Leave Carrie Alone!!

[The Orchid]

My understanding is that these contests judge a person's inner beauty as well as their physical beauty and talent. Bigotry is not pretty. She lost points. She lost the contest.

For those who feel that it is wrong to judge her, I see no reason why it's ok for her to have an opinion but it's not ok for people to have thoughts on her opinions. She has the freedom to her opinion, we have the freedom to ours. If you put yourself in the public eye, you open yourself to scrutiny.

How many people here have expressed annoyance that some people will post personal information and then get upset when other DISers express opinions that run counter to their beliefs? If you put yourself out there you open yourself up for opinions, whether it is on the DIS, in politics, or at a beauty contest. How boring would the world be if nobody ever discussed or debated the things around them? There would be no fresh ideas, no progress. It's good people discuss this sort of thing.

Now, if the question had been, "Do you approve of Jews/blacks/senior citizens/infertile people getting married" and she said, "God no! I think they should not be allowed to get married, I'm sorry but that is how I was raised," I'm guessing there would be some negative comments made about her and nobody would want to support her. In fact, I bet there would be outrage that she wasn't flat out disqualified!

It is not bigotry, by the way, to refuse to tolerate opinions that are meant to oppress a minority. The reason other minorities have made so much progress is because we refuse to find such attitudes acceptable. It starts small and grows. Thirty years ago, when I was a child, it was ok in a LOT of circles to make racial slurs. Thank God that nonsense isn't as common today, though it still exists. The reason there is less racial intolerance is because more and more people refuse to tolerate ignorant, bigoted comments. People often hate and they don't even know why they do. Many people are followers, and truly, when these followers hear that others are less tolerant towards bigotry, then they become less tolerant as well. Why? Because so many people formulate their opinions based on the majority, even if it makes no sense. So I'm glad when people speak out loud against bigotry!

I don't want my daughter to grow up in a world where people tell her she can't get married because she happens to be in love with another woman. So I cheer every single person who makes their voice heard because they are the brave ones who will put an end to this. I am glad people find Miss California to be offensive. She WAS! Bigotry is ugly, homely, hideous, unattractive and icky. Nobody wants a beauty queen who is icky. She lost. Too bad, so sad. And honestly, whose to say she wouldn't have lost anyway? It's rather arrogant for her to assume she would have otherwise won.

The only thing I would say in her defense, and I do mean this, is that the question really did set her up for failure, and my understanding is that nobody else was given such a question. But even so, I hardly think that justifies a lawsuit. Life isn't always fair.

 

[rie'smom]

My understanding is that these contests judge a person's inner beauty as well as their physical beauty and talent. Bigotry is not pretty.

Not in this contest- Donald Trump owns the company and the pageant is sleezy. They don't care about inner beauty.

 

[kydisneyfans]

While I completely agree with her stance, at some point you just have to drop things and move forward. The answer she gave that evening took some guts in front of the PC crowd. Why she is milking this on baffles me though.

 

[SereneOne]

Always nice to be accused a bigot when voicing a Christian opinion.

Don't you know it is okay to deny Christians their rights and to be prejudice towards them?

I am for the right for gays and lesbians to marry, separation of state and church in my opinion, but for people to tell other people they have no rights and call them names because they disagree seems hypocritical.

 

[SereneOne]

Interesting....so it's a "do as I say" type of situation.

Human nature is an amazing thing!

 

[SereneOne]

My understanding is that these contests judge a person's inner beauty as well as their physical beauty and talent. Bigotry is not pretty. She lost points. She lost the contest.

For those who feel that it is wrong to judge her, I see no reason why it's ok for her to have an opinion but it's not ok for people to have thoughts on her opinions. She has the freedom to her opinion, we have the freedom to ours. If you put yourself in the public eye, you open yourself to scrutiny.

How many people here have expressed annoyance that some people will post personal information and then get upset when other DISers express opinions that run counter to their beliefs? If you put yourself out there you open yourself up for opinions, whether it is on the DIS, in politics, or at a beauty contest. How boring would the world be if nobody ever discussed or debated the things around them? There would be no fresh ideas, no progress. It's good people discuss this sort of thing.

Now, if the question had been, "Do you approve of Jews/blacks/senior citizens/infertile people getting married" and she said, "God no! I think they should not be allowed to get married, I'm sorry but that is how I was raised," I'm guessing there would be some negative comments made about her and nobody would want to support her. In fact, I bet there would be outrage that she wasn't flat out disqualified!

It is not bigotry, by the way, to refuse to tolerate opinions that are meant to oppress a minority. The reason other minorities have made so much progress is because we refuse to find such attitudes acceptable. It starts small and grows. Thirty years ago, when I was a child, it was ok in a LOT of circles to make racial slurs. Thank God that nonsense isn't as common today, though it still exists. The reason there is less racial intolerance is because more and more people refuse to tolerate ignorant, bigoted comments. People often hate and they don't even know why they do. Many people are followers, and truly, when these followers hear that others are less tolerant towards bigotry, then they become less tolerant as well. Why? Because so many people formulate their opinions based on the majority, even if it makes no sense. So I'm glad when people speak out loud against bigotry!

I don't want my daughter to grow up in a world where people tell her she can't get married because she happens to be in love with another woman. So I cheer every single person who makes their voice heard because they are the brave ones who will put an end to this. I am glad people find Miss California to be offensive. She WAS! Bigotry is ugly, homely, hideous, unattractive and icky. Nobody wants a beauty queen who is icky. She lost. Too bad, so sad. And honestly, whose to say she wouldn't have lost anyway? It's rather arrogant for her to assume she would have otherwise won.

The only thing I would say in her defense, and I do mean this, is that the question really did set her up for failure, and my understanding is that nobody else was given such a question. But even so, I hardly think that justifies a lawsuit. Life isn't always fair.

It is bigotry no matter whether you are a majority or minority to say that someone is to be vilified because of an opinion, to have everything on them dug up and be used to say they have no freedom of speech. I don't think the question should have been asked, however the young woman stated that it was not right for her and her family and let us remember, in most parts of this country, it is ILLEGAL to marry someone of the same sex. For one to state she is wrong and to disagree, fine and dandy, but to say they have no right to an opinion and then to go about destroying them is sick. Women are in a majority, but they are oppressed. And what was done to Carrie was ugly and icky, not her having an opinion.

 

[The Orchid]

It is bigotry no matter whether you are a majority or minority to say that someone is to be vilified because of an opinion, to have everything on them dug up and be used to say they have no freedom of speech. I don't think the question should have been asked, however the young woman stated that it was not right for her and her family and let us remember, in most parts of this country, it is ILLEGAL to marry someone of the same sex. For one to state she is wrong and to disagree, fine and dandy, but to say they have no right to an opinion and then to go about destroying them is sick. Women are in a majority, but they are oppressed. And what was done to Carrie was ugly and icky, not her having an opinion.

Well, perhaps you are right. It's true that homosexuals and Christians have been at odds for a long time, and no doubt bigotry goes both ways. As a lesbian who has faced many, many judgmental Christians in her time, I can tell you that I do struggle with it! I have many Christian friends who are not bigots, but I have had many run ins with those who are.

However, and I mean no offense, many people on this thread who claim we are bigots too are forgetting one really, really, really big difference. I do not have the power, and if I did I would not want it, to control what you do. I want you to be able to pray, to worship your God and to believe what you want to believe about me. I don't care if you think I'm gross, if you judge me, if you talk about me bad, if you disapprove of me and even if you ask your God to send me to hell....I truly do not care.

BUT, you have the power to VOTE AWAY my rights...legally. I can't do that to you because you are the majority, but you can do that to me. You may claim its ok because the law gives you the right, but it is absolutely not right, and deep down every man and woman here knows it, because everybody here has enough insight to imagine how you would feel if it were reversed and we could vote away your rights just because we didn't agree wtih you. Just because you can, does not mean you should. So you better believe that we feel a LOT of anger about this. Wouldn't you? If society had evolved differently and it was religious people who had to fight for their rights from us, would you speak kindly about those of us that you KNEW were going to the polling booths and voting away your rights?

This isn't just about opinions. Many of you have declared war against us. Miss California's opinion is not just an opinion, it is a LEGAL VOTE against the rights that we should have. So yeah, bigotry is a very ugly thing when it has the power to control other people.

If Miss California had said what she said, but had no power to cast a vote against me, her comment would not have even registered. And I would hazard a guess that the majority of gay and lesbian people feel the same way. We don't care what your opinion of us is. We have our friends, we are certainly not unloved. We don't need you, your friendship or your approval. We just need you to stay out of our business and especially out our bedrooms. It's the fact that you just won't let us live our lives in peace that has created this whole mess. And SereneOne, I mean "you" in the generic sense, it's not aimed at any one poster and certainly not at you. I'm responding to opinions that have been expressed throughout this thread because I truly believe that when some of you cry foul, you are not looking at the whole picture of what your "opinions" can do to my life!

 

[TCPluto]

Agreed. It's not her opinion so much as how she stated it. She basically said that gay people have no moral values.

Exactly

You can't possibly be serious.

Nothing is further from the truth. She was very respectful and appropriate in her response, given her beliefs.

 

[TCPluto]

Don't you know it is okay to deny Christians their rights and to be prejudice towards them?

I am for the right for gays and lesbians to marry, separation of state and church in my opinion, but for people to tell other people they have no rights and call them names because they disagree seems hypocritical.

Welcome to the new world order.

If you disagree with someones position, loudly throw out the bigot label and watch the PC'ers and crunchies come running. This thread is a testament to that.

 

[TCPluto]

Nope, she said:

"Well I think it's great that Americans are able to choose one or the other. We live in a land that you can choose same-sex marriage or opposite marriage. And you know what, I think in my country, in my family, I think that I believe that a marriage should be between a man and a woman. No offence to anybody out there, but that's how I was raised and that's how I think it should be between a man and a woman."

That doesn't make any sense.

But, I guess, by your logic, I'm OK with being intolerant of the intolerant!

Would you please point out the intolerance in Carrie Prejean's statement?

Someone's entltled to the bigot label here, but it's not Carrie Prejean....

 

[The Orchid]

Would you please point out the intolerance in Carrie Prejean's statement?

Someone's entltled to the bigot label here, but it's not Carrie Prejean....

Carrie will take her "opinion" and go to the polls and vote against gay rights. Gay and lesbian people do not have the power, nor do we want it, to vote against your rights. That is how things differ here. It's more than an opinion when it has the power to control other people's lives.

Hypothetically, if anti Christians were in the majority and could outlaw your rights, I suspect that you would take "opinions" of those of us who are voting away your rights very seriously.

 

[TCPluto]

Carrie will take her "opinion" and go to the polls and vote against gay rights. Gay and lesbian people do not have the power, nor do we want it, to vote against your rights. That is how things differ here. It's more than an opinion when it has the power to control other people's lives.

Hypothetically, if anti Christians were in the majority and could outlaw your rights, I suspect that you would take "opinions" of those of us who are voting away your rights very seriously.

Go get your civil union and live happlily ever after. More power to you. Very few people really care one way or the other. And from her statement, that includes Carrie Prejean.


Is every person in the country who's against homosexual marriage a bigot???? Apparently you think so.

Just because someone doesn't vote your way or believe as you do does not make them a bigot. In fact, your thought process makes you a bigot against those with differing opinions.

 

[jamimb]

My understanding is that these contests judge a person's inner beauty as well as their physical beauty and talent. Bigotry is not pretty. She lost points. She lost the contest.

For those who feel that it is wrong to judge her, I see no reason why it's ok for her to have an opinion but it's not ok for people to have thoughts on her opinions. She has the freedom to her opinion, we have the freedom to ours. If you put yourself in the public eye, you open yourself to scrutiny.

How many people here have expressed annoyance that some people will post personal information and then get upset when other DISers express opinions that run counter to their beliefs? If you put yourself out there you open yourself up for opinions, whether it is on the DIS, in politics, or at a beauty contest. How boring would the world be if nobody ever discussed or debated the things around them? There would be no fresh ideas, no progress. It's good people discuss this sort of thing.

Now, if the question had been, "Do you approve of Jews/blacks/senior citizens/infertile people getting married" and she said, "God no! I think they should not be allowed to get married, I'm sorry but that is how I was raised," I'm guessing there would be some negative comments made about her and nobody would want to support her. In fact, I bet there would be outrage that she wasn't flat out disqualified!

It is not bigotry, by the way, to refuse to tolerate opinions that are meant to oppress a minority. The reason other minorities have made so much progress is because we refuse to find such attitudes acceptable. It starts small and grows. Thirty years ago, when I was a child, it was ok in a LOT of circles to make racial slurs. Thank God that nonsense isn't as common today, though it still exists. The reason there is less racial intolerance is because more and more people refuse to tolerate ignorant, bigoted comments. People often hate and they don't even know why they do. Many people are followers, and truly, when these followers hear that others are less tolerant towards bigotry, then they become less tolerant as well. Why? Because so many people formulate their opinions based on the majority, even if it makes no sense. So I'm glad when people speak out loud against bigotry!

I don't want my daughter to grow up in a world where people tell her she can't get married because she happens to be in love with another woman. So I cheer every single person who makes their voice heard because they are the brave ones who will put an end to this. I am glad people find Miss California to be offensive. She WAS! Bigotry is ugly, homely, hideous, unattractive and icky. Nobody wants a beauty queen who is icky. She lost. Too bad, so sad. And honestly, whose to say she wouldn't have lost anyway? It's rather arrogant for her to assume she would have otherwise won.

The only thing I would say in her defense, and I do mean this, is that the question really did set her up for failure, and my understanding is that nobody else was given such a question. But even so, I hardly think that justifies a lawsuit. Life isn't always fair.

You might want to watch your wording my friend. You just called everyone on here who shares her opinion ugly, homely, hideous, unattractive and icky. That's pretty "icky" as well.

 

[The Orchid]

Go get your civil union and live happlily ever after. More power to you. Very few people really care one way or the other. And from her statement, that includes Carrie Prejean.

Just because someone doesn't vote your way or believe as you do does not make them a bigot. In fact, your thought process makes you a bigot against those with differing opinions.

We're not going to see eye to eye. Again, your "opinion" affects my life when you go to the polling booth. Look what happened in Carrie's state! Look at the tremendous power your opinions can have over good and decent people!

Would you find me to be a bigot if I voted against your right to pray in public? And if millions of people banned together and removed that right completely, would you find us to be bigots because we "didn't vote your way?" Or would you be infuriated that a bunch of bigots separated you from your right as an American citizen to practice your religion?

Once again, opinions/actions that remove or prevent people's civil rights are not the same thing as just having a difference of opinion. Your opinions/actions can change or control my life, and that is wrong.

I've said all I'm saying on this thread. It's been fun, but I have said everything I need to say and arguing further will not change your mind, and your opinions won't change mine. I do respect your right to have opinions, but I don't respect anybody's ability to mess with my rights. That's really the point I am trying to make, and if I haven't made it yet, I'm not likely to!

 

[The Orchid]

You might want to watch your wording my friend. You just called everyone on here who shares her opinion ugly, homely, hideous, unattractive and icky. That's pretty "icky" as well.

Anybody who is willing to vote against another person's civil rights is icky, yes. People should have power to vote on school taxes, to elect officials, and to decide if that new jail will be built. They should never have the right to vote on civil rights. And frankly, I find it alarming that anybody would want to hold that kind of power in their hands. People have had that power and have made terrible mistakes with it. Until the late 1960s, interracial marriage was illegal! It's horrible to think that people had the right to make such profound decisions on people's lives.

It goes without saying that Carrie's "opinion" would lead to her voting against my rights in the polls, and she should not be able to do that just because "that is how she was raised."

Now, I am done. Thanks for the discussion. Have a good night/morning depending on where you're at!

 

[SereneOne]

Well, perhaps you are right. It's true that homosexuals and Christians have been at odds for a long time, and no doubt bigotry goes both ways. As a lesbian who has faced many, many judgmental Christians in her time, I can tell you that I do struggle with it! I have many Christian friends who are not bigots, but I have had many run ins with those who are.

However, and I mean no offense, many people on this thread who claim we are bigots too are forgetting one really, really, really big difference. I do not have the power, and if I did I would not want it, to control what you do. I want you to be able to pray, to worship your God and to believe what you want to believe about me. I don't care if you think I'm gross, if you judge me, if you talk about me bad, if you disapprove of me and even if you ask your God to send me to hell....I truly do not care.

BUT, you have the power to VOTE AWAY my rights...legally. I can't do that to you because you are the majority, but you can do that to me. You may claim its ok because the law gives you the right, but it is absolutely not right, and deep down every man and woman here knows it, because everybody here has enough insight to imagine how you would feel if it were reversed and we could vote away your rights just because we didn't agree wtih you. Just because you can, does not mean you should. So you better believe that we feel a LOT of anger about this. Wouldn't you? If society had evolved differently and it was religious people who had to fight for their rights from us, would you speak kindly about those of us that you KNEW were going to the polling booths and voting away your rights?

This isn't just about opinions. Many of you have declared war against us. Miss California's opinion is not just an opinion, it is a LEGAL VOTE against the rights that we should have. So yeah, bigotry is a very ugly thing when it has the power to control other people.

If Miss California had said what she said, but had no power to cast a vote against me, her comment would not have even registered. And I would hazard a guess that the majority of gay and lesbian people feel the same way. We don't care what your opinion of us is. We have our friends, we are certainly not unloved. We don't need you, your friendship or your approval. We just need you to stay out of our business and especially out our bedrooms. It's the fact that you just won't let us live our lives in peace that has created this whole mess. And SereneOne, I mean "you" in the generic sense, it's not aimed at any one poster and certainly not at you. I'm responding to opinions that have been expressed throughout this thread because I truly believe that when some of you cry foul, you are not looking at the whole picture of what your "opinions" can do to my life!

You have made an excellent point.

While she has a right to an opinion, she does not have a right to dictate what "you" do or do not do. I feel it is absolutely ludicrous that people have this for vote. We do not have it up to vote whether people can live together out of wedlock and that is considered a sin. I have a half-brother that is gay that I love very much and I can tell you, my vote would be yes, because it is an issue of state and not church. I can totally understand people's feelings towards Christians. Many are ugly and hateful and I can tell you more Christians have made me feel unloved and hurt to the point of tears than anyone of another faith or nonfaith. My problem with the whole "Carrie" thing is that because people disagreed with her opinion, some set out to destroy her so to speak. That is what I found so wrong. I admire MLK, JR. greatly and as ugly and as repulsive as the acts that where committed on black people and those that stood up for their rights, he spoke of nonviolence when combatting the enemy, and while "we" have overcome in many ways and even have a black president (I am waiting for the day that whether or president is female or male, of various color or what have you won't even make the news, myself), we still have a long way to go. I believe in time, lesbians and gays will have the same rights when it comes to marriage. It is slowly happening state by state.

I just thought of Cher and people asked her about her opinion on the institution of marriage and she replied who would want to be in an institution.

 

[BeachGirlFLA]

I think it's interesting how many people are calling her a bigot for expressing an opinion that the majority of the country holds. There must be a huge number of bigots in this country. I personally have had many gay friends and support their right to live their lives (in and out of the bedroom) as they see fit. That being said, I don't support gay "marriage" but I do support civil unions.

 

[Kath2003]

I think it's interesting how many people are calling her a bigot for expressing an opinion that the majority of the country holds. There must be a huge number of bigots in this country.

There was a time where interracial marriage was opposed by the majority.
There was a time when racial segregation was supported by the majority.
There was a time when slavery was supported by the majority.

It doesn't make it right to suppress the rights of a minority based on the opinions or beliefs of the majority.

 

[sbell111]

... If Miss California had said what she said, but had no power to cast a vote against me, her comment would not have even registered. ...

Please explain how this girl, a resident of California, has the power to take away your rights in Washington.

 

[FireDancer]

I think the real issue with the whole gay marriage debate is that neither side is willing to really sit down and work something out. I personally believe any consenting adult should be able to marry any other consenting adult regardless of whether they sit or stand to pee. I don't consider my point of view superior to those that oppose though, it is just different.

I think if a marriage equivalent was made that gave same sex couples the same legal protections and benefits as marriage there would be a lot less resistance from the religious establishment. In the end isn't the important thing the rights instead of the word? I completely understand that symbolism involved with being "married" but maybe sacraficing the ideal for the rights is the way to go. In the end I feel it is a state issue. There will be states that allow same sex marriage, there will be states that allow an equivelant not called marriage, and there will be states that allow only opposite sex marriages by any name. While I don't personally agree with it I do think the states have the right to do what they want based on their constituents. This way people can live in the state that matches their ideology and we can all get along.

I'm hoping that this isn't shut down merely because we are talking about something political. My understanding of the new rules is that it is supposed to keep people from ridiculing or demeaning someone for their political beliefs. I don't look at either side as being right or wrong, just different and it we all agree to meet a little closer to the middle most of our differences would be worked out.