Less Than Impressed

[luisov]

Most of those problems seem to be related to crowd levels and lack of space for expansion. Unfortunately both WDW and DL are over-crowded now. Hopefully the recent DCA improvements will distribute the crowds a little bit more evenly.

 

[bakerudall]

I was in the parks this week (1st-3rd) as well, and wow, what a different experience I had on the same days! I really do not understand these frustrations, but then again, I am a very laid-back person.

When I took a moment to look around and take in the volume of people in the parks, it looked pretty crowded. However, I was very pleased that I always had ample personal space, I was always able to find a clear path of travel, even holding hands with my wife. Planning ahead on the Disboards thumbsup2) helped me avoid all major crowds and traffic jams.

I knew FL would be closed for the fireworks, so we jumped on BTMRR for a magical fireworks experience. I knew when the parades were going to be, so I either watched them or planned to be in the opposite end of the parks. After F! we stood and talked about how awesome the show was for 5 minutes instead squeezing in with the herd as they departed NO Square. CA felt like a ghost town every morning as long as we weren't at CL or TSMM. Everything was walk-on, and we did a few character M&G's with only 2 or 3 people in line. We used FP's for any ride with an over 25 minute wait time (TSMM and Peter Pan took 35-40).

Also, I was surprised to see how high the adult/children ratio was in favor of adults. I saw far less strollers there than on my last visit a couple years ago.

The gates were cake. They took our pictures the first time we park-hopped, and we hopped at least twice per day from then on with no wait, having our tickets and ID's held out as we approached the nearest empty gate.

Crowded afternoon times were spent at indoor attractions and shows.

I guess DLR can be as miserable as you want to make it, and you can make it worse by entering long stand-by lines, walking through a parade route, etc., but why? I focused on my party only and had a blast.

 

[tarheelalum]

Most of the problems people are experiencing at DLR these days are due to crowd levels. The only way I know to reduce crowd levels is to greatly increase the price. Also ending the monthly pay plan for AP would reduce quite a bit as well. Its stinks because a lot of people could not afford to go if they doubled the price of AP and cut out the monthly pay plan but it would solve most of the problems guests are having.

Or if another recession hits.

 

[Gisele]

Most of the problems people are experiencing at DLR these days are due to crowd levels. The only way I know to reduce crowd levels is to greatly increase the price. Also ending the monthly pay plan for AP would reduce quite a bit as well. Its stinks because a lot of people could not afford to go if they doubled the price of AP and cut out the monthly pay plan but it would solve most of the problems guests are having.

Or if another recession hits.

It may decrease park attendance, therefore making many park visitors happier, but I believe that DLR would end up becoming an elitist property.
Disneyland has their snooty hootie club and over priced hotels. But then to add the parks themselves too, by greatly increasing the already rather high park admission and AP rates, that would really just be like kicking dirt in the face of the hard working woman and man.

 

[mrfrogandme]

I agree it has become more crowed over time, even during off season the crowds are a little thicker then say 10 years ago.... and i think adding CA in hopes to have that crowd split between the parks has only increased it

But i'm happy with that lack of change at disneyland, i miss some of the things they have gotten rid of to make way for new things, I think that is one of the hardest part of planning , what ever they remove will upset some life long visitors.

Honestly , i don't see CA and DL as two separate parks, from day one I've always looked at it as one big disneyland with a giant break station inbetween, so when i read people complain about the lack of change, i look at CA and all the changes i've seen at that park

 

[sassydisneymomma]

I've been twice in the last 8 months... going again in 3 months. The crowds were never terrible... it was a bit busy in the evenings, and we just avoided Parade and firework areas... that is when it was nice to walk on the rides that are still open! I think you have to go and just know that there will be crowds... if you have no patience... and think it's going to be quiet... then maybe Disney isn't the place for you to begin with.

I also never had any issues with getting in with our AP's... we were in some long lines... and I think we were always in within 4 minutes of getting there.

I'm guilty for hitting people with my stroller... never on purpose though!! To the people that are inconsiderate enough to stop dead in their tracks in front of me, that is what you get. I always apologize, even if it is there fault... and I've gotten some nasty looks and words said at my direction, but alas, I let them roll right on by... those people apparently need to be hit with the stroller. Two strollers were stolen during my trip last month... that is just wrong. You don't steal someone's stroller....

 

[tarheelalum]

I'm guilty for hitting people with my stroller... never on purpose though!! To the people that are inconsiderate enough to stop dead in their tracks in front of me, that is what you get. ..

……….*...

 

[MamaLou]

Maybe because of all the complaints about closing the parks early on grad nights and reduced evening entertainment and noise from grads until 6AM?

Funny, when I went for my Sr. Class trip in 1969 (a busload of us from Las Vegas)...evidently our class advisors or whomever planned the trip hadn't checked things out thoroughly. The Mormon Church (or group from the church) had rented the park for one evening of our weekend stay. So there we were, a bunch of high schoolers who had a great time during the day at Disneyland, but were left to our own devices for the evening. My memory's fuzzy, but I know there was some partying going on! Unfortunately it was in our motel rooms instead of Disneyland!

 

[Gisele]

Funny, when I went for my Sr. Class trip in 1969 (a busload of us from Las Vegas)...evidently our class advisors or whomever planned the trip hadn't checked things out thoroughly. The Mormon Church (or group from the church) had rented the park for one evening of our weekend stay. So there we were, a bunch of high schoolers who had a great time during the day at Disneyland, but were left to our own devices for the evening. My memory's fuzzy, but I know there was some partying going on! Unfortunately it was in our motel rooms instead of Disneyland!

You sound cool like your name, MamaLou!
And regarding motels...
lol

 

[brentm77]

After taking a few days to recover, my family went to DCA on Saturday (despite the well-reasoned advice to go Friday, I just wasn't up to the task yet). My experience at DCA was fabulous. DCA feels like a new park since I last visited.

Entering the park, the photo-taking processes was much quicker. It was so quick, that I realized that others were correct that my complaining earlier was unwarranted on that subject. If the system works as intended, it is a minor slow-down for the guest. So I concede that argument, with the caveat that when the system isn’t work, they need to put guests first and just let them enter as normal.

Because we arrived a few minutes after park opening, I decided to go ahead and get fast passes for RSR first. The line was long but moved quickly. It was a nice touch for Disney to staff the machines with super quick cast members (who also taught us the neat trick of inserting each ticket on top of the last instead of trying to remove each ticket and insert the next – I used that throughout the day). So, within 15 minutes, we were off to a great start, with my impression of Disney already improved. Our return time was between 12:00 and 1:00.

We headed for Toy Story, but the line was so short for Screaming, that I sent my girls to ride it (I was still feeling a bit unsettled from my sickness earlier in the week). After that, we got on Toy Story with only a 20 minute wait.

After a few more rides, we headed to Cars Land. I was completely blown away by the attention to detail. It is a fabulous addition to the Disney parks. It was like walking into the movie. After riding RSR’s, I was glad to see that Disney can still make quality rides. (Did anyone else get an odd feeling when they saw the main street of Radiator Springs on the ride? It is a miniature version of what the visitor just saw while walking to the ride. I don’t think there is any other ride like that).

Overall, the park was not too crowded. Especially considering it was a Saturday. It was a grad-night, but the teenagers were well behaved and didn’t add to the crowds too significantly.

The day was far and above more enjoyable than Disneyland. I never thought I would say that, as I was never a huge fan of DCA. I still don’t care at all for the state-fair-like section of the park. But now there is enough Disney magic with Little Mermaid, Cars Land, Tower of Terror, added Disney characters, etc, that I feel like I am actually on a Disney property, without the same crowd problems. The walkways are also much wider with fewer bottlenecks. It was clearly designed for modern crowds.

I still am disappointed in Disneyland itself; I’m not too eager to return soon. I expected high-crowds, and generally do fine with crowds. But I think it was reached the point where patience will only get you so far. When it becomes tiring just to get from point A to point B, and much more time consuming than it was in the past, it starts to affect your day, regardless of your attitude. Fast passes made things worse by throwing everyone out of lines and into the walkways and shops. The AP’s added to it, and the AP’s with monthly payment plans took it over the top. I get the idea of having a “positive attitude.” But Disneyland shouldn’t be something to be overcome with a good attitude; it should be something that is enjoyable in itself.

I agree with another poster that it is the uncontrolled nature of these crowds that is the problem. I happily stood in an hour line to ride RSR a second time. But, I understand that the crowd tolerance will be different for each person, and that many have a higher threshold for me.

But, DCA really redeemed the trip for me. RSR showed me that Disney is still capable of making great attractions. The day was great. Thank goodness we were able to end the trip on that high-note.

P.S., I disagree that Disney has a perplexing problem that they can't fix with respect to crowds. Simply double or triple AP prices until they find the sweet spot of the same revenue at half the number of purchasers. Disney keeps the same revenue while not driving away tourists like me. I know, no AP holder will support that idea, but it is simple economics. Those who value it the most, will still buy it. If they can’t afford it, they can still buy a ticket and visit once or twice a year, just as other do and just as everyone did before AP’s were started.

 

[figment_jii]

I'm glad to hear that you enjoyed DCA better.

P.S., I disagree that Disney has a perplexing problem that they can't fix with respect to crowds. Simply double or triple AP prices until they find the sweet spot of the same revenue at half the number of purchasers. Disney keeps the same revenue while not driving away tourists like me. I know, no AP holder will support that idea, but it is simple economics. Those who value it the most, will still buy it. If they can’t afford it, they can still buy a ticket and visit once or twice a year, just as other do and just as everyone did before AP’s were started.

I couldn't help but laugh at this idea. As an AP holder, I do disagree and I don't think the entire crowding problem is due just to AP holders being in the parks. If this was the case, then the summer should be pretty quiet because many of the APs are blocked (e.g., both SoCal passes are blocked for much of the summer and the Deluxe is blocked on Saturday). Obviously, this is not the case, so the argument could be made that the day guest prices should be doubled or tripled as well to hold their numbers down.

 

[Dbzguy]

I have to admit that Ive become more a fan of California Adventure than DL in the last few years as well. Crowds are less, park seems newer in most areas and the total atmosphere is more relaxed. Plus I like how you can buy beers there which makes it seem more for adults. My Wife and I mainly go on sunday or week nights which seems a bit more chill too. I can honestly say I almost like DTD better too lol. UVA bar being one of my favorite spots

 

[brentm77]

I'm glad to hear that you enjoyed DCA better.

I couldn't help but laugh at this idea. As an AP holder, I do disagree and I don't think the entire crowding problem is due just to AP holders being in the parks. If this was the case, then the summer should be pretty quiet because many of the APs are blocked (e.g., both SoCal passes are blocked for much of the summer and the Deluxe is blocked on Saturday). Obviously, this is not the case, so the argument could be made that the day guest prices should be doubled or tripled as well to hold their numbers down.

Laughing at economics won't change the science. When you want to purposely decrease consumption, you raise prices. Yes, you could do that with day guests, but my understanding is that Disney finds that they spend more while in the parks.

An alternative would be caps and a lottery for APs, but that isn't a smart businesses choice as it would decrease AP revenue.

The summers have been crowded as long as I remember. But the AP s have all but eliminated the off season, which was the time of year many families found bearable. Summer was for people who didn't mind the crowds, didn't know better, or couldn't go during the school year.

Sure, it takes both groups to make the big crowds in the off season. But to reduce crowds, it makes more sense to do it with the APs, where revenue could be kept steady without making the park a playground for the rich only.

Frankly, I could afford triple the price for a day ticket. But I would hate to see young, large, or middle class families miss out on the opportunity so that others can go 50 times a year.

The other option is to keep the status quo and drive away long term day users like me. If Disney values AP holders more, that is its choice to make. I dont fault it for that if it makes the most business sense.

I wouldn't want it to raise AP prices either if I were you, but I dont see why it isn't a great way to increase the average customer experience without hurting revenue.

 

[HydroGuy]

Laughing at economics won't change the science. When you want to purposely decrease consumption, you raise prices. Yes, you could do that with day guests, but my understanding is that Disney finds that they spend more while in the parks.

Disney has already done this with AP holders. They bumped up the prices by like 25%. But the parks are more crowded than ever. I do believe you are right that AP holders spend less - at least those who are day trippers. But they also keep the parks going in the off season.

Of course you are correct about the supply and demand. Disney has other things at play though. They are not only a theme park company. They have hotels, and synergies with movies, TV, merchandise, among other things. They are trying to manage the theme parks in a way that connects all those things. It is the aggregate they are looking at.

Further, many of today's big Disney fans are people like me who started going when I was three years old. Now my kids are young adults. They will eventually have their own kids and want to take them as well. Pricing out families today may keep away a larger percentage of kids which will hurt tomorrow's attendance. I think it is in Disney's long term interest to keep the parks more full and not less full.

And finally, DLR is not a fixed size piece of pie. They can make it bigger. As they have done at DCA in recent years. They can add more rides and shows and allow the park to take in more guests without making it feel more crowded. So rather than decreasing crowds by increasing prices, they can invest to increase capacity.

The summers have been crowded as long as I remember. But the AP s have all but eliminated the off season, which was the time of year many families found bearable. Summer was for people who didn't mind the crowds, didn't know better, or couldn't go during the school year.

Or liked the weather, liked having longer park hours and more daylight, liked having less refurbs, or liked having shows scheduled every day.

And if it is true that AP holders have eliminated the off-season, you speak as if that is a bad thing. I think it is a good thing. More guests year round gives larger income so DLR invest more in the parks.

Frankly, I could afford triple the price for a day ticket. But I would hate to see young, large, or middle class families miss out on the opportunity so that others can go 50 times a year.

The other option is to keep the status quo and drive away long term day users like me. If Disney values AP holders more, that is its choice to make. I dont fault it for that if it makes the most business sense.

I wouldn't want it to raise AP prices either if I were you, but I dont see why it isn't a great way to increase the average customer experience without hurting revenue.

DLR attendance has gone way up. They are doing something right. If they are driving some away they seem to be replacing them with two others for each person they drive away.

I am not saying DLR is perfect. But I am not sure that having it be crowded year round is a bad thing. Frankly, I rarely find it super crowded myself. But then I know all the ins and outs of touring DLR.

 

[jory29]

As a long time Disneyland park-goer with your family, you obviously have noted all of the changes, OP, some good, and of course, some negative.

I totally agree with your points, you raise valid concerns, and speak these concerns as a true Disney fan, who has been with them through the years.

The first time we took our kids, our son was 10, our daughter 5. Our son is now 17.5, our daughter 12. The changes we have seen have been immense!

We have tried to visit during various 'low-seasons' (vowing never to go again in October), to dealing with huge price hikes in tickets, dealing with 'no more than 5 day passes', to a variety of ride changes that didn't make sense - (Goofy's sky school for example, or, pulling maliboomer to create a great green grass park (they advertised it as) only to find out it is a really poorly ventilated smoking area now.) Even though it is outdoors, I believe they could have fans that could blow the smoke away from the people.

Anyway - with all of this being said - we are still madly drawn to all of this fuss of the parks - I don't know what it would take to get us away from it. But boy, do we long for the year in Nov. when we closed out toon town with just our family in all shots - every single person had gone home. It was amazing, walk on rides for everyone.

Even though I made a huge stink about them taking away a more than 5 day hopper from people, (there truly is no logic to it) - we still, as a family, do enjoy going. The sad part is, we don't stay in the parks as long as we want, as we finally feel defeated from the crowds.

So glad you enjoyed the new California Advernture Park! We love Cars Land, not as crazy about the rest of the changes, but, to each their own.

I know what you mean about the rides!! I was with my husband back when splash mountain was new -same as with the Indiana Jones ride - very exciting time. When do they plan on re-newing the ride for Soarin' Over California? Could they ever manage that one in high def? Or screens without the black splotches that are reminiscent of old 70's films we watched on old filmstrip machines?

Overall, very little that we can do, other than grin at the fun we do have in the parks.

 

[figment_jii]

Laughing at economics won't change the science.

I wasn't laughing at the science or the economics, I was laughing at the idea that Disney would suddenly double or triple the AP prices. While that might seem like a reasonable idea to you, I highly doubt that would ever happen. Smaller, but still large, increases can and will happen, but that large of an increase would be highly unlikely. The bad publicity alone would make it unlikely.

I wouldn't want it to raise AP prices either if I were you, but I dont see why it isn't a great way to increase the average customer experience without hurting revenue.

I completely disagree with this statement. Raising prices would hurt the average customer/guest experience because AP holders are guests too and how much they enjoy the parks should also matter.

I suppose you said it best originally, we will just have to agree to disagree because while I get that you do not like the number of AP holders in the parks, I think that it's unfair to blame AP holders for all the crowds in the parks. I've gone in February and March, as well as October, November, and December and found the crowds to be manageable. Yes, not all rides were walk-on and Sat/Sun are pretty busy, but weekdays were not bad.

 

[dsny1mom]

Laughing at economics won't change the science. When you want to purposely decrease consumption, you raise prices. Yes, you could do that with day guests, but my understanding is that Disney finds that they spend more while in the parks.

An alternative would be caps and a lottery for APs, but that isn't a smart businesses choice as it would decrease AP revenue.

The summers have been crowded as long as I remember. But the AP s have all but eliminated the off season, which was the time of year many families found bearable. Summer was for people who didn't mind the crowds, didn't know better, or couldn't go during the school year.

Sure, it takes both groups to make the big crowds in the off season. But to reduce crowds, it makes more sense to do it with the APs, where revenue could be kept steady without making the park a playground for the rich only.

Frankly, I could afford triple the price for a day ticket. But I would hate to see young, large, or middle class families miss out on the opportunity so that others can go 50 times a year.

The other option is to keep the status quo and drive away long term day users like me. If Disney values AP holders more, that is its choice to make. I dont fault it for that if it makes the most business sense.

I wouldn't want it to raise AP prices either if I were you, but I dont see why it isn't a great way to increase the average customer experience without hurting revenue.

Disney WANTS the parks full year round. Why in the world would they want low crowds? The more people the more revenue. If one group, family, person, whatever doesn't like the fuller parks there are plenty others ready to take their place.

Disney offers the low price APs for a reason. They need that demographic to fill the parks during off season and eliminating the lower rung AP or raising them sky high will loose that demographic. Locals will not fork over the same price to visit for a day or two when that got them entrance 180+ days per year in the past. Then you have AP holders that only use their passes several times a year, and that is a cash cow for Disney in itself!

If Disney didn't want to grow their business DCA would still be a parking lot. Halloween parties were not started and enhanced for any reason other than to fill the parks in previous slow months of Sept and Oct. They aren't considering a third park to disperse the crowds, they want to attract BIGGER crowds.

Guests that prefer lower crowds still have a couple of options. The second half of January and most of Feb especially on rainy days have low crowds. Guests looking for an single day are best off going on Saturdays during the busier times when all but PAP are blocked. Early mornings on non EMH days at DL can be slower too. But slower weeks during nice weather periods are gone and probably for good.

dsny1mom

 

[jory29]

Disney WANTS the parks full year round. Why in the world would they want low crowds? The more people the more revenue. If one group, family, person, whatever doesn't like the fuller parks there are plenty others ready to take their place.

Disney offers the low price APs for a reason. They need that demographic to fill the parks during off season and eliminating the lower rung AP or raising them sky high will loose that demographic. Locals will not fork over the same price to visit for a day or two when that got them entrance 180+ days per year in the past. Then you have AP holders that only use their passes several times a year, and that is a cash cow for Disney in itself!

If Disney didn't want to grow their business DCA would still be a parking lot. Halloween parties were not started and enhanced for any reason other than to fill the parks in previous slow months of Sept and Oct. They aren't considering a third park to disperse the crowds, they want to attract BIGGER crowds.

Guests that prefer lower crowds still have a couple of options. The second half of January and most of Feb especially on rainy days have low crowds. Guests looking for an single day are best off going on Saturdays during the busier times when all but PAP are blocked. Early mornings on non EMH days at DL can be slower too. But slower weeks during nice weather periods are gone and probably for good.

dsny1mom

Jan. and Feb. isn't as feasible of an option for us, who have a few connecting flights to make, in Northern Canada - ice, fog, etc., snow storms, can all wreak havoc on a flight, so generally we try to aim for better weather months, overall. This is not true for everyone, but something that we do experience...

 

[sweethannah]

I have to admit that Ive become more a fan of California Adventure than DL in the last few years as well. Crowds are less, park seems newer in most areas and the total atmosphere is more relaxed. Plus I like how you can buy beers there which makes it seem more for adults. My Wife and I mainly go on sunday or week nights which seems a bit more chill too. I can honestly say I almost like DTD better too lol. UVA bar being one of my favorite spots

On very hot days in May I was able to visit the little italian beer 'garden' for lack of a better word where a very helpful CM helped me try some new beers. Love that.

 

[TwinPrincessMermaids]

Jory, when in Nov did you go? We are looking at either before or right after T-giving time. May crowds at WDW did us in majorly this year and the new FP was not great for us and it was already 95 degrees or storming for days at a time. We have never tried DLR but are thinking the weather and crowds would be good around that time, but don't want to miss stuff being taken down for refurb etc. We would do weekday to weekday so we could get some weekdays in and then some of the weekend in case we needed a busier day for shows/fireworks? That's the plan so far anyway....