Latest SwiftBoats Vets commercial...

[inaminute]

Back to those disgusting purple bandaids........... they were passed out by a personal friend of Carl Rove...... surprise ..surprise

So what?

Are you in control of everything YOUR personal friends do--100% of the time?

 

[WillyJ]

Everytime there's a low-life, grossly insulting, dishonest campaign tactic that's aimed at an opponant of George Bush you'll find a connection to Karl Rove. .


Just ask John McCain. .


Mermaid02,

So you read the testimony and now know the commercials are deliberately misleading and yet it doesn't change your assessment of them?

You have a right to your opinion of course, but have you asked yourself why they'd need to create a false image of what Kerry's testimony was about if they have such a strong case?


Usually people don't lie when the truth is on their side. .

 

[Pop Daddy]

Willy I believe the point of the commercial is that Kerry, whos point to being elecetd is he fought in Vietam, tunred on the people who fought with him, and if thats his main point he is unfit for command. Today e might appoligiese for the sattment


long post

 

[Mermaid02]

I have thought Kerry was talking about things he DID or things he saw others do for quite sometime- not because of the commercial. So when I saw the commercial (and I admit I wasn't really paying attention at the beginning- until I knew it was this new commercial) I just figured it was more of the same.

 

[Abracadabra]

Originally posted by WillyJ
Everytime there's a low-life, grossly insulting, dishonest campaign tactic that's aimed at an opponant of George Bush you'll find a connection to Karl Rove.

Evidence, please?

 

[WillyJ]

Well you're right Jason, that is the point of the commercial. . . except it's purposefully misleading.


The commercial (and the right-wing talk show hosts who have been playing the same clip the same way for months) purposefully leave the false impression that Kerry was accusing his fellow Vets of those acts rather then the truth which is that he was relaying to congress what other Vets had previously testified to. .

From the actual testimony:

"Thank you very much, Senator Fulbright, Senator Javits, Senator Symington, Senator Pell. I would like to say for the record, and also for the men behind me who are also wearing the uniforms and their medals, that my sitting here is really symbolic. I am not here as John Kerry. I am here as one member of the group of veterans in this country, and were it possible for all of them to sit at this table they would be here and have the same kind of testimony.

I would simply like to speak in very general terms. I apologize if my statement is general because I received notification yesterday you would hear me and I am afraid because of the injunction I was up most of the night and haven't had a great deal of chance to prepare.

I would like to talk, representing all those veterans, and say that several months ago in Detroit, we had an investigation at which over 150 honorably discharged and many very highly decorated veterans testified to war crimes committed in Southeast Asia, not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command.

It is impossible to describe to you exactly what did happen in Detroit, the emotions in the room, the feelings of the men who were reliving their experiences in Vietnam, but they did. They relived the absolute horror of what this country, in a sense, made them do.

They told the stories at times they had personally. . ."


And that's where the commercial picks up leaving out the important context of Kerry speaking for other Vets and not testifying against them. .

And if you read the rest of the text, you'll see he defends his fellow Vets and puts all the blame directly on the politicians who put and kept our young men in an unwinnable situation. .

I can understand people thinking it was something that it clearly isn't; that's the intent of playing only a portion of the testimony in such a dishonest manner. . .

 

[Elwood Blues]

Originally posted by Pop Daddy



long post

incredibly long for you Jason. Nice work!!

 

[Mamu]

I was in my teens when this war started and a young bride when it escalated. I lost family and friends all right out of HS they were drafted while still in their teens.

Our country was torn apart because of this war. It took years and years to heal. Most Veterans still cannot talk about it ugliness without crying.

Is John Kerry a Hero, Yes he is! Anyone who served in this nightmare war is. You can try to sweep the ugliness of this war under the rug all you want, it happened.

It's time for The Swift Boat Vets to take their boats and sail away swiftly or start telling the whole truth

 

[Elwood Blues]

Originally posted by WillyJ
Well you're right Jason, that is the point of the commercial. . . except it's purposefully misleading.


The commercial (and the right-wing talk show hosts who have been playing the same clip the same way for months) purposefully leave the false impression that Kerry was accusing his fellow Vets of those acts rather then the truth which is that he was relaying to congress what other Vets had previously testified to. .

From the actual testimony:

"Thank you very much, Senator Fulbright, Senator Javits, Senator Symington, Senator Pell. I would like to say for the record, and also for the men behind me who are also wearing the uniforms and their medals, that my sitting here is really symbolic. I am not here as John Kerry. I am here as one member of the group of veterans in this country, and were it possible for all of them to sit at this table they would be here and have the same kind of testimony.

I would simply like to speak in very general terms. I apologize if my statement is general because I received notification yesterday you would hear me and I am afraid because of the injunction I was up most of the night and haven't had a great deal of chance to prepare.

I would like to talk, representing all those veterans, and say that several months ago in Detroit, we had an investigation at which over 150 honorably discharged and many very highly decorated veterans testified to war crimes committed in Southeast Asia, not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command.

It is impossible to describe to you exactly what did happen in Detroit, the emotions in the room, the feelings of the men who were reliving their experiences in Vietnam, but they did. They relived the absolute horror of what this country, in a sense, made them do.

They told the stories at times they had personally. . ."


And that's where the commercial picks up leaving out the important context of Kerry speaking for other Vets and not testifying against them. .

And if you read the rest of the text, you'll see he defends his fellow Vets and puts all the blame directly on the politicians who put and kept our young men in an unwinnable situation. .

I can understand people thinking it was something that it clearly isn't; that's the intent of playing only a portion of the testimony in such a dishonest manner. . .

How can it be misleading when it the ad clip starts off with "They told the stories....?" Surely anyone with half a brain (even Republicans ) would see that he's NOT referring to himself. If there's anything missing or out of context, it's that he wasn't an eyewitness. But he clarified that later on by admitting to doing some of those things as well. To say that it's misleading people into thinking that he (Kerry) was accusing other soldiers of crimes is not very significant in my POV.

Do you really think that the preceding statements make all that much difference to the crux of his testimony? I sure don't.

And besides, what does it really matter what he says in the ad clip version because it was mostly untrue. The main point that I got from it was what the one POW said, that he (Kerry) gave the enemy something willingly that they were tortured for.

It seems you are more concerned that the ad is apparently misleading to some rather than with the impact the actual testimony had on the soldiers and POWs still in country.

 

[Elwood Blues]

Originally posted by Mamu


It's time for The Swift Boat Vets to take their boats and sail away swiftly or start telling the whole truth

And would that apply to Kerry too?

 

[ThAnswr]

Originally posted by Pop Daddy
Willy I believe the point of the commercial is that Kerry, whos point to being elecetd is he fought in Vietam, tunred on the people who fought with him, and if thats his main point he is unfit for command. Today e might appoligiese for the sattment


long post

Specifically, just how did John Kerry turn on the veterans who fought with him? I keep reading/hearing this, but no one quite explains the specifics.

From my POV, the only veterans who are turning on their fellow veterans are the Swift Boat Vets For half-Truth who seem to be turning on Kerry, his crew, Jim Rassman, Max Cleland, and the Viet Nam Veterans for John Kerry.

Kerry never called his fellow veterans "war criminals". And as far as the SWBV's for half-Truth saying no atrocities or war crimes were committed, maybe they can explain William Calley.

 

[peachgirl]

How can it be misleading when it the ad clip starts off with "They told the stories....?"

That's not what the commercial says at all.

It starts off with...

"They had personally raped"


And that is exactly the point...had they just included what he really said then it changes the entire meaning. Which, of course, is why they didn't.

If they weren't trying to mislead, then instead of putting in "They had personally raped", they would have put in "They told the stories at times they had personally raped....."

The fact that they have to mis-lead to make their point only means that the truth isn't enough.

I stand by my statement that it is very powerful.

Lies often are.

 

[Mamu]

Eiwood Blues I normally do not reply to post. I will here.

Any truth can be distorted. You will have a different story to each truth. and both can be the truth. We remember the truth in many ways, some choose to forget part of the truth, because it's uncomfortable.

None of these ads are the whole truth, is Kerry telling the whole truth, maybe not. Honestly do the people really want to hear the whole ugly truth about Vietnam. I think not.

I would never call anyone a prevaricator. Some only remember parts and choose to forget the rest.

 

[Elwood Blues]

Originally posted by ThAnswr
Specifically, just how did John Kerry turn on the veterans who fought with him? I keep reading/hearing this, but no one quite explains the specifics.

Unless you're referring to only the ones that served directly with him, I have heard several POWs (this man specifically http://www.colbudday.com ) say they strongly felt that he did.

Kerry never called his fellow veterans "war criminals". And as far as the SWBV's for half-Truth saying no atrocities or war crimes were committed, maybe they can explain William Calley.

True, he didn't because he didn't believe that what they committed were because they were ordered to. They were only following orders.

I think they said *they* didn't commit any. Maybe they said none. If they did, then they need to clarify themselves. But to paint the whole bunch as liars with an axe to grind is quite unfair.

What is really boils down to is that Kerry is not being completely truthful about events that happened and possibly neither are the SBVs, but to fully believe one over the other does no good. We all know that the truth is somewhere in the middle. But Kerry wants us all to believe it's all true. It was he that brought his VN record to the forefront of his campaign and now he complains when some people scrutinize it.

So what's the answer? What's the point of even talking about it?

 

[Elwood Blues]

Originally posted by Mamu
Elwood Blues I normally do not reply to post. I will here.

Any truth can be distorted. You will have a different story to each truth. and both can be the truth. We remember the truth in many ways, some choose to forget part of the truth, because it's uncomfortable.

None of these ads are the whole truth, is Kerry telling the whole truth, maybe not. Honestly do the people really want to hear the whole ugly truth about Vietnam. I think not.

I would never call anyone a prevaricator. Some only remember parts and choose to forget the rest.

IMO, there can only be one version of the truth.

 

[Bobbles]

Originally posted by DawnCt1
That's a silly comment. A link was provided to the ad so it could be viewed. What difference does it make where it came from?

Oh really? Sorry it offended you.
Thanks for your "opinion". As "silly" as I think it was.