Laptops and cell phones can be seized at the border.

[usetheforceluke]

I noticed this morning on cbc.ca there is an article that outlines the ability of the U.S. Border Services to seize your laptop and cell phone:

"The policy gives border agents at any point of entry into the United States the authority to also take documents, books, pamphlets and hard drives. The items can be seized from anyone crossing the border and may then be copied and shared with other government agencies"

I guess the intent is in this paragraph:

""These examinations are part of ... long-standing practice and are essential to uncovering vital law-enforcement information," the policy says, noting examinations help authorities detect possible instances of terrorism, narcotics smuggling, child pornography and violations of copyright and trademark laws."

(Two paragraphs lifted from the article, located here: http://www.cbc.ca/consumer/story/2008/08/01/border-searches.html )

It should be interesting to see what happens with this one.

Jim.

 

[pxlbarrel]

I think they've had this ability/power for a while. One has to remember that although they can do it, it doesn't necessarily mean it's going to happen to you. With the amount of laptops, ipods, Blackberries, etc going across the border each minute, let alone each day, the logistics on confiscating just some of these would be a nightmare. Where would they store them? Do they have the manpower to do this?

I can't believe they'll look at everybody's laptop without there being a reason to do so. Whether it be racial profiling, a suspicious glint in your eye, a tip, whatever, I have to believe that there has to be a reason before they'll take your laptop.

Otherwise, it would be pure chaos. Some people's lives are contained on their Blackberries. I'd hate to be the one who said to such a person, "Give me your Blackberry, you'll get it back in a few months." Yikes!

 

[TreesyB]

I'd heard about this on a CBC radio. They interviewed a lawyer who's firm is now a virtual firm. No documents are allowed on the laptops, they are only allowed to use secure internet connections to access files.

Could you imagine the scandal if they confiscated a lawyer's laptop?!

 

[usetheforceluke]

The article certainly implied (to me, at least) that this option was 'new'.

I can appreciate the comment about seizing a Blackberry, but actually, the first thing that crossed my mind is the comment about copyright violation. Generally speaking there are a number of variations between their copyright laws and our laws, and if you have any mp3s on your laptop, the likelihood of you being in contravention of their laws is almost 100%. You may not be a terrorist, but you're more than likely be a music copier, or if you're not careful, you more than likely have other files on your hard drive that aren't 'o.k.'.

I take my laptop with me wherever I go, especially to Disney. We both like to keep up on our email, and we use it to get our Southwest tickets. I have virtually 'all' of my important files on a portable drive that gets left in a lockup while we're away, so if they wanted to seize my laptop, it would be 'inconvenient' until I bought another laptop, but it wouldn't be the end of the world.

Jim.

 

[Northstar]

Actually, Canada and many other countries can do the same to anyone entering the country. Don't know if Canada does this to Canadian citizens, but I know they do occasionally with foreign nationals entering Canada.

I think many, many companies have policies of not allowing employees to cross a border with company files on their laptops... you're supposed to e-mail the files to yourself or have them stashed on a secure website that you can access once you're across the border.

About the downloaded music... come on, they'd have to really, really want to nab you for other reasons before they'd investigate whether you've got pirated music files. And that would be a civil crime, anyway, wouldn't it... the kind of thing where they can sue you, but not arrest you and put you in jail?

I'd worry more about the privacy of my information than about them looking into whether I pay for my music downloads.

 

[Luhts]

Well, they're not going to confiscate that stuff at random...they'd have to have 'just cause'. And as for the MP3's, I could be wrong, but wouldn't the US have legitimate music download websites the same as we have here? You know, the ones where you actually pay for the music you download?

 

[cdnmickeylover]

They do have websites that you can pay to download music but not everyone pays to download music -- right now it's not illegal in Canada to download without paying - in the US it is illegal and they are cracking down on it. If they take your laptop they CAN tell how you got your downloads.

Everyone has to realize that the US is a different country with different rules and laws. It is not the same as Canada. If you are arrested in the US you can't simply come back to Canada and deal with it here and the Canadian government doesn't have to help you.

 

[CanadianGuy]

As a person who grew up just about 8 miles from the international border with the US I can assure you that the US Border Patrol and Customs Folks have had the legal right to withhold ANY of your personal belongings, including but not limited to, your computer, your MP3 player, your cell phone, your digital camera, your film camera, exposed but undeveloped film, any data storage device (digital or analog) or any personal belonging including your vehicle for as long as they like for darned near any reason they like. There are a list of specific reasons.. but they are sufficiently vague that one can be applied to just about ANY situation at their 'say-so' or 'suspicion'.

All they are legally required to do is give you a receipt indicating they have kept it and there are formal means for you to apply to get it back. Of course if they find anything contraband in nature.. then well.. that's when things get really hairy.

It's the same power that means they can sit you down and run a full FBI and other criminal background and fingerprint check on you before you are allowed to enter their country. Very rarely do they exercise that option -- but I can assure you they have it; have had it for YEARS and from personal experience I can tell you that if they choose to exercise it can delay your entry to the U.S. by hours or mean you aren't allowed to enter at all.

I think that that this article while it might be making this sound like a 'new' thing.. is actively pointing out that this is something that has been happening with increasing frequency to Canadians for 'random' reasons.

Knox

 

[pxlbarrel]

I asked this on another group that I was in and received a negative response as in nobody answered "yes".

Does anybody actually know somebody who has had their laptop seized by the U.S. government?

As I said earlier, I believe they've had this power for a while but I also don't believe it's done widescale or we would have heard more about this.

And if it's copyrighted material they're looking for, I would hope that Homeland Security is NOT in the business of looking for copyrighted material and is concentrating more on terrorists.

 

[Lollipop's Mom]

I have traveled back and forth with my laptop for years. I live 2 mins from the border and my daughter has a best friend across the border. I frequently go across to drop her off for a weekend sleepover. I have had my laptop sitting on my front seat a few times - never gave it a thought, and never been asked about it. I think they do have to have some good reasons before going to this extreme, but it can happen.
I work from home and travel with my laptop to keep in touch with clients, so it goes everywhere with me.

 

[cdnmickeylover]

I in fact do know someone that was turned away from the border and was denied entry into the US.

My brother had a co-worker detained by the US on the way back from a company retreat in Arizona. He was detained for hours and missed the flight back to Toronto. He was a lawyer and there was no reason to detain him.

My brother has a blackberry for work and does travel to the US for work - the company policy is that the blackberry has to be blanked before it crosses the border.

We have almost been denied entry to the US simply because we were going to WDW without kids. We have also had our car approached by gun toting border guards because the officer in the booth punched in my licence plate incorrectly.

The point is that the US customs and border control has far reaching powers and they can use them randomly. They've had them for years but since 9/11 they are more far reaching and more random. Just because you don't look like a terrorist doesn't mean that they won't pick you to search.

The OP was just pointing out that it's better to be safe than sorry -- if you have something important on your laptop that you don't want to lose - back it up to an external drive and leave it at home because if you cross the border with it you might have it taken from you. The chances are probably small but the chances are small you'll win the lottery too and yet we keep buying tickets.

 

[pxlbarrel]

Wow, I've crossed the border a lot over my liftime and have never had anything close to resembling what you just described. I know they can become twitchy but that's incredible. I just came back from Disneyland and the customs guy at Pearson asked me why I was going to Los Angeles. I said that I was going to Disneyland. He smiled and said, "that's great. You haven't grown up yet!" and let me go on my way. I think that guy needs to train the guy who nearly stopped you because you had no kids in tow. really... <shaking my head> I think the head Mouse needs to talk to U.S. Immigration.

I wasn't suggesting there wasn't a risk of US Customs and Immigration taking your laptop but I do suggest that it's not happening with great frequency at the moment or we would be hearing more about it than snippets of news every few months. I heard about this probably half a year ago.

When I travel for leisure, my laptop contains almost nothing. It has software so I can edit my photos but essentially, it's my means to an internet connection. The only thing I would be missing if they confiscated the laptop would be the laptop itself. That, in itself, would be really annoying.

As for blanking out Blackberries. A lot of people use that as their scheduler, address book, etc. How do you blank that out without rendering it virtually useless as a Blackberry?

Now, if I travel for work...like I hope to be doing in October, depending on funding...my work is on that laptop... photographs, documents etc. Except for the photographs, everything else should is backed up on a server at work. The photographs, on the other hand, are not (too big) and that WOULD be a major problem if they confiscated the laptop. I work for the provincial government in one of the justice ministries so I wonder if they'd still take it. Hmmmm

 

[Ham Ham]

Better not have this link.
The border folks will have you in lock up real quick.

http://boortz.com/mp3/archive/countdown.swf

 

[pxlbarrel]

Actually, I think they'd be running....

You're twisted....LOL

 

[CanadianGuy]

I got the same questions at a border crossing about gonig to Disney World without kids or other family in tow. He was downright suspicious.

!

Knox

 

[snickerboo]

Don't worry about it. My dh travels internationally on business all the time. He crosses the border by car, he flies in. Last week he flew into a city in India that had just been bombed by terrorists then flew back through Chicago, then Toronto, going through customs in both. He travels with a laptop and a blackberry. Neither customs nor security has ever asked to examine either. He will take both to Disney as well because he can't really be absent from business the entire time we're there. Whenever we've crossed, we're specific about where we're going (ie:"we're going to Disney", "we're going to the xxxx tour at Joe Louis Arena", etc), and we always have our tickets out and ready to show them, and they could care less, even when I've travelled with my kids without dh. We've always gotten, "How long will you be away? Anything to declare? Have a great time." Honestly, if they don't care when my dh goes to China or India or Russia, I doubt they're going to care when you go to Disney.

 

[Tower]

IF you have a real concern about the delay caused by this, go across a day early, do some cross-border shopping that you keep in your trunk and spend the night in Buffalo.

We did that last December on our way to a family cruise. Albeit it was not for security, but weather that was threatening our flight.

They did not hold us back, but we had that flexibility available then if they did.

 

[maryrego]

In my job I deal with US Customs everyday.
Every officer and every port of entry is different but there all there for the same goal.

Its important to remember anyone coming into Canada is subject to the same searches by Canada Customs.

Its also important to realise there doing this for everyones benefit and just be cause they can doesnt mean there going to. Unfortunatly we dont live in a world where we can trust every single person.

While it might seem weird to ask questions like how come you going to WDW without the kids. (I was asked once if my work knew I was on vacation) The not always asking to get an answer they are looking for reactions. They do ask many more questions then ever before and quite often one or two them throw you off but as long as your honest and truthful theres nothing to worry about.

 

[cdnmickeylover]

While it might seem weird to ask questions like how come you going to WDW without the kids. (I was asked once if my work knew I was on vacation) The not always asking to get an answer they are looking for reactions. They do ask many more questions then ever before and quite often one or two them throw you off but as long as your honest and truthful theres nothing to worry about.

For us it was more than weird as the US customs official was getting downright rude. I'm not sure what he was looking for. The border was empty when we arrived as it was late and he was the only one open. He asked for our citizenship and we answered Canadian and handed him our passports -- he then almost threw them back at us telling us that he hadn't asked for them. He asked where we were going and we said WDW. He then asked us to open the door of our van which we did and he looked in and said but you don't have any kids. Our reply - nope, no kids that are going with us. He then asked where we were staying -- "Pop Century" -- his reply "no I asked you where you were staying" again "Pop Century - it's a hotel at WDW". It just went on and on and on. He asked where we worked, did they expect us back, was I sure that I worked there, what was the name of the place and when it was given was asked "what the heck is that". And then he asked us for our ID while accusing us of not providing it earlier. It was awful. We actually have friends that work for US customs and they told us that this was not normal and his rudeness was uncalled for. It's only happened once though and hopefully it will never happen again.

If it had been anywhere else other than a US customs agent at the border we'd have been asking for a supervisor because his behaviour was rude and uncalled for. It was that bad.

I know they have the right to ask questions and that it's the reaction they are looking for but there's no need to be rude about it. I actually get the what do you do for a living and where do you work question a lot.

 

[puppyears]

yikes!!!!!