Less Than Impressed

[brentm77]

My wife, and now our two children, have been going to Disneyland one to two times a year for the past 17 years of our marriage. Our visit this week made me rethink future trips for awhile for a couple of reasons:

1) Crowds - the parks have been getting more and more crowded without any relief in sight. Although touring plans had Disneyland at a 6 on the day we went, it felt like a 9 to me. The crowds have reached a point where it is exhausting to me just to get from one area of the park to another. There is a sea of people everywhere you go, many walking to slow that it holds up everyone behind them, or worse, having a group discussion right in the only walkway through a particular area. Disney has done a poor job of avoiding bottlenecks over the past 15 years (for example, sticking the astro orbiters at the entrance to Tomorrowland, building the Tarzan entrance smack in the middle of the walkway in Adventureland, extending the Pirates line over the already narrow bridge), and now it is becoming painful with the crowd levels. It is to the point where the crowds take much of the magic and fun out of the day, despite my usually optimistic attitude.

2) Lack of anything new - As we rode Indiana Jones, it really hit home how, on the Disneyland side, they haven't invested in new rides at the quality level of Indiana Jones since it was built decades ago. It made me nostalgic for the years were you could expect a great new ride (Splash, Indie, Star Tours) every few years. The classic rides are still great, but they need to add new things to get people out of the walkways and into lines.

3) The general sense that the guest experience is less important to Disney. For example, the new thing where they take your picture when you re-enter the park. We waited for a good 20 minutes when re-entering at 3:00 in the afternoon, despite only about 10 people in front of us. The woman couldn't get here device to work, and it takes a lot of time to take everyones picture. I asked why they did that and she said to prevent fraud. Ok, so Disney can prevent a few people from reselling a multi-day ticket, thereby making a few more dollars, at the expense of me wasting 20 minutes of my day. If you want to prevent fraud, it shouldn't be at a cost to me, a highly-paying guest.

4) The park being effectively shut-down during fireworks. This has a lot to do with crowds, but I think it warrants a separate point. I don't like that Fantasyland closes during fireworks (it hasn't always been like that). With Toontown closed, that means that for several hours you are really only going to be able to move around in Tomorrowland. Main Street is packed with everyone waiting for fireworks, and New Orleans Square is overflowing with Fantasmic viewers.

5) Rides breaking down. With fast passes in hand, we made several treks across Disneyland to ride Indiana Jones, only to be told it had broken down both times. Last October it broke down twice while we were waiting in line. Luckily, we didn't have issues with other rides closing, but from what I have read on these boards, it is becoming very common. I suspect it is that they are running these rides into the ground because of the high crowd levels for most of the year now.

There were other things too, but this is long enough. Sorry for the negative post. It was just so sad to realize that Disneyland is losing its magic to me. Luckily, my girls still love it. So I may continue to go for them. But I hope that Disney starts to think more about the guest experience. I know they can do it - my Disney cruise last years was magical and perfect. On the other hand, maybe that will never happen because people seem to still go to the park in droves. Am I the only one who feels this way?

 

[rizzle64]

I've felt the same at times, especially with the crowds. However, what can be done? DL is built on such a small area, I'm not sure how much more they can expand. I've always felt DTD was sorta a waste of space and that area could have been used to greatly expand the parks.

As far as new attractions, I know it's not specifically DL, but they did pour over a billion dollars into Cars Land. The problem is, the more attractions they add and renovate the more people that come to Disney, so new stuff doesn't help the crowd situation either.

I think one of the only things they can do to deter large crowds is raise prices, and they are steadily doing that.

 

[GatorChris]

I'm definitely with you on #4. When I go to WDW, the MK will close at 7 or 8pm. Do you know when the fireworks go off? 7 or 8pm - exactly when the park "closes". When I go to Disneyland, Fantasyland and Toontown are down 45 minutes prior to fireworks, which they set off 30 minutes before park closing. So when the fireworks end 10 minutes later and you want to catch Alice or Peter, forget it. That part of the park is down 75 to 90 minutes before park hours end. It probably has to do with some stupid California regulation that some Sacramento nutter came up with, but either way, I don't like it.

And yes, DL could definitely use a new attraction. Why they don't take Captain Eo and turn it into Mickey's Philharmagic or some other fun attraction is a mystery. Yeah, Disney, just let it sit and bring back a relic that no one cares for. They could certainly use improvement here, if only WDW didn't burn on the company capital on that lame FP+.

 

[whoever]

3) The general sense that the guest experience is less important to Disney. For example, the new thing where they take your picture when you re-enter the park. We waited for a good 20 minutes when re-entering at 3:00 in the afternoon, despite only about 10 people in front of us. The woman couldn't get here device to work, and it takes a lot of time to take everyones picture. I asked why they did that and she said to prevent fraud. Ok, so Disney can prevent a few people from reselling a multi-day ticket, thereby making a few more dollars, at the expense of me wasting 20 minutes of my day. If you want to prevent fraud, it shouldn't be at a cost to me, a highly-paying guest.

They should have a separately staffed area for this, and only when your picture has already been taken should you get in line at the turnstyles. Not sure why they aren't doing this.

 

[whoever]

It probably has to do with some stupid California regulation that some Sacramento nutter came up with, but either way, I don't like it..

While one should never doubt the lunacy of Sacramento nutters, its due to pyrotechnics being launched from either directly behind toon town, or from the top of the Alice/PP show buildings. Blame Disney's Lawyers on this one.

 

[brentm77]

You raise valid points. Though I do think room could be found at Disneyland for some expansion - where the motorboats used to be, for example. Or on the other side of the train tracks, as they did with Indie.

I have not actually seen Cars Land yet. Hopefully I will be there tomorrow or Saturday (got really sick at the end of the day on Tuesday, which delayed our plans for a bit).

The sickness at the end of the day sure didn't help my impressions. But my disappointment started long before that. Maybe it was just an off-day for me in general. Hopefully California Adventures will be a better experience. Annual passes are blocked out partially tomorrow and fully on Saturday. The downside is that it is grad night both nights. Any guesses on which day will be less crowded?

 

[whoever]

Annual passes are blocked out partially tomorrow

Hopefully that will result in a light day at the park. Can't wait. I'll be there tonight, and most of the day tomorrow, so I've got my fingers crossed.

 

[wdwrich]

I have to agree on most points the OP makes. DW and I just let our premium APs expire. We'll be taking a year or so off from DLR for many of the same reasons.

 

[figment_jii]

1) Crowds - the parks have been getting more and more crowded without any relief in sight.

As the PP mentioned, they have been steadily raising ticket prices and they suspended sales of new SoCal APs, so in some ways, they are doing something. Aside from increased ticket prices, I don't know they really can (or even should) do anything else to reduce crowds.

2) Lack of anything new - As we rode Indiana Jones, it really hit home how, on the Disneyland side, they haven't invested in new rides at the quality level of Indiana Jones since it was built decades ago.

As the PP pointed out, they were focused on improving the guest experience over in DCA for the last several years. Most people seem to think they've done a good job with Buena Vista Street and Carsland. I suppose the hardest part about expanding DL is the lack of space, so a new "big" ride is going to have to come at the expense of something else (e.g., Nemo Subs or something like that). They did spruce up Star Tours (2010) and Big Thunder (2014) recently. There are rumors of new rides being planned, but much of that is in doubt because of WDW's Next Gen issues.

3) The general sense that the guest experience is less important to Disney. For example, the new thing where they take your picture when you re-enter the park.

This was done to combat the problem people "renting" out tickets as you noted. Overall, the system is much better now than it was when they first debuted it. I know it can be annoying to have to wait, but I feel that they needed to do something to cut down on the scamming and illegal renting of tickets. I suppose they could have implemented WDW's finger scan system, but they were be detractors from that system as well. Look at it this way, if you are (like most everyone else) a "highly-paying guest" why wouldn't you want everyone else to have to play by the same rules?

4) The park being effectively shut-down during fireworks. This has a lot to do with crowds, but I think it warrants a separate point. I don't like that Fantasyland closes during fireworks (it hasn't always been like that).

They started to close Fantasyland when they began shooting fireworks off the castle. It's not really all that new. The best I can suggest is if this really bothers you, head over to DCA during fireworks/Fantasmic.

Am I the only one who feels this way?

I wouldn't say your the only one who feels that things are too crowded or that Disney is in someway losing it's magic to them. I agree that the it's crowded and I wish there were better ways to do some things, but I don't let that color my entire view of a trip. I still feel that a tough day in Disneyland is better than being almost anywhere else. So I accept the crowds and new procedures as part of the process.

If you really think DLR is that bad, you should write a letter to Guest Services to let them know.

They should have a separately staffed area for this, and only when your picture has already been taken should you get in line at the turnstyles. Not sure why they aren't doing this.

While I think this is great idea...can you imagine the difficulty it would be to implement it in reality? I'm always amazed the number of people who say they do not know if they've had the picture taken yet when the CM asks them. On the other hand, maybe if you made them go somewhere different they'd remember better!

Annual passes are blocked out partially tomorrow and fully on Saturday. The downside is that it is grad night both nights. Any guesses on which day will be less crowded?

Just a note, but the Premium AP will still be valid on Saturday. The SoCal Select, SoCal, and Deluxe APs will be blocked on Saturday, but they do that because they know day guests will be there in force and make up the difference. So please do not go expecting low(er) crowds...it'll probably just set you up for more disappointment. Despite the AP, I would still expect that Friday will be less crowded than Saturday. On Friday, some kids will still be in school and folks have to work. Crowds generally increase during the day, but if you go at rope drop, you should be able to get a fair amount done.

 

[whjensen]

While one should never doubt the lunacy of Sacramento nutters, its due to pyrotechnics being launched from either directly behind toon town, or from the top of the Alice/PP show buildings. Blame Disney's Lawyers on this one.

I think the thing is...when you've experienced the MK fireworks from directly behind Cinderella's castle, it feels weird to then see DL basically close down. When we were at MK in 2006, that was the situation. Standing in Fantasyland, looking up at the castle with the fireworks basically going off above us. Perhaps the show back then was different enough that the safety rules are more stringent now.

 

[brentm77]

"This was done to combat the problem people "renting" out tickets as you noted. Overall, the system is much better now than it was when they first debuted it. I know it can be annoying to have to wait, but I feel that they needed to do something to cut down on the scamming and illegal renting of tickets. I suppose they could have implemented WDW's finger scan system, but they were be detractors from that system as well. Look at it this way, if you are (like most everyone else) a "highly-paying guest" why wouldn't you want everyone else to have to play by the same rules?"

We will just have to disagree on this one. I don't really care if the guests standing next to me paid the same as me or played by the same rules. Life isn't fair sometimes. How much money could Disney possibly be losing from renting tickets? They still sold the original ticket in the first place. So, someone got one day for the price of five. It isn't as if they didn't make any money off the person. I don't think it is moral, but I won't leave sleep over it.

I don't fault Disney either for trying to avoid the problem, but it shouldn't come at the guests' expense. 20 minutes may not sound like a big deal, but when you only have one day at Disneyland, it means one less ride. It also is time spent for nothing - i.e., no ride as the payoff for your wait. It also seems so unnecessary. They had me write my name on the ticket in permanent marker, why not just check my ID like they said they would in the morning? It takes 10 second to do that and would be nearly as effective.

As far as heading over to DCA when Disneyland is crowded - that isn't an option when you only buy one day non-park hopper ticket. I could never justify buying a park hopper when we can't get on everything at Disneyland that we want in one day anyway. There isn't time for us to park hop.

Again, maybe this was just an off-day for me. But it just didn't feel the same as it has in the past.

 

[brentm77]

"Just a note, but the Premium AP will still be valid on Saturday. The SoCal Select, SoCal, and Deluxe APs will be blocked on Saturday, but they do that because they know day guests will be there in force and make up the difference. So please do not go expecting low(er) crowds...it'll probably just set you up for more disappointment. Despite the AP, I would still expect that Friday will be less crowded than Saturday. On Friday, some kids will still be in school and folks have to work. Crowds generally increase during the day, but if you go at rope drop, you should be able to get a fair amount done."

Thanks for the tip.

 

[figment_jii]

It also seems so unnecessary. They had me write my name on the ticket in permanent marker, why not just check my ID like they said they would in the morning? It takes 10 second to do that and would be nearly as effective.

I have a feeling we are going to disagree on most things, but in response to this point...they were doing that initially (write the name on the ticket, then sign it), but it actually made things a lot slower than the current photos system. Guests had to fumble in wallets/pockets/purses to find IDs that had their name and Signature on it.

You did mention that the CM at the gate seemed to be having problems with the camera device, so this might have slowed things down considerably. I've been to DLR a lot since the signature/photo system was put into place and while it has slowed down entry, I've not had to wait 20 minutes for 10 people to enter ahead of me. It's usually much faster than that or if it's that long, then the lines to get in are already super long to begin with.

 

[Drusilla99]

I'm an ap & go about once a month and have been for over a decade,probably close to two. If it's crowded, I have the ability to call it a day early & try again next week, so if it was a once a year type of thing, the crowds would annoy me. The thing I have been noticing over the past few years is the decline in cm friendliness & customer service. Many I come in contact with are quite rude in fact. I'm sure the majority are very nice & professional, but the ones I seem to get stuck with are not having good days, to say the least. Except for the cm's at tot, they are always great!

 

[WebmasterMaryJo]

Sometimes, it's a good idea to step away and do other things that will be worth your hard-earned money. It's frustrating to save and go only to run into so many issues, plus have un-planned ride closures at the same time.

I'm going to give my opinions on your views.

My wife, and now our two children, have been going to Disneyland one to two times a year for the past 17 years of our marriage. Our visit this week made me rethink future trips for awhile for a couple of reasons:

1) Crowds - the parks have been getting more and more crowded without any relief in sight. Although touring plans had Disneyland at a 6 on the day we went, it felt like a 9 to me. The crowds have reached a point where it is exhausting to me just to get from one area of the park to another. There is a sea of people everywhere you go, many walking to slow that it holds up everyone behind them, or worse, having a group discussion right in the only walkway through a particular area. Disney has done a poor job of avoiding bottlenecks over the past 15 years (for example, sticking the astro orbiters at the entrance to Tomorrowland, building the Tarzan entrance smack in the middle of the walkway in Adventureland, extending the Pirates line over the already narrow bridge), and now it is becoming painful with the crowd levels. It is to the point where the crowds take much of the magic and fun out of the day, despite my usually optimistic attitude.

Despite the cost of the tickets, there is still a huge draw to the Disneyland Resort. They are trying to figure ways to bring the numbers down, but unfortunately, that just means it will be more expensive for us. I do agree with you regarding the Astro Orbitors, but not sure I agree about the Tarzan's Treehouse entrance. Disneyland Park is working on a solution now for high traffic on Main Street. So, they're aware. Planning takes a long time before it goes to the implementers, and then there is budget, and by that time, something else has come up, and it goes back to the planning department.

2) Lack of anything new - As we rode Indiana Jones, it really hit home how, on the Disneyland side, they haven't invested in new rides at the quality level of Indiana Jones since it was built decades ago. It made me nostalgic for the years were you could expect a great new ride (Splash, Indie, Star Tours) every few years. The classic rides are still great, but they need to add new things to get people out of the walkways and into lines.

I have to disagree with you here. Disneyland recently has added to and enhanced California Adventure. It has met with great success, and the detail to their work shows. Again, if the imagineers had unlimited budget (or even a decent budget) they would be all over Disneyland. Unfortunately, money originally slated gets redirected. Even with that, as a whole, the Disneyland Resort has made some really good enhancements to the parks. Indiana Jones was done in 1995. They have done lots to the resort on that scale and grander since then.

3) The general sense that the guest experience is less important to Disney. For example, the new thing where they take your picture when you re-enter the park. We waited for a good 20 minutes when re-entering at 3:00 in the afternoon, despite only about 10 people in front of us. The woman couldn't get here device to work, and it takes a lot of time to take everyones picture. I asked why they did that and she said to prevent fraud. Ok, so Disney can prevent a few people from reselling a multi-day ticket, thereby making a few more dollars, at the expense of me wasting 20 minutes of my day. If you want to prevent fraud, it shouldn't be at a cost to me, a highly-paying guest.

Things happen. I think we're seeing what happens when the infrastructure is deluged with daily high numbers. It's just unfortunate that you happened to be in the line where this happened. If it is happening in every line everyday, or several times a week, then I would probably agree with you.

4) The park being effectively shut-down during fireworks. This has a lot to do with crowds, but I think it warrants a separate point. I don't like that Fantasyland closes during fireworks (it hasn't always been like that). With Toontown closed, that means that for several hours you are really only going to be able to move around in Tomorrowland. Main Street is packed with everyone waiting for fireworks, and New Orleans Square is overflowing with Fantasmic viewers.

Toontown and part of Fantasyland are shut down, due to safety reasons. After the fireworks are over, they open up again. I was there a couple of weeks ago by Dumbo (which was running) during the fireworks. We went to the rope, and about 15-20 minutes after the fireworks, when all the safety checks were done, they opened the ropes, and everyone went to the dark rides immediately.

5) Rides breaking down. With fast passes in hand, we made several treks across Disneyland to ride Indiana Jones, only to be told it had broken down both times. Last October it broke down twice while we were waiting in line. Luckily, we didn't have issues with other rides closing, but from what I have read on these boards, it is becoming very common. I suspect it is that they are running these rides into the ground because of the high crowd levels for most of the year now.

I agree with you here. I don't know what the solution is. Should Disneyland go back to closing two days of the week so they can do maintenance on rides? Right now their window is from what - 1am-6am, or something like that? That isn't very long to check the rides for mechanical issues.

There were other things too, but this is long enough. Sorry for the negative post. It was just so sad to realize that Disneyland is losing its magic to me. Luckily, my girls still love it. So I may continue to go for them. But I hope that Disney starts to think more about the guest experience. I know they can do it - my Disney cruise last years was magical and perfect. On the other hand, maybe that will never happen because people seem to still go to the park in droves. Am I the only one who feels this way?

Thank you for the time to post your observations. I believe you were trying to be fair, and it's a bummer when the state of the park causes us to be disillusioned.

 

[Disneyland1084]

I went to Disneyland last summer and met up with a friend from San Diego who's an AP holder. She said she heard Disneyland is looking into tearing down the Innoventions building and building another attraction in it's place. Can any of you fabulous Disers confirm if this is in fact true?

 

[Chrisfilm]

Having not been since 2008, can someone explain the photo thing to me? Thanks.

Also, the crowd complaints make me nervous. Will be there during peak season. Long lines don't bother me. It's controlled movement of a large mass of people, but crowded walkways and what not makes me stressed just thinking about it. You never know who's going where or who might all of a sudden stop. People not being orderly or considerate when going from one place to another is such a pet peeve of mine. I'm just going to have to get over it though.

 

[Maddysdaddy]

While I don't take issue with the sincerity of your frustration, I wonder if any of it is rooted in the fact that you have been attending the parks for so many years, and perhaps your perceptions and tolerance levels have changed over time?

The analogy I would draw is to the amount of complaining that I have done over the past few winters about how long, cold and snowy they were - objectively, they weren't much different from when I was a kid/teenager/in my twenties & thirties - but realistically, I think that I'm just older and grumpier, and have less time and patience for things that I perceive as being "worse" than they were when I was younger.

 

[SMD]

Having not been since 2008, can someone explain the photo thing to me? Thanks.

Also, the crowd complaints make me nervous. Will be there during peak season. Long lines don't bother me. It's controlled movement of a large mass of people, but crowded walkways and what not makes me stressed just thinking about it. You never know who's going where or who might all of a sudden stop. People not being orderly or considerate when going from one place to another is such a pet peeve of mine. I'm just going to have to get over it though.

They now print guest names on multiday tickets. Just before you get to the turnstile there is a CM with a hand scanner who will take your picture. Then the CM with the scanner will scan your ticket and compare your picture each time you enter a park. It takes a few seconds and really doesn't hold thing up. If the scanner doesn't work, they may ask for ID.

If crowd control is a pet peeve of yours, I think you will have a miserable trip. Especially on Main St around parade times, in Tomorrowland, Adventureland, and before or after shows. You might want to think of a plan to avoid those areas or some other coping mechanism.

I highly doubt that it took 20 minutes to get 10 people through the turnstile. I got to the parks weekly at all times of the day and have never seen this. When you're park hopping it can seem frustrating when someone's ticket won't scan and seem like it's taking a long time, but that's just perception. When you park hop at certain times, like before or after parades or fireworks, yes, it takes longer, but there'a way more than 10 people ahead of you. Checking IDs would take longer than the scanners. They can't even convince people to have their tickets out sometimes, they'd digging around for IDs for longer. Having the scanners actually gets people to have their ticket out before the turnstile, which used to be an issue that caused delays before. Plus there's been several posts over the years about people who don't want to take their IDs to the park at all, for fear of losing them. You can't please everyone, but I think the scanners are the lesser of all evils. Even on the Monsterous 24 hour event, DCA reopened after grad night. The line was over halfway across the esplanade. There were only 3-4 gates open, and I was shocked that they managed to scan and get all of those people in in 5 minutes. I was anxious and mildly annoyed that people didn't have their tickets out, but then once I was in the park I looked down and realized only 3 minutes had passed. It was really impressive.

 

[wdwrich]

While I don't take issue with the sincerity of your frustration, I wonder if any of it is rooted in the fact that you have been attending the parks for so many years, and perhaps your perceptions and tolerance levels have changed over time?

The analogy I would draw is to the amount of complaining that I have done over the past few winters about how long, cold and snowy they were - objectively, they weren't much different from when I was a kid/teenager/in my twenties & thirties - but realistically, I think that I'm just older and grumpier, and have less time and patience for things that I perceive as being "worse" than they were when I was younger.

As one who has been attending DL since 1984 and DCA since it opened, I can attest that there is definitely now a significant increase in crowd levels. We've been going during all months of the year, both on weekends and week days. While there used to be certain days and times of the year where there were low crowd levels and short ride waits, those days are almost impossible to come by presently. In my case as I've become older, I tend to be more tolerant of things that used to drive me up the wall, so I don't believe it's a case of perception when it comes to DLR. Not trying to be snarky here, just my 2 cents.