lawyer vent, vent, vent!

[AlaskaMOM]

So sorry long post
my longest post ever!


I've posted before about losing my son last summer in an auto accident. And his girlfriend had their daughter a couple months later. We finally are gettng around to settling the estate....I think

The settlement from the insurance co and AJ's other assets (small amount) minus the expenses leaves between $40 and $50 thousand. It goes to his daughter in a trust.

Last June lawyer calls asks us how we want to deal with the money. We research a little and ask him a few questions, and tell him that we want to be on the trust account not GF (problems there with her stability and responsibility: drugs, moves around alot,has new 16 y/o BF, and just turned 18), but would do jointly if we have to, but try just us first.

We (DH and I) mention a bank or two that we are looking at.

Get frantic call from lawyer's aide end of Aug or beg Sept asking a couple of questions regarding baby's legal name and b-date, and the value of some savings bond. She says they are filing the petition with the court for setting up minors trust or whatever it's called , and finally settling the estate.

Beginning of Oct rolls around and I get an email stating when a court date is set, 10 days away. What we still have not received a copy of the petition!!

Go to court and basically lawyer reads from the motion. He reads the assets and expenses. The first Huh? was when he read that his fee was $7500! What we never signed anything about the fees for settling the estate (just the court case about the fatal car accident), but he's reading it out loud in court, I don't know if there's recourse on this point. Then he goes on and mentions which bank we want the fund deposited into, totally not one we would have ever chose!! Then he states that it would be joint custodians - me and GF! What, Huh?

After the motion hearing I tell him that in no way we want to use the bank he selected (he told us it was what we told him - nuh uh) and other lawyer (GF's) said no problem to switch as long as fdic insured.

OK over weekend I look up the rates for the 4 local banks and choose the one with the highest CD rates. Not much right now in the way of interest, but the only thing allowed; safe.

So I email lawyer Monday morning quick note stating which bank I want to use.

I get an email this afternoon from lawyer with a reply from GF's lawyer that they want another bank. I replied with the facts from the 2 websites rates pages. Double the interest at my choice compared to theirs.

My lawyer (I use the term my very loosely, because I think he's lawyering himself) with a copy of what he emailed to the other attny. It states that I want to use the other bank because of the better rates. And he asks lawyer if $5000 is acceptable as the amount for the accessible account. What? Huh?

He did not ask me about that at all!!!!

I have already figured an approximate amount that could be deducted yearly; to sustain the account through baby's childhood.

I never told him any other figuring, just which bank so he could file an ammendment to the court, because after court GF and I were told we were supposed to work it out. Now lawyers are doing the working out! Where did he pull $5000 figure from? his *** ?

I am so very frustrated with this lawyer making decisions and making them known to others before asking me or even letting me know beforehand!

I am thinking about another attorney, but I don't think the amount it would cost would be worth it.

 

[Cheshire Figment]

I would suggest you contact the Ethics Committee of the Bar Association ASAP.

 

[chloelovesdisney]

Well, I'm not sure about the $7500 fee although that doesn't sound that outrageous. Was there no discussion of costs when he started working on this?

It sounds like the mom wants to be much more involved with the trust than you prefer and her attorney is also making many requests to your attorney. Although it's understandable that you would like the money to last through the baby's childhood, $50,000 does not really go that far over 18 years. $5,000 a year does not seem unreasonable and the mom and baby are more likely to need the money much more now when the mom is so young, single and not earning much. Hopefully by the time the baby is older the mom will be more settled including financially and the trust will not be as vital to their well being.

Good luck with everything, no matter what the outcome it's a very difficult situation.

 

[cm8]

So sorry long post
my longest post ever!


I've posted before about losing my son last summer in an auto accident. And his girlfriend had their daughter a couple months later. We finally are gettng around to settling the estate....I think

The settlement from the insurance co and AJ's other assets (small amount) minus the expenses leaves between $40 and $50 thousand. It goes to his daughter in a trust.

Last June lawyer calls asks us how we want to deal with the money. We research a little and ask him a few questions, and tell him that we want to be on the trust account not GF (problems there with her stability and responsibility: drugs, moves around alot,has new 16 y/o BF, and just turned 18), but would do jointly if we have to, but try just us first.

We (DH and I) mention a bank or two that we are looking at.

Get frantic call from lawyer's aide end of Aug or beg Sept asking a couple of questions regarding baby's legal name and b-date, and the value of some savings bond. She says they are filing the petition with the court for setting up minors trust or whatever it's called , and finally settling the estate.

Beginning of Oct rolls around and I get an email stating when a court date is set, 10 days away. What we still have not received a copy of the petition!!

Go to court and basically lawyer reads from the motion. He reads the assets and expenses. The first Huh? was when he read that his fee was $7500! What we never signed anything about the fees for settling the estate (just the court case about the fatal car accident), but he's reading it out loud in court, I don't know if there's recourse on this point. Then he goes on and mentions which bank we want the fund deposited into, totally not one we would have ever chose!! Then he states that it would be joint custodians - me and GF! What, Huh?

After the motion hearing I tell him that in no way we want to use the bank he selected (he told us it was what we told him - nuh uh) and other lawyer (GF's) said no problem to switch as long as fdic insured.

OK over weekend I look up the rates for the 4 local banks and choose the one with the highest CD rates. Not much right now in the way of interest, but the only thing allowed; safe.

So I email lawyer Monday morning quick note stating which bank I want to use.

I get an email this afternoon from lawyer with a reply from GF's lawyer that they want another bank. I replied with the facts from the 2 websites rates pages. Double the interest at my choice compared to theirs.

My lawyer (I use the term my very loosely, because I think he's lawyering himself) with a copy of what he emailed to the other attny. It states that I want to use the other bank because of the better rates. And he asks lawyer if $5000 is acceptable as the amount for the accessible account. What? Huh?

He did not ask me about that at all!!!!

I have already figured an approximate amount that could be deducted yearly; to sustain the account through baby's childhood.

I never told him any other figuring, just which bank so he could file an ammendment to the court, because after court GF and I were told we were supposed to work it out. Now lawyers are doing the working out! Where did he pull $5000 figure from? his *** ?

I am so very frustrated with this lawyer making decisions and making them known to others before asking me or even letting me know beforehand!

I am thinking about another attorney, but I don't think the amount it would cost would be worth it.

, get in writing what was agreed to and make sure you have it from both sides. I would also file a complaint as chesire suggested.

 

[hentob]

I would suggest you contact the Ethics Committee of the Bar Association ASAP.

Yes!



AlaskaMOM, my heart breaks for you. First the loss of your son and now this garbage

I will keep you in my thoughts.

 

[DawnCt1]

At this point, could you take all of the proceedings and set up an educational fund that you will have sole ownership of and designate to be used by the grandchild. An accountant could help you do this for much less money.

 

[AlaskaMOM]

Well, I'm not sure about the $7500 fee although that doesn't sound that outrageous. Was there no discussion of costs when he started working on this?

It sounds like the mom wants to be much more involved with the trust than you prefer and her attorney is also making many requests to your attorney. Although it's understandable that you would like the money to last through the baby's childhood, $50,000 does not really go that far over 18 years. $5,000 a year does not seem unreasonable and the mom and baby are more likely to need the money much more now when the mom is so young, single and not earning much. Hopefully by the time the baby is older the mom will be more settled including financially and the trust will not be as vital to their well being.

Good luck with everything, no matter what the outcome it's a very difficult situation.

Actually I figured where the $7500 number came from. It's the totoal for both cases. So not bad. If only the lawyer would have given me a breakdown of the monies.

My biggest complaint is the fact that he has been making decisions w/o consulting me.

As for when the baby is older mom will be more settled, I really hope so! At this point she has nothing! She got mad a g-ma and moved out of g-ma (legal guardian) into g-pas got mad at him moved in with friend (also teen) then into 15 y/o boyfriends.
She has an 8th grade education, and has only worked a couple of days in her life (before "medical" problems caused her to quit)

Her ability to think about baby first was shown to us early.
Last Dec she called and asked us for money for formula, OK we didn't want to give her money outright, so took her to the store and bought her 2 cans of formula (can you say sticker shock!) We asked her about WIC. She said she had an appointment in 2 weeks.
OK baby is already 2 months old and no job, and no WIC how are you paying for formula??? and everything else?

(We have purchased a few packs of diapers and a few more cans of formula - probably one a month, and clothes and toys, and baby food jars/cereal)

She does not go to WIC, she waits for others to buy it for her.

And from her talk a few months ago she has been waiting for "the money" to finally get here to get a place and a car and...

There really is not enough money for that.

But I digressed into venting about her wasting her life. This post wasn't about that it was venting about my lawyer ignoring the fact he should check with me before talking to her lawyer.

 

[kymmyk13]

Way off of your topic here, but have you ever considered getting custody of the baby? The mother seemd very immature and unable to really take care of the baby. I wonder if she would not be happy to do it. Especially if no money was available for her from the estate.

 

[barkley]

it may be too late in the game for this, but did anyone ever discuss setting up the kind of trust that provides for the baby but (1) protects the monies, and (2) keeps the child eligible to public assistance if it's ever needed?

reason i ask this is because i handled several cases for social services where these kinds of trusts were in place. it provided a means to fund items throughout the child's younger years, it helped protect/ensured accountability for the monies (so it did'nt get blown on cars, rental deposits and "the new boyfriend") AND it helped maintain as much of the trust as possible for when the child reached adulthood (and they could idealy use it for their education).

if she applies for or is getting public assistance the minute they get wind of the trust (which the baby's social security number will trigger) she will be required to make a court application to break the trust (and legal aide will help her free of charge). unless it's written up in the trust that it can't be broken then she will be denied/discontinued until the money is pretty much gone (like under 1 or 2 thousand dollars). if there's wiggle room in the trust for it to provide income or periodic amounts for certain items of need, then it can result in reducing the regular monthy grants or creating entire periods of ineligibility (so if she manages to pull a couple thousand out, it could mean even if she blows it in 24 hours she/baby won't get assistance for 3 or 4 months).

if the trusts have not been set up, you might want to look into this.

 

[DisneyMomx7]

Does the baby get any social security benefits? I always thought that in addition to life insurance surviving children get social security. That would at least help her pay for the formula and diapers.

 

[Sanchez]

I would suggest you contact the Ethics Committee of the Bar Association ASAP.

That's rather rash and somewhat irresponsible advice at this point.

Who is the client? It seems, based on the limited information given that the lawyer represents the esate and not the OP individually. If the OP is the personal representative then input is from her is necessary but she does not have the right to unilaterally make decisions regarding the trust. Ultimately the probate will rule on matters regarding the trust as well as the reasonableness of attorney fees.

I am not taking the lawyer's side here because I have no idea what information has been shared with the client. It may be that the lawyer has acted inappropriately. However, it certainly would be a good idea to understand the depth of the situation before you offer advice that could put a professional's license at risk.

 

[disneyplanningdad]

It sounds like nothing was finalized in court the last time. I agree with Cheshire but also keep in mind that the judge is looking out for the best interestest of the child. If you have any doubt that the sest interest of the child are not being met you should make that known to the judge before anything is finalized.

 

[disneyplanningdad]

That's rather rash and somewhat irresponsible advice at this point.

Who is the client? It seems, based on the limited information given that the lawyer represents the esate and not the OP individually. If the OP is the personal representative then input is from her is necessary but she does not have the right to unilaterally make decisions regarding the trust. Ultimately the probate will rule on matters regarding the trust as well as the reasonableness of attorney fees.

I am not taking the lawyer's side here because I have no idea what information has been shared with the client. It may be that the lawyer has acted inappropriately. However, it certainly would be a good idea to understand the depth of the situation before you offer advice that could put a professional's license at risk.

If the lawyer did nothing wrong then his license is not at risk. At the very least he has violated his duty to adaquately communicate with his clients.

 

[Sanchez]

If the lawyer did nothing wrong then his license is not at risk. At the very least he has violated his duty to adaquately communicate with his clients.

How do you surmise this? First, are you certain that the OP is the client? What information do you have that reflects that she is the client? Second, are you certain that relevant matters have not been communicated? What are those matters?

Sounds like OP is more concerned about the bank account than matters which would violate the lawyer's duty to communicate.

 

[barkley]

Does the baby get any social security benefits? I always thought that in addition to life insurance surviving children get social security. That would at least help her pay for the formula and diapers.

only if the deceased parent had enough quarters in the system-in my experience, it was a rare case where the child of someone who passed away at a young age qualified for this benefit.

 

[disneyplanningdad]

Last June lawyer calls asks us how we want to deal with the money.

Get frantic call from lawyer's aide end of Aug or beg Sept asking a couple of questions ...

Beginning of Oct rolls around and I get an email stating when a court date is set, 10 days away.

I get an email this afternoon from lawyer with a reply from GF's lawyer that they want another bank.

My lawyer

I am thinking about another attorney, but I don't think the amount it would cost would be worth it.

Each of these things tells me that OP is the client, especilly the one that says "my lawyer." My assumption is that OP is the representative of the estate of her son and that the lawyer is her representative in her capacity as the representative of the estate. OP has an affirmative fiduciary resposibility to manage the assets of the estate. If she feels this lawyr is not protecting those assets, the lawyer should be fired. By going to the local bar association she can get better answers than she can get from us.

 

[barkley]

the other thing that occurs to me re. the lawyer's fees is what that lawyer actualy did, and weather there could be multiple fee structures happening.

if they handled-

(1) an insurance settlement, then it could be a percentage of the proceeds,

then if they handled the

(2) estate-many states have a set amount with a minimum charge if a lawyer is involved in probating it (in my former it would have been $2500 minimum for what the op's showing as the net after expenses, but because the law looks at the gross, it probably would have been closer to $4000),

and

(3) establishing a trust can be a flat fee for service or if it's going to entail having to work with another lawyer, one that's based on billable hours (when we were helping mil look at the possibility of setting one up for a family member, because it would have entailed having to work with another lawyer and working around their schedual the price was prohibitive vs. a straight forward trust).


figure if as the op sez, the fees for the settlement were prenegotiated, just doing an estate and a trust (where there are multiple parties and lawyers putting in their wants/opinions) could easily run $7500.


as someone said-even if the op is the personal rep. for the estate, that person does'nt get all the say in what happens/how things are set up. they have in-put, but absent a will directing the who/what's and where's it all falls to the law on how things get distributed and set (and with a minor, esp. one whose own mother has not been a legal adut for very long-it could have the potential for being a much more detailed process that a lawyer does not feel the need/have the legal obligation to a personal rep. to discuss in detail).

 

[AlaskaMOM]

Way off of your topic here, but have you ever considered getting custody of the baby? The mother seemd very immature and unable to really take care of the baby. I wonder if she would not be happy to do it. Especially if no money was available for her from the estate.

Yes we actually thought about it a few times. Even so far as to call CPS to ask questions after we found a number of pictures of partying posted to her myspace. But kind of backed off with how hard it was to get info from CPS.

it may be too late in the game for this, but did anyone ever discuss setting up the kind of trust that provides for the baby but (1) protects the monies, and (2) keeps the child eligible to public assistance if it's ever needed?

reason i ask this is because i handled several cases for social services where these kinds of trusts were in place. it provided a means to fund items throughout the child's younger years, it helped protect/ensured accountability for the monies (so it did'nt get blown on cars, rental deposits and "the new boyfriend") AND it helped maintain as much of the trust as possible for when the child reached adulthood (and they could idealy use it for their education).

if she applies for or is getting public assistance the minute they get wind of the trust (which the baby's social security number will trigger) she will be required to make a court application to break the trust (and legal aide will help her free of charge). unless it's written up in the trust that it can't be broken then she will be denied/discontinued until the money is pretty much gone (like under 1 or 2 thousand dollars). if there's wiggle room in the trust for it to provide income or periodic amounts for certain items of need, then it can result in reducing the regular monthy grants or creating entire periods of ineligibility (so if she manages to pull a couple thousand out, it could mean even if she blows it in 24 hours she/baby won't get assistance for 3 or 4 months).

if the trusts have not been set up, you might want to look into this.

I have been thinking of this also. I think the government assistance will come into play eventually. But I do not know what type of account this would fall under. As it stands it will be a FDIC insured bank with some of the money in CDs and some in savings. I do know that the court is the one in charge of the money until baby is 18. Would that make it "safe" from government's reach?

Does the baby get any social security benefits? I always thought that in addition to life insurance surviving children get social security. That would at least help her pay for the formula and diapers.

No my son had just turned 19 3 days before he died. Not enough time to earn enough.

Each of these things tells me that OP is the client, especilly the one that says "my lawyer." My assumption is that OP is the representative of the estate of her son and that the lawyer is her representative in her capacity as the representative of the estate. OP has an affirmative fiduciary resposibility to manage the assets of the estate. If she feels this lawyr is not protecting those assets, the lawyer should be fired. By going to the local bar association she can get better answers than she can get from us.

Yes Personal Rep of estate. I hired the lawyer.
I don't know about the not protecting part, I was just extremely frustrated at his discussing things with the other lawyer as if I had already agreed.

 

[AlaskaMOM]

the other thing that occurs to me re. the lawyer's fees is what that lawyer actualy did, and weather there could be multiple fee structures happening.

if they handled-

(1) an insurance settlement, then it could be a percentage of the proceeds,

then if they handled the

(2) estate-many states have a set amount with a minimum charge if a lawyer is involved in probating it (in my former it would have been $2500 minimum for what the op's showing as the net after expenses, but because the law looks at the gross, it probably would have been closer to $4000),

and

(3) establishing a trust can be a flat fee for service or if it's going to entail having to work with another lawyer, one that's based on billable hours (when we were helping mil look at the possibility of setting one up for a family member, because it would have entailed having to work with another lawyer and working around their schedual the price was prohibitive vs. a straight forward trust).


figure if as the op sez, the fees for the settlement were prenegotiated, just doing an estate and a trust (where there are multiple parties and lawyers putting in their wants/opinions) could easily run $7500.


as someone said-even if the op is the personal rep. for the estate, that person does'nt get all the say in what happens/how things are set up. they have in-put, but absent a will directing the who/what's and where's it all falls to the law on how things get distributed and set (and with a minor, esp. one whose own mother has not been a legal adut for very long-it could have the potential for being a much more detailed process that a lawyer does not feel the need/have the legal obligation to a personal rep. to discuss in detail).

The fees are from rule 82 (I think that's the right number)

As for me getting my way on how it's all done, I know that it's not up to me, but I do get to voice my opinion, as well as the other side, and if it disagrees too much the court can mediate. I just want to be informed and/or consulted with before discussing with attorney for "other side"

 

[chloelovesdisney]

Sorry, this is a very difficult situation. The mom will have a very hard time raising a baby being so young and only having an 8th grade education. Hopefully she will get herself together so she can do better by her daughter. I know you will look out for them as best you can. Perhaps it would help if you emailed/sent a letter to the lawyer requesting that he inform you of all developments before discussing them with the mom's lawyer. I think it helps to have things in writing.