

It's just hair! You can cut it off or change it - I chanted this just about every time DH saw DS I took DS to his GodParents sons' wedding in Seattle when the hair was blue and his Godfather was having a hard time not giving him a ration of crap while his Godmother who raised 2 boys just kept saying "It's only hair, could be a piercing or a tattoo so what is the deal"

Kids

True enough, Melissa. There are certainly WORSE things they could do!!

 

[mamacatnv]

True enough, Melissa. There are certainly WORSE things they could do!!

That's kinda my working theory with DS and so far it has been okay. I think he secretly wants a tattoo but is too afraid of me as he should be

Now, DD is only 8 we shall see.................

 

[Sandy V.]

That's kinda my working theory with DS and so far it has been okay. I think he secretly wants a tattoo but is too afraid of me as he should be

Now, DD is only 8 we shall see.................

Mine tease about getting one; we just tell them that when they're 18 and pay for it themselves, they can go ahead and get one. I think DD considers it from time to time, but she's a chicken at heart, so I'd be surprised if she gets one in the near future.

As for DS . . . who knows?!!

My two are so different. Same parents, same environment, but they are definitely NOT the male and female clones of one another!!!!

 

[mamacatnv]

My two are so different. Same parents, same environment, but they are definitely NOT the male and female clones of one another!!!!

Same with mine - totally opposite ends of the spectrum from each other and have been since the day they were born!


DD is actually the one that scares me - she has been very easy since birth. Too good to be true comes to mind, especially after DS when we know what the "hard" ones can be like.

There is a reason our kids are 9 years apart, it took us that long to get brave enough to roll the dice again

DS was a very hard baby/toddler(screamed for a solid year and I swear didn't sleep until he was 2) then he was a super active kid who never shut up! Used to drive his teachers crazy, they loved him since he is very charming but at the same time they wanted to strangle him. Those were the years of lots of parent/teacher involvement.

His 8th grade Spanish teacher called me because "he was taking over her class" Yep, given the opportunity, that is what he will do I told her, she needed to have a sit down with him and get his attention!
However, no issues with adolescence we always figured we had paid our dues with him. Teachers now love him, he still doesn't shut up but somewhere in the transititon into H.S. it became acceptable.

Maybe we earned extra credit with him and DD will continue to be easy!

 

[Sandy V.]

DD was "the perfect scholar". Does every homework assignment, checks her work before handing it in, participates in class, helps others around her to understand the material, etc., you get the picture. Teachers ADORED her.

DS is every bit as bright, but he's much more irreverent. Doesn't take things nearly as seriously as DD did. While she used to break out in a sweat if her average in a class dropped below a 97, DS is perfectly happy with a 90 because it still gets him the "A" (in our school district, may be different in yours). He's more of a class clown and a talker. Also tries to charm his way through things rather than working!

The hardest part was when DS took a class with the same teacher that DD had. We have had some difficult moments when the instructor came in expecting DS to behave exactly like DD did, and he/she would make comments and comparisons to DS and to me about how different they were. Usually these have not been complimentary to DS because teachers tend to love the compliant ones, which DS is not. I have had to look many a teacher in the eye and say, "Yes, they are siblings, but they are INDIVIDUALS and you need to appreciate the positives that each brings to your class." That's my most frustrating part of the school system!

 

[horseshowmom]

The hardest part was when DS took a class with the same teacher that DD had. We have had some difficult moments when the instructor came in expecting DS to behave exactly like DD did, and he/she would make comments and comparisons to DS and to me about how different they were. Usually these have not been complimentary to DS because teachers tend to love the compliant ones, which DS is not. I have had to look many a teacher in the eye and say, "Yes, they are siblings, but they are INDIVIDUALS and you need to appreciate the positives that each brings to your class." That's my most frustrating part of the school system!

You know, I've never understood this. Generally, teachers (including me when I was still in the classroom) wind up having siblings over the years. Why is it that people are surprised that the kids aren't exactly the same? I mean, really, are their own kids exactly alike? My brother and I sure weren't, and because he wasn't the student I was, he suffered in comparison. On the flip side, now he probably makes twice what I make (and he never even went to college ).

 

[horseshowmom]

There is a reason our kids are 9 years apart, it took us that long to get brave enough to roll the dice again

I've got a friend who makes the exact same statement (although in her case she only waited 5 or 6 years). The second one is now in high school and still just as "easy" as ever.

I think he secretly wants a tattoo but is too afraid of me as he should be

We were in Destin and saw several tattoo shops. DD's BF was joking and said that he thought one of those barbed wire ones might look good on him. I asked him if he was planning on getting a new GF (as in real soon). He laughed and said that I didn't have to worry. He'd be too scared to go home and let his mother see it!

 

[Sandy V.]

You know, I've never understood this. Generally, teachers (including me when I was still in the classroom) wind up having siblings over the years. Why is it that people are surprised that the kids aren't exactly the same? I mean, really, are their own kids exactly alike? My brother and I sure weren't, and because he wasn't the student I was, he suffered in comparison. On the flip side, now he probably makes twice what I make (and he never even went to college ).

It's always been a bigger issue than I thought it should be. I agree; I don't understand why these teachers fail to recognize that they are making these comparisons and that they shouldn't be (at least according to my way of thinking). I always thought you were supposed to teach the children you HAVE in your class; not the ones you WISH you had!

Honestly, we've had mostly positive teaching experiences, but a few of the negative ones do tend to stand out!

 

[mamacatnv]

Morning Ladies:

Re: The teacher thing

I am 8 1/2 months younger than my brother and we got compared all the time. I was the "good girl" I recently found our K-2nd grade report cards. My brother asked me "well, how did I do?" my response "Not nearly as good as me" we are 41 & 42 and the sibling rivalry continues

My Dh is the oldest of 6 - they are spread over 15 years - they all went to the same schools. When my Brother in Law (next to youngest) came along he was quite the trouble maker and the teachers used to ask him "Are there any more of you?" Then along came the baby of the family and she got all the grief!

I think my kids are far enough apart that we won't have much of that issue - but I agree with you guys, why do people (not just teachers) lump them together and have the same expectations either good or bad of all siblings? I know identical twins that are polar opposites!

Horseshowmom:
Your DD's BF is obviously a keeper since he still thinks about what Mama would think! Good Boy

Sandy:
My DD is a lot like your DD - she is little Miss. Compliant and her brother is the "whatever" kinda kid - I think it is good that she follows in his footsteps and not the other way around. She gives him crap about how her report card is better, how she has never gotten in trouble at school (the poor thing would have a total meltdown if that happened) etc....... My DD is a planner and has her homework and projects done the day she gets it where DS is up the night before it is due pulling it all together.

Where I think the whole thing is sad is when parents find themselves falling into the same patterns and trying to hold one kid to the accomplishments of another.

We have a family here that has 2 kids the oldest is a super athlete and a total punk. The middle is a good athlete and a great kid but his parents constantly compare him to his older brother. We have watched this poor kid try and live up to his parents expectations for years and continually be shot down because he didn't do it like his brother. Now his brother is a total screw up but since all the parents focus on is athletics that is all they see. They don't see that the younger kid is a good student and a very nice kid to have around. They don't see that the oldest is pompous, disrespectful and a bully. All they see is that he was a walk on to a college team. They are so proud!

 

[Sandy V.]

Where I think the whole thing is sad is when parents find themselves falling into the same patterns and trying to hold one kid to the accomplishments of another.

Agreed. Some of this stuff is "Basic Parenting 101" and folks still flunk the course!!

 

[horseshowmom]

Now his brother is a total screw up but since all the parents focus on is athletics that is all they see. They don't see that the younger kid is a good student and a very nice kid to have around. They don't see that the oldest is pompous, disrespectful and a bully. All they see is that he was a walk on to a college team. They are so proud!

That's a shame. The younger kid is obviously the better example of what you'd want a kid to be. Sounds like a case of the parents trying to live vicariously through the older boy's accomplishments. Not only sad but really disgusting since the younger boy is made to feel less worthy.

Horseshowmom:
Your DD's BF is obviously a keeper since he still thinks about what Mama would think! Good Boy

His mom is barely over 5 feet tall, but those two boys wouldn't dream of giving her a hard time (they know better ).

 

[mamacatnv]

That's a shame. The younger kid is obviously the better example of what you'd want a kid to be. Sounds like a case of the parents trying to live vicariously through the older boy's accomplishments. Not only sad but really disgusting since the younger boy is made to feel less worthy.

Isn't it sad how many of them are out there

His mom is barely over 5 feet tall, but those two boys wouldn't dream of giving her a hard time (they know better ).

Love it! A friend asked my son one day, "so, how did you turn out so good?" Son says "I am still afraid of her" as he points to me AS IT SHOULD BE

Agreed. Some of this stuff is "Basic Parenting 101" and folks still flunk the course!!

Don't you just feel out numbered by idiots some days?

 

[Sandy V.]

Good afternoon, everyone. A couple of crazy days at work, I tell ya.

DS worked his first day yesterday with the landscaping company. Came home only slightly sunburnt, which was a good thing. First lesson he learned - you go to work and THEN come home and take your shower. Not before you leave for work in the morning!! But he liked the guys he's working with and the firm owner is one of DH's clients, so he made sure to put DS on a "good" crew.

DD cleaned out the kitchen pantry for me yesterday. Could not believe how much JUNK was in there. She's working on the hall closet today. Unfortunately for her, there are a whole list of places around here that need her attention.

Saw a mother deer and an almost newborn fawn in the neighboring yard several days ago - so cute. Tundra and a fox accidently ran into each other this morning as both were coming around the corner of the house. She chased, but of course, couldn't come close to catching it. Heck, she wouldn't know what to do with it if she DID.

Not much else going on around here. Pam, I've been thinking about you and hope that all is going reasonably well. We're here if you ever need to vent.

I hope that everyone else is also doing well. Check in when you can!!

 

[horseshowmom]

Everything's pretty good here too...

DD's BF has gone to some training workshops for his new job (gone for a couple of days this week and then another week and a half in July). He was a little nervous, but he'll do fine. He's also starting to deal with hearing from everybody who wants everything when the school year starts (which comes from returning to the small school where you grew up and everybody knows you ).

DD and DH finished VBS this week, and I think they're glad. They had one little boy (going into 4th grade) who was a "hitter". He hit DD one day, and then hit another adult today. He was really ugly to the other kids too. Unfortunately, they said his two siblings were about as bad as he was (and these kids come from a very "good" home). All 3 kids were adopted after the parents tried for years and years to have children. I think the kids are just basically spoiled rotten - sure no favor to the kids.

I've spent the day getting ready for a week long workshop next week for 30 teachers. I think everything is ready to go, and I'm going to take tomorrow off!!!



Sandy V. - Tell your son to keep up the good work. I know it's really hard though. But tell him to just keep remembering that by the end of the summer he'll be a bronzed, muscled god, and the girls will fall at his feet!

Tell DD that there are more closets in Mississippi (probably even more challenging than yours! ) and to feel free to put me on her list.

Tell Tundra that it sounds like he's got that chasing thing down to a fine art - close enough to make it look real without actually having to deal with catching the fox. Smart dog!



Pam, same as with Sandy V., hope things are getting a little better...

 

[mamacatnv]

Do you ever have those days when you are just hungry and no amount of negotiating with yourself or will power is going to convince you otherwise?

Well I am having one of those days I hate these kind of days. I would eat the knobs off the cabinets if I could figure out how to get the salt to stick to them

Sandy:
I love reading of your daily antics with your animals!

Fox: 1 Tundra: 0
Game to be continued

What is it about your family and liking to clean? That is just not normal

Pam:
Thinking about you



Okay girls, help me out

DH and I are having vacation dilemma............. (nothing new with me )

We are taking the kids to Texas to go to Schlitterbahn water park in 1 month. Schlitterbahn is located right in the middle between San Antonio and Austin. We fly into Austin on a Wednesday afternoon and depart out of Austin 10 days later on a Saturday morning.

Details:
We are booked for 10 nights @ $200 per in a 1 bdrm. apt. w/ complete kitchen at the Schlitterbahn resort. The accomodations are old and not grand by any means, but we will be on the waterpark property.
We will be buying season passes for ease of coming and going.

Tentative Itinerary:
Wed night - food shopping & check in.
Thur/Fri: Waterpark
Sat: Caverns
Sun: San Antonio Riverwalk & Alamo
Mon: Sea World San Antonio
Tues/Wed: Water Park
Thur: Tube float the local river or another day at Sea World or Zoo etc.
Fri: Water park & tubing
Sat: 9:15 a.m. flight home


DH and I are talking about Wed-Wed doing the water park, tube the river and the caverns and staying at the resort as scheduled

Then heading to San Antonio on Wed. morning where for less than $200 a night we can stay in a 4-diamond hotel on the river walk. Giving us Wed, Thur and Fri to enjoy the sites in San Antonio along with Sea World.

The big drawback to this scenario is:
1. Losing our kitchen
2. Having to make a 80 - 90 mile drive back to Austin to catch that early 9:15 morning flight home. We did throw around the idea of departing on Friday afternoon and heading back to Austin which is an option also.

Part of me wants to just plant it at Schlitterbahn and drive to where ever we want to go for the day and part of me thinks a posh hotel on the riverwalk might be worth the packing up and moving.

I am very worried about how we will hold up to the heat and humidity. We may decide that Sea World, Zoo etc. is out due to the heat and the rivers and water park are in.

I could keep my ressie at the waterpark and book an additional ressie in San Antonio and then make the decision when we get there and then just cancel what we are not going to use.

What do you all think????????????
Do we stay all 10 days or do we break it up???????

BTW - I do this with every vacation............do we do this or that? do we stay here or there? etc..............I think I drive my DH crazy.
This trip is a surprise so getting input from the youngins is not an option

 

[Sandy V.]

DD and DH finished VBS this week, and I think they're glad. They had one little boy (going into 4th grade) who was a "hitter". He hit DD one day, and then hit another adult today. He was really ugly to the other kids too. Unfortunately, they said his two siblings were about as bad as he was (and these kids come from a very "good" home). All 3 kids were adopted after the parents tried for years and years to have children. I think the kids are just basically spoiled rotten - sure no favor to the kids.

I've spent the day getting ready for a week long workshop next week for 30 teachers. I think everything is ready to go, and I'm going to take tomorrow off!!!



Sandy V. - Tell your son to keep up the good work. I know it's really hard though. But tell him to just keep remembering that by the end of the summer he'll be a bronzed, muscled god, and the girls will fall at his feet!

Tell DD that there are more closets in Mississippi (probably even more challenging than yours! ) and to feel free to put me on her list.

Tell Tundra that it sounds like he's got that chasing thing down to a fine art - close enough to make it look real without actually having to deal with catching the fox. Smart dog!

Have a good day off tomorrow, Horseshowmom.

Sorry about the "hitter". I hope he didn't hurt your DD.

I grew up with this family who had 2 kids who were adopted. These parents spoiled these kids absolutely rotten. The boy was a year younger than me and was failing a grade. Instead of letting him repeat, the father tried to move the kid AHEAD a grade! Fortunately, the school held firm and wouldn't let him do it. I think some adoptive parents try to "compensate" for what they perceive as the unfairness/tragedy of being adopted by giving the kid everything he wants and they fail to implement any discipline or structure.

DS has already thought of the "Bronzed God" statue he'll be posing for when school starts this fall!!

And I would LOVE to lend you DD to clean your closets when she finishes here, but I hope you can wait a few months because that's how long it's going to take for her to finish what I need her to do. After that, if you buy the plane ticket, she'll be on her way to Mississippi before you know it! But I just want you to know that no matter how messy your closets are - mine are worse - trust me on this one!!

And Tundra is a sweetheart, but she is SO SLOW (think "lumbering" rather than sprinting) that you could time this pooch with a calendar!!!

 

[Sandy V.]

Do you ever have those days when you are just hungry and no amount of negotiating with yourself or will power is going to convince you otherwise?

Well I am having one of those days I hate these kind of days. I would eat the knobs off the cabinets if I could figure out how to get the salt to stick to them

Sandy:
I love reading of your daily antics with your animals!

Fox: 1 Tundra: 0
Game to be continued

What is it about your family and liking to clean? That is just not normal

Pam:
Thinking about you



Okay girls, help me out

DH and I are having vacation dilemma............. (nothing new with me )

We are taking the kids to Texas to go to Schlitterbahn water park in 1 month. Schlitterbahn is located right in the middle between San Antonio and Austin. We fly into Austin on a Wednesday afternoon and depart out of Austin 10 days later on a Saturday morning.

Details:
We are booked for 10 nights @ $200 per in a 1 bdrm. apt. w/ complete kitchen at the Schlitterbahn resort. The accomodations are old and not grand by any means, but we will be on the waterpark property.
We will be buying season passes for ease of coming and going.

Tentative Itinerary:
Wed night - food shopping & check in.
Thur/Fri: Waterpark
Sat: Caverns
Sun: San Antonio Riverwalk & Alamo
Mon: Sea World San Antonio
Tues/Wed: Water Park
Thur: Tube float the local river or another day at Sea World or Zoo etc.
Fri: Water park & tubing
Sat: 9:15 a.m. flight home


DH and I are talking about Wed-Wed doing the water park, tube the river and the caverns and staying at the resort as scheduled

Then heading to San Antonio on Wed. morning where for less than $200 a night we can stay in a 4-diamond hotel on the river walk. Giving us Wed, Thur and Fri to enjoy the sites in San Antonio along with Sea World.

The big drawback to this scenario is:
1. Losing our kitchen
2. Having to make a 80 - 90 mile drive back to Austin to catch that early 9:15 morning flight home. We did throw around the idea of departing on Friday afternoon and heading back to Austin which is an option also.

Part of me wants to just plant it at Schlitterbahn and drive to where ever we want to go for the day and part of me thinks a posh hotel on the riverwalk might be worth the packing up and moving.

I am very worried about how we will hold up to the heat and humidity. We may decide that Sea World, Zoo etc. is out due to the heat and the rivers and water park are in.

I could keep my ressie at the waterpark and book an additional ressie in San Antonio and then make the decision when we get there and then just cancel what we are not going to use.

What do you all think????????????
Do we stay all 10 days or do we break it up???????

BTW - I do this with every vacation............do we do this or that? do we stay here or there? etc..............I think I drive my DH crazy.
This trip is a surprise so getting input from the youngins is not an option

Unfortunately, I have had too many of those big appetite days lately, much to the misfortunate of my waistline! It's hard to get things under control. And I'm meeting a friend for drinks after work today, so there goes any chance of making things right today!!

Cabinet knobs and salt?!?!?

You have to understand - cleaning only happens at my house out of desperation, when I'm pissed, or when I can talk my children into doing it for me. The rest of the time, the cobwebs win.

As for your vacation, hmmmm, I guess that I would make a dual reservation in San Antonio so that you have an "escape clause" if you aren't as pleased with the Water Park and its accommodations as you thought you might be. I might also make a reservation for Austin for the night before your flight - I don't know about your family, but mine does NOT travel well early in the morning when we're trying to scramble to catch a plane!!

As for the kitchen, many deluxe accommodations have a refrigerator and microwave in the room. Can you make do with that for a few days for breakfast and eat lunch and dinner out? San Antonio is supposed to have some of the most wonderful Tex-Mex restaurants. It would be a shame not to indulge while you're there.

Am glad that my animal stories keep you amused - there are so many "critters" around here this time of year. I haven't seen any bears yet - but they ARE around. They're still up in the foothills while the berry crop is good, but they'll start raiding trash cans as soon as the supply dwindles.

Talk to you soon!!

 

[mamacatnv]

Horseshowmom:
Glad your DH and DD enjoyed VBS, they can be a lot of fun but sure are a lot of work!

A hitter at 2 is one thing but 4th grade Parents need to get a handle or they are in for some serious trouble!

Enjoy your day off!
What, no hotels with maid service in your future I'm sorry

Sandy:
Bronze God
We take pictures of DS's tan line at the end of the summer

Have fun going out for drinks.........alcohol can be my downfall "points" wise along with the fact that I love bar food. If it is fried and they toss me some ranch dressing to dip it in, I will most likely eat it. I especially like chicken wings!

Thanks for the input on the vacation - now DH is proposing we go to San Antonio directly upon arrival and stay Wed-Sun, and then go to the water park & resort for the Sun-Sat! Gheeeesh, I give......................

We do plan on eating dinners out (I am currently compiling a list of "must do's" with a co-worker who grew up in the area) The kitchen is for breakfast & lunches along with daily snacks and drinks.

I think the kids would be disappointed unless we told them that Schlitterbahn was in their near future since they think they are sitting on a beach in San Diego and the RiverWalk and San Antonio Zoo is not what they had in mind.

So, when is Tundra getting her bath?????



We discovered that our fat cat Simon, loves cantalope the other night. We knew he liked peas, chocolate ice cream and Baileys Irish cream along with Scotch on the rocks Other than that, my pets are not very interesting, just fat and lazy.

As a side note, I have some friends (good, strong parents) who adopted 2 kids, these kids are beasts! The oldest just finished NOT Graduating from H.S., he is a trouble maker, thief, liar etc. and the youngest who is Middle School age is better but still very hard to handle. They can both also be amazingly sweet, helpful, polite and loving.

These kids have been a pain in everyones side for years. I think out of desperation the parents finally filled us all in about 3 years ago.
Both of the kids suffer from Fetal Alcohol Syndrome from their respective birth mothers. Unfortunately, some of the side effects are the behavior these kids exhibit. I think the parents spent many years thinking they could parent it out of them, but alas, that lack of remorse and guilt for their actions cannot be trained into their brains. It is actually very sad and makes me thankful every day for my healthy children.


Have a great evening all.............

 

[Piper]

Do you ever have those days when you are just hungry and no amount of negotiating with yourself or will power is going to convince you otherwise?

Well I am having one of those days I hate these kind of days. I would eat the knobs off the cabinets if I could figure out how to get the salt to stick to them

Sandy:
I love reading of your daily antics with your animals!

Fox: 1 Tundra: 0
Game to be continued

What is it about your family and liking to clean? That is just not normal

Pam:
Thinking about you



Okay girls, help me out

DH and I are having vacation dilemma............. (nothing new with me )

We are taking the kids to Texas to go to Schlitterbahn water park in 1 month. Schlitterbahn is located right in the middle between San Antonio and Austin. We fly into Austin on a Wednesday afternoon and depart out of Austin 10 days later on a Saturday morning.

Details:
We are booked for 10 nights @ $200 per in a 1 bdrm. apt. w/ complete kitchen at the Schlitterbahn resort. The accomodations are old and not grand by any means, but we will be on the waterpark property.
We will be buying season passes for ease of coming and going.

Tentative Itinerary:
Wed night - food shopping & check in.
Thur/Fri: Waterpark
Sat: Caverns
Sun: San Antonio Riverwalk & Alamo
Mon: Sea World San Antonio
Tues/Wed: Water Park
Thur: Tube float the local river or another day at Sea World or Zoo etc.
Fri: Water park & tubing
Sat: 9:15 a.m. flight home


DH and I are talking about Wed-Wed doing the water park, tube the river and the caverns and staying at the resort as scheduled

Then heading to San Antonio on Wed. morning where for less than $200 a night we can stay in a 4-diamond hotel on the river walk. Giving us Wed, Thur and Fri to enjoy the sites in San Antonio along with Sea World.

The big drawback to this scenario is:
1. Losing our kitchen
2. Having to make a 80 - 90 mile drive back to Austin to catch that early 9:15 morning flight home. We did throw around the idea of departing on Friday afternoon and heading back to Austin which is an option also.

Part of me wants to just plant it at Schlitterbahn and drive to where ever we want to go for the day and part of me thinks a posh hotel on the riverwalk might be worth the packing up and moving.

I am very worried about how we will hold up to the heat and humidity. We may decide that Sea World, Zoo etc. is out due to the heat and the rivers and water park are in.

I could keep my ressie at the waterpark and book an additional ressie in San Antonio and then make the decision when we get there and then just cancel what we are not going to use.

What do you all think????????????
Do we stay all 10 days or do we break it up???????

BTW - I do this with every vacation............do we do this or that? do we stay here or there? etc..............I think I drive my DH crazy.
This trip is a surprise so getting input from the youngins is not an option

Just a suggestion from a lurker--Why not spend 6 nights at Schlitterbahn--2 nights at the Riverwalk (that's plenty of time)--then 2 nights in Austin (visit the capital, the parks, the lakes--lots to do there.) Then you can leave from Austin without a lot of driving!