Lawsuit over Disneyland's Magic Key Passport

[DisneyJamieCA]

I can understand your viewpoint but that's really neither here nor there how you feel about separate buckets (not saying this rudely just that it's not pertinent to the lawsuit). It's about whether Disney is in the wrong here or not with how they structured, sold, and implemented their product. The lawsuit may not go anywhere but I can see why one was filed.

I could see this going some place if the separate buckets were new when the Keys came out. But they weren’t. Since Disneyland reopened there have been 1 day, hopper & on-site hotel buckets. And some did run out before others.

They didn’t block out dates on these passes. They just became unavailable. I think part of the problem is that previous pass holders were used to being able to plan last minute trips and they can’t now.

While I don’t necessarily think what Disney is doing is fair & ethical, but I’m not sure it’s illegal. The T&C clearly laid out that reservations weren’t guaranteed and that only a certain number could be held at a time. And all Key holders have the option of staying onsite if they really wanted to go.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I could see this going some place if the separate buckets were new when the Keys came out. But they weren’t. Since Disneyland reopened there have been 1 day, hopper & on-site hotel buckets. And some did run out before others.

They didn’t block out dates on these passes. They just became unavailable. I think part of the problem is that previous pass holders were used to being able to plan last minute trips and they can’t now.

While I don’t necessarily think what Disney is doing is fair & ethical, but I’m not sure it’s illegal. The T&C clearly laid out that reservations weren’t guaranteed and that only a certain number could be held at a time. And all Key holders have the option of staying onsite if they really wanted to go.

Saying staying on site if you really wanted to go that's missing the big picture.

That's where they went sideways here with the APs with adding them into a reservation system. That's their mistake if for no other reason than they knew issues could arise with the client base they have being predominantly locals and AP holders.

I'm just saying I get why the suit was filed.

Lawsuits aren't always about illegal. Many people file based in ethical issues. In fact lawsuits based on ethical issues can create laws that protect others in the future or have judgments that serve to protect others. Who knows what will happen here of course.

 

[Planogirl]

Disney promised no blackouts and restricting these passes is in effect blackouts. This is misleading.

But what do I know? It will be a cold day somewhere before I make reservations to visit a themepark.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

Saying staying on site if you really wanted to go that's missing the big picture.

That's where they went sideways here with the APs with adding them into a reservation system. That's their mistake if for no other reason than they knew issues could arise with the client base they have being predominantly locals and AP holders.

I'm just saying I get why the suit was filed.

Lawsuits aren't always about illegal. Many people file based in ethical issues. In fact lawsuits based on ethical issues can create laws that protect others in the future or have judgments that serve to protect others. Who knows what will happen here of course.

As I said, I don’t think it’s ethical, but there IS a way people can still access reservations.

Had the buckets not existed before, I agree it would have been totally misleading. In this case, I think it’s people wanting these passes to act the same way they did pre-Covid and they never promised to. The truth is, at one point all dates were open. They just sold out. Just like pre-Covid, if a park reached capacity, my pass didn’t guarantee me entry. The real issue is the limited number of reservations that one can hold at a time, severely limiting how far in the future most can book. But that was known upon purchase. The limitations is the reason we didn’t buy passes.

 

[EACarlson]

As I said, I don’t think it’s ethical, but there IS a way people can still access reservations.

Had the buckets not existed before, I agree it would have been totally misleading. In this case, I think it’s people wanting these passes to act the same way they did pre-Covid and they never promised to. The truth is, at one point all dates were open. They just sold out. Just like pre-Covid, if a park reached capacity, my pass didn’t guarantee me entry. The real issue is the limited number of reservations that one can hold at a time, severely limiting how far in the future most can book. But that was known upon purchase. The limitations is the reason we didn’t buy passes.

No, the real issue is that Disney made only a certain number of reservations open to pass holders but many more to those with day tickets. Discovery will be very interesting in seeing if Disney adjusted the number of pass holder available slots based on days and how many of the lower tier passholders were blacked out. If say they allotted 10% of the reservations to pass holders on a day with no blackouts and then allotted 6% on a day where only the highest tier passholders could access the park then I think the plaintiffs have a very good case. If it's the same amount each day and the separate bucket issue is declared in the T&Cs then the case should be dismissed.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

if a park reached capacity, my pass didn’t guarantee me entry

The park didn't reach capacity in this case and that's not the argument being used for the lawsuit.

I hear you on looking at pre-covid for comparison like passes not guaranteed admission but it's apples to oranges now, Disney launched a new system and a new AP. They did not have to include a pass that offered no blackouts. Disney thought they could more easily merge a park reservation system in with a concept they used in the past (AP and AP with no blackouts) with a park full of passholders.

The truth is, at one point all dates were open. They just sold out.

They were "sold out" for AP holders which is way different than a capacity thing. The reaching capacity of a park really shouldn't be used as a rationale for this, because the park was not in fact at capacity.

 

[longboard55]

I think the system works fine. We like to go maybe two times a month, so no issues. The other options are no more passes, or hike the price to a crazy amount. BTW most days are available on last day cancellations. We went last Sunday, booking sunday morning.

 

[longboard55]

OK just checked, with the pass any of the next 5 days available. A month ago none were available. You need to learn how to work the system, people book and cancel.

 

[_19disnA]

Seems that someone is always trying to find a reason to sue large companies. Generally it is the lawyers who get most of any settlement, so they have an incentive to find reasons to sue. Not sure of all the 'fine print' associated with this type of ticket, but if it doesn't say you are always guaranteed of admission (or some similar wording), then likely there isn't much of a case here. Just because the old system worked a certain way is no guarantee that is how this new system works.

 

[bcla]

Seems that someone is always trying to find a reason to sue large companies. Generally it is the lawyers who get most of any settlement, so I they have an incentive to find reasons to sue. Not sure of all the 'fine print' associated with this type of ticket, but if it doesn't say you are always guaranteed of admission (or some similar wording), then likely there isn't much of a case here. Just because the old system worked a certain way is no guarantee that is how this new system works.

It would depend on how oversold this is. If there are 3000 of the highest tier pass holders and only 5 available reservations for specific days, I’d think a decent attorney could argue breach of contract. But of course the really big thing here is that Disney doesn’t want this to get to discovery where they might need to disclose their proprietary crowd control information.

 

[disneychrista]

OK just checked, with the pass any of the next 5 days available. A month ago none were available. You need to learn how to work the system, people book and cancel.

I also assume that they WANT a certain level of attendance, so if one bucket isn’t filling up, they “move” the allotment to another one.

 

[longboard55]

My guess is the following are here to stay
Park reservations
Food orders
Separating characters from the crowds.

the one thing I really disliked about Disney was when it was so packed you could barely move

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

My guess is the following are here to stay
Park reservations
Food orders
Separating characters from the crowds.

the one thing I really disliked about Disney was when it was so packed you could barely move

They already said park reservations weren’t going away anytime soon so yup I wouldn't expect it to go away at least for the foreseeable future

 

[PirateBrigade]

It was clearly spelled out in the terms and conditions. Annual pass holders were never guaranteed admission

Technically correct, but the suit is calling that misleading because the top-line advertisement is for an unrestricted/no blackout date pass. Reservation caps were kind of a "backdoor blackout date" end-run.

It's like selling you a bottle of water advertised as "fresh and clean water," but putting in the fine print on the bottle that it's actually sewer water filtered through a napkin.

The old AP always had that "does not guarantee access" line in the T&C's, but it was more defensible because the actual factors preventing admission were fire safety/maximum capacity, weather, earthquakes, or other calamity.

What I'm really most interested in is the discovery phase of this lawsuit -- my gut says this will get settled out of court, if anything, to avoid having to disclose the exact cap numbers in use at DLR and the determining factors that go into it. Same with any internal discussions regarding revenue, balancing available days between tranches, etc... That's all fair game in discovery, I think, but a seasoned attorney can expand on that more.

I believe Disney would rather not have that internal discussion out there -- 3600 potential class members, even if you refunded every single one of them (doubtful), that amounts to what... $5.4M? (3600 x $1500) + attorney's fees? That's a drop in the bucket, and you know the actual settlement will be much less (make an opt out/full refund an option only--I think few people would take it).

 

[Moliphino]

Seems that someone is always trying to find a reason to sue large companies. Generally it is the lawyers who get most of any settlement, so I they have an incentive to find reasons to sue. Not sure of all the 'fine print' associated with this type of ticket, but if it doesn't say you are always guaranteed of admission (or some similar wording), then likely there isn't much of a case here. Just because the old system worked a certain way is no guarantee that is how this new system works.

It's not even in the fine print, it's right in the pass description: "Park reservations are subject to availability and are not guaranteed for any specific dates or park".

 

[SteveMouse]

It would seem to me that Disney has established capacity boxes for different ticket types for each day, and when those boxes are full for the day, it’s over for holders of that ticket type not previously reserved for.

If it worked as the plaintiff wants it to, then their same logic would/ should apply to holders of single day tickets since there isn’t a “blackout” or specific calendar day tickets are purchased for, such as what they’re doing in Disney World.

 

[Nabas]

It's not even in the fine print, it's right in the pass description: "Park reservations are subject to availability and are not guaranteed for any specific dates or park".

Yes but this does not specify that Annual Pass availability is lumped into a different category than day tickets or onsite Guest tickets.

I think the frustration is that Annual Passholders cannot get in even when others can, and that this happens A LOT.

Remember, Chapek has publicly expressed near-contempt for Annual Passholders. His public statements almost certainly will used against Disney. Chapek might very well decide to settle in order to avoid being called as a witness because of his public statements.

One possible settlement is to release any excess park capacity to Annual Passholders X days before.

 

[Karin1984]

Regardless of the T&Cs, isn't there something as 'reasonable expectation'?

When I worked for a frequent flyer program, one of the most heard complaints was 'I can never use my miles'. When asking further, you come to the conclusion, they only want to fly around the holidays to the most popular destinations. Is that a reasonable expectation. No.

If in this case that even in low season there are no reservations available, then you have a better case.

 

[disneychrista]

One possible settlement is to release any excess park capacity to Annual Passholders X days before.

I think they already do this, since reservations DO become available for previously blocked out dates. Disneyland wants people in the park. They aren’t going to hold back reservations if they can be filled in other categories.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Regardless of the T&Cs, isn't there something as 'reasonable expectation'?

When I worked for a frequent flyer program, one of the most heard complaints was 'I can never use my miles'. When asking further, you come to the conclusion, they only want to fly around the holidays to the most popular destinations. Is that a reasonable expectation. No.

If in this case that even in low season there are no reservations available, then you have a better case.

I'm going to guess the reasonable expectation is that when you purchase a no-blackout AP you aren't blackout. If Disney couldn't reasonably accommodate during a busy season like the holidays then they should have not sold a no-blackout AP.

Disney started from scratch here. They halted APs advising they would be back with a new product, they built the reservation system and launched a new AP. This was all in their control.

From what I saw over with WDW they also stopped selling APs as well.

I truly do not think Disney thought out how a reservation system would go over, would technically work (meaning actual tech) with APs. They are just in much more of an issue with DLR because of how many locals there are.

I don't believe airline miles programs can reasonably be related to Disney's reservation system with all due respect. They just aren't the same in terms of how they function.