Landscaping project rant

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

it's interesting. there are def. companies around us that won't give you the time of day if a project is under some arbitrary dollar amount they've set for themselves but it never fails that when the high season for whatever their specialty winds down or if there's a dip in their market that's when you see their flyers coming in snail-mail/email blasts (if you provided when trying to get them originally)/even direct phone calls solicting exactly the smaller jobs they pooh-poohed previously. we've experienced this first hand with a couple of companies that gave the impression they were doing us a favor to even come out and give a bid. arrogantly told us that it was'nt big enough to interest them. weeks or months later we got phone calls saying they suddenly had time available and were wondering if we still wanted the work done. ummmmm no thanks, we found someone to do it. 'well we noticed when we came out that you might want to look at doing...upgrading...replacing...would you be interested in us giving a price on that?'....again 'no thanks, the company that was willing to do the little job you declined also noticed those issues and what we have not already done they will do at a future date'.

I get focusing on the big jobs but not alienating the small 'bread and butter' jobs can be make it or break it for a company. esp. right now-i know of several homeowners who got bids off season in 2024 for large home renovation projects to be done starting in the last couple of months only to have concerns over the economy, increased costs such that they have pulled back and are on hold for the foreseeable future.

Yeah I don't think companies want to alienate too much. But the comment I initially responded to was coming from the perspective that you don't know if a small job/project would lead to a bigger one later on. That is true but it's not the same market as decades ago where that was much more guaranteed or really just how the business was done, many people had that one trusted person or trusted small company and that's just who they worked with. But that's not how the market has been in a long time. Too much competition and most especially too many unknowns with availability of supplies and pricing of that, the pandemic taught everyone that lesson really well.

I really hate the slimy feeling some people can give or the high pressure to take their overpriced quote because you don't know how others are, but those aren't people I'd want to do the job anyhow so I'd rather they not respond to my inquiry lol. We had a particularly poor salesman for gutter guards high balled us the cost then acted like he was making some calls to get permission to get it lower but still overpriced. We left feeling like nope. My husband promptly bought materials himself for gutter guards and installed it himself for about $750 or we could have paid $12K for them to install what is virtually the same thing..that's the sort of thing that you have to contend with as a company because there are a lot more people out there who will just take it upon themselves, if they can, to do it themselves.

What you're talking about is a company or person choosing jobs but then needing work later one which that's standard for even the big companies. A landscape company is going to struggle in times of drought or times of too much rain and more. In my area we get winter which means the landscape companies either go largely dormant or they switch to something else.

But there's being professional as in not vocally snubbing someone and then there's taking a job hoping that same person will call you up some time in the future to give you another but bigger job and that second part was what I was speaking to. Reputation is one thing, but pinning your hopes on people is not as feasible as it once was. And for that matter customers can be equally at fault at times.

One other thing is I actually wish some people would stop using their handyman for the sake of loyalty. My mom had a handyman friend, he was her friend but was a tradesperson by his profession. He had done countless jobs at my moms house from painting the house over the years (from mid-90s until a few years ago) including the interior, to remodeling one of my mom's bathrooms and then during the pandemic he remodeled her kitchen not fully out repainting existing cabinets removing a wooden peninsula and retiling the floor and installing a pre-made island with no electricity or lines run through it...but did the most atrocious job on the kitchen from ruining her sliding glass door where it stopped closing properly to not properly figuring out the floor leveling situation when he removed the old kitchen tile and had the bumper between that and the wood flooring of the kitchen table. Now there's a more than 2 inch spacer that is a trip hazard like none other. He was prone to flaking on jobs, he had painted the wrong color more than once. But even after all the times of me telling my mom to please just go spend the money to get it actually well done she would say no no Rich is my handyman I can't do that He very much was the person who went for the small jobs hoping that people wouldn't complain overly much.

As far as your last statement I think that actually bolsters my comments, how is a company, in an uncertain time (which I mentioned) supposed to rely on that customer to bring them those big jobs when the customer themselves lives in an uncertain time. It goes both ways that you can't rely on just the large projects not normally unless you're working for a builder or a city nor can you rely on the small jobs. But at the end of the day the point I was saying is you can't rely on that customer to bring you those big jobs just because you did a smaller job for them. It doesn't mean you say no to the small job, it means you don't expect that to lead to a big one. Customers are fickle, the economy is fickle.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I get your position on this-i'm the same. I was also strongly warned by my homeowner's insurance agent when we bought our current home to be very cautious and make sure anyone working on any aspect of our home is licensed and insured to minimize risk of liability on our part. scares me when I see neighbors using obviously non licensed/uninsured people to do stuff like clean 3rd story exterior windows or do roof snow removal-one slip off the ladder is all it takes

When you're building a house, well by that I mean paying the builder to build it, it can be astounding what you see.

When our house was being built there were sawblades just chilling in the gravel of what would become the driveway, stairs left without railings, etc But it wasn't ours until closing so not our liability. The homes I've seen elsewhere like the 3 that were built across the street would stress me out during the framing and roofing parts for how willy nilly the workers were, the roofers never had tie offs and on the roof replacements I've seen it's about 50/50 on roof tie offs. I have no doubt the builders are using licensed workers and that they carry the liability should someone get hurt but I wouldn't assume that means they aren't taking risks. Anytime my husband has been on our roof he's used a fall protection system we bought plus heavy duty gloves, a hard hat depending on the situation.

I agree though if you're paying someone to do work that is risky or work that you have looked needs licensing you best be ensuring they have that along with insurance on work related incidents.

 

[tvguy]

I don't think you will find anyone licensed and insured that is willing to do a job that tiny at a price you are willing to pay.

Your options are going to be:
1. Do it yourself
2. Hire a handyman who is not licensed and/or insured
3. Pay the small job premium

I may end up having to do it myself, over my wife's objections. The thing that interests me is in California, if a project total is more than $1,000 labor and materials, it HAS to be done by a licensed contractor. I figure this is about a $2,500 project, so anyone agreeing to do it that is not a licensed contractor is breaking the law.

 

[tvguy]

I've seen a good amount of small businesses related to handyman, odds and ends go out of business because they just can't survive off of them, it works when they have a main supply of income and the handyman/odds and ends is their small part-time job. I don't like that the non-response or non-committal of contractors in general but I can understand why it's harder for them to want to do the small jobs. It is not like it might have been decades ago where you did stick with a trusted person for all your go-to needs and they in turn stuck with you knowing you'd give them the business.

Browsed Facebook and Nextdoor groups this morning. I am seeing some of these Handymen posting that they are currently booked months in advance. There is one who is highly rated in my community .....a woman.....she says she is booked thru the end of the year! I guess the economy isn't as bad as some people think.

 

[auntfrannie]

Have you thought about talking to someone at Home Depot or Lowe's? They might know some of the contractors that come in for supplies that might be interested. I know when I was looking for someone to paint the interior of my house I got recommendations from Sherwin Williams...they had a bunch of business cards and they suggested a few that would be good.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Browsed Facebook and Nextdoor groups this morning. I am seeing some of these Handymen posting that they are currently booked months in advance. There is one who is highly rated in my community .....a woman.....she says she is booked thru the end of the year! I guess the economy isn't as bad as some people think.

Er yes the economy is as bad as people think. Bad being relative. here not a statement of doom and gloom stuff. The economy is fickle, supplies can cost drastically more in a short notice or be unavailable due to circumstances beyond ones control such as factories destroyed, tariffs or bankruptcy of key companies that manufacture certain goods necessary for projects all of which have been happening. You do realize that these all factor into a project deadline right? Minor projects can take much longer than under ideal conditions. And for all you know those people posting are taking the higher paid jobs

 

[barkley]

Browsed Facebook and Nextdoor groups this morning. I am seeing some of these Handymen posting that they are currently booked months in advance. There is one who is highly rated in my community .....a woman.....she says she is booked thru the end of the year! I guess the economy isn't as bad as some people think.

not surprising-even in the times of bad economy most spring/summer jobs are booked prior to the end of the prior year. I don't know if it's impacting your area at this point but I would'nt be surprised if some of the 'handyman' types are'nt opting for some busy/big bucks sub contracting down in the fire areas. a couple of years ago when we had a job done here and the crew found out we were from northern california they shared how after the big fires there they spent months and months away from their families b/c the insurance companies could'nt hire enough in-state labor so they were hiring and paying crazy higher levels of pay in addition to per diems that workers pocketed while in shared housing at a fraction of the cost. they made as much in weeks as they could over the course of a year. I have to imagine southern california is an earnings buffett for skilled laborers.

 

[longboard55]

Ask a gardener, why the need for a licensed contractor

 

[tvguy]

Er yes the economy is as bad as people think. Bad being relative. here not a statement of doom and gloom stuff. The economy is fickle, supplies can cost drastically more in a short notice or be unavailable due to circumstances beyond ones control such as factories destroyed, tariffs or bankruptcy of key companies that manufacture certain goods necessary for projects all of which have been happening. You do realize that these all factor into a project deadline right? Minor projects can take much longer than under ideal conditions. And for all you know those people posting are taking the higher paid jobs

Well, high end home projects may not be the best gauge of the economy. The advertisers that kept the station I was working at in 2008 afloat were all big dollar home items. HVAC replacement, Walk in bathtubs, etc. People looking and able to drop $20,000 cash on something really weren't impacted. One of the HVAC company owners told me recessions were always his busiest time. He had seen a few as he had been in business 50 years.

 

[tvguy]

Ask a gardener, why the need for a licensed contractor

Insurance. And because the law requires it.

 

[barkley]

call a local realtor? they tend to have a couple of names in their back pocket to do smaller jobs. I know it's old school to have an actual local brick and mortar insurance agent (though I still do ) but i've found them to be a good resource as well.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Well, high end home projects may not be the best gauge of the economy. The advertisers that kept the station I was working at in 2008 afloat were all big dollar home items. HVAC replacement, Walk in bathtubs, etc. People looking and able to drop $20,000 cash on something really weren't impacted. One of the HVAC company owners told me recessions were always his busiest time. He had seen a few as he had been in business 50 years.

I didn't say they were I was sarcastically saying a reason the people may be booked months out is because they are taking the big projects (that was an added but minor part to my comment) but that may actually be the case, it's but one possibility. But your comment was sarcastically saying that the economy must not be bad because people were booked out for months overlooking there can be a multitude of reasons for that.

 

[barkley]

Well, high end home projects may not be the best gauge of the economy. The advertisers that kept the station I was working at in 2008 afloat were all big dollar home items. HVAC replacement, Walk in bathtubs, etc. People looking and able to drop $20,000 cash on something really weren't impacted. One of the HVAC company owners told me recessions were always his busiest time. He had seen a few as he had been in business 50 years.

I dunno. I 'dropped' close to 40K on 2 different projects last year (hvac and whole house generator upgrade/replacement) I was 'able' because I budget and save for ongoing and long-term home maintainance and repair, a budget that is impacted by current economic down turns just like everyone else's budget.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I may end up having to do it myself, over my wife's objections. The thing that interests me is in California, if a project total is more than $1,000 labor and materials, it HAS to be done by a licensed contractor. I figure this is about a $2,500 project, so anyone agreeing to do it that is not a licensed contractor is breaking the law.

FWIW you should check if you need a permit. In my city a permit is required because of the backflow preventer. That is why we had to get a plumber to do the final part of our sprinkler system; that plumber got the permit as in he physically went down to city hall and got it then came back and completed the work. We could do the bulk of the work ourselves but not the hooking it up to the water supply. It was actually only a few years ago that they dropped the requirement for the backflow preventer to be inspected every time you restarted it for the season though it was usually less costly to have the city just charge you for it. You still have to get a permit but residential homes don't have to do the inspections yearly (commercial properties still do).

If I understand the rules with CA correctly if a project requires a permit the dollar threshold doesn't matter and work requires the licensed contractor. If that means you could still do what we did where we did the bulk of the work and left the water line connection to the plumber I'm not sure but you should review that.

 

[mistysue]

I started trying to get someone to build me a small patio in 2016.
Last Fall someone returned my call and did a quote for the FIRST TIME. It took 9 summers. It was done within 2 weeks. But I get your frustration totally. I had multiple people drop by over the years and then never call back or provide the actual quote.

 

[tvguy]

I didn't say they were I was sarcastically saying a reason the people may be booked months out is because they are taking the big projects (that was an added but minor part to my comment) but that may actually be the case, it's but one possibility. But your comment was sarcastically saying that the economy must not be bad because people were booked out for months overlooking there can be a multitude of reasons for that.

Full disclosure. My comment on the economy not being bad was not sarcastic. And I am shocked by that.

 

[longboard55]

A little OT but speaking of DEI, the problem was we needed it desperately and it has worked better than expected, But now we should take that same resolve and do something for the non college males who seem to not have a place in the workplace. Learning a trade can be a great career. Easily leading to self employment where you can make loads of money.


The real issue is we destroyed labor unions that were used to protect trained workers and the industry was taken over by the untrained labor force. We need to fix that so if a 20 year old wants to be an electrician or a carpenter he knows his job will be protected.

 

[kdonnel]

I may end up having to do it myself, over my wife's objections. The thing that interests me is in California, if a project total is more than $1,000 labor and materials, it HAS to be done by a licensed contractor. I figure this is about a $2,500 project, so anyone agreeing to do it that is not a licensed contractor is breaking the law.

We would ALL be in jail if we were prosecuted for every crime we commit.

It is estimated that we commit 3 felonies a day. And that’s the law abiding people.

https://athlonoutdoors.com/article/how-many-felonies-does-the-average-person-commit-in-a-day/

How bad would a contractor have had to piss someone off that they get the law called on them, and the law cares, for putting in some irrigation?

 

[tvguy]

We would ALL be in jail if we were prosecuted for every crime we commit.

It is estimated that we commit 3 felonies a day. And that’s the law abiding people.

https://athlonoutdoors.com/article/how-many-felonies-does-the-average-person-commit-in-a-day/

How bad would a contractor have had to piss someone off that they get the law called on them, and the law cares, for putting in some irrigation?

Best I can recall I have had 9 projects that I got a permit for, NOT counting the permits to build the house (house was 4 years old when we bought it 42 years ago). Every one of the permitted projects revealed conditions of previous permitted projects that never should have passed inspection. So not sure, other than revenue for the county, the point of permits and inspections. Last roof I put on, the inspector showed up WITHOUT a ladder. I guess now they can use drones, but he didn't have that either. I had to let him use my ladder to get on the roof to inspect it.

 

[barkley]

How bad would a contractor have had to piss someone off that they get the law called on them, and the law cares, for putting in some irrigation?

we had an issue with a former neighbor who was hateful and had way too much time on her hands so she would call in and report any kind of construction-landscaping, irrigation, concrete, electric... knew how to raise enough of a stink they would send out an inspector just to eyeball (even if no permits were required). I swear she had every building and ecological department on speed dial . got to the point that word was out among local contractors about the time-suck it created and they would'nt respond to a call for a bid from any address within a radius of the neighbor's place. allot of complaints and fines against contractors result from adjacent neighboring houses ticked at the homeowners and have nothing to do with the contractors but they get caught in the cross-fire.